In other news, DJ Newbill sets record

[brewcity77]

Ners, I am 100% confident that the multiple people I have talked to about this know more about this than you do.  These include people connected to the basketball program that don't have any reason to protect Buzz.  (Like, the same people who told me about Mayo's academic issues long before you knew about it.)

So be careful about who you believe here.  I'm not saying you should automatically believe what I am saying here, but wholeheartedly endorsing the word of this guy is probably not a smart move on your part.

+1

Fact: Not a single person here - including PhillyCoach and others' "inside" sources - know what was said between Buzz and Newbill.
You're all relying on second- (or third or fourth) hand accounts given to you by people who have plenty of motive to be less than completely honest.

And another +1

There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.

[BCHoopster]

Bottom Line, Buzz screwed with DJ and his peeps, was traded for Jamil Wilson.  Buzz was to immature to handle it properly, and was a really messy situation.  It happens, DJ moved on, so did
Buzz(to a different school).  I am sure there were worse things that Buzz did, this was one of them handled behind the scene that was wrong.  Glad we have Wojo.

[PhillyCoach]

+1

And another +1

There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.

+1

And another +1
Duh, at this level of college sports the University has every reason to protect Buzz. IE. bad moral and ethical judgement and does't show the school and it's employee in a good light. Bad PR.....
There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.

[PhillyCoach]

There's plenty of blame to cast around regarding the Newbill situation. Buzz definitely deserves some of that, Forster too, but I don't think anyone deserves more blame than Stan Laws, aka "PhillyCoach".

and why do i deserve blame? please explain since you know absolutely nothing.....

[NersEllenson]

As I have said before, Buzz was hardly blameless for this clusterf*ck. 

Again, you and Chicos can choose to believe me...or not. 

Do you really believe that high major recruits coaches aren't actively involved and aware of what is going on in a kid's recruitment?  Who do you think DJ leaned on for advice/guidance?  Does DJ have a father?  Often the coach becomes the father figure and a recruit shares a lot and actively involves their coach/mentor in the process.

Philly Coach is a hell of a lot more close to the situation - a direct connection to DJ - than any of the 3rd hand accounts people on the MU side of things get wind of.

It all starts with Buzz/Monarch - they come up with their spin on what happens

Share that with insiders

Who then share that with 3rd parties such as here.

Again, why would a kid sign an NLI, and eliminate his options to go to other high major schools if there were strings attached to signing the NLI (such as we might want to send you to prep school?)  What vested interest does Philly Coach have to fabricate this story??

MU/Buzz stand a lot more to lose for engaging in a dirty recruiting process and of course want to have their story out with all the spin to protect against consequences.  I can't believe how naive you are choosing to be on this matter.

Do you really think for a second if Jamil Wilson doesn't come to MU DJ isn't at MU?

[GGGG]

I've addressed all of it before.  Don' t need to do so again.

Again, you can choose to believe what I was told, or choose to believe PhillyCoach flat out, or as Pakuni says, believe there are elements of truth in both.  Your choice.

[NersEllenson]

I've addressed all of it before.  Don' t need to do so again.

Again, you can choose to believe what I was told, or choose to believe PhillyCoach flat out, or as Pakuni says, believe there are elements of truth in both.  Your choice.

Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was?  Let me guess...you won't?

[MU B2002]

Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was?  Let me guess...you won't?

Why would he?  He has nothing to prove to anyone.  He has a version of the story that he is choosing to believe, and probably enjoys having inside information. We also know that no matter what he tells you, it won't change your mind, so why waste the time.

[NersEllenson]

Why would he?  He has nothing to prove to anyone.  He has a version of the story that he is choosing to believe, and probably enjoys having inside information. We also know that no matter what he tells you, it won't change your mind, so why waste the time.

LOL - Yea, I'm probably a little more inclined to believe DJ's coach and mentor, than I am what Sultan heard through at best a 2nd or 3rd party source that got their info from the coach who did the dirty deal.  Again, what does DJ's coach have to gain for lying?  Why would DJ sign an NLI with MU, which ends his ability to be recruited by other high majors - if he knew signing it had strings attached?  Think DJ really wanted to have to go

And as for not sharing his side of the story - it's pretty cheesy to say things such as:  That isn't how it went down...and then never reveal what did go down.  I mean everyone here could start to make all kinds of statements pertaining to inside knowledge and then simply say - I'm not going to share because of X, Y and Z - but, you are wrong. 

[GGGG]

Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was?  Let me guess...you won't?

Read the thread.  Read other threads.

I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.

[NersEllenson]

Read the thread.  Read other threads.

I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.

Uh okay...a review of your posts in this thread is more vague commentary that doesn't articulate anything other than "Hey...I know what happened...but I can't reveal my source and won't retell what I know.  But believe me....and not DJ's mentor and coach.  LOL. 

MU/Buzz spun that they discussed Prep School with DJ...how can that be proven/disproven?  It's a he said/she said.  Perfect alibi for Buzz.  I'm still waiting for you or any others who deny Philly Coaches account to explain:

What do they have to gain 4 years later for sticking to their original story as to how it went down?

Why would DJ sign an NLI and in so doing close his recruitment from other high major programs - when he was being recruited by other high majors? 

If DJ was so into MU and knew Prep School was an option - why didn't he just go to a Prep School for a year anyway...and then come to MU the next??  But instead he went to Southern Miss.  Why??  Because he had no desire to go to Prep School.  No thought of going to Prep School.  And was completely caught off guard by Buzz doing him dirty.

Why in God's name does Vander wanting to turn pro early/as a sophomore have anything to do with this as Blackheart suggested?  DJ and Vander were in the same freaking class year...

It reeks of a lot more B.S., on the side of Buzz/MU than on the Newbill side.  But hey Sultan, whatever makes you feel better with regard to Buzz in this matter. 

[4everwarriors]

Santa's comin' down your chimney in 3 weeks if you believe Buzz didn't rip that offer outta DJ's paws

[brandx]

Read the thread.  Read other threads.

I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.

I wish the guy you are talking to had that attitude toward a certain topic.

[Lennys Tap]

MU/Buzz spun that they discussed Prep School with DJ...how can that be proven/disproven?  It's a he said/she said.  Perfect alibi for Buzz.  I'm still waiting for you or any others who deny Philly Coaches account to explain:

What do they have to gain 4 years later for sticking to their original story as to how it went down?

You call Philly Coach a mentor and a coach. Maybe he is, but he operates in the cesspool that is AAU basketball where "mentors" are often "handlers". Why stick to a story that totally exonerates him? Why try to paint himself as an innocent victim? Pretty good for one's street cred.

Riddle me this - if Buzz is such a dishonest guy with recruits how does he keep getting such good ones? Are Marquette and Virginia Tech so desirable that they recruit themselves?

[brewcity77]

Do you really think for a second if Jamil Wilson doesn't come to MU DJ isn't at MU?

Absolutely 100% without a doubt. Jamil to Marquette was in place well before any of the Newbill stuff.

and why do i deserve blame? please explain since you know absolutely nothing.....

I've said before that the story I believe has not been shared on a public forum and I won't be the one to change that.

[brandx]

You call Philly Coach a mentor and a coach. Maybe he is, but he operates in the cesspool that is AAU basketball where "mentors" are often "handlers". Why stick to a story that totally exonerates him? Why try to paint himself as an innocent victim? Pretty good for one's street cred.

Riddle me this - if Buzz is such a dishonest guy with recruits how does he keep getting such good ones? Are Marquette and Virginia Tech so desirable that they recruit themselves?

I'm not necessarily saying Buzz was dishonest - but dishonest coaches get good recruits every year.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not necessarily saying Buzz was dishonest - but dishonest coaches get good recruits every year.

Dishonest in the lengths they go FOR recruits? No doubt. But if you're you're going to be dishonest TO recruits - that's a rep that will haunt a guy.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Ernie Kent was fired in mid-March. Players were looking to transfer immediately. Kenny Caldwell, a Chicago street runner for sports agent Mike Naiditch, began shopping three of the Chicago Mean Streets transfers, one of which, Josh Crittle, joined a slew of Chicago kids at UCF (including the Jordans). After a year's investigation, this led to a five year probation and a show-cause against UCF and Donnie Jones. This is and was well documented at the time and discussed on this board. No imaginary sources.

Because of the investigation, the smoke had to clear on Jamil as Oregon and the NCAA wanted to get under the flight of transfers. In Jamil's case, his family ran his AAU team so the conflict was easy to clear. He officially signed the end of June after his relatively quick release all things considered, after a month's delay. (Dunigan eventually went pro later in the summer, represented by Naiditch).

As for Newbill's primary mèntor,  the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach. Apparently, this is where Newbill's story goes south as there was little or no communication between the parties.

Was it confusion, cold hearted treatment, poor communication...probably all of the above. Stan has filled in the blanks as he is way closer to the story. We will never know for sure or agree.  Read more below from DJs camp. I think Monarch (and Buzz) screwed the pooch, but I do believe other understandings were made.  Squirm-o-Meter recalibration, no different than Saunders or Levin. Fifty Shades of Grey.

Jay Wright has stashed recruits in Preps in the past, it is not unheard of in Philly.  Btw, I have heard the Newbill part of this story via a Nova connection. As to the Naiditch side, let's just say he represents Enes Kanter who never made it to Kentucky (story below). (And we have discussed his Badger ties in the past as well).

Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).

Keep arguing...

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html?mode=jqm

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6453773

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).

Correct you are...I was getting whiffs for some time and part of that was due to stories that we or parties representing our staff were pushing to lure him out IMO.  That's tampering in my book, but there are ways to do it so you don't get in trouble and technically are within the letter of the law.  I'm not naive to think it doesn't happen, but I don't have to like it one bit.  I've never cared for how the DJ incident went down and the lack of communication by MU representatives to him and his family.  College sports can be a shady business, no one is denying this, but so can a lot of business ventures in this world.  At the end of the day, you need to be able to look people in the eye, give them a firm handshake, call it like it is and your word should mean something.  If you are going to play the game of over recruiting, or stashing players at prep schools.....fine.....then be clear from day one with those people that you are doing this and make damn sure they communicate back that everyone understands the deal.  We didn't do that.  Not only did we not do that, we went radio silent completely.

That was the biggest disappointment to me and led to that incident.  It ultimately worked out for DJ, but how many kids does it not work out for? 

I'm out...

[GGGG]

Ernie Kent was fired in mid-March. Players were looking to transfer immediately. Kenny Caldwell, a Chicago street runner for sports agent Mike Naiditch, began shopping three of the Chicago Mean Streets transfers, one of which, Josh Crittle, joined a slew of Chicago kids at UCF (including the Jordans). After a year's investigation, this led to a five year probation and a show-cause against UCF and Donnie Jones. This is and was well documented at the time and discussed on this board. No imaginary sources.

Because of the investigation, the smoke had to clear on Jamil as Oregon and the NCAA wanted to get under the flight of transfers. In Jamil's case, his family ran his AAU team so the conflict was easy to clear. He officially signed the end of June after his relatively quick release all things considered, after a month's delay. (Dunigan eventually went pro later in the summer, represented by Naiditch).

As for Newbill's primary mèntor,  the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach. Apparently, this is where Newbill's story goes south as there was little or no communication between the parties.

Was it confusion, cold hearted treatment, poor communication...probably all of the above. Stan has filled in the blanks as he is way closer to the story. We will never know for sure or agree.  Read more below from DJs camp. I think Monarch (and Buzz) screwed the pooch, but I do believe other understandings were made.  Squirm-o-Meter recalibration, no different than Saunders or Levin. Fifty Shades of Grey.

Jay Wright has stashed recruits in Preps in the past, it is not unheard of in Philly.  Btw, I have heard the Newbill part of this story via a Nova connection. As to the Naiditch side, let's just say he represents Enes Kanter who never made it to Kentucky (story below). (And we have discussed his Badger ties in the past as well).

Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).

I think this is a completely reasonable, and probably very accurate version of the story.

This is why I am hardly absolving Buzz here.  Messing around with prep placements, conditional offers, poor communication, etc.  Not a good way of doing business.

My problem is that certain posters are taking PhillyCoach's version of the story as gospel. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

One thing I found interesting in the Oregon case was that it was okay under NCAA guidelines for Naiditch to advise Dunigan if no money exchanged hands (A pro agent from Highland Park knew Dunigan since 6th or 7th grade). Caldwell was a paid runner though so UCF was dinged which crossed the line big time. I think must of us here would see a conflict in both but not the NCAA. I think a family checking out availability would be and was considered legit.

As for the Prep school stashing, is that any different than the Indiana situation with the local AAU coach and Hanner-Perea or Bo with his own AAU team? All push the 50 shades of grey envelope. Recalibrate those Squirm-O-Meters as I suspect it will get worse, not better, once schools are allowed to pay these kids a salary.

[StillAWarrior]

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html?mode=jqm

It's hard to read that story and not root for the kid.  It would have been great if he'd been a Warrior.  But there's no question he's a fighter, and I really wish him the best.

[NersEllenson]

I think this is a completely reasonable, and probably very accurate version of the story.

This is why I am hardly absolving Buzz here.  Messing around with prep placements, conditional offers, poor communication, etc.  Not a good way of doing business.

My problem is that certain posters are taking PhillyCoach's version of the story as gospel. 

Yeah, sorry I'm going to take a kid's high school coaches account, and the kid's account as being a little more accurate than what you've heard through some 3rd party sources - who got their information from the spin Buzz/camp created.  The fact Buzz was too big of coward to call the kid/coach on his own speaks volumes.  Buzz knew he F'd the kid and didn't want to face the music and tell him, himself.

I know you want to believe MU all along was saying prep school was an option for DJ....but again:

If DJ was so into MU and knew Prep School was an option - why didn't he just go to a Prep School for a year anyway...and then come to MU the next??  But instead he went to Southern Miss. 

Would you as a kid sign a "conditional NLI" that eliminates your ability to be recruited by other programs...knowing that the school you just committed to may not be fully committed to you??

Read the article Blackheart linked - it sure doesn't sound like DJ is the kind of kid to make up some B.S. - sounds like a GREAT young man, with good character.

But again, you can just bury your head in the sand on this as you did Buzz's coaching last season.   

[Lennys Tap]

As for Newbill's primary mèntor,  the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach.

Thanks, Doctor. I stand corrected, as I thought Philly Coach was DJ's AAU coach/mentor, not his high school coach. If Hardette was the guy truly handling DJ's recruitment and Philly Coach only stepped into the breach when Hardette died in May of DJ's senior year it's easy to see how things could have gotten screwed up. There was no reason for Philly Coach to be privy to understandings between MU and Hardette/DJ, but just because he wasn't privy to an understanding doesn't mean there wasn't one.

[NersEllenson]

Thanks, Doctor. I stand corrected, as I thought Philly Coach was DJ's AAU coach/mentor, not his high school coach. If Hardette was the guy truly handling DJ's recruitment and Philly Coach only stepped into the breach when Hardette died in May of DJ's senior year it's easy to see how things could have gotten screwed up. There was no reason for Philly Coach to be privy to understandings between MU and Hardette/DJ, but just because he wasn't privy to an understanding doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Lenny - Why do you think Buzz didn't call DJ and or Philly Coach to tell them of his "decision?"

If the conspiracy theory being floated here by the MU camp was that they told DJ there was a chance they'd ask/want him to enroll in a Prep School - and if MU was DJ's dream school as DJ said - why wouldn't DJ just have followed through on the original understanding, enrolled in prep school, and come to MU the next season?

The article Blackheart linked - MU had no comment on - but plenty of published quotes from DJ and Stan Laws - you believe they were slandering MU and Buzz?  Seems Buzz/MU could have put an end to that in the immediate aftermath of "going a different direction" if there were an upfront agreement.

Why would DJ officially end his recruitment, sign an NLI and eliminate opportunites to sign with other programs who didn't have strings attached to their offer - if he were aware of this upfront?