Marquette's Offense

[brewcity77]

Lastly, Top 100 recruits have a MUCH better chance of having success at the college level than those not Top 100 - yet it guarantees nothing.  However, it is beyond reasonable to think that if you have 7 on a team, all 7 are going to be "misses."  Is our coaching staff then not to share some of the blame for not developing the skills many talent evaluators assessed as putting these kids in the Top 100 High School players for their class?

How are they all misses? Carlino has been a consistent double digit scorer. Fischer has been a mostly solid and sometimes spectacular contributor. Cohen and Duane both look like they'll be hits.

At the other end, the jury is out on Jajuan and Deonte, who have shown themselves to be better athletes than basketball players so far, and Juan is a serviceable player but hasn't lived up to top 100 hype.

4 hits, 2 undetermined, 1 miss. The problem isn't 7 top 100 misses, it's youth and depth.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Top 100 rankings mean jack after a players' freshman year. We had plenty of data on all of our returning players to know about what we could expect. And it wasn't pretty. To expect more of that is unreasonable.

I don't think there is much Wojo can do to fix our offense this season. Defenses are doubling Luke and daring us to shoot. Carlino is the only one who can make a three in conference play so our opponent's best defensive guard is glued to him all game. Derrick, JjJ, and Steve don't need to be guarded on the perimeter. Duane and Juan should be guarded on the perimeter in theory but both have been poor shooters lately. This is not a recipe for success.

The only thing I can think of is playing Sandy more. I don't know if his three point shooting is a mirage or not but he's been our best outside of Carlino. Having our two best snipers on the court together more often might open up some more room for Duane, Derrick, JjJ, and Juan to slash.

[GGGG]

The only thing I can think of is playing Sandy more. I don't know if his three point shooting is a mirage or not but he's been our best outside of Carlino. Having our two best snipers on the court together more often might open up some more room for Duane, Derrick, JjJ, and Juan to slash.

They tried that a bit yesterday but I am not sure it helped in the half court.  Sandy has a slow release, so his shooting only really helps when he is way out or if the play breaks down.  IMO Sandy is getting much better on the defensive side of the ball though, and clearly looks like he belongs.

[mattyv1908]

I think the big difference between the last two years offensively is our inability to make 3's in transition.  Let's be honest, most of Buzz's teams weren't the best pure shooting teams.  The difference to me is that in transition there was always somebody prior to last season that could bury the three point shot off the fast break - or- when trailing bringing the ball up.

I think the whole 'paint touches' mantra from Buzz really had more to do with how a defense will collapse/get out of position/slow on rotation when ball pressure is applied allowing open looks.  Now Derrick is no Jerel McNeal at getting penetration but he can get himself into the lane.  The problem comes when there's either nobody spotted up for the open three or the defense doesn't respect the guy open for three.

This board has done a lot of speculation on what last year's team would have done with Vander Blue or Junior Cadougan on the roster instead of Derrick.  To me if you replaced Thomas with Carlino last year's team could've been pretty special IMO.  Nothing against Thomas, but Carlino is ten times the player that Jake was with a similar role.

[NersEllenson]

How are they all misses? Carlino has been a consistent double digit scorer. Fischer has been a mostly solid and sometimes spectacular contributor. Cohen and Duane both look like they'll be hits.

At the other end, the jury is out on Jajuan and Deonte, who have shown themselves to be better athletes than basketball players so far, and Juan is a serviceable player but hasn't lived up to top 100 hype.

4 hits, 2 undetermined, 1 miss. The problem isn't 7 top 100 misses, it's youth and depth.

You help me make my point - To have expectations of a team with this much Top 100 talent, is not unreasonable whatsoever.  To suggest Wojo inherited a tough hand upon taking the job, is simply not true.  Quite frankly, bigger picture, Buzz inherited a MUCH worse foundation - as for what was left once the Big Three were gone - he inherited Lazar, Mo, Cooby - somehow he managed to guide that team to an NCAA berth, a .500 record in the "real Big East," and within a bounce/furious comeback by Washington who subsequently blasted New Mexico St to get to the Sweet 16.

I disagree that Burton showed himself to be a better athlete than basketball player - The problem with that premise is that Burton HAS Elite athleticism.  A rare combination of size, strength and explosiveness - so he's at an elite point with regard to athleticism.  To then contrast that athleticism with basketball performance you would have to be Elite in your production.  He only averaged 12 minutes per game last year, yet conference coaches voted him All Big East Freshman.  Shot a high percentage from everywhere.  Top 5 in the whole country in Steal Percentage.  Top MU player in Block Percentage.  Struggled with some straight up man to man guarding, but had incredible instincts.

Losing Burton was HUGE, and it is foolish that some here have tried to suggest he wasn't much of a loss.

I simply feel many are being way too lenient with regard to their expectations for Wojo.  He had a roster of 11 guys when he took the job, and lots of talent and experience on that roster.  As I posted my concern with Wojo is:  Can he connect with guys/personalities that aren't of the same ilk as him?  A team full of Steve Wojo's is not going to win at a high rate at this level.  Wojo was surrounded with elite talent at Duke, McDonald's All American's, Top 50 recruits - you have to have the elite talent to win big - can't just have a bunch of lunch pail, gritty guys.

[brewcity77]

Again, youth and depth. This team has too much of the former and not enough of the latter. Regardless, it's ridiculous to compare Buzz's second year on the job with Wojo's first. Compare apples to apples. Buzz inherited Marquette's best team since Al while Wojo inherited a thin roster that even Buzz seems to have been afraid to try to win with.

Maybe losing Burton will be a big blow but certainly not this year. He was ineffective for whatever reason and doesn't seem to have bought in. After losing McKay last year and Burton this year, I hope Marquette has learned their lesson regarding handlers.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You help me make my point - To have expectations of a team with this much Top 100 talent, is not unreasonable whatsoever.  To suggest Wojo inherited a tough hand upon taking the job, is simply not true.  Quite frankly, bigger picture, Buzz inherited a MUCH worse foundation - as for what was left once the Big Three were gone - he inherited Lazar, Mo, Cooby - somehow he managed to guide that team to an NCAA berth, a .500 record in the "real Big East," and within a bounce/furious comeback by Washington who subsequently blasted New Mexico St to get to the Sweet 16.

I disagree that Burton showed himself to be a better athlete than basketball player - The problem with that premise is that Burton HAS Elite athleticism.  A rare combination of size, strength and explosiveness - so he's at an elite point with regard to athleticism.  To then contrast that athleticism with basketball performance you would have to be Elite in your production.  He only averaged 12 minutes per game last year, yet conference coaches voted him All Big East Freshman.  Shot a high percentage from everywhere.  Top 5 in the whole country in Steal Percentage.  Top MU player in Block Percentage.  Struggled with some straight up man to man guarding, but had incredible instincts.

Losing Burton was HUGE, and it is foolish that some here have tried to suggest he wasn't much of a loss.

I simply feel many are being way too lenient with regard to their expectations for Wojo.  He had a roster of 11 guys when he took the job, and lots of talent and experience on that roster.  As I posted my concern with Wojo is:  Can he connect with guys/personalities that aren't of the same ilk as him?  A team full of Steve Wojo's is not going to win at a high rate at this level.  Wojo was surrounded with elite talent at Duke, McDonald's All American's, Top 50 recruits - you have to have the elite talent to win big - can't just have a bunch of lunch pail, gritty guys.

Here is what Wojo inherited:

Todd Mayo: A very good player who had a long history of attitude, discipline, and academic issues. Wojo wasn't unable to "work things out with him," Mayo did something colossally stupid this summer and was kicked off the team. Won't go into detail, but it was something that even Buzz would have kicked Mayo off the team for.

Deonte Burton: A very talented, athletic, and undersized forward. Deonte struggled to start the season for multiple reasons. He was playing out of position because the roster demanded it and he was dealing with a terrible loss in his personal life. Deonte has come out since the transfer and has said that he left Marquette because he needed to get away from Milwaukee, too much pain from his mother's passing. It's really hard to put this one on Wojo. 6.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.5 apg, 1.1 spg, .478 FG%, .500 3P%

Derrick Wilson: Probably the most maligned player in Marquette history. I don't need to quote his stats to you, I'm sure you are very familiar. 5.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, .391 FG%, .071 3P% in 13-14

JaJuan Johnson: A highly hyped player who FAILED to live up to any of it. We are talking about a player who couldn't out compete Jake Thomas for minutes. 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, .443 FG%, .290 3P% in 13-14

Juan Anderson: Another highly hyped player who ended up being a role player his first three season. Very solid defensively but awful on offense. 3.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.0 spg, .378 FG%, .192 3P% in 13-14

Steve Taylor Jr: A forward who showed a lot of promise as a freshman but due to injury lost a lot of his ability. He also struggled because he was forced to play the center when he is clearly a power forward. 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg, 03 spg, .324 FG% .154 3P%

John Dawson: A point guard who had one great game last season. Needed to transfer to Big South cellar dweller Liberty to find playing time.  2.0 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.1 spg, .320 FG%, .269 3P%

Sandy Cohen: A wing in the back half of the top 100 coming out of high school. Never played a second of college basketball before.

Duane Wilson: A top 100 point guard who redshirtted during the previous season. Never played a second of college basketball before.

Luke Fischer: Played as a backup center for an Indiana team that didn't make the NIT. Wasn't available to Wojo until December 16. 2.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.8 bpg, .556 FG%, 000  3P%

To summarize: Since Todd Mayo was out of Wojo's control, Wojo inherited 9 players. None of them averaged double digit points the previous season, none of them average more than 3.8 rpg, only one of them was taller than 6-7...and he wasn't available until December 16. Only one of them had shot more than 29% from three...and he only made 4 of them all season. Two of the nine had never played a second of college basketball.

How anyone could say that Wojo inherited a lot, is beyond me.

[jesmu84]

7 TOP 100 PLAYERS!!!!!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here's a better way to think about expectations for this team. Let's look at what their 13-14 stats looked like.

PG: Derrick Wilson: 5.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.5 tpg, .391 FG%, .071 3P%
SG: Matt Carlino: 13.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 2.0 tpg, .385 FG%, .339 3P%
SF: Deonte Burton: 6.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.5 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.9 tpg, .478 FG%, .500 3P%
PF: Juan Anderson: 3.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.0 tpg, .378 FG% .192 3P%
C: Luke Fischer: 2.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.8 bpg, 0.5 tpg, .556 FG%, .000  3P% (not available to December 16)

Bench:
1: Jajuan Johnson: 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, 0.5 tpg, .443 FG%, .290 3P%
2: Steve Taylor: 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg, 0.3 spg, 0.7 tpg, .324 FG%, .154 3P%
3: John Dawson: 2.0 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.1 spg, 0.7 tpg, .320 FG%, .269 3P%
4: Duane Wilson: No Data Available
5: Sandy Cohen: No Data Available

Team Stats:
40.4 points per game
19.7 rebounds per game
12.7 assist per game
437-1086 .402 FG% Matt Carlino by himself had almost as many attempts (426), as FGM by the entire team (437).
88-295 .298 3P% Matt Carlino had 60 of those 88 makes

Really, what about this lineup's production from the previous season screams that they would be a tournament team this season? The improvement that Wojo has gotten out of each of the players is nothing short of amazing. Some simply had too high of expectations going into the season.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Here is what Wojo inherited:

Todd Mayo: A very good player who had a long history of attitude, discipline, and academic issues. Wojo wasn't unable to "work things out with him," Mayo did something colossally stupid this summer and was kicked off the team. Won't go into detail, but it was something that even Buzz would have kicked Mayo off the team for.

Deonte Burton: A very talented, athletic, and undersized forward. Deonte struggled to start the season for multiple reasons. He was playing out of position because the roster demanded it and he was dealing with a terrible loss in his personal life. Deonte has come out since the transfer and has said that he left Marquette because he needed to get away from Milwaukee, too much pain from his mother's passing. It's really hard to put this one on Wojo. 6.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.5 apg, 1.1 spg, .478 FG%, .500 3P%

Derrick Wilson: Probably the most maligned player in Marquette history. I don't need to quote his stats to you, I'm sure you are very familiar. 5.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, .391 FG%, .071 3P% in 13-14

JaJuan Johnson: A highly hyped player who FAILED to live up to any of it. We are talking about a player who couldn't out compete Jake Thomas for minutes. 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, .443 FG%, .290 3P% in 13-14

Juan Anderson: Another highly hyped player who ended up being a role player his first three season. Very solid defensively but awful on offense. 3.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.0 spg, .378 FG%, .192 3P% in 13-14

Steve Taylor Jr: A forward who showed a lot of promise as a freshman but due to injury lost a lot of his ability. He also struggled because he was forced to play the center when he is clearly a power forward. 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.4 apg, 03 spg, .324 FG% .154 3P%

John Dawson: A point guard who had one great game last season. Needed to transfer to Big South cellar dweller Liberty to find playing time.  2.0 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.1 spg, .320 FG%, .269 3P%

Sandy Cohen: A wing in the back half of the top 100 coming out of high school. Never played a second of college basketball before.

Duane Wilson: A top 100 point guard who redshirtted during the previous season. Never played a second of college basketball before.

Luke Fischer: Played as a backup center for an Indiana team that didn't make the NIT. Wasn't available to Wojo until December 16. 2.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.8 bpg, .556 FG%, 000  3P%

To summarize: Since Todd Mayo was out of Wojo's control, Wojo inherited 9 players. None of them averaged double digit points the previous season, none of them average more than 3.8 rpg, only one of them was taller than 6-7...and he wasn't available until December 16. Only one of them had shot more than 29% from three...and he only made 4 of them all season. Two of the nine had never played a second of college basketball.

How anyone could say that Wojo inherited a lot, is beyond me.

nailed it

[brewcity77]

Let's not forget Buzz inherited two young all conference players. He could have done a lot with Scott Christopherson and Trevor Mbakwe had they not departed. If Wojo gets blame for losing two guys that really haven't done much yet in Dawson and Burton, Buzz gets blame for losing two players that had better college careers than anyone Wojo started with.

[tower912]

Great synopsis, TAMU.   HS production means bupkes.   (unless you are Kentucky).   There was very little production at the college level.

[MUDPT]

To get this thread back on topic, I thought Saturday we looked way better in transition then in the half court (obviously).  The "easy" solution would be to play more uptempo, including full court press, but we are limited by bodies.  You can see Wojo is trying all of kinds of different things.  I thought in the second half, Luke was ball-screening a lot more at the top of the key (Duke ran that play very effectively against Wisconsin).  I'm sure it was to open up some driving lanes.  When Luke and Carlino are both out, we really struggle and I think that's where JJJ would help.  Could we post Juan out "wider" (I hesitate saying that on Scoop)? He seems more effective when he can drive. 

[MUfan12]

Could we post Juan out "wider" (I hesitate saying that on Scoop)? He seems more effective when he can drive. 

I like that idea in theory, but Juan would probably ball fake eight times into a travel.

[GGGG]

I like that idea in theory, but Juan would probably ball fake eight times into a travel.

Ha.  It would be so nice if he could hit that little mid-range shot consistently. 

[tower912]

To get this thread back on topic, I thought Saturday we looked way better in transition then in the half court (obviously).  The "easy" solution would be to play more uptempo, including full court press, but we are limited by bodies.  You can see Wojo is trying all of kinds of different things.  I thought in the second half, Luke was ball-screening a lot more at the top of the key (Duke ran that play very effectively against Wisconsin).  I'm sure it was to open up some driving lanes.  When Luke and Carlino are both out, we really struggle and I think that's where JJJ would help.  Could we post Juan out "wider" (I hesitate saying that on Scoop)? He seems more effective when he can drive. 

Yes, MU looked better in transition than in the half court.   When MU's defense generates steals and turnovers, it creates transition opportunities.    The defense didn't turn X over in the second half, ergo, more time in the half court.     In the half court, Juan has to shoot that mid range jumper.   Duane and JJJ (when he is allowed back on the floor) need to add a pull up jumper to their games, a la Vander.   Each and every one of them have to get better at feeding the post.   And it would help if Luke added the 8-10 ft jumper to his game.