Problem wasn't height...

[tower912]

Barring injury, Derrick is going to get  25-30 minutes a game.   It's like the weather.   You can't change it.  Relax and accept it.  You can spend another thousand posts railing against it, but it won't matter.   Until JJJ, Deonte, Dawson, get to a level where they seize the minutes from Derrick, he is going out there.   I think Derrick's minutes drop now, with some of them going to Fischer and Wojo running some more traditional sets.   But JJJ and Deonte have not shown enough defensively yet, even in the zone, to take minutes from Derrick.  

[NersEllenson]

1.  No.  What are the other options?
2.  No.  What are the other options?
3.  Just coach speak.  Are you seriously suggesting that Wojo lacks credibility 8 games into his career?
4.  As Canned said, same debate as last year.  I trust that the coaches know what they are doing.  I have seen nothing to suggest that it would be better with other options.
5.  I think Derrick has been fine within the zone.

1.  John Dawson?  He shoots much better from 3, midrange, and FT line than Derrick.

2.  John Dawson?  Same reason above - also go listen to Travis Diener's remarks prior to the season:  John's a guy who can help us.  A great athlete that can knock down shots.  (Remember 2 coaches may see things totally different - recall Wainwright imploring Mayo to go to Buzz for more PT.)  Hell the debates ensue here as to players pluses and minuses - it isn't at all foreign for that to exist on a coaching staff as well - but the Head Coach has final say.

3. I'm suggesting Wojo lacks credibility with regard to his statements on Derrick - much as Buzz did last year.  They are flat out exaggerations and B.S.  I am very please with Wojo, though we had great game plan against WI, he's adapted well, but he is completely wrong with regard to playing Derrick 30 minutes - at least last year with Buzz you could make a case as the only other potential PG on roster was Dawson (who's better as a 2G than point as a freshman as he did have some ball security issues.)  That's not the case on this year's team with Duane and Carlino.

4. Can you imagine what Derrick would show/look like if he got 10 minutes a game?  What kind of production do you think we'd see?  You make judgements on Cohen, JJJ, Dawson last season - on 10 minutes of playing time, and conclude they aren't nearly as good/ready/better option.  Give Derrick 10 a game and let's see what you'd have to say.  (It wouldn't be very pretty.)

5. I don't think Derrick has been bad at all in the zone - but, it mitigates his best asset as a player - on ball, man to man D.  (Which in my view is even more of a reason why we don't need him on the floor 30.)

[GGGG]

1.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
2.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
3.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
4.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
5.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.

And with that, I am going to try REAL hard to no longer engage in Derrick debates with you any longer.  One year of silly theories about Buzz was enough.  So far you look to be going down the same path with Wojo this year.

Not interested.

[rocky_warrior]

RADING this thread is giving me a headache.

[brandx]

3. I'm suggesting Wojo lacks credibility with regard to his statements on Derrick - much as Buzz did last year.  They are flat out exaggerations and B.S.  I am very please with Wojo, though we had great game plan against WI, he's adapted well, but he is completely wrong with regard to playing Derrick 30 minutes - at least last year with Buzz you could make a case as the only other potential PG on roster was Dawson (who's better as a 2G than point as a freshman as he did have some ball security issues.)  That's not the case on this year's team with Duane and Carlino.

Hence, the reason we make fun of your comments.

[NersEllenson]

1.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
2.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
3.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
4.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
5.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.

And with that, I am going to try REAL hard to no longer engage in Derrick debates with you any longer.  One year of silly theories about Buzz was enough.  So far you look to be going down the same path with Wojo this year.

Not interested.

I figured as much.  Hard to dispute the questions I asked.  Though I know you thought I was crazy last year at the beginning of the season when I said we'd have a rough year if Buzz didn't make a change.  And of course, you offered up:  Buzz's teams have always gotten better as the year goes on.  Sadly, last year, of course it didn't.  We missed the NIT.  With more returning experience than ever before on a Buzz team.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My questions:

1) If at the start of this season, Scoop was told, Derrick Wilson would be playing 30+ minutes per game, largely as an off guard/shooting guard - who would have said:  "That's a great solution?"

No one. But my frustration would be aimed at the supposedly better players for not earning the playing time from Derrick. Also, having watched it, its worked better than I expected it would have.

2) Wojo and others have lamented that we frequently drove the paint and forced a tough shot when we should have kicked out for a perimeter look - Does anyone disagree Duane and Carlino were far more the guys going to the hoop?  If so, who are their kick out options?  Most likely Derrick (or the other of Carlino/Duane when they weren't the one's driving)  So, is kicking out to Derrick at the 3point line a good strategy?

I think it is a fine strategy. Wojo and his staff emphasize the extra pass. Drive to the hoop, kick out to Derrick, pass to the other half of Duane/Carlino, easy three pointer. Works in theory, but our slashers weren't even making the kick out pass. I wondered during the game if Wojo was trying to get the trees into foul trouble.

3) When Wojo speaks of Derrick and calls him a "Terrific" player, how many Scoopers agree that, that is an appropriate or accurate description?  I suspect very few - having said that, how do you not call into question Wojo's credibility when such an exaggerated statement is made?

I think terrific can refer to a lot of different things. Derrick is a terrific person, a terrific defender, a terrific caretaker PG, and a terrific leader. He is much less than terrific at a lot of other things. And I know you don't put value on leadership (even though you put value on swagger) but coaches and players do. And no, I don't think this damages Wojo's credibility at all. I know we previously had a coach who liked to put down his own team but most coaches tend to build up their own players.

4) Our "other options" (deemed not as good by some here due to Wojo not playing them much) - If you limited Derrick to 10 minutes per game, what kind of production do you think you would get??  Additionally, with Derrick we have 975 minutes of evidence to know what he brings from last season - the other guys:  Cohen, JJJ, Dawson - are all largely unknowns.  Would it really hurt to explore giving each of them chunks of Derrick's time to see how they can perform in the game situations - as more than likely if you give Derrick 30 minutes, you will get about 5 points, 3 assists, highly ineffective 3 point shooting and FT shooting.

The coaches do explore. Its called practice. They have a pretty good idea of what they would get. If players continued to play the way they have been, I think our defense would suffer significantly. I think we would have committed more fouls (forcing Derrick to play more anyway). I think we would force more turnovers, but we would also turn it over significantly more, negating any advantage gained. I think we would have lost the Georgia Tech game. Other results would have remained the same but Tennessee would have been more of nailbiter.

Now if players start playing up to potential, its a whole different story. Another thing to keep in mind is our team's height (bringing it back to the original topic, booyah!). Juan has been getting 32 minutes per game and Taylor has been getting 29. That leaves 19 minutes a game that need to be covered by Deonte and Cohen. There is no one else who can play those minutes. That limits the amount that they can be replacing Derrick. Not only that, but Wojo has to protect Deonte and Cohen in case there is foul trouble. He can't afford all of his "forwards" getting into early foul trouble. So that probably led to them sitting more than maybe they should have. Now that Luke is here, I bet this changes.

5) Does anyone disagree that us playing zone essentially takes away Derrick's greatest asset?  His on ball, man to man D?

Takes it away? No.  Makes him a more average defender? Yes. But Derrick is never out of position in the zone and his hands are always up. Not something that can be said about some of the others. Fortunately, I think that's an easy fix.

I answered yours. Now answer mine if you would. I only have two.

1) Why is all of your anger and frustration directed at Derrick? He certainly deserves a lot of the blame for our struggles. But he's not the only one. Why not spend at least a little time critiquing the game of Deonte, JjJ, Cohen, Duane, Carlino, Anderson, or Taylor? Everyone of our players has significant issues IMHO. Taylor can't hit bunnies. Carlino shoots us out of games almost as much as he shoots us into them. Duane takes even more ill fated drives than Derrick does and tries Jimmer range threes at times that don't call for them. Anderson seems afraid to shoot from deep even if he's hitting 46% of them. Plenty of critiques to go around but Derrick is the only one you mention. Why?

2) Most people assume that coaches play the players who are playing the best. Being frustrated with Derrick for not being good is understandable, but why no frustration at Dawson, JjJ, Deonte for not being good enough to take minutes from Derrick? You were questioning whether or not Deonte would leave for the NBA after this season. Clearly he hasn't played up to your expectations. Why no frustration?

[mattyv1908]

I'll give you a reason why Derrick Wilson is on the court for 30 minutes a game Ners.

Matt Carlino and Duane Wilson have looked terrible with any sort of pressure bringing the ball up and neither one is a true point guard being fairly average ball handlers in the half court.

Derrick Wilson IMO (and knowing his shortcomings which I have defended you on many occasions), is the only really sure handed dribbler on this team and thus needs to be playing.

Unfortunately this team doesn't have an Arcidiacono style point guard on it's roster either this season or last season, because that's what you really want isn't it Ners?  You want a traditional pass first, shoot next, create off the dribble excellent ball handling point guard.  Guess what?  This team doesn't have that player on it Ners no matter how much you wish otherwise or how much you hope a different player on this roster could become that guy.  We don't have that kid on this team.

This team is what it is in regards to it's make up Ners.  Accept reality for what it is or stop watching for your own sanity until Marquette has the type of point guard you feel it should have.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

2.  John Dawson?  Same reason above - also go listen to Travis Diener's remarks prior to the season:  John's a guy who can help us.  A great athlete that can knock down shots.  (Remember 2 coaches may see things totally different - recall Wainwright imploring Mayo to go to Buzz for more PT.)  Hell the debates ensue here as to players pluses and minuses - it isn't at all foreign for that to exist on a coaching staff as well - but the Head Coach has final say.

So when Wojo calls Derrick terrific its BS that makes him lose all credibility. But when Diener calls Dawson "a guy who can help us" its proof that Dawson should be playing over Derrick?

[WarriorInNYC]

My questions:

1) If at the start of this season, Scoop was told, Derrick Wilson would be playing 30+ minutes per game, largely as an off guard/shooting guard - who would have said:  "That's a great solution?"

2) Wojo and others have lamented that we frequently drove the paint and forced a tough shot when we should have kicked out for a perimeter look - Does anyone disagree Duane and Carlino were far more the guys going to the hoop?  If so, who are their kick out options?  Most likely Derrick (or the other of Carlino/Duane when they weren't the one's driving)  So, is kicking out to Derrick at the 3point line a good strategy?

3) When Wojo speaks of Derrick and calls him a "Terrific" player, how many Scoopers agree that, that is an appropriate or accurate description?  I suspect very few - having said that, how do you not call into question Wojo's credibility when such an exaggerated statement is made?

4) Our "other options" (deemed not as good by some here due to Wojo not playing them much) - If you limited Derrick to 10 minutes per game, what kind of production do you think you would get??  Additionally, with Derrick we have 975 minutes of evidence to know what he brings from last season - the other guys:  Cohen, JJJ, Dawson - are all largely unknowns.  Would it really hurt to explore giving each of them chunks of Derrick's time to see how they can perform in the game situations - as more than likely if you give Derrick 30 minutes, you will get about 5 points, 3 assists, highly ineffective 3 point shooting and FT shooting.

5) Does anyone disagree that us playing zone essentially takes away Derrick's greatest asset?  His on ball, man to man D?

I'll hang up and listen.

2)  I may be wrong on this, but I feel like Derrick was driving the lane more than Carlino was during the Badger game.  I'm not a Derrick-basher, but I definitely agree that driving and kicking to Derrick would not make any sense.

3)  I would not question any coaches credibility by calling any player a "terrific player".  I don't know what else you would want/expect Wojo to say. 

[79Warrior]

1.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
2.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
3.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
4.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
5.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.

And with that, I am going to try REAL hard to no longer engage in Derrick debates with you any longer.  One year of silly theories about Buzz was enough.  So far you look to be going down the same path with Wojo this year.

Not interested.

Exactly. Ignore the guy on this topic.

[willie warrior]

1.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
2.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
3.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
4.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
5.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.

And with that, I am going to try REAL hard to no longer engage in Derrick debates with you any longer.  One year of silly theories about Buzz was enough.  So far you look to be going down the same path with Wojo this year.

Not interested.

Amazing Sultan--and you are going down the same path with Derrick.
1. 17-15 with that PG. Mediocrity for the Sultan.
2. 17-15 with that PG. Mediocrity for the Sultan.
3. 17-15 with that PG. Mediocrity for the Sultan.
4. 17-15 with that PG. Mediocrity for the Sultan.
5. 17-15 with that PG. Mediocrity for the Sultan.
And with that, I too will not get involved with any thing more related to Derrick--until year's end, when I can eat crow or tell the Sultan I told you so. Wonder what it will be.

[NersEllenson]

I answered yours. Now answer mine if you would. I only have two.

1) Why is all of your anger and frustration directed at Derrick? He certainly deserves a lot of the blame for our struggles. But he's not the only one. Why not spend at least a little time critiquing the game of Deonte, JjJ, Cohen, Duane, Carlino, Anderson, or Taylor? Everyone of our players has significant issues IMHO. Taylor can't hit bunnies. Carlino shoots us out of games almost as much as he shoots us into them. Duane takes even more ill fated drives than Derrick does and tries Jimmer range threes at times that don't call for them. Anderson seems afraid to shoot from deep even if he's hitting 46% of them. Plenty of critiques to go around but Derrick is the only one you mention. Why?

2) Most people assume that coaches play the players who are playing the best. Being frustrated with Derrick for not being good is understandable, but why no frustration at Dawson, JjJ, Deonte for not being good enough to take minutes from Derrick? You were questioning whether or not Deonte would leave for the NBA after this season. Clearly he hasn't played up to your expectations. Why no frustration?

1) Right now we have no other options than Juan and Steve.  I've generally been pleased with Juan.  Steve?  Was hoping to see more out of him, and feel his minutes will get slashed with Luke coming into the fold.

We have such a limited sample size of game performance from JJJ, Cohen, Dawson - It's hard to be highly critical, as there isn't a lot of data.  With Derrick - there is a ton of data.  And it isn't good.  Plus he's a 4th year senior - he should be at minimum a very solid player by this time.  He's not the future, or part of the solution in the future, and in my view, he isn't good enough in the present to help us win games (other than an occasional outlier of a performance.)

With regard to Duane:  I'd much rather him take "ill fated drives and Jimmer range threes" than I'd rather see Derrick do the same.  Not to mention shooting free throws.  As I've said before - generally a guard who is a good FT shooter, is going to be a good perimeter shooter.  If you can't make FTs as a guard, you are really going to struggle to make 3's.  Also, with Duane, I've seen him GO LEFT AND FINISH WITH HIS LEFT AS A RED SHIRT FRESHMAN - Derrick?  He's only shown he can go to his right.  By now, you should be able to go to your off hand/side and finish as a senior in a high major program.

2) I felt Burton had/has a chance to consider going pro after his Junior season - I definitely expected more from him than what we've seen thus far this year.  Yet, given the passing of his Mom, along with Wojo only giving him limited playing time - again - it is hard to draw a formal conclusion as to what his true potential is/will be.

**As for the young guys not being "good enough" to take Derrick's minutes - I simply don't buy it.  What I do buy/subscribe to, is that there are certain types of players that coaches absolutely love - their whole make up - and Derrick fits that mold to a T.  High character, very hard working, likable kid, good defender, good leader.  Unfortunately, those traits don't necessarily offset a lack of overall talent - yet coaches can and do frequently get caught up in them and it can skew their judgement.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

1) Right now we have no other options than Juan and Steve.  I've generally been pleased with Juan.  Steve?  Was hoping to see more out of him, and feel his minutes will get slashed with Luke coming into the fold.

We have such a limited sample size of game performance from JJJ, Cohen, Dawson - It's hard to be highly critical, as there isn't a lot of data.  With Derrick - there is a ton of data.  And it isn't good.  Plus he's a 4th year senior - he should be at minimum a very solid player by this time.  He's not the future, or part of the solution in the future, and in my view, he isn't good enough in the present to help us win games (other than an occasional outlier of a performance.)

With regard to Duane:  I'd much rather him take "ill fated drives and Jimmer range threes" than I'd rather see Derrick do the same.  Not to mention shooting free throws.  As I've said before - generally a guard who is a good FT shooter, is going to be a good perimeter shooter.  If you can't make FTs as a guard, you are really going to struggle to make 3's.  Also, with Duane, I've seen him GO LEFT AND FINISH WITH HIS LEFT AS A RED SHIRT FRESHMAN - Derrick?  He's only shown he can go to his right.  By now, you should be able to go to your off hand/side and finish as a senior in a high major program.

2) I felt Burton had/has a chance to consider going pro after his Junior season - I definitely expected more from him than what we've seen thus far this year.  Yet, given the passing of his Mom, along with Wojo only giving him limited playing time - again - it is hard to draw a formal conclusion as to what his true potential is/will be.

**As for the young guys not being "good enough" to take Derrick's minutes - I simply don't buy it.  What I do buy/subscribe to, is that there are certain types of players that coaches absolutely love - their whole make up - and Derrick fits that mold to a T.  High character, very hard working, likable kid, good defender, good leader.  Unfortunately, those traits don't necessarily offset a lack of overall talent - yet coaches can and do frequently get caught up in them and it can skew their judgement.  

I personally don't think age matters. If player 1 is a senior and a B level player and player 2 is a freshman and B- level player, you play the senior more minutes. Maybe if your team is truly out of contention for the playoffs, that's not true. But its way too early to determine that.

I understand the arguments of Steve/Juan being the only options and Duane/Carlino etc having enough good moments to ignore the bad ones. I just look at it differently. If our best player does something dumb, I'm gonna critique it. I can live with it for sure, but still gonna call it out. I am probably less harsh on Derrick than I could be, but only because my expectations are so low for him already (and because I know plenty of others have the "critiquing" of Derrick covered). I tend to be harsher on players I perceive to have higher ceilings. Derrick, I know is playing at about the highest level he possibly can. JjJ, I don't think is.

I don't think I agree that the younger guys aren't getting enough playing time (besides Dawson). Johnson, Burton, and Cohen have played in every game. JjJ is getting 20 mpg, Burton is getting 16 and Cohen is getting 12. How much more time do they need before you finally have enough data?

Your last paragraph. Are you saying that no matter how good the younger guys are, Wojo wouldn't play them over Derrick? I just don't believe that. He might have a slight bump but not one that couldn't be overcome.

[brewcity77]

1.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
2.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
3.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
4.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.
5.  Wojo doesn't think so.  I trust his opinion more than yours.

And with that, I am going to try REAL hard to no longer engage in Derrick debates with you any longer.  One year of silly theories about Buzz was enough.  So far you look to be going down the same path with Wojo this year.

Not interested.

Here's the real problem...when it comes to basketball decisions on this team, I trust Wojo's opinion more than anyone on this site, myself included. It is pretty much the height of delusional arrogance to think any of us know better than the staff. Coaches that see these guys for hours per week are clearly going to have a better sense of who should play than the fanboys that see these guys for no more than 80 minutes per week.

We haven't seen Dawson in what, 9 months? Maybe he has the yips. Maybe he isn't grasping the system. Maybe Wojo simply doesn't trust him in close games. It's not like we've been playing in blow outs. Regardless, the guys that are best equipped to judge these guys are the ones that see them regularly, and that ain't us.

More than anything, though, isn't this supposed to be fun? People like Ners, Willie, and Wojo's Mojo, do they even like to watch Marquette? If I felt this bitter I can't imagine these games would be enjoyable.

Enjoy the process.

[NersEllenson]

Here's the real problem...when it comes to basketball decisions on this team, I trust Wojo's opinion more than anyone on this site, myself included. It is pretty much the height of delusional arrogance to think any of us know better than the staff. Coaches that see these guys for hours per week are clearly going to have a better sense of who should play than the fanboys that see these guys for no more than 80 minutes per week.

We haven't seen Dawson in what, 9 months? Maybe he has the yips. Maybe he isn't grasping the system. Maybe Wojo simply doesn't trust him in close games. It's not like we've been playing in blow outs. Regardless, the guys that are best equipped to judge these guys are the ones that see them regularly, and that ain't us.

More than anything, though, isn't this supposed to be fun? People like Ners, Willie, and Wojo's Mojo, do they even like to watch Marquette? If I felt this bitter I can't imagine these games would be enjoyable.

Enjoy the process.

Just to clarify:  I love watching Marquette hoops.  Love it even more when winning...but will watch every game win or lose.  Fans are entitled to disagree with a head coach's decisions - it happens all the time in sports.  You refer to it as delusional arrogance.  I disagree.  Coaches don't always have it right.  And nor do I of course.  Nonetheless, I'm entitled to my opinion - and I've never been more puzzled, confounded or baffled by a player getting max playing time in ANY sport, as I have Derrick.  It doesn't make me bitter.  Nor arrogant.  Just baffled...and obviously frustrated.

All that said, I can't wait till next year, but will watch every game this season and enjoy each game for what it is.

[brewcity77]

Maybe you need to watch Derrick less closely. That may seem counter intuitive, but maybe you are watching Derrick too close and too critically. If you watched guys like Burton and Cohen with the same critical eye, especially on defense, you would see what they do.

One of our biggest difficulties is overcoming seeing what we expect to see. When Derrick is average or below average, maybe your expectation causes you to see him as awful. And maybe when you watch guys you have higher hopes for you are more easily able to ignore similar flaws you see in Derrick.

I'm not saying Derrick is a terrific player, but I think he does bring some terrific attributes that few others on this team have. In the zone, he is one of the few players that can play on the perimeter or down low. He is a leader on a team without much experience. He protects the ball well while playing with others that can be turnover prone. And while he'll never be great on offense, he has improved his three point percentage and he looks a lot better next to more dynamic players like Carlino and Duane than he ever did next to Jake Thomas.

None of this is new, I'm sure you've heard it all before, but maybe if you look only at Derrick's positives while focusing more on the negatives of other guys you like it will make this season more enjoyable.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Here's the real problem...when it comes to basketball decisions on this team, I trust Wojo's opinion more than anyone on this site, myself included. It is pretty much the height of delusional arrogance to think any of us know better than the staff. Coaches that see these guys for hours per week are clearly going to have a better sense of who should play than the fanboys that see these guys for no more than 80 minutes per week.

We haven't seen Dawson in what, 9 months? Maybe he has the yips. Maybe he isn't grasping the system. Maybe Wojo simply doesn't trust him in close games. It's not like we've been playing in blow outs. Regardless, the guys that are best equipped to judge these guys are the ones that see them regularly, and that ain't us.

More than anything, though, isn't this supposed to be fun? People like Ners, Willie, and Wojo's Mojo, do they even like to watch Marquette? If I felt this bitter I can't imagine these games would be enjoyable.

Enjoy the process.

Speaking for myself, I love Marquette basketball and I don't really know where you get off questioning my love of the team. Who the hell are you? What I don't love is watching is a PG who should be playing 5 minutes a game, well at least if the team had any aspirations of being a tourney team. Based on what I have seen this year, I am conceding that we will finish around .500 and not be playing in the tourney. I can't wait til next year and the future is looking bright.

[real chili 83]

Speaking for myself, I love Marquette basketball and I don't really know where you get off questioning my love of the team. Who the hell are you? What I don't love is watching is a PG who should be playing 5 minutes a game, well at least if the team had any aspirations of being a tourney team. Based on what I have seen this year, I am conceding that we will finish around .500 and not be playing in the tourney. I can't wait til next year and the future is looking bright.

Really?

[GooooMarquette]

Just to clarify:  I love watching Marquette hoops.  Love it even more when winning...but will watch every game win or lose.  Fans are entitled to disagree with a head coach's decisions - it happens all the time in sports.  You refer to it as delusional arrogance.  I disagree.  Coaches don't always have it right.  And nor do I of course.  Nonetheless, I'm entitled to my opinion - and I've never been more puzzled, confounded or baffled by a player getting max playing time in ANY sport, as I have Derrick.  It doesn't make me bitter.  Nor arrogant.  Just baffled...and obviously frustrated.

Yes, fans often disagree with a head coach's decisions.  But on the Derrick debate, you have now disagreed with two completely different coaching staffs on the exact same decision.  At what point do you finally just say "well, I don't understand it, but it's pretty unlikely that two different coaching staffs are making a mistake when they come to the exact same conclusion regarding Derrick versus the alternatives...so maybe I should stop harping on it"?

Simply disagreeing with a decision here and there may not be delusional arrogance.  But when you question the same decision again and again and again, and then continue to question the same decision in a new season with a new coaching staff again and again and again...that sounds like delusional arrogance.

[MU82]

Ners:

Stop being hung up on Wojo calling Derrick "terrific." We all know Derrick isn't terrific. Chris Paul is terrific. Believe me, Wojo knows Derrick isn't terrific.

Wojo is glad to have Derrick. He is Wojo's security blanket for whatever reason. Maybe you're right about Wojo being comfortable with a player who reminds him of himself some. Whatever the deal, Wojo feels "responsible" for Derrick and wants to protect him from naysayers.

People rail against Derrick and Wojo knows it. So when somebody asks Wojo about Derrick after one of Derrick's few decent offensive games, Wojo is in defend-my-player mode and calls Derrick "terrific."

That's all it is. Coaches say all kinds of things. Roy Williams had 1 99/100ths of his feet out the door to Carolina yet he was still saying he wasn't necessarily leaving Kansas. Was he a "liar"? Depends on how literally you want to take this stuff. Phil Jackson was totally full of $hit, made stuff up all the time. I remember when the North Stars played the Penguins in the '91 Stanley Cup final and Mario Lemieux scored one of the great goals ever. When asked about it, North Stars coach Bob Gainey said, with a perfectly straight face, "It was not unlike some of the goals our players score." Coaches embellish, stretch the truth, use metaphors, exaggerate, make knee-jerk reactions, etc. It's so rare to have a coach tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that when one accidentally tells the truth about something, it's news.

Wojo's player was being criticized and he did what a coach is supposed to do. He stuck up for him. Was "terrific" over the top? Of course. It's a non-story. It's what coaches do.

If it makes you feel good to debate this topic until the cows come home -- and it obviously does, because the cows have been sleeping in the barn for a year now and yet you keep on debating it -- knock yourself out. But don't get hung up on the words a coach says in defense of his player.

For somebody who claims to "know how inside basketball works," you get swept away in unimportant minutiae pretty damn easily.

[real chili 83]

Ners:

Stop being hung up on Wojo calling Derrick "terrific." We all know Derrick isn't terrific. Chris Paul is terrific. Believe me, Wojo knows Derrick isn't terrific.

Wojo is glad to have Derrick. He is Wojo's security blanket for whatever reason. Maybe you're right about Wojo being comfortable with a player who reminds him of himself some. Whatever the deal, Wojo feels "responsible" for Derrick and wants to protect him from naysayers.

People rail against Derrick and Wojo knows it. So when somebody asks Wojo about Derrick after one of Derrick's few decent offensive games, Wojo is in defend-my-player mode and calls Derrick "terrific."

That's all it is. Coaches say all kinds of things. Roy Williams had 1 99/100ths of his feet out the door to Carolina yet he was still saying he wasn't necessarily leaving Kansas. Was he a "liar"? Depends on how literally you want to take this stuff. Phil Jackson was totally full of $hit, made stuff up all the time. I remember when the North Stars played the Penguins in the '91 Stanley Cup final and Mario Lemieux scored one of the great goals ever. When asked about it, North Stars coach Bob Gainey said, with a perfectly straight face, "It was not unlike some of the goals our players score." Coaches embellish, stretch the truth, use metaphors, exaggerate, make knee-jerk reactions, etc. It's so rare to have a coach tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that when one accidentally tells the truth about something, it's news.

Wojo's player was being criticized and he did what a coach is supposed to do. He stuck up for him. Was "terrific" over the top? Of course. It's a non-story. It's what coaches do.

If it makes you feel good to debate this topic until the cows come home -- and it obviously does, because the cows have been sleeping in the barn for a year now and yet you keep on debating it -- knock yourself out. But don't get hung up on the words a coach says in defense of his player.

For somebody who claims to "know how inside basketball works," you get swept away in unimportant minutiae pretty damn easily.

Why such a long response.  Ners won't change.

[Johnny B]

Why dont we just to change all thread names to (Derrick Wilson debate)

[NersEllenson]

Why such a long response.  Ners won't change.

Well.....The New Year is coming up...it would be a hell of a tough resolution to make...to go Derrick free for 2015 - especially if his minutes and Big East play mirror that of last year.  Hopefully he improves and perform solidly to where it isn't so challenging for me personally to accept the fact that he's our "best option."

[MU82]

Why such a long response.  Ners won't change.

Eh ... it's worth a shot. I know he won't stop fixating on Derrick, but maybe we can get him to stop fixating on "terrific"?