Problem wasn't height...

[GGGG]

I've never been one to rip on Derrick but he is so bad. I would much rather him have taken those wide open 3's than the circus shots he attempted last game. I don't see what he brings anymore, honestly. Especially now with the zone when you need length.

Now that Luke is eligible, I think you can start giving Derrick minutes to Duane and Carlino while playing Sandy and deonte more at the wing to give them a bigger lineup.

While I agree with the concept of giving less minutes to Derrick as we have more bodies available, Cohen and Deonte have at times looked completely lost in the zone. 

I would guess Derrick's minutes will decrease, but not substantially.

[brewcity77]

The problem with taking Derrick's minutes because he's not good enough is that the other options have been worse.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The problem with taking Derrick's minutes because he's not good enough is that the other options have been worse.

I dont think Sandy has been worse. I also dont think Deonte has been given a fare shake whether that be because he is not mentally in it or for other reasons, he seems to be the victim of the "quick pull" this year. I wont even start with the Derrick vs. Dawson debate. Having Fischer able to play gives us another body which I can (hopefully) see less minutes to Derrick. Yes he may play hard, yes he may be a good kid but he is a senior who has not gotten substantially better and is really just not good to get the minutes he does. At least Cohen is a frosh and Deonte is only a sophomore is well. Let the kids get some run.

[brewcity77]

Sandy has been worse. He's a better shooter than Derrick for sure, but he's more tentative on offense and is just starting to get the zone. I love his potential, but as a complete two way player, Derrick is better right now.

And you don't give kids run just for the sake of it. I would love it of these guys could take away some of Derrick's minutes if they earned it. Thus far no one has been able to do that.

[mu03eng]

I dont think Sandy has been worse. I also dont think Deonte has been given a fare shake whether that be because he is not mentally in it or for other reasons, he seems to be the victim of the "quick pull" this year. I wont even start with the Derrick vs. Dawson debate. Having Fischer able to play gives us another body which I can (hopefully) see less minutes to Derrick. Yes he may play hard, yes he may be a good kid but he is a senior who has not gotten substantially better and is really just not good to get the minutes he does. At least Cohen is a frosh and Deonte is only a sophomore is well. Let the kids get some run.

If you look at total game Sandy and Deonte have been worse, but not a lot.  Derrick will play less minutes with Fischer coming in and I think Burton will benefit from Fischer being in the line-up more than any other player on the roster.  Having said that, Burton hasn't really had a quick hook because he really hasn't been producing on either end to earn more minutes.

Derrick is very solid on defense and a known, albiet inconsequential, quantity on offense.  Cohen and Burton have issues on both ends, so Derrick plays.  Barring significant injury I think Derrick plays 5-8 minutes less a game by the end of the season as Cohen and Burton develop....but we aren't there yet.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

If you look at total game Sandy and Deonte have been worse, but not a lot.  Derrick will play less minutes with Fischer coming in and I think Burton will benefit from Fischer being in the line-up more than any other player on the roster.  Having said that, Burton hasn't really had a quick hook because he really hasn't been producing on either end to earn more minutes.

Derrick is very solid on defense and a known, albiet inconsequential, quantity on offense.  Cohen and Burton have issues on both ends, so Derrick plays.  Barring significant injury I think Derrick plays 5-8 minutes less a game by the end of the season as Cohen and Burton develop....but we aren't there yet.

I just feel like Deonte needs minutes to be effective. I feel like that's just his nature. That being said I don't think any of us realize what his mental state is right now. Derrick is a very good defender I would just like Wojo to explore some other combinations because everybody knows what Derrick is and is not.

(PS: Ners this is how you create an effective argument regarding Derricks playing time.)

[mu03eng]

I just feel like Deonte needs minutes to be effective. I feel like that's just his nature. That being said I don't think any of us realize what his mental state is right now. Derrick is a very good defender I would just like Wojo to explore some other combinations because everybody knows what Derrick is and is not.

(PS: Ners this is how you create an effective argument regarding Derricks playing time.)

I absolutely agree with Burton's mental state as question mark right now.  He proved last year that he is legit, so attribute his issues this year to mental and lack of supporting height from other players.  With Fischer coming back that takes care of one of those things.  He'll get there.

And +1 billion to your last statement.

[brewcity77]

If you look at total game Sandy and Deonte have been worse, but not a lot.  Derrick will play less minutes with Fischer coming in and I think Burton will benefit from Fischer being in the line-up more than any other player on the roster.

Great point about Burton. Right now he just gets swallowed up inside. Fischer should give him more space to work with and another guy down low he can dump there ball to. I really hope Deonte can start taking some more minutes.

[Class71]

I just feel like Deonte needs minutes to be effective. I feel like that's just his nature. That being said I don't think any of us realize what his mental state is right now. Derrick is a very good defender I would just like Wojo to explore some other combinations because everybody knows what Derrick is and is not.

(PS: Ners this is how you create an effective argument regarding Derricks playing time.)

Four areas I would suggest Deonte, who has great potential, should work on:

1) Defense

2) Better shot selection

3) Protect the ball better

4) Take open three's


Comments?

[tower912]

Four areas I would suggest Deonte, who has great potential, should work on:

1) Defense

2) Better shot selection

3) Protect the ball better

4) Take open three's


Comments?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles

Deonte Burton, 129 minutes, 11 rebounds for the year.  Maybe that is acceptable as a wing, it is certainly not acceptable from a PF.    If Luke's presence means that MU can live with that rebounding rate, maybe he will see the floor more. 

[MU82]

While I agree with the concept of giving less minutes to Derrick as we have more bodies available, Cohen and Deonte have at times looked completely lost in the zone. 

When watching a game on TV, it's not easy to focus on anything other than the ball because that's what the camera is on. But in the next game or two I am going to try to force myself to watch Marquette's zone, specifically what Derrick is doing well in it and what Cohen, JJJ and Deonte are doing poorly.

[tower912]

When watching a game on TV, it's not easy to focus on anything other than the ball because that's what the camera is on. But in the next game or two I am going to try to force myself to watch Marquette's zone, specifically what Derrick is doing well in it and what Cohen, JJJ and Deonte are doing poorly.

Lots of hands down, half-step late defensive rotations for both when they are weak side.  

[Lennys Tap]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles

Deonte Burton, 129 minutes, 11 rebounds for the year.  Maybe that is acceptable as a wing, it is certainly not acceptable from a PF.    If Luke's presence means that MU can live with that rebounding rate, maybe he will see the floor more. 

3.4 rebounds per 40 minutes, rebound to turnover ratio of 1:1, assist to turnover ratio of 1:5.5. Likely part of it is his mind being somewhere else, and certainly part of it is missing Ox and/or Chris. One thing for sure, we can forget those crazy notions about him leaving early for the NBA.

[g0lden3agle]

Lots of hands down, half-step late defensive rotations for both when they are weak side.  

The bolded in particular.  There are possessions on defense that drive me absolutely mad when they're active with their bodies but not their hands, leading to passes going right past them when they could have easily been deflected if they were keeping their hands more active.

[real chili 83]

There are 3 things all basketball players learn about defense.

HANDS UP. ALWAYS.
NEVER, EVER GIVE UP THE BASELINE
BOX OUT. GOD GAVE YOU AN A$$.  Use it to box out.

[willie warrior]

The problem with taking Derrick's minutes because he's not good enough is that the other options have been worse.

There are two other options that are markedly better at PG: Du. Wilson and Carlino. Since we are playing zone, Derrick's elite defense is not needed.

[mu03eng]

There are two other options that are markedly better at PG: Du. Wilson and Carlino. Since we are playing zone, Derrick's elite defense is not needed.

Have you seen JjJ or Cohen on the wing?  Derrick and Juan are the only one that's have consistently played good defense on the wing in the 2-3.

And there isn't a PG in the traditional sense for Wojo.  Carlino and Du Wilson have the ball in their hands more than Derrick does when all three play together.

[NersEllenson]

Have you seen JjJ or Cohen on the wing?  Derrick and Juan are the only one that's have consistently played good defense on the wing in the 2-3.

And there isn't a PG in the traditional sense for Wojo.  Carlino and Du Wilson have the ball in their hands more than Derrick does when all three play together.

Derrick's Value Add D-Rating is the worst on the team - FYI.  And, there is so little playing time for JJJ and Cohen on the wing - to draw the conclusion that they haven't played consistently good defense in that wing position is suspect at best.  Both have much more length than Derrick, and length is always good to have in a zone D.  Ask Jim Boheim.  

[GGGG]

Derrick's Value Add D-Rating is the worst on the team - FYI.  And, there is so little playing time for JJJ and Cohen on the wing - to draw the conclusion that they haven't played consistently good defense in that wing position is suspect at best.  Both have much more length than Derrick, and length is always good to have in a zone D.  Ask Jim Boheim.   

D ratings are next to useless when a team is playing a zone.  It is basically a meaningless stat.

Cohen was much better when he was up top in the zone.  That is where he is better off with his length.

[mu03eng]

Derrick's Value Add D-Rating is the worst on the team - FYI.  And, there is so little playing time for JJJ and Cohen on the wing - to draw the conclusion that they haven't played consistently good defense in that wing position is suspect at best.  Both have much more length than Derrick, and length is always good to have in a zone D.  Ask Jim Boheim.  

Seriously?  You may be clinically insane at this point.  JjJ played only the wing in the zone against Wisconsin and was directly responsible for at least 2 if not 3 of Gasser's 4 3-pt shots.  Cohen only played on the top of the zone against Wisconsin.

Length is good, but it turns out if JjJ plays with his hands down and a step slow he's not better than Derrick on the wing despite that length.  JjJ had 10 minutes in the wing against Wisconsin, how much time does he need????  It's ok to admit Derrick is the better player on defense right now, I swear the sun will rise and the earth will continue to spin.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Derrick's Value Add D-Rating is the worst on the team - FYI.  And, there is so little playing time for JJJ and Cohen on the wing - to draw the conclusion that they haven't played consistently good defense in that wing position is suspect at best.  Both have much more length than Derrick, and length is always good to have in a zone D.  Ask Jim Boheim.  

It is interesting that Derrick has the lowest value add D-rating on the team. I don't comprehend the stat completely, but I do believe that zone defense lessens the reliability of the stat because it places its emphasis on one on one defense instead of team defense.

I'm not throwing away the stat, you can't ignore data. But tell me honestly, watching them play, do you really believe that Derrick is the worst defender on the team? Do you really believe that Jajuan Johnson is the second best defender on the team?

[MUfan12]

I'm not throwing away the stat, you can't ignore data. But tell me honestly, watching them play, do you really believe that Derrick is the worst defender on the team? Do you really believe that Jajuan Johnson is the second best defender on the team?

MU is significantly worse on both ends when Jajuan plays.

[mu03eng]

I'm not throwing away the stat, you can't ignore data. But tell me honestly, watching them play, do you really believe that Derrick is the worst defender on the team? Do you really believe that Jajuan Johnson is the second best defender on the team?

You could call it....the eye test

[willie warrior]

Sorry - I should have clarified that with loses all credibility with regard to the reality of Derrick as a player. It's a lie. He isn't terrific. And I think even those here who support Derrick would agree he isn't terrific. It's simply more of the same we saw with Buzz last year - trying to publicly prop up a guy (who they love as a person/intangibles) who's performance on the floor suggests the exact opposite. Buzz used elite, game changer etc. it's totally exaggerated/embellished hyperbole. And that's where I call BS.

There are plenty of fans here and elsewhere that know that Derrick should not be getting the minutes at PG. It is only a few like TAMU and the Slurper that fail to recognize that Duane and Carlino should be getting most of those minutes at PG The only thing any body hangs their hat on with Derrick is that he is a great defender--which is pure BS, and we are now playing zone where he is average at best.
Now of course, we will still hear--but wait, but wait, Wojo and Buzz both cannot be wrong. Derrick is the man!!
Let's see, cannot score, cannot shoot FT's, cannot shoot beyond 10 feet, cannot penetrate and finish, cannot draw a defender 10 feet from the basket, cannot create, and does not have lateral quickness. All of these areas both Carlino and Duane are superior to Derrick. Breakdown at PG should be Carlino 20-25 minutes, Duane 8-12 minutes and Derrick the balance.
But Hey--Derrick is the man.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Derrick's Value Add D-Rating is the worst on the team - FYI.  And, there is so little playing time for JJJ and Cohen on the wing - to draw the conclusion that they haven't played consistently good defense in that wing position is suspect at best.  Both have much more length than Derrick, and length is always good to have in a zone D.  Ask Jim Boheim.  

It seems like we're coming full circle on this topic.

Last season, you cried for Dawson, and claimed he hadn't been given enough minutes to really evaluate.

Now we're saying the same thing for JJJ & Cohen.

At some point, we all have to admit that we see VERY little of these guys compared to the coaches. I assume the coaches have a good feel for who should play and who shouldn't. Now, that doesn't mean Wojo is infallible, but your infatuation with "anybody but #12" is replaying itself again this season.

We're right back in the same spot: Derrick might be the best option in a list of mediocre/bad options.