Pirates Thoughts

[Shark]

I'd say a far bigger risk is that in this immediate gratification society we live in - Other coaches will negative recruit MU/Wojo and say - "Look, you go to Marquette, you are going to ride the pine behind largely ineffective veterans."

A player can do everything they can, try to the best of their ability - but if they aren't getting it done on the floor, they don't deserve to be on the floor - at least not 35 minutes per game.

When the bench guys are Top 40-60 recruits, and they can get much of any time (or get yanked in and out with a few missed shots) that doesn't bode well to recruit/attract new kids into the program.

I don't think MU will have problems recruiting kids. If a kid is gonna make his decision on how the team was run when Wojo had 8 guys he didn't recruit on the roster, so be it. This year is gonna be rough...let's not exaggerate the impact because we are sad.

[NersEllenson]

I don't think MU will have problems recruiting kids. If a kid is gonna make his decision on how the team was run when Wojo had 8 guys he didn't recruit on the roster, so be it. This year is gonna be rough...let's not exaggerate the impact because we are sad.

Good point. 

[chapman]

After the last three games, I'm just fine with a Jim Burr sighting at the BC on Saturday to lay down the law.  The officiating has gotten so bad he's soared up the chart of not total incompetence.

If you're going to "play for next year" anywhere, Sandy has earned his early year starting gig back - give him the run.  JJ...let's hope for a miracle turnaround.  That was ugly.

Hope we can get a freshman class like SHU that sets the tone for several years.  With three to fill and very likely more, Wojo can probably do more damage on the recruiting trail than scrapping together much else out of this team.

[Lennys Tap]

7.  I'm torn between thinking that Wojo might as well give JJJ extended run when everything else is going wrong and not wanting to reward lousy play.   But everyone was lousy for awhile, so I can see both sides.

You cannot give a guy who's playing that poorly an extended run unless you've totally given up. Even then I'm not sure I see the point.

[79Warrior]

JJJ hasn't improved one bit in a season and a half.  Why would an extended run be any different?  Sandy shows how you can earn time by playing better.

EXACTLY. Wishful thinking by some folks who thinks he is good. Buzz sat him and Wojo doing the same. He stunk the few minutes he played tonight.

[We R Final Four]

A six man rotation for SHU tonight...

No fatigue? Can't be---we play 8 and fatigue sets in seems like every game.

[PGsHeroes32]

I'm not entirely against this notion. My concern is what message that might send to future recruits. They could think "well, Wojo will be playing the young guys if MU isn't winning (for whatever reason) when i'm an upperclassmen, if i'm doing everything i can correctly. so, why should i go there?"

What are the long-term ramifications of that philosophy?

Again, not a bad counter argument at all.

I just don't think recruits will think like that though. I feel there is a far better chance that they see a coach willing to give minutes to an underclassmen. And even if they do by chance see seniors losing minutes, hopefully they will have confidence in themselves that they will be putting up big time numbers as a senior and/or the team is really exceeding so the emphasis wont be on the future.

Good point, I just don't think 17 year old kids operate with that thought.

[NersEllenson]

You cannot give a guy who's playing that poorly an extended run unless you've totally given up. Even then I'm not sure I see the point.

Lenny - Not trying to be a dick here - but could you not have said the same about Derrick last season? He was AWFUL last year.

Furthermore, JJJ is a sophomore - and as mentioned many times - he's very comparable to where Vander Blue was as a sophomore.  Both were similar rated recruits.  Similar body types.  Similar athleticism. Similar struggles.

Can Wojo afford to lose ANOTHER of his sophomore class??  And one that was thought to be a VERY good prospect coming out of high school by the scouts and Buzz?

[Da 'Lanche]

The same could be said about Vander Blue at this point in his sophomore year - although he was slightly better as a sophomore than freshman (when he was really bad.)

JJJ is a headcase on the floor at this point - and I believe Wojo should shoulder a good chunk of that burden.  You can't play mind games with players, and have short hooks, leashes, and yank them in and out, bench them for a game, etc., and expect the player to give you any kind of solid performance.  JJJ is as tight as can be out there - and with good reason.  Virtually ever player on this team, perhaps other than Carlino, has had multiple brutal games/stretches this season.

All these kids have the athletic ability…what differentiates performance is the mental aspect of the game.    The coaches spend endless hours with these kids in practices and in life in general….I trust they know what makes them tick…or not…and what motivates…or not…and what unlocks better performance…or not….to suggest wojo is "playing mind games" in some sort of unjust, oppressive nature by singling out JJJ is really ill-informed….nobody on this board has ANY idea what happens every day in practices, in closed meetings, in discussions between coaches and players and between coaches and coaches.    We see a small sample size on the game days and make our opinions and observations…which is fun and generally healthy as we are all fans…but seeking to be a champion of the oppressed by making your own fiction become fact seems dangerous.

If Wojo is clear with JJJ on expectations and is consistent with his individual approach in his relationship with him…how is that mind games?   I played sports my whole life….i get the notion that a short leash affects performance…but maybe that short leash is deserved based upon more than sample size of minutes in games….we have no clue….why would wojo single out JJJ and treat him significantly different than the other 7 active players (see Cohen who keeps earning more minutes)?  

Wojo is in a learning curve as a head coach as well..but, he has a pretty deep and insightful staff…surely they would educate him on his errant ways, no?

I really have been excited about JJJ as he has shown flashes…but, if he ends up transferring because he is in conflict with the new regime's culture, expectations and style…so be it…and I wish him all the best, sincerely, as he seems like an absolutely great young man and perhaps his potential can be fulfilled (either here or somewhere else).

[MUfan12]

Can Wojo afford to lose ANOTHER of his sophomore class??  And one that was thought to be a VERY good prospect coming out of high school by the scouts and Buzz?

Buzz's track record of recruiting and developing HS talent probably won't help your case.

[Da 'Lanche]

Often highly ranked kids in high school do not turn out to be great D-1 basketball players….we have had frequent examples through our program the last few years alone….that is not necessarily on coaching….

[NersEllenson]

All these kids have the athletic ability…what differentiates performance is the mental aspect of the game.    The coaches spend endless hours with these kids in practices and in life in general….I trust they know what makes them tick…or not…and what motivates…or not…and what unlocks better performance…or not….to suggest wojo is "playing mind games" in some sort of unjust, oppressive nature by singling out JJJ is really ill-informed….nobody on this board has ANY idea what happens every day in practices, in closed meetings, in discussions between coaches and players and between coaches and coaches.    We see a small sample size on the game days and make our opinions and observations…which is fun and generally healthy as we are all fans…but seeking to be a champion of the oppressed by making your own fiction become fact seems dangerous.

If Wojo is clear with JJJ on expectations and is consistent with his individual approach in his relationship with him…how is that mind games?   I played sports my whole life….i get the notion that a short leash affects performance…but maybe that short leash is deserved based upon more than sample size of minutes in games….we have no clue….why would wojo single out JJJ and treat him significantly different than the other 7 active players (see Cohen who keeps earning more minutes)?  

Wojo is in a learning curve as a head coach as well..but, he has a pretty deep and insightful staff…surely they would educate him on his errant ways, no?

I really have been excited about JJJ as he has shown flashes…but, if he ends up transferring because he is in conflict with the new regime's culture, expectations and style…so be it…and I wish him all the best, sincerely, as he seems like an absolutely great young man and perhaps his potential can be fulfilled (either here or somewhere else).

Nice post.  In my view, from what I can see when watching games - JJJ's hook is quicker than than the other players.  JJJ's margin for error in games is smaller.  Virtually every guy on our team has had awful stretches/games/back to back to back bad games - yet they are still seeing 30+ minutes per night.  Take your pick out of Duane, Derrick, Juan.

Sandy has been pretty efficient in the minutes he's been giving, and he has been shooting the ball very well.  He's no doubt a better shooter than JJJ is at this point.  So Sandy comes in games, makes his shots, and by virtue of that continues to get to play.  Fair enough.  However, I'm sure you would agree given that you've played the game - Just because you miss your first two shots in a game, in perhaps a 3 minute stretch of time - doesn't mean you are going to have an awful game.  

So, while I agree with the majority of what you post, I do feel that JJJ's leash has been shorter than any of the guys left on the team - and I believe that short leash is partly to blame with the poor performance we've been seeing of late.

[NersEllenson]

Buzz's track record of recruiting and developing HS talent probably won't help your case.

The only Top 40 kid other than JJJ Buzz signed was Vander.  Buzz didn't have a lot of luck with his High School kids ranked 60-100.

Burton will be a star, however.

[Da 'Lanche]

Fair enough.  However, I'm sure you would agree given that you've played the game - Just because you miss your first two shots in a game, in perhaps a 3 minute stretch of time - doesn't mean you are going to have an awful game.  

So, while I agree with the majority of what you post, I do feel that JJJ's leash has been shorter than any of the guys left on the team - and I believe that short leash is partly to blame with the poor performance we've been seeing of late.

I agree with both those both points….I also know the ego can be a fragile thing, especially in high-level athletes

[MUfan12]

The only Top 40 kid other than JJJ Buzz signed was Vander.  Buzz didn't have a lot of luck with his High School kids ranked 60-100.

Burton will be a star, however.

He didn't have luck with many HS recruits, period. Vander had one good year. Cadougan and Davante were good players. His best guys were all JUCOs.

And we'll see about Burton.

[Anti-Dentite]

I'm not entirely against this notion. My concern is what message that might send to future recruits. They could think "well, Wojo will be playing the young guys if MU isn't winning (for whatever reason) when i'm an upperclassmen, if i'm doing everything i can correctly. so, why should i go there?"

What are the long-term ramifications of that philosophy?

They are actually thinking that there is playing time available immediately if I bust my ass and then when I'm an upperclassman, hell, I'm so good they can't bench me.

[NersEllenson]

He didn't have luck with many HS recruits, period. Vander had one good year. Cadougan and Davante were good players. His best guys were all JUCOs.

And we'll see about Burton.

I agree - Buzz's success with high school kids was oddly low, given how many Top 100 kids he brought to MU.  But, the highest rated were Vander and JJJ...and they look an awful lot alike in so many ways at this stage within their careers - as 2nd semester sophomores.

Burton will kill it at Iowa State.  Perhaps JJJ will be joining him there too.    MU is starting a pipeline now of kids transferring out of MU and going on to good career at ISU.  Christopherson.  McKay.  Burton.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Sandy has been pretty efficient in the minutes he's been giving, and he has been shooting the ball very well.  He's no doubt a better shooter than JJJ is at this point.  So Sandy comes in games, makes his shots, and by virtue of that continues to get to play.  Fair enough.  However, I'm sure you would agree given that you've played the game - Just because you miss your first two shots in a game, in perhaps a 3 minute stretch of time - doesn't mean you are going to have an awful game.  

Sandy reminds me of a more aggressive Jimmy his 'freshman' year.  Let the game come to him, and do something well.  In Sandy's case it is more offensive minded -- where Jimmy was defense and rebounding.  There have been times he has been pulled very quickly in games and now times where he can play through some mistakes.  

If I were JJJ I would work on doing something really well.  Unfortunately for him everyone has a base level of athleticism and he has nothing to hang his hat on or that truly differentiates him from what we have seen....especially now that the team seems to be rebounding a little better as a crew.

Hate to say it but I see three players that look to make a jump right now -- and would sacrifice today to bet on the future -- Duane, Luke & Sandy.  Everything we do should be in the name of making them better at this point.  

If someone else wants to join that group -- its time to prove it on the floor without excuses.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny - Not trying to be a dick here - but could you not have said the same about Derrick last season? He was AWFUL last year.

Furthermore, JJJ is a sophomore - and as mentioned many times - he's very comparable to where Vander Blue was as a sophomore.  Both were similar rated recruits.  Similar body types.  Similar athleticism. Similar struggles.

Can Wojo afford to lose ANOTHER of his sophomore class??  And one that was thought to be a VERY good prospect coming out of high school by the scouts and Buzz?

No worries, Ner's. Derrick was not good last year, you're right about that, but the ONLY alternative was a freshman who is now red shirting at Liberty. JJJ is competing with guys (Carlino, Duane and Sandy) for minutes who are playing much better than he is. If you want to include Derrick (they're not really in competition) he's playing way better than JJJ too. Three spots for 5 players and JJJ has EARNED his spot as the fifth option after beginning the season as a starter. He has nobody to blame but himself.

[GooooMarquette]

There was a 3:11 stretch in the second half when JJJ missed a 3, a layup, then another 3.  Some of you talk as though he missed one shot, then got yanked.

[Anti-Dentite]

JJJ has been terrible and doesn't deserve the minutes, but earned or not, he's got to get some extended runs to see what he does with it. It's the only way to know if he's just one of those guys that can't get in a flow with short stints and to see if there's anything to work with going forward. 

[nyg]

There was a 3:11 stretch in the second half when JJJ missed a 3, a layup, then another 3.  Some of you talk as though he missed one shot, then got yanked.

That was in second half when MU was down 24

Everyone referring to first half at 14 minute mark, when he went for weak layup and yanked. He had played maybe 30 seconds.

[jesmu84]

JJJ has been terrible and doesn't deserve the minutes, but earned or not, he's got to get some extended runs to see what he does with it. It's the only way to know if he's just one of those guys that can't get in a flow with short stints and to see if there's anything to work with going forward. 

I don't know because i haven't been paying attention that closely.... but obviously, in the past few games he's been getting short stints. When he was starting earlier in the year, he was getting those extended runs, right?

[NersEllenson]

No worries, Ner's. Derrick was not good last year, you're right about that, but the ONLY alternative was a freshman who is now red shirting at Liberty. JJJ is competing with guys (Carlino, Duane and Sandy) for minutes who are playing much better than he is. If you want to include Derrick (they're not really in competition) he's playing way better than JJJ too. Three spots for 5 players and JJJ has EARNED his spot as the fifth option after beginning the season as a starter. He has nobody to blame but himself.

I'll go to my grave (as you know) saying Dawson would not have been a worse option last season.  I think Buzz could have run Todd at PG too - if he was hell bent on giving Jake 30 minutes a game.

As for JJJ this year, I'm baffled as to what to think.  He begins the season as a starter (as I recall?), has a strong game against ASU...22 points, 4 rebounds, 3 steals in 32 minutes.  Scores 9,19 and 13 in his next 3 games after ASU in 22, 29 and 26 minutes.  Conference play rolls around against DePaul and he drops to 17 minutes - gets 9 points, 4 rebounds.  Then Providence only goes 3-13 from field in 25 minutes but grabs 10 boards, 5 assists and 2 steals.  Minutes since then have been 20, 12, DNP, 12, 15, 7.

Personally, I don't blame the kid for being frustrated.

[Anti-Dentite]

I don't know because i haven't been paying attention that closely.... but obviously, in the past few games he's been getting short stints. When he was starting earlier in the year, he was getting those extended runs, right?

I get what you're saying but I want to see what he does in conference, so should Wojo.