Poll: Wojo versus Mike Deane

[WarriorInNYC]

I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

+1

[Galway Eagle]

This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

I believe Wojo can coach X's and O's, and believe he'll be successful at MU in the way of getting to the NCAA tourney pretty consistently.  I do not think he will exceed what Buzz accomplished.  Nor will he exceed Deane's win/loss record his first 5 years.

It's actually 8 ncaa appearances in 9 years.  06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13. I'll also accept 10/13 years.  

In any case Id say Raymonds but even he had much better players to work with and more balance than Wojo currently does.

[GooooMarquette]

In any case Id say Raymonds but even he had much better players to work with and more balance than Wojo currently does.

Yep.  Not even close.

Hank inherited Lee, Whitehead, Boylan and Toone, Payne and Rosey.  And I believe the team was coming off a fairly successful season and a pretty good decade overall.

[mu-rara]

Based on:

How much fun I had drinking Bud Lights with Deano at Turner's after a win.  Deano is the clear winner.

Long time vision to build a quality program.  Wojo without a doubt.

As much fun as drinking with MD was,  I hope I never drink a beer with Wojo in my life.

[HutchwasClutch]

I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

1. It 8 out 9 NCAAs, not 9 out of 10, small mistake.
2. The more accurate statement is Wojo inherited a team that didn't make the NIT the previous season

3. I have a case study for you. Take a look at the 2014-2015 Florida Gator men's basketball team. Here is a powerhouse of a program. They have 8 top 100 players on their team (Frazier II, Finney-Smith, Murphy, Hill, C Walker, Chiozza, Francis, and Robinson. More than even Marquette has. Not only that, they have 4 players who were ranked higher than Marquette's highest rated player (Finney-Smith, Hill, C Walker, and Robinson).  Two of those four were consensus top 10 players coming out high school (Hill and C Walker). Their coach, Billy Donovan is a man of irreproachable reputation. I mean he's won two national championships. Obviously he can coach. As an added bonus, they have a full roster of players and 6 players taller than Steve Taylor to start the season. So by your assertion that high school rankings matter so much, they must be a final four caliber team. Or at least top 25.

They aren't. They are 10-8, same as us. They don't have a signature bad loss like ours to Omaha, but the loss to Florida State wasn't good. And their best win is over Yale.

The point is, high school rankings mean jack sh*t. It's about what you can do on the court. The rankings are sometimes (quite often) wrong. Sometimes the rankings are right in the moment but for whatever reason, the players don't develop. Some of that is on the coaches, some of it is on the players.

I can give you more examples of teams with several top 100 players on the roster who still ended up performing poorly. It's not a very uncommon phenomenon. Plus, in most of the other cases the team wasn't dealing with the challenges of having literally only 10 scholarship players, having a 6"7 starting center for most of the non-conference, having the parent of one of their star players passing away right before the season, or bringing in a brand new coach.

[keefe]

Based on:

How much fun I had drinking Bud Lights with Deano at Turner's after a win.  Deano is the clear winner.

Long time vision to build a quality program.  Wojo without a doubt.

As much fun as drinking with MD was,  I hope I never drink a beer with Wojo in my life.

Were you there when Dino bit the female attorney in the buttocks?

[bork]

Deane did inherit a team that lost 3 starters, but he also inherited quite a bit of talent and only had 1 NCAA win to show for it.  It won't take much to beat his post season record.  And it's pretty safe to say that the talent in Wojo's 5th year will be light year's ahead of Deane's 5th year.

He inherited:
2 NBA players (Crawford and McCaskill)
2 of MU's top 3 shot blockers (McCaskill and Abraham)
2 of MU's top 4 assist leaders (Miller and Hutchins)
2 of MU's top 12 rebounders (Eford and McCaskill)
3 of MU's top 10 3pt shooters (Pieper, Hutchins, Eford)

[Norm]

I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

So say that Wojo has a rough five years and has a worse record than Deane - are they still stupid?

[Galway Eagle]

So say that Wojo has a rough five years and has a worse record than Deane - are they still stupid?

Yes then they didn't have a positive attitude toward our new coach or any of the highly rated players.

[mu-rara]

Were you there when Dino bit the female attorney in the buttocks?

I missed out on that fun.

[Texas Western]

I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

So I guess that means if you were to vote you would vote for Wojo. Stuff the ballot box.

[Lennys Tap]

1. It 8 out 9 NCAAs, not 9 out of 10, small mistake.
2. The more accurate statement is Wojo inherited a team that didn't make the NIT the previous season

3. I have a case study for you. Take a look at the 2014-2015 Florida Gator men's basketball team. Here is a powerhouse of a program. They have 8 top 100 players on their team (Frazier II, Finney-Smith, Murphy, Hill, C Walker, Chiozza, Francis, and Robinson. More than even Marquette has. Not only that, they have 4 players who were ranked higher than Marquette's highest rated player (Finney-Smith, Hill, C Walker, and Robinson).  Two of those four were consensus top 10 players coming out high school (Hill and C Walker). Their coach, Billy Donovan is a man of irreproachable reputation. I mean he's won two national championships. Obviously he can coach. As an added bonus, they have a full roster of players and 6 players taller than Steve Taylor to start the season. So by your assertion that high school rankings matter so much, they must be a final four caliber team. Or at least top 25.

They aren't. They are 10-8, same as us. They don't have a signature bad loss like ours to Omaha, but the loss to Florida State wasn't good. And their best win is over Yale.

Obviously Billy Donovan needs help allocating minutes. Put Mojo, Tex and Ners in charge of playing time and the Gators are final four bound!

[muwar2003]

After watching us stumble all over against St John's.   I couldn't believe how terrible we were.  St John's offensive boards.  No one on our team following their shots.  Terrible turn overs.  We should have won that game.  I can't believe we only lost by 3.  Fischer has to dunk and use his weight.  JJJ can't shoot.  Anderson gets a lot of shots blocked.  Duane must think he is in highschool and can take a layup or drive over some small players.  I feel sorry for Wojo and hope he is looking to the future.

[MU82]

++ Stupid poll?

-OR-

++ Really stupid poll?

You decide!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

No thanks

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

Chicos? Is that you?

[Lighthouse 84]

I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

I did as well. I voted twice because that's me.  But if the idiotic poll was set to allow only one vote, I'd say of course he'll out perform Deane.  By next year's class alone he'll out perform him.

[NersEllenson]

I did as well. I voted twice because that's me.  But if the idiotic poll was set to allow only one vote, I'd say of course he'll out perform Deane.  By next year's class alone he'll out perform him.

Why?  Top 100 recruits don't matter.  Wake up 84 - do you not read TAMU and other's posts informing you of as much?

[Lighthouse 84]

Why?  Top 100 recruits don't matter.  Wake up 84 - do you not read TAMU and other's posts informing you of as much?

I actually agree with the premise that it isn't a given that every player will be as good of a college player as their high school ranking.  But given the class as a whole Ners, I'm fairly certain it won't be a class of 100% misses.

Maybe the poll should be:  Wojo versus Brunt.  Since Brunt recruited Derrick, it's a no brainer that Wojo wins that one right Ners?

[NersEllenson]

I actually agree with the premise that it isn't a given that every player will be as good of a college player as their high school ranking.  But given the class as a whole Ners, I'm fairly certain it won't be a class of 100% misses.

Maybe the poll should be:  Wojo versus Brunt.  Since Brunt recruited Derrick, it's a no brainer that Wojo wins that one right Ners?

I agree.  Henry should be a lock for a star.  I like Haanif from what I've seen as well.  Think Nick/Heldt won't make an impact till junior year.

I feel Burton will be a star, and wasn't a miss.  Pretty sure Duane won't prove to be a miss.  Nor Luke Fischer.  Nor JJJ.  Nor Cohen.  Buzz also had Marial Shayok - who looks strong.  Ahmed Hill looking promising too.  Let's keep in mind that Wojo had a chance to seal a re-committ from both of those players, yet couldn't get that done - albeit a challenging sell when you aren't their initial coach or recruitment.

[brewcity77]

Think Nick/Heldt won't make an impact till junior year.

Where will that happen? Because clearly they will need to get major minutes from the start if they are ever going to grow to become anything, and if they can't do it here, they'll have to transfer.

[muwarrior69]

++ Stupid poll?

-OR-

++ Really stupid poll?

You decide!

Ding! Ding! Ding! Where is Al in that poll. His first two seasons were horrid. Wojo is starting with a short deck of cards. Yes this season is painful but I still watch the games and cheer the team on. Just like I did when Al was the coach. I am also not expecting much from next years team as well...they are all frosh coming in.

[NersEllenson]

Where will that happen? Because clearly they will need to get major minutes from the start if they are ever going to grow to become anything, and if they can't do it here, they'll have to transfer.

You fail to understand context.  IN Heldt's case, he likely will be apprenticing behind Luke Fischer - a Top 60 recruit himself coming out of high school, who is contributing at a very nice level.  Additionally, I don't see a guy like Heldt being ready to contribute as a freshman - he is the type of player like what Bo Ryan has had success with at Madison.  A multi-skilled big guy, that needs time to add strength, and be ready to play.  Bigs generally aren't as developed as guards.

As for Nick - who knows how that will go down.  But again, context.  If you are on a team of 10-12 scholarship players, your expectations for PT should go down (than being on a team of 8).  Furthermore, if the team is winning and you are sitting, and the guy in front of you is performing - you can stomach that better.

[77ncaachamps]

I think the younguns who never witnessed the dark-glassed one prowl and scowl on the sidelines are skewing this poll.

Deane was a gamer but he made Dukiet look like a high D-1 recruiter.

Wojo is a young coach - Deane actually came from Siena with EIGHT years as HC (and that's not counting his two years at SUNY Oswego) - but he has the cojones to be a great coach.

Deane's first 5 at Siena?
17-12
23-6 NIT 1st
25-5 NCAA 2nd
16-13
25-10 NIT Quarterfinals

Not bad for a much smaller school...