Wojo Post Game (Comments on JJJ DNP)

[MUMonster03]

He was nailed to the bench for a lot different reasons last year.

If by nailed to the bench you mean only today, but he has been playing 20 plus. Today's DNP was very perplexing.

[murara1994]

Who is to say playing JJJ would have helped? They handily covered the spread without him.

[Lennys Tap]

Because applying the same standards to different situations is much more effective

A coach has rules and consequences attached to them. The important SITUATION isn't how much depth a team has - it's what the offense is and the automatic consequence (known by all) that is attached to it. Start negotiating what you tell your team is non negotionable and you don't have any standards at all. The program is bigger than one game or one player.

[ChuckyChip]

A coach has rules and consequences attached to them. The important SITUATION isn't how much depth a team has - it's what the offense is and the automatic consequence (known by all) that is attached to it. Start negotiating what you tell your team is non negotionable and you don't have any standards at all. The program is bigger than one game or one player.

+1

Wojo made similar comments after the game today - he talked about if you compromise your standards in this situation, then you start compromising other standards (Buzz Williams anyone?).

I'm sure with only eight players it's easy for guys to fall into a "he's got to play me" mentality.  I'm glad Wojo stuck to his standards.  This isn't about this game, or this season, but about establishing expectations within the program into the future.

[tower912]

Wojo is the boss.   He sets the standards.   He is holding JJJ accountable for not meeting those standards.  A message has been sent to JJJ, to all the current players, and future recruits, that you will meet those standards or you will sit.   What JJJ does now is up to him.     I coach with a guy who finished a game with 4 players on the floor (7th grade) rather than play a kid who had been a bully to the other players and confrontational with the coach one more minute than the bare minimum.    It was the right choice.    The lesson for JJJ today is that actions have consequences.    Hopefully, he learns it.  

[tower912]

http://marquette.scout.com/story/1503125-xavier-63-mu-59-mu-s-18-turnovers-fuel-xavier?s=415

Yeah, it is scout.   But it is the transcript of Wojo's post game interview is there.   The last few questions give Wojo's answer to everyone who questions his reasoning regarding JaJuan. 

[mattyv1908]

http://marquette.scout.com/story/1503125-xavier-63-mu-59-mu-s-18-turnovers-fuel-xavier?s=415

Yeah, it is scout.   But it is the transcript of Wojo's post game interview is there.   The last few questions give Wojo's answer to everyone who questions his reasoning regarding JaJuan. 

Well Tower, all I can say is that based on that line of reasoning he'll be lucky if his tenure lasts long enough to instill the type of culture he's looking for when relating to 18-22 year old entitled college kids who have had everything handed to them because of their ability to play basketball is his primary job description.

[NersEllenson]

If I were to guess what happened:

JJJ was frustrated about his playing time against Creighton - and for getting a pretty quick hook - after a few of his screw ups that game. 

JJJ sees other players on this thin team also struggle, and screw up, yet they seem to get more of a pass to play through their mistakes (Duane Wilson)...

JJJ starts to grow a little disenchanted, comes to practice, and pouts a little - either through not putting in max effort, goofing off, etc.

Wojo sees this, and says:  JJJ meet the bench.

Tough deal for both the player and the coach.  MOST players have a difficult time at the college or high school level going to their head coach and voicing their displeasure with their role, or perhaps things they see as unfair, where one guy gets to play through mistakes while another doesn't.  A player doesn't want to be a "whiner," so instead of confronting the coach, and addressing via a conversation, they resort to less mature tactics - such as goofing off in practice.  The player's way of saying I don't like how things are going right now.

You may recall last season Wainwright had to implore Todd Mayo to go to Buzz and ask/demand for more playing time.  Todd didn't want to do it - had to be coaxed by Wainwright to do so.  It's hard to question the authority figure that ultimately controls the thing you value most as a player on a basketball team - playing time.

[Class71]

Is there any statistical evidence whatsoever that's supports these "lessons" working effectively? JJJ doesn't have an ounce of Fire in his body at all. He's just a goofy guy out there enjoying himself. Much like Jamail jones. I don't think he's the type to all of the sudden start to bring it now that the coach benched him a full game. I think more often than not guys just look elsewhere when their practice habits don't correlate with the coaches expectations.

If the lessons do not work he will not play. Concept is simple. We really do not want players who are not committed to working hard and having commitment to the team. To win you need talent, focus, hard work and being fully committed. Anything less has a negative impact on the entire team. If he looks elsewhere because he can not bring it everyday there is no loss.

[jesmu84]

Conduct yourself (whether practice, game, classroom, etc) in the manner which the coach expects/demands or suffer whatever consequences the coach deems necessary. Pretty simple. I've got zero problem with it. Can't have the inmates running the asylum.

[Dawson Rental]

Is there any statistical evidence whatsoever that's supports these "lessons" working effectively? JJJ doesn't have an ounce of Fire in his body at all. He's just a goofy guy out there enjoying himself. Much like Jamail jones. I don't think he's the type to all of the sudden start to bring it now that the coach benched him a full game. I think more often than not guys just look elsewhere when their practice habits don't correlate with the coaches expectations.

It sounds like you believe that Wojo should lower his expectations to meet what JJJ feels like providing, rather than JJJ adjusting his effort level up to meet Wojo's expectations.  I believe that that would be a recipe for disaster.

[Dawson Rental]

I disagree. Without knowing all the circumstances involved in the benching, you don't know which way the players are siding on the issue. Everything I've seen says that JJJ's teammates love him. College kids aren't quick to ostracize one of their own.

It sounds like you're predicting a team mutiny against Wojo.  Personally, I don't see that happening.

[avid1010]

Because applying the same standards to different situations is much more effective

disagree.  i've worked with really tough kids in my lifetime, and the one thing i find it essential for them to understand is when they go to work, or are out on the streets, no one is going to give a crap if they have anger issues, are extremely sensitive, etc.  most kids also like being held accountable. 

so wojo isn't the kids parent, and jjj is part of a team.  a team has set rules, and when someone breaks the rules, the penalty (if clearly stated prior) absolutely needs to be enforced.  how wojo handles him and the conversation he has with him afterwards is what needs to be different per player.  some kids you can talk to...others just need to learn from natural consequences...

now if wojo didn't say a word to him all week about the way he practiced, and then just benched him for the game, and doesn't have further conversation with him...i'd say he's messing with the kid in a way that he better be sure will motivate the kid rather than wreck him.

that said, we never really know what's going on...could be a simple planned PR response for a different kind of behavior issues as well that wojo wants to keep private.

[Blackhat]

Might as well set the tone for your program expectations this year.   Need bite with your bark sometimes.

[MU Buff]

Why would anyone want Wojo to take it easy on JJJ? He has the worst offensive rating on the team by far, even worse than Derrick and Juan's were last year. He needs to work hard and learn how to play under control and if he doesn't, he shouldn't be playing much.

It's not like JJJ is an all-Big East player who shows up big every game but sometimes takes it easy in practice.

[bamamarquettefan]

Is there any statistical evidence whatsoever that's supports these "lessons" working effectively? JJJ doesn't have an ounce of Fire in his body at all. He's just a goofy guy out there enjoying himself. Much like Jamail jones. I don't think he's the type to all of the sudden start to bring it now that the coach benched him a full game. I think more often than not guys just look elsewhere when their practice habits don't correlate with the coaches expectations.

His magic is the steals. If he is doing that he can be very valuable in any given game. Let's hope he steps up hustle because as bad as the shot has been we have to have that. Looks lime I have to admit brandx was right on jjj's level of play to date.

[Eldon]

Anyone remember in Hoop Dreams when Gates shows up late to practice and the coach benches him for a half in the IL tourney game?

This debate reminds of that situation.  If the coach holds all players to the same standards and, more importantly, sticks to these standards, then it is seen as fair and perhaps motivating to the less-skilled players, gives discipline to the higher-skilled players, and, more generally, it sets expectations, allowing the players and the rest of the coaching staff to act with a degree of certainty.

On the other hand, rigidly holding all players to the same standard may be seen by the more talented players as unfair.  These players may come to resent the coach.  After all, they already are highly-skilled, why should they practice as hard as the Rudys on the team? 

Now suppose that a key game is on the line.  Is the coach really going to have the guts to stick to the plan of punishing a player if that player is the best player on the team?  If the coach sticks to the plan of benching a great player during a key game, the coach could risk losing his job and pissing off a bunch of people, including some players on the team who would rather see a win than a manifestation of equity/fairness.  However, if the coach breaks the plan and the player is allowed to play, then the coach loses whatever benefits come from holding good players to the same standard as the inferior ones.

Tough trade-off.

[Loose Cannon]

I think that's extremely unfair to Juan, Derrick and Matt.  So what's worse, JuJuan detrimentally affecting the other seven or Wojo detrimentally affecting all eight?  IMO making a statement like this goes one of two ways.  It either galvanizes the team or it erodes faith in the leadership of the team.  When your punishment of one individual also punishes the team as a whole, then it's probably not the best decision given that there was no rule violation, academic issue, or outside legal trouble.  This isn't Hoosiers we're watching.

Should we have an arbitrator render a decision!

[DaCoach]

Wojo is the one and only Coach for this team. He makes the decisions and the players follow them. Fans can only assume what happened that benched JJJ. I'd suggest all those people who disagree with Wojo's discipline find another team to follow  until next year so they don't have to agonize over every loss and find a scapegoat.

In the end it wasn't the failure to play JJJ. It was the player's 2nd half of play and their inability to get the ball inside to Luke and the resultant turnovers.

[MU82]

i'm guessing there might be a little more to this story than what we already know. There usually is. But based upon what we do already know, I have no problem -- none, nada, zero -- with Wojo benching JJJ.

And I'm sure Wojo is relieved to hear that.

[brandx]

His magic is the steals. If he is doing that he can be very valuable in any given game. Let's hope he steps up hustle because as bad as the shot has been we have to have that. Looks lime I have to admit brandx was right on jjj's level of play to date.

I was probably just being a jerk at the time. I really did think that jjj was going to be what you thought he was. My argument was just that you based your findings on a small sample size and we really didn't know which way he was going to go..

[Class71]

Anyone remember in Hoop Dreams when Gates shows up late to practice and the coach benches him for a half in the IL tourney game?

This debate reminds of that situation.  If the coach holds all players to the same standards and, more importantly, sticks to these standards, then it is seen as fair and perhaps motivating to the less-skilled players, gives discipline to the higher-skilled players, and, more generally, it sets expectations, allowing the players and the rest of the coaching staff to act with a degree of certainty.

On the other hand, rigidly holding all players to the same standard may be seen by the more talented players as unfair.  These players may come to resent the coach.  After all, they already are highly-skilled, why should they practice as hard as the Rudys on the team? 

Now suppose that a key game is on the line.  Is the coach really going to have the guts to stick to the plan of punishing a player if that player is the best player on the team?  If the coach sticks to the plan of benching a great player during a key game, the coach could risk losing his job and pissing off a bunch of people, including some players on the team who would rather see a win than a manifestation of equity/fairness.  However, if the coach breaks the plan and the player is allowed to play, then the coach loses whatever benefits come from holding good players to the same standard as the inferior ones.

Tough trade-off.

Being a coach is tenuous at best at this level. Taking necessary risks like benching a talented player that is not getting it is unavoidable and necessary. Wojo knows the risk as the second guessers will blame the coach and some will question his judgment. What they don't understand is there are few options to try  and change player behavior. Benching has been proven to work but not in all cases (we had one recent example where it did not work).

Doing nothing will promise failure. Agree, the carrot can also work but that is typically with confidence issues. In this case it would likely reinforce undesirable behavior.

[4everwarriors]

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya, aina? Next cat up.

[tower912]

It is an old adage that you play like you practice.   How has JJJ looked when he has played lately?

[GGGG]

If I were to guess what happened:

JJJ was frustrated about his playing time against Creighton - and for getting a pretty quick hook - after a few of his screw ups that game. 

JJJ sees other players on this thin team also struggle, and screw up, yet they seem to get more of a pass to play through their mistakes (Duane Wilson)...

JJJ starts to grow a little disenchanted, comes to practice, and pouts a little - either through not putting in max effort, goofing off, etc.

Did you ever think that you may have the cause and effect mixed up?  That maybe Duane gets a pass (which I think you are exaggerating anyway) because he has shown a better ability to work through his mistakes and learn from them? 

And if JJJ's reaction is to "pout" like you describe, that is exactly the wrong reaction.  They are adults.  I have told this to my college age kids all the time, I don't want to hear whining, I don't want to hear about life being unfair.  It is.  Deal with it. 

I am sure that yesterday's benching was the culmination of something that has been brewing for awhile.  I doubt his just had a bad practice, or even a week of bad practices.