MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: 79Warrior on November 23, 2014, 09:27:42 PM
-
Scored 83 points in three games in Charleston Classic
-
Another one of Burt's f-ups.
-
He would have graduated already if he stayed at MU, let it go.
-
Superbar. at best.
-
Wonder if Newbill has December 3rd circled on his calendar.
Penn State home versus Virginia Tech.
-
Scored 83 points in three games in Charleston Classic
Did he play any defense?
-
Did he play any defense?
Im sure it was better than Carlinos defense....
-
Not sure what about this year ending will be better. No more debates over Derrick's worth, or no more trolling DJ Newbill discussions.
-
A decision made 5 years ago and people are still doing the Buzz-hater slurp over it. I don't disagree that Buzz handled it poorly. But MU did fine without him until last year, and even if he had come to MU, there is no guarantee he would have stayed, buried behind Vander. Ah, well, people still remember Damian Saunders, too.
-
How many paint touches?
-
A decision made 5 years ago and people are still doing the Buzz-hater slurp over it. I don't disagree that Buzz handled it poorly. But MU did fine without him until last year, and even if he had come to MU, there is no guarantee he would have stayed, buried behind Vander. Ah, well, people still remember Damian Saunders, too.
Anxiously awaiting the Gabe Levin Watch
-
1. I think it is interesting and relevant to see what players formerly associated with Marquette are doing and I appreciate the updates.
2. The Newbill situation was the first time we saw the wolf under Buzz's sheepskin. Many chose to keep their eyes closed (myself included, I think), but we had a taste then of what loyalty meant to Coach Williams.
3. The hypothetical situations put forth (what might have been) are fun, but rarely, if ever, account for all of the variables associated with what might have occurred. They are fantasy, at best.
4. I hope Newbill stomps Virginia Tech when they play.
-
Couldn't agree more on all 4 MUCam. I love getting updates like these. Keep em coming.
-
Do you thnk Edmund Saunders was less of a big deal beacuse we all knew Crean was a piece of crap?
-
A decision made 5 years ago and people are still doing the Buzz-hater slurp over it. I don't disagree that Buzz handled it poorly. But MU did fine without him until last year, and even if he had come to MU, there is no guarantee he would have stayed, buried behind Vander. Ah, well, people still remember Damian Saunders, too.
LOL....a game 10+ years ago and people are still.....
-
I'd like to point out that Newbill is the leading score on a pretty bad Penn State team over the last couple of years. I agree that the whole situation was shady and poorly handled (most on MU side, but Newbill's side as well), but who is Newbill replacing? Does he get minutes on any of Buzz's teams prior to last year? Buzz doesn't play freshmen.
I get that its an opportunity to pee on Buzz's grave and I'm all for that, but it's not a legitimate basketball discussion.
-
2. The Newbill situation was the first time we saw the wolf under Buzz's sheepskin. Many chose to keep their eyes closed (myself included, I think), but we had a taste then of what loyalty meant to Coach Williams.
I don't like defending our former coach, but I'm really tired of this Newbill sh*t. There was fault on both sides.
-
1. I think it is interesting and relevant to see what players formerly associated with Marquette are doing and I appreciate the updates.
2. The Newbill situation was the first time we saw the wolf under Buzz's sheepskin. Many chose to keep their eyes closed (myself included, I think), but we had a taste then of what loyalty meant to Coach Williams.
3. The hypothetical situations put forth (what might have been) are fun, but rarely, if ever, account for all of the variables associated with what might have occurred. They are fantasy, at best.
4. I hope Newbill stomps Virginia Tech when they play.
+1 all around.
-
Buzz sacrificed the long term for the short term by "removing" Newbill for Jamil Wilson. It was the correct decision as the move led us to an Elite 8. Without Wilson, that doesn't happen. Newbill may have been the catalyst last year to get into the NCAA tourney but as what? A bubble team? That team's ceiling would have been round of 32 and that is being kind.
No thanks.
-
There was fault on both sides.
Agreed. However, one side was a grown adult man making millions to run a top level college basketball program and the other side was a high school senior, right?
If Newbill's name was LeBron James, you think Marquette and Buzz would have ensured that all paperwork got done in the proper manner? To me, that was a manufactured excuse for ulterior, and not so secretive, motives.
Let's not pretend like Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing; again, it is a stale and old issue and it need not be rehashed again. I was just stating that it was one of the first examples of Buzz's true personality.
Buzz is what he is and we were happy to live with it when winning. We just found out the downside to living with it when he slipped out the door in the middle of the night.
-
NM
-
Agreed. However, one side was a grown adult man making millions to run a top level college basketball program and the other side was a high school senior, right?
If Newbill's name was LeBron James, you think Marquette and Buzz would have ensured that all paperwork got done in the proper manner? To me, that was a manufactured excuse for ulterior, and not so secretive, motives.
Let's not pretend like Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing; again, it is a stale and old issue and it need not be rehashed again. I was just stating that it was one of the first examples of Buzz's true personality.
Buzz is what he is and we were happy to live with it when winning. We just found out the downside to living with it when he slipped out the door in the middle of the night.
There was more to the story than the whole application issue. Let's just say that Newbill's side knew that there could be different outcomes beforehand. That being said, it was dumb of Buzz to do what he did.
-
There was more to the story than the whole application issue. Let's just say that Newbill's side knew that there were different outcomes beforehand. That being said, it was dumb of Buzz to do what he did.
In Buzz's mind he was leaving as soon as the right program opened up. Trading Newbill for Jamil Wilson got him an elite 8, of which, was a resume booster for him to boost his value as a head coach. Selfish, yes, but that's what Buzz was. In that mindset, it makes all the sense in the world to do what he did.
-
There was more to the story than the whole application issue. Let's just say that Newbill's side knew that there could be different outcomes beforehand. That being said, it was dumb of Buzz to do what he did.
Bingo.
-
In Buzz's mind he was leaving as soon as the right program opened up. Trading Newbill for Jamil Wilson got him an elite 8, of which, was a resume booster for him to boost his value as a head coach. Selfish, yes, but that's what Buzz was. In that mindset, it makes all the sense in the world to do what he did.
That isn't entirely accurate. But in your short time here I don't think accuracy is your strong suit.
-
That isn't entirely accurate. But in your short time here I don't think accuracy is your strong suit.
What isn't accurate about it? Cite some facts please.
-
LOL....a game 10+ years ago and people are still.....
Does this mean you are off of your not discussing Crean on Scoop hiatus, Jimmytelevision?
-
Agreed. However, one side was a grown adult man making millions to run a top level college basketball program and the other side was a high school senior, right?
If Newbill's name was LeBron James, you think Marquette and Buzz would have ensured that all paperwork got done in the proper manner? To me, that was a manufactured excuse for ulterior, and not so secretive, motives.
Let's not pretend like Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing; again, it is a stale and old issue and it need not be rehashed again. I was just stating that it was one of the first examples of Buzz's true personality.
Buzz is what he is and we were happy to live with it when winning. We just found out the downside to living with it when he slipped out the door in the middle of the night.
Some people knew about the trash long before he slipped out the door in the middle night, they were warned, people just didn't want to listen. Just win baby......
-
What isn't accurate about it? Cite some facts please.
Buzz wasn't looking to get out at that point. The Newbill / Jamil issue wasn't a trade.
-
I'm not sure any incident in Buzz's tenure here is more misunderstood than DJ Newbill's recruitment.
-
Buzz wasn't looking to get out at that point. The Newbill / Jamil issue wasn't a trade.
Buzz was looking to get out to go to Oklahoma as early as 2011 until the sexual assault accusations came to the forefront. I suggest you update yourself and read the Paint touches article by Adrei Greska about Buzz Williams.
"Trade" - Hmm..... inability to read figures of speech? Jamil Wilson was given a scholarship after Newbill had signed, which put us over the limit. Wilson, being taller, more seasoned as a junior, and of an elite, athletic build, fit a need for MU. He'd be an impact player right away, whereas Newbill was just another freshman guard on a team with a guard surplus. Adding Wilson would make this team much more competitive and give us a better chance to compete in the tournament. Newbill got the short end of the stick and was let go.
Buzz made the play that would make him look better to programs looking for a new coach. Integrity was sacrificed for personal gain. Of course, it didn't play out as he expected. Sexual assault accusations tainted him pretty badly, which is why he ended up going to VaTech. Everyone was surprised as to why he would go to an inferior program, but it was the smart play. You have a program that has zero bball tradition that will gamble on someone with question marks like Buzz. They play in a Power 5 conference which gives him the media attention he craves, and the program can't get any worse. It's a place where, if he succeeds turning a turd into a golden nugget, he'll be one of the most sought after coaches for the next big opening. It's been his plan all along as evidenced by the Oklahoma job.
-
NM
-
Agreed. However, one side was a grown adult man making millions to run a top level college basketball program and the other side was a high school senior, right?
If Newbill's name was LeBron James, you think Marquette and Buzz would have ensured that all paperwork got done in the proper manner? To me, that was a manufactured excuse for ulterior, and not so secretive, motives.
Let's not pretend like Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing; again, it is a stale and old issue and it need not be rehashed again. I was just stating that it was one of the first examples of Buzz's true personality.
Buzz is what he is and we were happy to live with it when winning. We just found out the downside to living with it when he slipped out the door in the middle of the night.
+1 gazillion
-
Sexual assault accusations tainted him pretty badly, which is why he ended up going to VaTech. Everyone was surprised as to why he would go to an inferior program, but it was the smart play. You have a program that has zero bball tradition that will gamble on someone with question marks like Buzz. They play in a Power 5 conference which gives him the media attention he craves, and the program can't get any worse. It's a place where, if he succeeds turning a turd into a golden nugget, he'll be one of the most sought after coaches for the next big opening. It's been his plan all along as evidenced by the Oklahoma job.
Much of this is true, but there are a slew of programs that will never touch him and there are reasons why. Those that want to win and don't care about the risks, will go for it. There are always those types of schools. I expect he will do well at Va Tech, not great, but well. The administration there isn't pay attention and they have to figure out how to handle the football issues if Beamer doesn't retire this year (how Ohio State is 6th in the country in football after losing to this year's Va. Tech is amazing). It's football all the time and they have to get that going in the right direction. He will be an afterthought for his administration and should be able to get to about 7th or 8th place by year 4. Then he can pull the next maneuver at the next school where he lands that is desperate for a rebuild and willing to pay attention to something else.
-
Much of this is true, but there are a slew of programs that will never touch him and there are reasons why. Those that want to win and don't care about the risks, will go for it. There are always those types of schools. I expect he will do well at Va Tech, not great, but well. The administration there isn't pay attention and they have to figure out how to handle the football issues if Beamer doesn't retire this year (how Ohio State is 6th in the country in football after losing to this year's Va. Tech is amazing). It's football all the time and they have to get that going in the right direction. He will be an afterthought for his administration and should be able to get to about 7th or 8th place by year 4. Then he can pull the next maneuver at the next school where he lands that is desperate for a rebuild and willing to pay attention to something else.
All Buzz needs is one run to at least the Sweet 16 at VT and he'll be a top candidate for a much more highly sought after D1 job.
-
Bumstead can probably get T-Cubed's gig when he gets chit canned, aina?
-
Some people knew about the trash long before he slipped out the door in the middle night, they were warned, people just didn't want to listen. Just win baby......
Sounds kinda like Crean, aina?
-
All Buzz needs is one run to at least the Sweet 16 at VT and he'll be a top candidate for a much more highly sought after D1 job.
100% agreed. I'm just saying there are a number of programs that won't touch him with a ten foot pole. There are a number of others that will for any number of reasons.
-
Does this mean you are off of your not discussing Crean on Scoop hiatus, Jimmytelevision?
It takes a real man to run when the going gets tough.
-
"Trade" - Hmm..... inability to read figures of speech? Jamil Wilson was given a scholarship after Newbill had signed, which put us over the limit. Wilson, being taller, more seasoned as a junior, and of an elite, athletic build, fit a need for MU. He'd be an impact player right away, whereas Newbill was just another freshman guard on a team with a guard surplus. Adding Wilson would make this team much more competitive and give us a better chance to compete in the tournament. Newbill got the short end of the stick and was let go.
Not going into details, but suffice to say you don't have the whole story.
-
It strikes me that this thread simply confirms that we would all love to see DJ Newbill stomp Buzz at Va Tech. I hope he does. I thought he got a raw deal, whether I know the whole story or not. Plus, I want to see everyone stomp Buzz. I am vindictive like that, which is an admitted personality flaw of mine. So, I'll own it and wish Buzz the worst.
The rest is fluff. The guy (ie Buzz) has a schtick and he plays it well. Once he gets found out at Va Tech, or the flames get too high, he'll bail out for some other, no expectation rebuilding job. Good riddance to him.
In other news, I am glad to see DJ Newbill do well. That is not because it is a shot against Buzz or because of any other reason other than I always liked his attitude towards Marquette. I remember watching a video of him, where he was training for college, and he seemed so genuinely excited to be attending Marquette. Regardless of whose fault it was, I respect a kid that wanted to join the family but couldn't, and I will always wish him well.
-
Not going into details, but suffice to say you don't have the whole story.
The rest of the details are essentially meaningless. Buzz has a history of ditching recruits for better players. We came out on the better end with an elite 8 appearance. End of story.
-
The rest of the details are essentially meaningless. Buzz has a history of ditching recruits for better players. We came out on the better end with an elite 8 appearance. End of story.
He wasn't ditched.
-
The rest of the details are essentially meaningless. Buzz has a history of ditching recruits for better players. We came out on the better end with an elite 8 appearance. End of story.
Except the story you're telling isn't at all accurate.
-
There are a lot of posts here indicating that other posters are mistaken in one belief or other regarding Newbill, or inaccurate as to some conclusion, etc. that cause one to believe that other posters know all the details. They are both long gone, why doesn't somebody who purportedly knows all the facts just tell the story?
-
There are a lot of posts here indicating that other posters are mistaken in one belief or other regarding Newbill, or inaccurate as to some conclusion, etc. that cause one to believe that other posters know all the details. They are both long gone, why doesn't somebody who purportedly knows all the facts just tell the story?
Exactly. This whole, I know something you don't type of thing is super annoying. Just tell the story.
-
Exactly. This whole, I know something you don't type of thing is super annoying. Just tell the story.
There is nothing more to the story. Buzz dropped Newbill for Jamil. A few MU Insider's would like for people to believe differently, and have offered "explanations" for how it wasn't an outright "trade." Yet those sources got their information form the same PR spin zone that made the decision.
Some may say the staff discussed a possible prep school year with Newbill as the "excuse," PR spin, yet that was NEVER discussed with the Newbill camp. DJ was shocked and disappointed to not be able to come to MU. End of story.
-
Welcome back. Now, let us have somebody walk us through the story from beginning to end. Maybe even two somebodies, so we can see where the conflicts are and judge for ourselves.
-
There is nothing more to the story. Buzz dropped Newbill for Jamil. A few MU Insider's would like for people to believe differently, and have offered "explanations" for how it wasn't an outright "trade." Yet those sources got their information form the same PR spin zone that made the decision.
Some may say the staff discussed a possible prep school year with Newbill as the "excuse," PR spin, yet that was NEVER discussed with the Newbill camp. DJ was shocked and disappointed to not be able to come to MU. End of story.
You are wrong. Simple as that.
-
It strikes me that this thread simply confirms that we would all love to see DJ Newbill stomp Buzz at Va Tech.
I am completely agnostic on this.
Buzz built a very nice program at Marquette and gave me a lot of cheer-worthy moments. As a consumer, I was thoroughly entertained for most of his six seasons. And all the slimy things he did or supposedly did or thought about doing ... well, I don't see how they affect me or mine in the least. Buzz had a very poor final season and I'm glad he's gone because he clearly had reached a point where a split was necessary.
I was grateful for all Crean did, I am grateful for all Buzz did. And one day, after he leaves, I will be grateful for Wojo's contributions. Doesn't mean I can't poke fun at one and all, which I do often.
Newbill? Stuff happens. Has everybody seen the lists of transfers? There are hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds every year in college hoops. Heck, Wojo already has dumped a kid who committed to him. It appears Newbill has moved on nicely and made something of himself as a basketball player. I'm glad things worked out for him. Maybe being a fifth-year senior will make all the difference for him because he needed that extra season to mature as a player. Who knows?
Penn State vs. Virginia Tech? Unless it somehow affects Marquette's seeding for the 2015 NCAA tournament - ha! - I have no interest in it. I won't even know who won or lost if I don't see the score on Scoop. I appreciate how others might care, however. Whatever floats everybody's boat.
-
In Buzz's mind he was leaving as soon as the right program opened up. Trading Newbill for Jamil Wilson got him an elite 8, of which, was a resume booster for him to boost his value as a head coach. Selfish, yes, but that's what Buzz was. In that mindset, it makes all the sense in the world to do what he did.
Buzz not only knew that trading Newbill for Wilson would get him to the Elite 8 he also knew that Newbill would go to Southern Miss and then transfer to Penn State. Buzz knew not only that he would leave but that it would be for VT and that VT would then play Penn State in December of 2014 giving him a chance to do a total head trip on poor DJ. Buzz knows the final score of the upcoming Penn State game as he does all games on VT's schedule through the 2018 season. After that he is not completely sure. Strange, yes, but that's what Buzz was and is.
-
There are a lot of posts here indicating that other posters are mistaken in one belief or other regarding Newbill, or inaccurate as to some conclusion, etc. that cause one to believe that other posters know all the details. They are both long gone, why doesn't somebody who purportedly knows all the facts just tell the story?
The story isn't mine to tell. And as it hasn't been shared on a free site previously, I won't breach the trust of the person that shared it with me.
That said, when someone is purporting a false narrative, I will call it out as such.
-
I wonder how much moral outrage there would be if Newbill were a 9th man . I suspect it would be significantly less.
As annoying as Chico's may be, at least he's been consistent on this issue. The large majority around here supported Buzz back when Newbill got cut loose.
-
I wonder how much moral outrage there would be if Newbill were a 9th man . I suspect it would be significantly less.
As annoying as Chico's may be, at least he's been consistent on this issue. The large majority around here supported Buzz back when Newbill got cut loose.
There shouldn't be any outrage. We went to the elite 8, because we sent Newbill packing. I'll take that over and over again.
-
Except Newbill wasn't "sent packing." You can't bend the truth regardless of your justification.
-
Except Newbill wasn't "sent packing." You can't bend the truth regardless of your justification.
Kind of a semantical argument, no?
The kid wanted to come to MU, signed a letter of intent to come to MU and was planning to come to MU, only to be told that he was no longer wanted and MU would not honor his NLI. He wasn't "sent" anywhere because he never actually made it into campus.
-
There are a lot of posts here indicating that other posters are mistaken in one belief or other regarding Newbill, or inaccurate as to some conclusion, etc. that cause one to believe that other posters know all the details. They are both long gone, why doesn't somebody who purportedly knows all the facts just tell the story?
"I know something you don't know" is a favorite game of some around here.
-
"I know something you don't know" is a favorite game of some around here.
Typically played by those who have nothing intelligent to offer ....
Sincerely,
Sultan and His DJ Newbill Action Figure Collection
-
No Pakuni. My point is more to the story than that. You can say I'm playing a game. But im not. I don't pretend to know things that I don't know.
-
No Pakuni. My point is more to the story than that. You can say I'm playing a game. But im not. I don't pretend to know things that I don't know.
But really, there isn't more to the story. Whatever side discussions/deals/arrangement may have been made between the coaching staff and Newbill/his people, it still comes down to the fact he signed a letter of intent and MU declined to honor it.
I don't know if you're pretending something or not, because you often refuse to say what you claim to know ... just that you know something.
And yeah, it's a game, and you're not the only one to play it.
-
Mu82 nailed it,that is exactly how I feel about Crean,Buzz et al. Agnostic
-
Believe what you want to believe Pakuni. I am simply saying that Buzz made mistakes but was not dishonest with Newbill.
-
Believe what you want to believe Pakuni. I am simply saying that Buzz made mistakes but was not dishonest with Newbill.
When did ever I say he was dishonest with Newbill?
Christ, this doesn't have to be so difficult.
Newbill signed a letter of intent. MU chose not to honor it.
It's a simple story that people on both sides are trying to make more complicated than it need be with their claims of secret side deals and trades.
edit: Though, I have to add, I find it utterly laughable that you think you know enough about the situation - including, apparently, what was said between Buzz and Newbill - that you can say with certainty that no one was dishonest. You got these guys bugged or something?
-
You are wrong. Simple as that.
Okay - Let's hear your version and the source of the information. Additionally, Brew pointed out it was posted on a free site elsewhere, yet doesn't link where it was posted and instead chooses to remain anonymous about the details yet they've been made "public" elsewhere?
You lose credibility when you make statements that indicate you know what happened, then don't support your position with details of what did happen. Hell you don't even need to reveal the source, but if it is IWB (your usual source of information) - Well, he gets some bad information on occasion too. #donedeal?
-
IWB isn't my usual source of information.
-
When did ever I say he was dishonest with Newbill?
Christ, this doesn't have to be so difficult.
Newbill signed a letter of intent. MU chose not to honor it.
It's a simple story that people on both sides are trying to make more complicated than it need be with their claims of secret side deals and trades.
It's being made complicated because people are addressing Buzz's motivations and how Newbill was "ditched." I will just say this as my final statement. Newbill knew that not coming to the MU campus was potentially an option when he signed his NLI.
You can choose to believe that...or not.
-
When did ever I say he was dishonest with Newbill?
Christ, this doesn't have to be so difficult.
Newbill signed a letter of intent. MU chose not to honor it.
It's a simple story that people on both sides are trying to make more complicated than it need be with their claims of secret side deals and trades.
edit: Though, I have to add, I find it utterly laughable that you think you know enough about the situation - including, apparently, what was said between Buzz and Newbill - that you can say with certainty that no one was dishonest. You got these guys bugged or something?
So long ago I can't remember, but wasn't the deal supposed to be that DJ knew that MU might want him to go to a prep school if Jamil transferred in and that's why he never applied to MU? He declined, chose Southern Miss instead.
-
Okay - Let's hear your version and the source of the information. Additionally, Brew pointed out it was posted on a free site elsewhere, yet doesn't link where it was posted and instead chooses to remain anonymous about the details yet they've been made "public" elsewhere?
You lose credibility when you make statements that indicate you know what happened, then don't support your position with details of what did happen. Hell you don't even need to reveal the source, but if it is IWB (your usual source of information) - Well, he gets some bad information on occasion too. #donedeal?
BTW, talk about losing credibility. Didn't you say that you would "voluntarily go away if the majority of the board votes me off." And the majority voted "yes," yet here you are.
Just like the "moratoriums" you promised last year. Not worth the keyboard they were typed with I guess.
-
So long ago I can't remember, but wasn't the deal supposed to be that DJ knew that MU might want him to go to a prep school if Jamil transferred in and that's why he never applied to MU? He declined, chose Southern Miss instead.
This was the PR spin that was floated by the MU camp that a few in this thread are choosing to latch onto as Truth...(as in DJ knew there may be a chance not coming to MU was an option when he signed his NLI.) The truth is MU never once said anything to DJ or his camp anything about Prep School.
What 3-4 star kid signs an NLI with program with an out clause, thereby eliminating his ability to continue to entertain offers from other programs and essentially put him at risk of not being able to get into one of those programs at a later time in the event the original program decides they no longer want him?
-
BTW, talk about losing credibility. Didn't you say that you would "voluntarily go away if the majority of the board votes me off." And the majority voted "yes," yet here you are.
Just like the "moratoriums" you promised last year. Not worth the keyboard they were typed with I guess.
Kind of like you Sultan who "went on vacation" when Buzz totally FUBARED last season going 17-15 and not getting any tourney invite. Then when Buzz was given his powder, you made sure to start posting your support of Wojo while still lavishly praising Buzz. A true politician. Moratoriums are worthless anyhow, because they are frequently broken. I am guessing Ners still has not realized he was voted off.
By the way, wasn't the voting open to Nov. 25? Can't remember and too lazy to check. If it is Nov. 25, then you have a credibility problem based on your above statement. But of course, Sultan, you frequently shoot your mouth when you do not have all the facts, which is why so many desperately wait for it to happen again.
-
It's being made complicated because people are addressing Buzz's motivations and how Newbill was "ditched." I will just say this as my final statement. Newbill knew that not coming to the MU campus was potentially an option when he signed his NLI.
You can choose to believe that...or not.
Give Sultan a few more years to tell us the Newbill story. I mean, it's has been close to about 30 years ago and now all of these women are coming out against Bill Cosby saying he raped them back in the day. Perhaps Sultan is still in "sitting in the corner of the shower phase" of this whole Newbill story. Let him heal before he reopens his wounds or let the statute of limitations expire at least.
-
Give Sultan a few more years to tell us the Newbill story. I mean, it's has been close to about 30 years ago and now all of these women are coming out against Bill Cosby saying he raped them back in the day. Perhaps Sultan is still in "sitting in the corner of the shower phase" of this whole Newbill story. Let him heal before he reopens his wounds or let the statute of limitations expire at least.
I don't know if making fun of potential rape victims is the best way to establish your credibility. Kind of has the opposite effect in fact.
-
Most would agree, the Newbill exit was to make room for Jamal Wilson. While Newbill appears to be an awesome player Jamal was indispensible for a sweet sixteen and elite eight. I wouldn't trade Newill for Jamal.
-
I don't know if making fun of potential rape victims is the best way to establish your credibility. Kind of has the opposite effect in fact.
Not sure what you're talking about. I wasn't making fun of any of the victims, nor was that the intent. Clearly, Sultan is the butt of the joke for some crazy story he can't tell us about DJ Newbill.
-
Why is it the topics about our BBall alumni get sent to the superbar but hey if it's about a former recruit that never even set foot on campus then by all means that belongs in the hanging at the Al page.
-
Kind of like you Sultan who "went on vacation" when Buzz totally FUBARED last season going 17-15 and not getting any tourney invite. Then when Buzz was given his powder, you made sure to start posting your support of Wojo while still lavishly praising Buzz. A true politician. Moratoriums are worthless anyhow, because they are frequently broken. I am guessing Ners still has not realized he was voted off.
By the way, wasn't the voting open to Nov. 25? Can't remember and too lazy to check. If it is Nov. 25, then you have a credibility problem based on your above statement. But of course, Sultan, you frequently shoot your mouth when you do not have all the facts, which is why so many desperately wait for it to happen again.
He gave it up for Lent. Thought it was pretty clear.
-
Jamil coming to MU was well known in advance of its closure. The situation was held up because of a sports agent of Badger and Nike origins shopping Dunigan and Crittle after Kent's dismissal. (I posted this at the time)
Buzz wisely laid low while UCF didn't with Crittle and got in hot water. Newbill was swapped for someone else actually who both had the simiilar understanding. Confused communication between Monarch and Newbill's camp(s) led to a mess. I think most fans would prefer the swap and the plan at the time was for Newbill to hit prep school then MU as Vander was always leaving early (sophmore year at latest).
Tough business but Newbill had time for another choice. No difference morally to me as Saunders or Levin except one was very late and another was in a semester. MU82 nailed it.
All horrible but squirminess takes different forms. We only choose to see the side we want to see. Mayo and Notre Dame Prep and no chance of graduating is wrong. Lazar from ND Prep cleared after school started and with finishing no where near close to graduating is fine. T-shirt Gate squirmy. Three minor NCAA recruiting violations while on major probation were an accident. Half the team cited for being underage in a private party room but not drinking is a program out of control. Half the team cited for drug, alcohol, DUIs are kids being kids. #perspective
-
Buzz wisely laid low while UCF didn't with Crittle and got in hot water. Newbill was swapped for someone else actually who both had the simiilar understanding. Confused communication between Monarch and Newbill's camp(s) led to a mess. I think most fans would prefer the swap and the plan at the time was for Newbill to hit prep school then MU as Vander was always leaving early (sophmore year at latest).
I'll fill in the blank... if Newbill comes, Davante doesn't.
Buzz shouldn't have taken the NLI when he wanted to stash him at a prep school. Even with perfect communication, the odds of it working out aren't great.
-
I'll fill in the blank... if Newbill comes, Davante doesn't.
Buzz shouldn't have taken the NLI when he wanted to stash him at a prep school. Even with perfect communication, the odds of it working out aren't great.
Yep, and Uncle Larry wouldn't have let Zar, Todd, Gardner or Newbill in the front door of The Al.
-
All horrible but squirminess takes different forms. We only choose to see the side we want to see. Mayo and Notre Dame Prep and no chance of graduating is wrong. Lazar from ND Prep cleared after school started and with finishing no where near close to graduating is fine. T-shirt Gate squirmy. Three minor NCAA recruiting violations while on major probation were an accident. Half the team cited for being underage in a private party room but not drinking is a program out of control. Half the team cited for drug, alcohol, DUIs are kids being kids. #perspective
This nails it, good Doctor.
-
Jamil coming to MU was well known in advance of its closure. The situation was held up because of a sports agent of Badger and Nike origins shopping Dunigan and Crittle after Kent's dismissal. (I posted this at the time)
Buzz wisely laid low while UCF didn't with Crittle and got in hot water. Newbill was swapped for someone else actually who both had the simiilar understanding. Confused communication between Monarch and Newbill's camp(s) led to a mess. I think most fans would prefer the swap and the plan at the time was for Newbill to hit prep school then MU as Vander was always leaving early (sophmore year at latest).
Yep.
What isn't being said here is that Brad Forster gets involved when he had no clue what was talked about beforehand, and paints a picture using his limited knowledge. Also "Phillycoach" tried to publicly leverage Newbill into MU which made it impossible to move forward with the prep route.
Buzz screwed up completely by letting Newbill sign the NLI. That should have never occurred. However Doctor is right. Buzz knew about Jamil very early on. Newbill knew it wasn't a guaranty.
-
What isn't being said here is that Brad Forster gets involved when he had no clue what was talked about beforehand, and paints a picture using his limited knowledge. Also "Phillycoach" tried to publicly leverage Newbill into MU which made it impossible to move forward with the prep route.
There's plenty of blame to cast around regarding the Newbill situation. Buzz definitely deserves some of that, Forster too, but I don't think anyone deserves more blame than Stan Laws, aka "PhillyCoach".
-
There's plenty of blame to cast around regarding the Newbill situation. Buzz definitely deserves some of that, Forster too, but I don't think anyone deserves more blame than Stan Laws, aka "PhillyCoach".
You and Sultan seem to be closer on Newbill's back story. From my view, it seemed that there was always a backstory when Monarch was involved, whether true or not.
-
Yep, and Uncle Larry wouldn't have let Zar, Todd, Gardner or Newbill in the front door of The Al.
Wait, did Lazar graduate? For some reason, I thought he did.
-
Wait, did Lazar graduate? For some reason, I thought he did.
Nope. Left school right after the season ended to prep for the draft. He's not far away.
-
Nope. Left school right after the season ended to prep for the draft. He's not far away.
Yep, and another reason Uncle Larry was upset with subsequent NBAers who did the same thing under Buzz.
-
Yep, and another reason Uncle Larry was upset with subsequent NBAers who did the same thing under Buzz.
Which shows the idiocy of Larry's thinking. The college experience is intended to help thrust young adults toward their dream and passion in life. For 99.9% of high major basketball players, that dream is to develop themselves into an NBA caliber player, or play internationally and earn their living that way. When fringe NBA guys such as Lazar are on the cusp of being able to earn millions - yeah - I think it's okay for them to depart MU early and focus on high level skill training in advance of their "interviews" with the various NBA teams via their tryouts/individual workouts in advance of the draft.
-
Which shows the idiocy of Larry's thinking. The college experience is intended to help thrust young adults toward their dream and passion in life. For 99.9% of high major basketball players, that dream is to develop themselves into an NBA caliber player, or play internationally and earn their living that way. When fringe NBA guys such as Lazar are on the cusp of being able to earn millions - yeah - I think it's okay for them to depart MU early and focus on high level skill training in advance of their "interviews" with the various NBA teams via their tryouts/individual workouts in advance of the draft.
I have no trouble with students (athletes or not) leaving school without a degree when given the chance to begin a career doing something they love. There will be time to go back and earn a diploma.
-
You and Sultan seem to be closer on Newbill's back story. From my view, it seemed that there was always a backstory when Monarch was involved, whether true or not.
That is a damn good observation - one I never thought of beforehand. I never quite understood those who thought it was an injustice that he was let go. Commit and NCAA violation and then lie about it?
-
Hello Scoopers, glad to see you guys still have love for Dj. The past is the past, and as they say. "what don't kill you, should only make you stronger". This young man has defied the odds of a lot of inner city poverty stricken, drug/crime infested communities with dysfunctional families. If you guys saw the 20/20 piece they did on Strawberry Mansion High School. It was labeled one of the worst schools in the country along with the community. That didn't happen over night. But with a lot prayer, hard work, determination, and perseverance. This young man took the hand he was dealt and turned it into getting a college degree and having a very good college basketball playing career. The fact of the matter is this, DJ committed to Marquette the same night that West Virginia's Coach Bob Huggins offered him. He then Signed the NLI during the April signing period. Then a week before he was to leave for MU, Scott Monarch called me and stated that Buzz felt that Dj should Find another school because he wants to go in a different direction. Prep school was never an option for this kid. We were hurt but we moved on. Life is full of drastic changes, but it's not about what happens. It all about how you handle it. I must say Dj handled it like a knocked down boxer only to rise up and claim the championship belt. folks can speculate all the want about how it all went down. Buzz and for that matter not one person from MU has ever reached out to Dj, even until this very day to tell him that news. I had to bear the burden of telling a kid that his dream school reneged on their offer. That's life, and He understand that God has always been in control. We will always contemplate the what if. Dj could have helped them go to a final four or a national championship or helped MU lose every game. We will never know. But at the end of the day, this kid elevated his social status, from hood hoopster to a college graduate and student athlete...... God is Great...... and the saga continues.......... Blessings Philly Coach
-
Hello Scoopers, glad to see you guys still have love for Dj. The past is the past, and as they say. "what don't kill you, should only make you stronger". This young man has defied the odds of a lot of inner city poverty stricken, drug/crime infested communities with dysfunctional families. If you guys saw the 20/20 piece they did on Strawberry Mansion High School. It was labeled one of the worst schools in the country along with the community. That didn't happen over night. But with a lot prayer, hard work, determination, and perseverance. This young man took the hand he was dealt and turned it into getting a college degree and having a very good college basketball playing career. The fact of the matter is this, DJ committed to Marquette the same night that West Virginia's Coach Bob Huggins offered him. He then Signed the NLI during the April signing period. Then a week before he was to leave for MU, Scott Monarch called me and stated that Buzz felt that Dj should Find another school because he wants to go in a different direction. Prep school was never an option for this kid. We were hurt but we moved on. Life is full of drastic changes, but it's not about what happens. It all about how you handle it. I must say Dj handled it like a knocked down boxer only to rise up and claim the championship belt. folks can speculate all the want about how it all went down. Buzz and for that matter not one person from MU has ever reached out to Dj, even until this very day to tell him that news. I had to bear the burden of telling a kid that his dream school reneged on their offer. That's life, and He understand that God has always been in control. We will always contemplate the what if. Dj could have helped them go to a final four or a national championship or helped MU lose every game. We will never know. But at the end of the day, this kid elevated his social status, from hood hoopster to a college graduate and student athlete...... God is Great...... and the saga continues.......... Blessings Philly Coach
Classic example of a kid using basketball to better his situation. Sorry it didn't work out for him at MU, he's clearly a gifted scorer, hope he gets paid to play either here or overseas for a long time.
-
Yo Bro, someone's backyard is another's front yard. Glad DJ made the most of his opportunity. Still woulda loved seein' him wear the Warrior uni. Y'all got to experience the real Buzz, up close and personal, long before the rest of us. Hope Bumstead didn't let the door hit him where the good Lord split him, a'ina?
-
Great story. Glad to see a kid define his goals, stick to them through adversity and make something of himself.
Those kind of tales should be more publicized
-
Week DJ gets to have his revenge tomorrow. Best of luck to him. Hope he drops 40 on the hillbilly.
-
Hello Scoopers, glad to see you guys still have love for Dj. The past is the past, and as they say. "what don't kill you, should only make you stronger". This young man has defied the odds of a lot of inner city poverty stricken, drug/crime infested communities with dysfunctional families. If you guys saw the 20/20 piece they did on Strawberry Mansion High School. It was labeled one of the worst schools in the country along with the community. That didn't happen over night. But with a lot prayer, hard work, determination, and perseverance. This young man took the hand he was dealt and turned it into getting a college degree and having a very good college basketball playing career. The fact of the matter is this, DJ committed to Marquette the same night that West Virginia's Coach Bob Huggins offered him. He then Signed the NLI during the April signing period. Then a week before he was to leave for MU, Scott Monarch called me and stated that Buzz felt that Dj should Find another school because he wants to go in a different direction. Prep school was never an option for this kid. We were hurt but we moved on. Life is full of drastic changes, but it's not about what happens. It all about how you handle it. I must say Dj handled it like a knocked down boxer only to rise up and claim the championship belt. folks can speculate all the want about how it all went down. Buzz and for that matter not one person from MU has ever reached out to Dj, even until this very day to tell him that news. I had to bear the burden of telling a kid that his dream school reneged on their offer. That's life, and He understand that God has always been in control. We will always contemplate the what if. Dj could have helped them go to a final four or a national championship or helped MU lose every game. We will never know. But at the end of the day, this kid elevated his social status, from hood hoopster to a college graduate and student athlete...... God is Great...... and the saga continues.......... Blessings Philly Coach
Many folks here knew this, many others were in complete denial. DJ got screwed, which is a shame. For the staff not to talk to DJ directly is terrible, cowardly and unsurprising.
An article today about DJ and the former coach at Penn Live. Would have loved to have Buzz answer a question or two on it.
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/12/dj_newbills_journey_to_penn_st.html
-
Hello Scoopers, glad to see you guys still have love for Dj. The past is the past, and as they say. "what don't kill you, should only make you stronger". This young man has defied the odds of a lot of inner city poverty stricken, drug/crime infested communities with dysfunctional families. If you guys saw the 20/20 piece they did on Strawberry Mansion High School. It was labeled one of the worst schools in the country along with the community. That didn't happen over night. But with a lot prayer, hard work, determination, and perseverance. This young man took the hand he was dealt and turned it into getting a college degree and having a very good college basketball playing career. The fact of the matter is this, DJ committed to Marquette the same night that West Virginia's Coach Bob Huggins offered him. He then Signed the NLI during the April signing period. Then a week before he was to leave for MU, Scott Monarch called me and stated that Buzz felt that Dj should Find another school because he wants to go in a different direction. Prep school was never an option for this kid. We were hurt but we moved on. Life is full of drastic changes, but it's not about what happens. It all about how you handle it. I must say Dj handled it like a knocked down boxer only to rise up and claim the championship belt. folks can speculate all the want about how it all went down. Buzz and for that matter not one person from MU has ever reached out to Dj, even until this very day to tell him that news. I had to bear the burden of telling a kid that his dream school reneged on their offer. That's life, and He understand that God has always been in control. We will always contemplate the what if. Dj could have helped them go to a final four or a national championship or helped MU lose every game. We will never know. But at the end of the day, this kid elevated his social status, from hood hoopster to a college graduate and student athlete...... God is Great...... and the saga continues.......... Blessings Philly Coach
Thanks for again setting the story straight Philly Coach. Most of us know you have no reason to put any "spin" on the story, as did Buzz/MU to cover their a$$ for doing DJ dirty.
Great to see DJ is averaging 25ppg on 49% from the Field, and 50% shooting from 3 point line and 82% from the FT line. Looks like he will have a bright future in front of him whether in the NBA or elsewhere.
-
Thanks for again setting the story straight Philly Coach. Most of us know you have no reason to put any "spin" on the story, as did Buzz/MU to cover their a$$ for doing DJ dirty.
Ners, I am 100% confident that the multiple people I have talked to about this know more about this than you do. These include people connected to the basketball program that don't have any reason to protect Buzz. (Like, the same people who told me about Mayo's academic issues long before you knew about it.)
So be careful about who you believe here. I'm not saying you should automatically believe what I am saying here, but wholeheartedly endorsing the word of this guy is probably not a smart move on your part.
-
Ners, I am 100% confident that the multiple people I have talked to about this know more about this than you do. These include people connected to the basketball program that don't have any reason to protect Buzz. (Like, the same people who told me about Mayo's academic issues long before you knew about it.)
So be careful about who you believe here. I'm not saying you should automatically believe what I am saying here, but wholeheartedly endorsing the word of this guy is probably not a smart move on your part.
And where did those multiple people get their information from? You don't think Buzz had a story ready to spin/sell to those when this went down?
What's in it for Newbill's former coach and mentor to lie about the deal? Why as a kid would you sign an NLI with an option that said "Hey, we may want to stash you at a prep school for a year," when other high major programs were offering?
And you give me crap at times for the conspiracy theories I float?
-
As I have said before, Buzz was hardly blameless for this clusterf*ck.
Again, you and Chicos can choose to believe me...or not.
-
Fact: Not a single person here - including PhillyCoach and others' "inside" sources - know what was said between Buzz and Newbill.
You're all relying on second- (or third or fourth) hand accounts given to you by people who have plenty of motive to be less than completely honest.
-
Ners, I am 100% confident that the multiple people I have talked to about this know more about this than you do. These include people connected to the basketball program that don't have any reason to protect Buzz. (Like, the same people who told me about Mayo's academic issues long before you knew about it.)
So be careful about who you believe here. I'm not saying you should automatically believe what I am saying here, but wholeheartedly endorsing the word of this guy is probably not a smart move on your part.
+1
Fact: Not a single person here - including PhillyCoach and others' "inside" sources - know what was said between Buzz and Newbill.
You're all relying on second- (or third or fourth) hand accounts given to you by people who have plenty of motive to be less than completely honest.
And another +1
There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.
-
Bottom Line, Buzz screwed with DJ and his peeps, was traded for Jamil Wilson. Buzz was to immature to handle it properly, and was a really messy situation. It happens, DJ moved on, so did
Buzz(to a different school). I am sure there were worse things that Buzz did, this was one of them handled behind the scene that was wrong. Glad we have Wojo.
-
+1
And another +1
There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.
+1
And another +1
Duh, at this level of college sports the University has every reason to protect Buzz. IE. bad moral and ethical judgement and does't show the school and it's employee in a good light. Bad PR.....
There are many versions of this story. Everyone can believe what they want based on what they've heard. I know which version I believe. It isn't this one.
-
There's plenty of blame to cast around regarding the Newbill situation. Buzz definitely deserves some of that, Forster too, but I don't think anyone deserves more blame than Stan Laws, aka "PhillyCoach".
and why do i deserve blame? please explain since you know absolutely nothing.....
-
As I have said before, Buzz was hardly blameless for this clusterf*ck.
Again, you and Chicos can choose to believe me...or not.
Do you really believe that high major recruits coaches aren't actively involved and aware of what is going on in a kid's recruitment? Who do you think DJ leaned on for advice/guidance? Does DJ have a father? Often the coach becomes the father figure and a recruit shares a lot and actively involves their coach/mentor in the process.
Philly Coach is a hell of a lot more close to the situation - a direct connection to DJ - than any of the 3rd hand accounts people on the MU side of things get wind of.
It all starts with Buzz/Monarch - they come up with their spin on what happens
Share that with insiders
Who then share that with 3rd parties such as here.
Again, why would a kid sign an NLI, and eliminate his options to go to other high major schools if there were strings attached to signing the NLI (such as we might want to send you to prep school?) What vested interest does Philly Coach have to fabricate this story??
MU/Buzz stand a lot more to lose for engaging in a dirty recruiting process and of course want to have their story out with all the spin to protect against consequences. I can't believe how naive you are choosing to be on this matter.
Do you really think for a second if Jamil Wilson doesn't come to MU DJ isn't at MU?
-
I've addressed all of it before. Don' t need to do so again.
Again, you can choose to believe what I was told, or choose to believe PhillyCoach flat out, or as Pakuni says, believe there are elements of truth in both. Your choice.
-
I've addressed all of it before. Don' t need to do so again.
Again, you can choose to believe what I was told, or choose to believe PhillyCoach flat out, or as Pakuni says, believe there are elements of truth in both. Your choice.
Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was? Let me guess...you won't?
-
Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was? Let me guess...you won't?
Why would he? He has nothing to prove to anyone. He has a version of the story that he is choosing to believe, and probably enjoys having inside information. We also know that no matter what he tells you, it won't change your mind, so why waste the time.
-
Why would he? He has nothing to prove to anyone. He has a version of the story that he is choosing to believe, and probably enjoys having inside information. We also know that no matter what he tells you, it won't change your mind, so why waste the time.
LOL - Yea, I'm probably a little more inclined to believe DJ's coach and mentor, than I am what Sultan heard through at best a 2nd or 3rd party source that got their info from the coach who did the dirty deal. Again, what does DJ's coach have to gain for lying? Why would DJ sign an NLI with MU, which ends his ability to be recruited by other high majors - if he knew signing it had strings attached? Think DJ really wanted to have to go
And as for not sharing his side of the story - it's pretty cheesy to say things such as: That isn't how it went down...and then never reveal what did go down. I mean everyone here could start to make all kinds of statements pertaining to inside knowledge and then simply say - I'm not going to share because of X, Y and Z - but, you are wrong.
-
Can you again recount what you were told and what their proximity to the situation was? Let me guess...you won't?
Read the thread. Read other threads.
I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.
-
Read the thread. Read other threads.
I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.
Uh okay...a review of your posts in this thread is more vague commentary that doesn't articulate anything other than "Hey...I know what happened...but I can't reveal my source and won't retell what I know. But believe me....and not DJ's mentor and coach. LOL.
MU/Buzz spun that they discussed Prep School with DJ...how can that be proven/disproven? It's a he said/she said. Perfect alibi for Buzz. I'm still waiting for you or any others who deny Philly Coaches account to explain:
What do they have to gain 4 years later for sticking to their original story as to how it went down?
Why would DJ sign an NLI and in so doing close his recruitment from other high major programs - when he was being recruited by other high majors?
If DJ was so into MU and knew Prep School was an option - why didn't he just go to a Prep School for a year anyway...and then come to MU the next?? But instead he went to Southern Miss. Why?? Because he had no desire to go to Prep School. No thought of going to Prep School. And was completely caught off guard by Buzz doing him dirty.
Why in God's name does Vander wanting to turn pro early/as a sophomore have anything to do with this as Blackheart suggested? DJ and Vander were in the same freaking class year...
It reeks of a lot more B.S., on the side of Buzz/MU than on the Newbill side. But hey Sultan, whatever makes you feel better with regard to Buzz in this matter.
-
Santa's comin' down your chimney in 3 weeks if you believe Buzz didn't rip that offer outta DJ's paws
-
Read the thread. Read other threads.
I don't think it is necessary for me to constantly repeat the same refrains endlessly to get my point across.
I wish the guy you are talking to had that attitude toward a certain topic.
-
MU/Buzz spun that they discussed Prep School with DJ...how can that be proven/disproven? It's a he said/she said. Perfect alibi for Buzz. I'm still waiting for you or any others who deny Philly Coaches account to explain:
What do they have to gain 4 years later for sticking to their original story as to how it went down?
You call Philly Coach a mentor and a coach. Maybe he is, but he operates in the cesspool that is AAU basketball where "mentors" are often "handlers". Why stick to a story that totally exonerates him? Why try to paint himself as an innocent victim? Pretty good for one's street cred.
Riddle me this - if Buzz is such a dishonest guy with recruits how does he keep getting such good ones? Are Marquette and Virginia Tech so desirable that they recruit themselves?
-
Do you really think for a second if Jamil Wilson doesn't come to MU DJ isn't at MU?
Absolutely 100% without a doubt. Jamil to Marquette was in place well before any of the Newbill stuff.
and why do i deserve blame? please explain since you know absolutely nothing.....
I've said before that the story I believe has not been shared on a public forum and I won't be the one to change that.
-
You call Philly Coach a mentor and a coach. Maybe he is, but he operates in the cesspool that is AAU basketball where "mentors" are often "handlers". Why stick to a story that totally exonerates him? Why try to paint himself as an innocent victim? Pretty good for one's street cred.
Riddle me this - if Buzz is such a dishonest guy with recruits how does he keep getting such good ones? Are Marquette and Virginia Tech so desirable that they recruit themselves?
I'm not necessarily saying Buzz was dishonest - but dishonest coaches get good recruits every year.
-
I'm not necessarily saying Buzz was dishonest - but dishonest coaches get good recruits every year.
Dishonest in the lengths they go FOR recruits? No doubt. But if you're you're going to be dishonest TO recruits - that's a rep that will haunt a guy.
-
Ernie Kent was fired in mid-March. Players were looking to transfer immediately. Kenny Caldwell, a Chicago street runner for sports agent Mike Naiditch, began shopping three of the Chicago Mean Streets transfers, one of which, Josh Crittle, joined a slew of Chicago kids at UCF (including the Jordans). After a year's investigation, this led to a five year probation and a show-cause against UCF and Donnie Jones. This is and was well documented at the time and discussed on this board. No imaginary sources.
Because of the investigation, the smoke had to clear on Jamil as Oregon and the NCAA wanted to get under the flight of transfers. In Jamil's case, his family ran his AAU team so the conflict was easy to clear. He officially signed the end of June after his relatively quick release all things considered, after a month's delay. (Dunigan eventually went pro later in the summer, represented by Naiditch).
As for Newbill's primary mèntor, the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach. Apparently, this is where Newbill's story goes south as there was little or no communication between the parties.
Was it confusion, cold hearted treatment, poor communication...probably all of the above. Stan has filled in the blanks as he is way closer to the story. We will never know for sure or agree. Read more below from DJs camp. I think Monarch (and Buzz) screwed the pooch, but I do believe other understandings were made. Squirm-o-Meter recalibration, no different than Saunders or Levin. Fifty Shades of Grey.
Jay Wright has stashed recruits in Preps in the past, it is not unheard of in Philly. Btw, I have heard the Newbill part of this story via a Nova connection. As to the Naiditch side, let's just say he represents Enes Kanter who never made it to Kentucky (story below). (And we have discussed his Badger ties in the past as well).
Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).
Keep arguing...
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html?mode=jqm
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6453773
-
Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).
Correct you are...I was getting whiffs for some time and part of that was due to stories that we or parties representing our staff were pushing to lure him out IMO. That's tampering in my book, but there are ways to do it so you don't get in trouble and technically are within the letter of the law. I'm not naive to think it doesn't happen, but I don't have to like it one bit. I've never cared for how the DJ incident went down and the lack of communication by MU representatives to him and his family. College sports can be a shady business, no one is denying this, but so can a lot of business ventures in this world. At the end of the day, you need to be able to look people in the eye, give them a firm handshake, call it like it is and your word should mean something. If you are going to play the game of over recruiting, or stashing players at prep schools.....fine.....then be clear from day one with those people that you are doing this and make damn sure they communicate back that everyone understands the deal. We didn't do that. Not only did we not do that, we went radio silent completely.
That was the biggest disappointment to me and led to that incident. It ultimately worked out for DJ, but how many kids does it not work out for?
I'm out...
-
Ernie Kent was fired in mid-March. Players were looking to transfer immediately. Kenny Caldwell, a Chicago street runner for sports agent Mike Naiditch, began shopping three of the Chicago Mean Streets transfers, one of which, Josh Crittle, joined a slew of Chicago kids at UCF (including the Jordans). After a year's investigation, this led to a five year probation and a show-cause against UCF and Donnie Jones. This is and was well documented at the time and discussed on this board. No imaginary sources.
Because of the investigation, the smoke had to clear on Jamil as Oregon and the NCAA wanted to get under the flight of transfers. In Jamil's case, his family ran his AAU team so the conflict was easy to clear. He officially signed the end of June after his relatively quick release all things considered, after a month's delay. (Dunigan eventually went pro later in the summer, represented by Naiditch).
As for Newbill's primary mèntor, the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach. Apparently, this is where Newbill's story goes south as there was little or no communication between the parties.
Was it confusion, cold hearted treatment, poor communication...probably all of the above. Stan has filled in the blanks as he is way closer to the story. We will never know for sure or agree. Read more below from DJs camp. I think Monarch (and Buzz) screwed the pooch, but I do believe other understandings were made. Squirm-o-Meter recalibration, no different than Saunders or Levin. Fifty Shades of Grey.
Jay Wright has stashed recruits in Preps in the past, it is not unheard of in Philly. Btw, I have heard the Newbill part of this story via a Nova connection. As to the Naiditch side, let's just say he represents Enes Kanter who never made it to Kentucky (story below). (And we have discussed his Badger ties in the past as well).
Pick your own version but Monarch was in the middle of a lot of crap. Jamil for DJ wasn't the trade, though, although one could conclude that on the surface. Chicos and I even traded PMs on the Jamil transfer to MU before his semester ended as he was getting whiffs of the Jamil transfer earlier (although I believe his version involved the Chicago backstory).
I think this is a completely reasonable, and probably very accurate version of the story.
This is why I am hardly absolving Buzz here. Messing around with prep placements, conditional offers, poor communication, etc. Not a good way of doing business.
My problem is that certain posters are taking PhillyCoach's version of the story as gospel.
-
One thing I found interesting in the Oregon case was that it was okay under NCAA guidelines for Naiditch to advise Dunigan if no money exchanged hands (A pro agent from Highland Park knew Dunigan since 6th or 7th grade). Caldwell was a paid runner though so UCF was dinged which crossed the line big time. I think must of us here would see a conflict in both but not the NCAA. I think a family checking out availability would be and was considered legit.
As for the Prep school stashing, is that any different than the Indiana situation with the local AAU coach and Hanner-Perea or Bo with his own AAU team? All push the 50 shades of grey envelope. Recalibrate those Squirm-O-Meters as I suspect it will get worse, not better, once schools are allowed to pay these kids a salary.
-
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html?mode=jqm
It's hard to read that story and not root for the kid. It would have been great if he'd been a Warrior. But there's no question he's a fighter, and I really wish him the best.
-
I think this is a completely reasonable, and probably very accurate version of the story.
This is why I am hardly absolving Buzz here. Messing around with prep placements, conditional offers, poor communication, etc. Not a good way of doing business.
My problem is that certain posters are taking PhillyCoach's version of the story as gospel.
Yeah, sorry I'm going to take a kid's high school coaches account, and the kid's account as being a little more accurate than what you've heard through some 3rd party sources - who got their information from the spin Buzz/camp created. The fact Buzz was too big of coward to call the kid/coach on his own speaks volumes. Buzz knew he F'd the kid and didn't want to face the music and tell him, himself.
I know you want to believe MU all along was saying prep school was an option for DJ....but again:
If DJ was so into MU and knew Prep School was an option - why didn't he just go to a Prep School for a year anyway...and then come to MU the next?? But instead he went to Southern Miss.
Would you as a kid sign a "conditional NLI" that eliminates your ability to be recruited by other programs...knowing that the school you just committed to may not be fully committed to you??
Read the article Blackheart linked - it sure doesn't sound like DJ is the kind of kid to make up some B.S. - sounds like a GREAT young man, with good character.
But again, you can just bury your head in the sand on this as you did Buzz's coaching last season. ;D
-
As for Newbill's primary mèntor, the legendary John Hardette, Monarch had been working with him or he thought. Hardette died in May of that year, however, right after the signing of the LOI. Stan was DJ's high school coach.
Thanks, Doctor. I stand corrected, as I thought Philly Coach was DJ's AAU coach/mentor, not his high school coach. If Hardette was the guy truly handling DJ's recruitment and Philly Coach only stepped into the breach when Hardette died in May of DJ's senior year it's easy to see how things could have gotten screwed up. There was no reason for Philly Coach to be privy to understandings between MU and Hardette/DJ, but just because he wasn't privy to an understanding doesn't mean there wasn't one.
-
Thanks, Doctor. I stand corrected, as I thought Philly Coach was DJ's AAU coach/mentor, not his high school coach. If Hardette was the guy truly handling DJ's recruitment and Philly Coach only stepped into the breach when Hardette died in May of DJ's senior year it's easy to see how things could have gotten screwed up. There was no reason for Philly Coach to be privy to understandings between MU and Hardette/DJ, but just because he wasn't privy to an understanding doesn't mean there wasn't one.
Lenny - Why do you think Buzz didn't call DJ and or Philly Coach to tell them of his "decision?"
If the conspiracy theory being floated here by the MU camp was that they told DJ there was a chance they'd ask/want him to enroll in a Prep School - and if MU was DJ's dream school as DJ said - why wouldn't DJ just have followed through on the original understanding, enrolled in prep school, and come to MU the next season?
The article Blackheart linked - MU had no comment on - but plenty of published quotes from DJ and Stan Laws - you believe they were slandering MU and Buzz? Seems Buzz/MU could have put an end to that in the immediate aftermath of "going a different direction" if there were an upfront agreement.
Why would DJ officially end his recruitment, sign an NLI and eliminate opportunites to sign with other programs who didn't have strings attached to their offer - if he were aware of this upfront?
-
Squirm-o-Meter recalibration, no different than Saunders or Levin. Fifty Shades of Grey.
Amen. Don't like a little squirm, don't follow D1 or Marquette basketball - and that includes Al, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. This is big business, the big leagues. Holier than thou hypocrites who defend their guy's "squirm" while railing against another's are phonies.
-
I'm just going to put this out here:
http://www.libertycitypress.com/play-article/652-a-mentor-and-coach-returns-to-philly.html
-
I'm just going to put this out here:
http://www.libertycitypress.com/play-article/652-a-mentor-and-coach-returns-to-philly.html
Thanks for sharing Brew - what do you take away from this article?
You've been pretty hard on Philly Coach here (Stan Laws), and he appears to have done and be doing good work in his community. Why do you call his credibility into question per your previous posts?
-
I'm just going to put this out here:
http://www.libertycitypress.com/play-article/652-a-mentor-and-coach-returns-to-philly.html
So he worked with Southern Miss the year DJ Newbill attended Southern Miss. I am guessing there wasn't anything going on behind the scenes during that decision. Maybe that explains the reasons he had to "lie" (bend the truth, make his own player look like he was 100% innocent, etc.) about DJ Newbill and the story behind it all. His "motivation."
-
So he worked with Southern Miss the year DJ Newbill attended Southern Miss. I am guessing there wasn't anything going on behind the scenes during that decision. Maybe that explains the reasons he had to "lie" (bend the truth, make his own player look like he was 100% innocent, etc.) about DJ Newbill and the story behind it all. His "motivation."
LOL - Great logic Wades. Like DJ reneged on his MU commitment so he and Stan could go to Southern Miss together? Pretty sure it didn't go down like, Hey Buzz/MU - this is Stan and DJ - we no longer are interested in coming to Marquette. LOL. MU doesn't pull his offer, he's at MU. Stan going to USM with DJ has nothing to do with what happened at MU (other than them being told to look at different options elsewhere as to Buzz wanting to go in a different direction.)
-
Thanks for sharing Brew - what do you take away from this article?
You've been pretty hard on Philly Coach here (Stan Laws), and he appears to have done and be doing good work in his community. Why do you call his credibility into question per your previous posts?
Uh....did you read the article? He was dismissed from *an undefeated team* during the playoffs from his high school position, and ended up as an "assistant observation coach" at Southern Miss - the same place DJ enrolled.
You don't think that calls some of his actions into question?
-
LOL - Great logic Wades. Like DJ reneged on his MU commitment so he and Stan could go to Southern Miss together? Pretty sure it didn't go down like, Hey Buzz/MU - this is Stan and DJ - we no longer are interested in coming to Marquette. LOL. MU doesn't pull his offer, he's at MU. Stan going to USM with DJ has nothing to do with what happened at MU (other than them being told to look at different options elsewhere as to Buzz wanting to go in a different direction.)
Why are you so set on taking PhillyCoach's word as the absolute truth?
-
Uh....did you read the article? He was dismissed from *an undefeated team* during the playoffs from his high school position, and ended up as an "assistant observation coach" at Southern Miss - the same place DJ enrolled.
You don't think that calls some of his actions into question?
I did read the article. I don't find it crazy that he ended up at Southern Miss with DJ - that type of thing is somewhat common in high major hoops. Again, DJ is never at Southern Miss if MU doesn't pull his offer...
Once his recruitment opened back up as a result, the fact his mentor and coach ended up at the same school DJ enrolled it - not ground shattering scandal as it has happened over the years.
I realize you are grasping for straws as what you "knew" wasn't accurate and of course came from the MU side of the story/MU spin. MU was extremely quiet over the matter and had virtually no comments on it at any point. Why? Because their was virtually nothing they could say that would absolve Buzz of what he did.
-
Why are you so set on taking PhillyCoach's word as the absolute truth?
He's a hell of a lot closer to the situation than you are. He's quoted publicly multiple times, along with DJ about how it went down. Doubt they'd slander themselves in the media. Meanwhile, MU says nothing to deny what they've said.
-
I did read the article. I don't find it crazy that he ended up at Southern Miss with DJ - that type of thing is somewhat common in high major hoops. Again, DJ is never at Southern Miss if MU doesn't pull his offer...
Once his recruitment opened back up as a result, the fact his mentor and coach ended up at the same school DJ enrolled it - not ground shattering scandal as it has happened over the years.
I realize you are grasping for straws as what you "knew" wasn't accurate and of course came from the MU side of the story/MU spin. MU was extremely quiet over the matter and had virtually no comments on it at any point. Why? Because their was virtually nothing they could say that would absolve Buzz of what he did.
I'm not grasping at anything. I think Dr. Blackheart pretty much hit the nail on the head. That certainly doesn't absolve Buzz of anything - especially the stashing at a prep school and the lack of communication. I simply don't think you should be playing those types of games because it can blow up in your face...just like it did here.
But it also doesn't negate what I have been saying all along. That Newbill signed the NLI knowing that Jamil could be (or even likely *would be) coming to MU and the prep school issue was brought up. Sorry but I am not going to completely take the word of an unemployed basketball coach who SOMEHOW ends up as an assistant of some sort at the same school were his star player ends up playing.
I mean, come on...
-
He's a hell of a lot closer to the situation than you are. He's quoted publicly multiple times, along with DJ about how it went down. Doubt they'd slander themselves in the media. Meanwhile, MU says nothing to deny what they've said.
MU hasn't said anything because what they did was "squirmy" and unprofessional. Laying low was the best option.
What I am saying is that MU did wrong. But that doesn't mean that what Laws is saying is the absolute truth.
-
I'm not grasping at anything. I think Dr. Blackheart pretty much hit the nail on the head. That certainly doesn't absolve Buzz of anything - especially the stashing at a prep school and the lack of communication. I simply don't think you should be playing those types of games because it can blow up in your face...just like it did here.
But it also doesn't negate what I have been saying all along. That Newbill signed the NLI knowing that Jamil could be (or even likely *would be) coming to MU and the prep school issue was brought up. Sorry but I am not going to completely take the word of an unemployed basketball coach who SOMEHOW ends up as an assistant of some sort at the same school were his star player ends up playing.
I mean, come on...
All this is fine....but...again DJ didn't bail on MU. MU bailed on him. He would have been at MU (without Stan Laws) had MU not bailed. Stan - if you want to think stood to benefit by DJ going to USM - would have been happy about MU's decision to pull their offer. Nowhere, at any point, anywhere did Stan ever appear anything but blindsided by it, happy about it - much like DJ. It wasn't as if Stan was working out a deal with USM, got that wrapped up, and then pulled DJ from MU in order to get his gig at USM.
And as for the prep school alibi - that's all it is. Nobody other than DJ, Stan, Buzz, Monarch would know what was said. We have one side saying it never happened - the other - radio silent. And again, if DJ knew all along prep school was an option - once MU pulled his offer - why did he just not continue on to prep school, and come to his DREAM SCHOOL the next year?
-
Okay...I'm going to put a little timeline together.
February 2010: Stan Laws fired from Strawberry Mansion (http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/-8563081453566400395/piaa-aa-boys-hoops-championship-can-south-fayette-continue-magical-playoff-run-against-strawberry-mansion/)
There's never been a full account of what happened here, but PhillyCoach was fired in the middle of a 23-0 season from Strawberry Mansion during DJ Newbill's senior year. It was alluded to in the article I posted above (get back to that later) but the bottom line for me is if you get fired when your team is 23-0, you are probably doing things off the court or at least away from the spotlight that you probably shouldn't be doing.
March 17, 2010: Ernie Kent Fired at Oregon (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5001481)
Because of the investigation, the smoke had to clear on Jamil as Oregon and the NCAA wanted to get under the flight of transfers. In Jamil's case, his family ran his AAU team so the conflict was easy to clear. He officially signed the end of June after his relatively quick release all things considered, after a month's delay.
I was getting whiffs for some time and part of that was due to stories that we or parties representing our staff were pushing to lure him out IMO. That's tampering in my book, but there are ways to do it so you don't get in trouble and technically are within the letter of the law.
April 14, 2010: Newbill Signs With Marquette (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-14-3248413258_x.htm)
So we know Marquette was (for better or worse) involved with Jamil ahead of time, and Kent had been fired a month before Newbill signed. I'm not saying Buzz is blameless, but by the time Newbill signed, the above posts indicate the staff was already planning on Jamil Wilson transferring. That's how we can be confident that Laws' story that it was a DJ-for-Jamil trade is false. Also, this definitely reflects poorly on the now-departed coaching staff.
May 18, 2010: John Hardnett Dies (http://articles.philly.com/2010-05-19/sports/24961069_1_hoops-sessions-guys)
Hardnett was somewhat the godfather of Philly hoops, but more than that he was very, very close with DJ Newbill. Let's look at some pertinent quotes from this story (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html) posted above on Newbill's relationship with Hardnett:
(Chuck) Ellis, who worked under legendary Philadelphia basketball guru John Hardnett, received word of Newbill’s situation and introduced the two to each other when Newbill was in seventh grade.
Hardnett had mentored some of the most notable basketball players to come out of Philly in the past few decades, including Aaron McKie, Mardy Collins, Dionte Christmas and Doug Overton.
Newbill said Hardnett assumed a father-figure role in taking him under his wing.
“Being introduced to John, I started meeting guys like Mardy Collins that actually made it,” Newbill said. “Going to workouts growing up and you’re seeing guys like Nate Robinson, John Salmons and guys out of Philly that actually made it out…it kind of lets you see, ‘All right, this can happen. This can come true if you keep working.’ ”
Newbill began to stand out as one of the best players in the city as he grew older, training with Hardnett and Ellis several times a week while in-season and almost every day during the summer.
The milestones he reached while at Strawberry Mansion High School are extensive. In his senior season, the guard averaged 24.2 points and nine rebounds per game — scoring 64 points in a single game once — was named Public League Player-of-the-Year, a McDonald’s All-American candidate and led his team to a PIAA Class AA state championship in 2010 at the Bryce Jordan Center.
Newbill said Hardnett was a common denominator for his success, as he helped him understand basketball wasn’t just a game and could be beneficial to his life as a whole.
“[John taught me] basketball can take you places you would never imagine and it could help you with things you probably would have never done before,” Newbill said.
Hardnett was never able to see his latest prodigy make it to the next level, however, as the long-time mentor died in May of 2010.
Newbill was shaken by the unexpected death of the 56-year-old. Yet, Ellis said the values instilled in Newbill by Hardnett — along with his former apprentices, themselves — helped the transitioning player through the tough time.
Newbill knew Hardnett since the 7th grade and regarded him as a father figure. When it came to basketball, this was the guy who taught him the game, guided his path, and helped him make all his decisions. Suddenly, that mentor was gone. So who steps to the forefront of the recruitment? His unemployed high school coach, Stan Laws.
Also, there was always the prep school rumor:
So long ago I can't remember, but wasn't the deal supposed to be that DJ knew that MU might want him to go to a prep school if Jamil transferred in and that's why he never applied to MU? He declined, chose Southern Miss instead.
I think most fans would prefer the swap and the plan at the time was for Newbill to hit prep school then MU as Vander was always leaving early (sophmore year at latest).
Also "Phillycoach" tried to publicly leverage Newbill into MU which made it impossible to move forward with the prep route.
There's a ton of smoke around that old prep school fire story. Maybe because the involvement on DJ's end came from someone who can no longer tell that part of the story?
June 29-30, 2010: DJ Newbill released from LOI (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20874.msg220094#msg220094) and Jamil Wilson Transfers to Marquette (http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/063010aab.html)
Here we come to the alleged "swap", which was always the story Stan Laws tried to spin, often using Brad Forster, a local Philly Marquette grad, as the mouthpiece. But if Jamil was already coming before DJ even signed we know it wasn't a swap. It looks that way. We all thought that was the case, myself included, but those most connected at the time knew the two things were unrelated.
July 19, 2010: DJ Newbill & Dwayne Davis Commit to Southern Miss (http://articles.philly.com/2010-07-19/sports/24970478_1_southern-miss-summer-school-classes-marquette)
Stan Laws takes two kids to Southern Miss, both commit, and he ends up getting a job. Under NCAA rules, you can't hire a family member, but you can hire a fired high school basketball coach. You can even make up a silly position like "Assistant Observation Coach" if it gets you two kids that contribute (Newbill was named to the C-USA all-freshman team in 2011, Davis led USM in scoring in 2013).
A couple years later, Newbill is back in Pennsylvania at Penn State, and Laws is back in Philly working at a school notorious for cheating (http://citypaper.net/Cover/How-Pennsylshyvania-schools-erased-a-cheating-scandal/) that has since been shut down and isn't exactly popular amongst the students (http://thenotebook.org/content/walter-d-palmer-leadership-learning-partners-charter-school).
So what do I take away from that article? Laws got fired under questionable circumstances. He took Newbill & Davis to Southern Miss and got hired to a position that most schools probably don't have and wouldn't surprise me if no longer exists at USM. And now that both Newbill & Davis are gone, so is Laws.
-
Okay...I'm going to put a little timeline together.
February 2010: Stan Laws fired from Strawberry Mansion (http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/-8563081453566400395/piaa-aa-boys-hoops-championship-can-south-fayette-continue-magical-playoff-run-against-strawberry-mansion/)
There's never been a full account of what happened here, but PhillyCoach was fired in the middle of a 23-0 season from Strawberry Mansion during DJ Newbill's senior year. It was alluded to in the article I posted above (get back to that later) but the bottom line for me is if you get fired when your team is 23-0, you are probably doing things off the court or at least away from the spotlight that you probably shouldn't be doing.
March 17, 2010: Ernie Kent Fired at Oregon (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5001481)
April 14, 2010: Newbill Signs With Marquette (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-14-3248413258_x.htm)
So we know Marquette was (for better or worse) involved with Jamil ahead of time, and Kent had been fired a month before Newbill signed. I'm not saying Buzz is blameless, but by the time Newbill signed, the above posts indicate the staff was already planning on Jamil Wilson transferring. That's how we can be confident that Laws' story that it was a DJ-for-Jamil trade is false. Also, this definitely reflects poorly on the now-departed coaching staff.
May 18, 2010: John Hardnett Dies (http://articles.philly.com/2010-05-19/sports/24961069_1_hoops-sessions-guys)
Hardnett was somewhat the godfather of Philly hoops, but more than that he was very, very close with DJ Newbill. Let's look at some pertinent quotes from this story (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html) posted above on Newbill's relationship with Hardnett:
Newbill knew Hardnett since the 7th grade and regarded him as a father figure. When it came to basketball, this was the guy who taught him the game, guided his path, and helped him make all his decisions. Suddenly, that mentor was gone. So who steps to the forefront of the recruitment? His unemployed high school coach, Stan Laws.
Also, there was always the prep school rumor:
There's a ton of smoke around that old prep school fire story. Maybe because the involvement on DJ's end came from someone who can no longer tell that part of the story?
June 29-30, 2010: DJ Newbill released from LOI (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20874.msg220094#msg220094) and Jamil Wilson Transfers to Marquette (http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/063010aab.html)
Here we come to the alleged "swap", which was always the story Stan Laws tried to spin, often using Brad Forster, a local Philly Marquette grad, as the mouthpiece. But if Jamil was already coming before DJ even signed we know it wasn't a swap. It looks that way. We all thought that was the case, myself included, but those most connected at the time knew the two things were unrelated.
July 19, 2010: DJ Newbill & Dwayne Davis Commit to Southern Miss (http://articles.philly.com/2010-07-19/sports/24970478_1_southern-miss-summer-school-classes-marquette)
Stan Laws takes two kids to Southern Miss, both commit, and he ends up getting a job. Under NCAA rules, you can't hire a family member, but you can hire a fired high school basketball coach. You can even make up a silly position like "Assistant Observation Coach" if it gets you two kids that contribute (Newbill was named to the C-USA all-freshman team in 2011, Davis led USM in scoring in 2013).
A couple years later, Newbill is back in Pennsylvania at Penn State, and Laws is back in Philly working at a school notorious for cheating (http://citypaper.net/Cover/How-Pennsylshyvania-schools-erased-a-cheating-scandal/) that has since been shut down and isn't exactly popular amongst the students (http://thenotebook.org/content/walter-d-palmer-leadership-learning-partners-charter-school).
So what do I take away from that article? Laws got fired under questionable circumstances. He took Newbill & Davis to Southern Miss and got hired to a position that most schools probably don't have and wouldn't surprise me if no longer exists at USM. And now that both Newbill & Davis are gone, so is Laws.
That's a nice timeline Brew - and it raises some good points. My question: Why does MU sign DJ to an NLI in April then, knowing all along they will have Jamil and be oversigned? Why not allow DJ to keep his recruitment open, see how things shake out with Jamil/Oregon - and if that fell through - then sign DJ in early July? MU was DJ's dream school - told his friend as much prior to the start of his Senior year of playing. If chances are good you can go play at your dream school, but dream school needs to take a wait see approach about another player - why not keep your recruitment open, see how it transpires (especially, if as you suggest Stan Laws had a plan in place to take DJ and the other kid to USM - they have a fall back plan), and avoid all the drama in the first place?
The whole notion of "Prep School" being an option was a convenient excuse that nobody could really refute - a classic he said/she said - the only parties that really knew: Buzz, Monarch, DJ and Laws/Hardnett.
Why do you think Buzz didn't personally call Newbill to tell him the news? Wouldn't you think as a grown man, you at least owed the kid an explanation? In my opinion, he had Monarch do the dirty work (make the call), because Buzz didn't want to do it himself - as he knew it was B.S.
-
And as for the prep school alibi - that's all it is. Nobody other than DJ, Stan, Buzz, Monarch would know what was said. We have one side saying it never happened - the other - radio silent. And again, if DJ knew all along prep school was an option - once MU pulled his offer - why did he just not continue on to prep school, and come to his DREAM SCHOOL the next year?
Buzz and Monarch cannot and won't talk. Blackheart mentioned above that it always seemed like Monarch was in the middle of the more questionable dealings. Again, I'm not saying Buzz and Monarch did the right thing, but there absolutely IS somebody else that would know. Sadly, John Hardnett also cannot talk.
It's all about being careful in whom you trust. Stan got fired in the middle of a perfect season for unknown reasons, was suddenly the primary contact for DJ's recruitment after Hardnett passed away, and convinced two of his former players to go to Southern Miss while at the same time getting off the unemployment line. If you think that's all coincidence, well, I guess that's your prerogative. But if you read the publicly written articles I linked above, none of that would be in dispute.
-
Buzz and Monarch cannot and won't talk. Blackheart mentioned above that it always seemed like Monarch was in the middle of the more questionable dealings. Again, I'm not saying Buzz and Monarch did the right thing, but there absolutely IS somebody else that would know. Sadly, John Hardnett also cannot talk.
It's all about being careful in whom you trust. Stan got fired in the middle of a perfect season for unknown reasons, was suddenly the primary contact for DJ's recruitment after Hardnett passed away, and convinced two of his former players to go to Southern Miss while at the same time getting off the unemployment line. If you think that's all coincidence, well, I guess that's your prerogative. But if you read the publicly written articles I linked above, none of that would be in dispute.
I could go along with your line of thinking: IF DJ/Stan re-neged on MU. But it was MU who pulled the offer/found a way out of it...and then DJ/Stan (his new mentor and high school coach), then explored the best available options late in the game that summer...
Oh well. I'll let you have the last word on it. Whatever the case we all can agree it was a clusterf*ck and recruiting practice that none would like to see repeated.
-
That's a nice timeline Brew - and it raises some good points. My question: Why does MU sign DJ to an NLI in April then, knowing all along they will have Jamil and be oversigned? Why not allow DJ to keep his recruitment open, see how things shake out with Jamil/Oregon - and if that fell through - then sign DJ in early July? MU was DJ's dream school - told his friend as much prior to the start of his Senior year of playing. If chances are good you can go play at your dream school, but dream school needs to take a wait see approach about another player - why not keep your recruitment open, see how it transpires (especially, if as you suggest Stan Laws had a plan in place to take DJ and the other kid to USM - they have a fall back plan), and avoid all the drama in the first place?
The whole notion of "Prep School" being an option was a convenient excuse that nobody could really refute - a classic he said/she said - the only parties that really knew: Buzz, Monarch, DJ and Laws/Hardnett.
Why do you think Buzz didn't personally call Newbill to tell him the news? Wouldn't you think as a grown man, you at least owed the kid an explanation? In my opinion, he had Monarch do the dirty work (make the call), because Buzz didn't want to do it himself - as he knew it was B.S.
The reasons I put this together the way I did was to share as much as I could without telling someone else's story for them. It's not to exonerate Buzz. There are a few more details I have heard that are not mine to share.
Stephen A Smith wrote an article on Hartnett (http://articles.philly.com/2010-05-23/sports/24958650_1_sonny-hill-league-potpourri-stars) shortly after he passed. It largely characterizes him as the godfather of Philadelphia hoops. It wasn't just Newbill he was close to, but guys like Aaron McKie, Bruiser Flint, Allen Iverson, Jay Wright, Phil Martelli, pretty much a who's who of Philadelphia basketball.
Buzz shouldn't have taken the LOI. Buzz shouldn't have released Newbill from it within a day of announcing Jamil's transfer. The two may have been unrelated, but it was a foolish move by an inexperienced coach. Buzz shouldn't have let Monarch handle the whole thing.
If we've learned one thing about Buzz, it's that he's like a great chess player, always looking 2-3 moves ahead. He was always keeping his options open, setting himself up for bigger and better things. Goodman's article this summer told us as much.
I think the toughest thing about DJ Newbill's story is that so often, he was surrounded by people that saw more what they could get out of him rather than thinking about his best interest. I don't think Stan Laws is the only person in this story that wanted to use DJ to get bigger and better things. I really hope the best for the kid and hope he is surrounding himself with more trustworthy people these days.
-
Logical conclusion: Hardnett wanted MU for DJ and was OK with the prep school route. DJ was OK with it too as MU was his "dream school". Hardnett dies, enter Philly coach (the guy who did something squirmy enough during a 23-0 season to get fired from his NON PAYING coaching gig). He puts the kibosh on the prep school idea and packages DJ and another kid to Southern Miss for a paycheck for himself while he plays the victim, knowing MU can't comment. And useful idiots like Brad Forster and Chico can't wait to tell his BS Wilson for Newbill "trade" story.
-
I could go along with your line of thinking: IF DJ/Stan re-neged on MU. But it was MU who pulled the offer/found a way out of it...and then DJ/Stan (his new mentor and high school coach), then explored the best available options late in the game that summer...
Oh well. I'll let you have the last word on it. Whatever the case we all can agree it was a clusterf*ck and recruiting practice that none would like to see repeated.
To the former, as I said above, those aren't my details to share.
To the latter, you are 100%, dead to odds correct. There were problems with that one right from the start.
-
Logical conclusion: Hardnett wanted MU for DJ and was OK with the prep school route. DJ was OK with it too as MU was his "dream school". Hardnett dies, enter Philly coach (the guy who did something squirmy enough during a 23-0 season to get fired from his NON PAYING coaching gig). He puts the kibosh on the prep school idea and packages DJ and another kid to Southern Miss for a paycheck for himself while he plays the victim, knowing MU can't comment. And useful idiots like Brad Forster and Chico can't wait to tell his BS Wilson for Newbill "trade" story.
Interesting. Here may be the story we've all been looking for:
http://onwardstate.com/2014/12/03/the-marquette-connection-dj-newbill-and-the-scholarship-that-wasnt/
In my guess - I suspect the first time DJ ever heard about Prep School suggestion was at the time MU took away his scholarship. There was no reason for DJ to sign an NLI, take himself off the market at that time with other high-majors being interested, if he felt it wasn't legit/ #donedeal.
-
Logical conclusion: Hardnett wanted MU for DJ and was OK with the prep school route. DJ was OK with it too as MU was his "dream school". Hardnett dies, enter Philly coach (the guy who did something squirmy enough during a 23-0 season to get fired from his NON PAYING coaching gig). He puts the kibosh on the prep school idea and packages DJ and another kid to Southern Miss for a paycheck for himself while he plays the victim, knowing MU can't comment. And useful idiots like Brad Forster and Chico can't wait to tell his BS Wilson for Newbill "trade" story.
There is nothing in here I would disagree with.
-
Logical conclusion: Hardnett wanted MU for DJ and was OK with the prep school route. DJ was OK with it too as MU was his "dream school". Hardnett dies, enter Philly coach (the guy who did something squirmy enough during a 23-0 season to get fired from his NON PAYING coaching gig). He puts the kibosh on the prep school idea and packages DJ and another kid to Southern Miss for a paycheck for himself while he plays the victim, knowing MU can't comment. And useful idiots like Brad Forster and Chico can't wait to tell his BS Wilson for Newbill "trade" story.
Lenny
Brew's story is pure horsesh1t.
-
I could go along with your line of thinking: IF DJ/Stan re-neged on MU. But it was MU who pulled the offer/found a way out of it...and then DJ/Stan (his new mentor and high school coach), then explored the best available options late in the game that summer...
It took Philly Coach less than three weeks to sell his 2 players and himself to S Mississippi. Logic says that he had DJ renege from the prep school agreement. He knew MU had screwed up with the "conditional" NLI and would keep their mouths shut. He could be the good guy even as he leveraged (sold) his players. He even got naïve MU "fans" (Forster, Chico, etc.) to carry his water. Perfect.
-
Lenny
Brew's story is pure horsesh1t.
When you consider Newbill committed to MU on February 1 of 2010 - yes - it does call into question the timeline offered. Of course you can't sign an NLI till April 15 (the spring signing date), but as you will see from The Source himself (Ganzer) this deal was done in February - well before Ernie Kent was cut loose.
http://marquette.scout.com/story/943278-stan-laws-larry-waiters-on-dj-newbill
-
Lenny
Brew's story is pure horsesh1t.
I'm a fan Crash, but you'll have to do better than that. What's your timeline/story?
-
Buzz shouldn't have taken the LOI. Buzz shouldn't have released Newbill from it within a day of announcing Jamil's transfer. The two may have been unrelated, but it was a foolish move by an inexperienced coach. Buzz shouldn't have let Monarch handle the whole thing.
OK, allow me to call BS here.
Buzz was not an inexperienced coach in the summer of 2010. By that time he'd spent two seasons as head coach at a major program, another season as head coach at a small program, and 14 years as an assistant coach at programs big and small. Despite his "Aw shucks, I ain't too smart" act, he is not some naive rube, and he wasn't in 2010.
Regardless of whose version of events you choose to believe, it's not credible to think Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing ... that he was just some newbie who innocently bumbled into a tough situation.
Also not credible: Buzz "letting" Monarch handle the whole thing. Monarch, lackey that he is, did as he was instructed.
-
OK, allow me to call BS here.
Buzz was not an inexperienced coach in the summer of 2010. By that time he'd spent two seasons as head coach at a major program, another season as head coach at a small program, and 14 years as an assistant coach at programs big and small. Despite his "Aw shucks, I ain't too smart" act, he is not some naive rube, and he wasn't in 2010.
Regardless of whose version of events you choose to believe, it's not credible to think Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing ... that he was just some newbie who innocently bumbled into a tough situation.
Also not credible: Buzz "letting" Monarch handle the whole thing. Monarch, lackey that he is, did as he was instructed.
Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.
-
Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.
You would think a guy who knows all the Presidents (even that Grover Cleveland was in office twice) would know how to handle a recruiting mishap.
What I take away from this is that Buzz a scumbag. Yes, those first 5 years were incredible and I'm extremely happy that we had the success that we did, but I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.
-
You would think a guy who knows all the Presidents (even that Grover Cleveland was in office twice) would know how to handle a recruiting mishap.
What I take away from this is that Buzz a scumbag. Yes, those first 5 years were incredible and I'm extremely happy that we had the success that we did, but I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.
Recruiting is a dirty business. I'm not sure that anyone willing to get deep into it will ever come out completely clean.
-
Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.
Buzz had been coaching Division I basketball for about 15 years by 2010, including six seasons at the high major level. He was not new to the recruiting process, and suggesting that what happened here was a result of inexperience lets him off way too easily.
He screwed up and should have known better. And that's true whether you believe his actions were deliberate and callous, or what happened was simply the result of a misunderstanding.
-
Recruiting is a dirty business. I'm not sure that anyone willing to get deep into it will ever come out completely clean.
This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory. Either way its unsavory.
-
This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory. Either way its unsavory.
Plus a lot. #adultsusingkids
-
This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory. Either way its unsavory.
Yep. No doubt about that.
-
I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.
The guy who pole-axed Gabe Levin before he coached his first game at MU? OK.
-
The guy who pole-axed Gabe Levin before he coached his first game at MU? OK.
Where in the world did this come from? MU gor Ellenson, and there is a log jam in the front court next year. Kid wanted to play plus MU wasn't over on schollies
-
Where in the world did this come from? MU gor Ellenson, and there is a log jam in the front court next year. Kid wanted to play plus MU wasn't over on schollies
I think the point Lenny is making is not to christen Wojo just because he's our guy now. We did the same to Buzz when Crean left, the truth is all these guys are going to have to get their hands a little dirty when it comes to recruiting.
It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Crean, K, Cal, Izzo, Bo, or Wojo, getting high major players and building a winning roster requires coaches to deal with handlers, family members, coaches, and shoe companies that all have their own agendas.
I love Wojo, but be careful putting him on a pedestal he can't live up to.
-
I think the point Lenny is making is not to christen Wojo just because he's our guy now. We did the same to Buzz when Crean left, the truth is all these guys are going to have to get their hands a little dirty when it comes to recruiting.
It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Crean, K, Cal, Izzo, Bo, or Wojo, getting high major players and building a winning roster requires coaches to deal with handlers, family members, coaches, and shoe companies that all have their own agendas.
I love Wojo, but be careful putting him on a pedestal he can't live up to.
Bingo. If you like the guy, you look the other way a bit. I liked Buzz. Think I'm gonna like Wojo too.
-
I just want to share a quote from DJ Newbill, because apparently he is lying.....
“After the school year was over, it was time for me start with the paperwork and getting into the school…then I got a phone call and Buzz was telling me…actually he called my high school coach and he told me that they were gonna take my scholarship and use it to go another route. They wanted me to go to prep school and recruit me all over again for the following year because they had given out too many scholarships.”
DJ's other coach....also is lying...
"I understand it's a business and you're trying to do the best for your business, but when you make a commitment to someone, you should stand by your commitment," said Waiters, who has coached Newbill since ninth grade and was among the first to speak to him after Marquette made its decision. "Marquette was his ideal school. He's a little upset, but I think he'll be fine. The disappointment is that he won't get to go to a Big East school," Waiters said. "He could petition, but you're never going to win those things. But he's got some pretty good offers on the table. He's going to have to get together with his mom and his family and make a decision."
Unfortunately, DJ's mom passed away about a year later and never got to see him play in college.
I would suggest folks look at the timing of the Jamil transfer a little closer...in April it was no slam dunk he was coming to MU for a number of reasons. That didn't become more of a reality until more than a month later.
I would also suggest people look into why Laws was "fired". Perhaps reporter Ted Silary is also lying.
COACHING CAROUSEL
Officially, Gerald Hendricks has been Strawberry Mansion’s head coach for several decades. But lately it’s been what they call an “on-paper” job, meaning the day-to-day operations involved in running a high-quality hoops program were handled by somebody else. In the Knights’ case, that somebody was Stan Laws, who says he’s an ordained minister. Laws, though, was “fired” from his job as volunteer assistant by principal Lois Powell Mondesire and athletic director Jill Syp. The gripe, according to Ted Silary from the Philadelphia Daily News? Laws wasn’t fond of some T-shirts the principal purchased for the team, and the disagreement led to his being asked to leave the program. The Knights lost to Ben Franklin in a Public League semifinal — their only ‘L’ this season — in their next game but rebounded to earn a state berth by beating Prep Charter a few days later. Laws had this to say about Powell Mondesire after his departure: “I did have someone deliver a note to her at the school. I wrote that I forgive her, and that I love her, in the name of Jesus.”
-
I just want to share a quote from DJ Newbill, because apparently he is lying.....
“After the school year was over, it was time for me start with the paperwork and getting into the school…then I got a phone call and Buzz was telling me…actually he called my high school coach and he told me that they were gonna take my scholarship and use it to go another route. They wanted me to go to prep school and recruit me all over again for the following year because they had given out too many scholarships.”
Wait, after the school year he got a call from Buzz? Or rather Philly coach told DJ that Buzz called him? I thought the story (from their camp) was Buzz never called anybody. Wasn't that their big complaint. Hard to keep their story straight, so many versions.
What do your sources in the Damien Saunders camp say about the phone call that Tom Crean made to rip the scholarship from his hands when we ended up over signed because Dom didn't go pro? LOL, time for you to get back to Peegs, jimtelevision. Your boy needs defending.
-
Okay...I'm going to put a little timeline together.
February 2010: Stan Laws fired from Strawberry Mansion (http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/-8563081453566400395/piaa-aa-boys-hoops-championship-can-south-fayette-continue-magical-playoff-run-against-strawberry-mansion/)
There's never been a full account of what happened here, but PhillyCoach was fired in the middle of a 23-0 season from Strawberry Mansion during DJ Newbill's senior year. It was alluded to in the article I posted above (get back to that later) but the bottom line for me is if you get fired when your team is 23-0, you are probably doing things off the court or at least away from the spotlight that you probably shouldn't be doing.
March 17, 2010: Ernie Kent Fired at Oregon (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5001481)
April 14, 2010: Newbill Signs With Marquette (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-14-3248413258_x.htm)
So we know Marquette was (for better or worse) involved with Jamil ahead of time, and Kent had been fired a month before Newbill signed. I'm not saying Buzz is blameless, but by the time Newbill signed, the above posts indicate the staff was already planning on Jamil Wilson transferring. That's how we can be confident that Laws' story that it was a DJ-for-Jamil trade is false. Also, this definitely reflects poorly on the now-departed coaching staff.
May 18, 2010: John Hardnett Dies (http://articles.philly.com/2010-05-19/sports/24961069_1_hoops-sessions-guys)
Hardnett was somewhat the godfather of Philly hoops, but more than that he was very, very close with DJ Newbill. Let's look at some pertinent quotes from this story (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html) posted above on Newbill's relationship with Hardnett:
Newbill knew Hardnett since the 7th grade and regarded him as a father figure. When it came to basketball, this was the guy who taught him the game, guided his path, and helped him make all his decisions. Suddenly, that mentor was gone. So who steps to the forefront of the recruitment? His unemployed high school coach, Stan Laws.
Also, there was always the prep school rumor:
There's a ton of smoke around that old prep school fire story. Maybe because the involvement on DJ's end came from someone who can no longer tell that part of the story?
June 29-30, 2010: DJ Newbill released from LOI (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20874.msg220094#msg220094) and Jamil Wilson Transfers to Marquette (http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/063010aab.html)
Here we come to the alleged "swap", which was always the story Stan Laws tried to spin, often using Brad Forster, a local Philly Marquette grad, as the mouthpiece. But if Jamil was already coming before DJ even signed we know it wasn't a swap. It looks that way. We all thought that was the case, myself included, but those most connected at the time knew the two things were unrelated.
You forgot to include this in the timeline:
January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17700.0;imode)
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.
For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.
The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.
And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign? He's not that stupid he can't count to 13. And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school.
So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, "
Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that? Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?
MU wanted protection? Protection against what? That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived? But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school?
And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).
So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement.
-
i never coached aau or travel ball, i coached at mansion from 2004 thru 2010. i coached dj since 6th grade. and guess what im back at strawberry mansion coaching. why? because its about the kids and their family. And for the record ive been doing full time ministry for 14 years now........
-
Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.
Man, to be this naive in life must take a ton of bubble wrap.
-
You forgot to include this in the timeline:
January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17700.0;imode)
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.
For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.
The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.
And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign? He's not that stupid he can't count to 13. And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school.
So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, "
Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that? Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?
MU wanted protection? Protection against what? That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived? But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school?
And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).
So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement.
Two things.
It is my understanding that Jamil's people were talking about a transfer earlier than when Kent was fired - as early as the semester break. He was not happy at Oregon. (If you want to label that "tampering" then fine...)
It is also my understanding that Newbill wanted to sign the LOI. Although I can see why that doesn't make a lot of sense.
-
You forgot to include this in the timeline:
January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17700.0;imode)
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.
For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.
The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.
And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign? He's not that stupid he can't count to 13. And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school.
So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, "
Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that? Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?
MU wanted protection? Protection against what? That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived? But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school?
And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).
So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement.
The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing. Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.
Man, to be this naive in life must take a ton of bubble wrap.
+1
-
The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing. Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.
Your reading skills are as bad as willie's. I am NOT exonerating Buzz - at all. I have said repeatedly going back to when this entire incident occurred that Buzz was WRONG to do what he did. PERIOD.
Stop making sh*t up.
I am simply saying there is a lot more to the story, and that taking Laws' word as gold here is probably not a wise decision.
The ONLY person I have sympathy for in this entire incident is DJ Newbill. He seems like a great kid who is making everything out of what was a terrible situation.
-
The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing. Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.
SMDH
I am not exonerating Buzz. Far from it. Buzz was one of the parties in the wrong. You clearly aren't reading between the lines, hence why I even needed to post the timeline when that article clearly stated that Laws leveraged two high school kids for a made-up job. Strip out the feel-good BS emotions and that's pretty clearly what happened.
The answer you should be trying to figure out is WHY did Buzz accept the LOI? Answer that and you'll get a bit more character revealed.
-
And Ners, here is what you said the very summer after the incident occurred.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222494#msg222494
"The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."
So don't get all indignant now and misrepresent what others have been saying from the beginning, WHEN YOU ONCE SAID THE SAME D*MN THING!!!
Here is what I said in the same thread.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222545#msg222545
"Now Im not saying DJ's story is 100% true either. As I said earlier, there are plenty of shades of gray here and the truth lies in the middle."
So who has been consistent from the beginning on this???
-
Your reading skills are as bad as willie's. I am NOT exonerating Buzz - at all. I have said repeatedly going back to when this entire incident occurred that Buzz was WRONG to do what he did. PERIOD.
Stop making sh*t up.
I am simply saying there is a lot more to the story, and that taking Laws' word as gold here is probably not a wise decision.
The ONLY person I have sympathy for in this entire incident is DJ Newbill. He seems like a great kid who is making everything out of what was a terrible situation.
I think most of what's been written in this thread has shown your take on the situation to be erroneous. It's okay to just say - I was wrong.
Your whole "there's a lot more to the story" (prep school) has been pretty roundly shown to be a farce. Again...why in the F does DJ sign an NLI with strings attached after a STELLAR senior season that brought other high majors around - if he feels MU may re-nege on the deal?? And why would Stan Laws allow him to sign an NLI which binds him to MU - if he had ulterior motives about "using" DJ to get a college job somewhere else - when MU wasn't going to offer Laws a position?
Again, I'm sure you won't have any answers to these questions - just more vague: There's more to the story, blah, blah, blah.
-
SMDH
I am not exonerating Buzz. Far from it. Buzz was one of the parties in the wrong. You clearly aren't reading between the lines, hence why I even needed to post the timeline when that article clearly stated that Laws leveraged two high school kids for a made-up job. Strip out the feel-good BS emotions and that's pretty clearly what happened.
The answer you should be trying to figure out is WHY did Buzz accept the LOI? Answer that and you'll get a bit more character revealed.
SMDH - Go back and look at the real timeline....Newbill committed to MU on February 1....that's when MU offered/accepted his commitment. You can't sign the NLI till April 15th. Why would Laws let DJ sign with MU on April 15th (after he'd been let go for a disagreement with the school principle), if he were secretly trying to leverage DJ for a job at USM?? Please.
-
I think most of what's been written in this thread has shown your take on the situation to be erroneous. It's okay to just say - I was wrong.
Your whole "there's a lot more to the story" (prep school) has been pretty roundly shown to be a farce. Again...why in the F does DJ sign an NLI with strings attached after a STELLAR senior season that brought other high majors around - if he feels MU may re-nege on the deal?? And why would Stan Laws allow him to sign an NLI which binds him to MU - if he had ulterior motives about "using" DJ to get a college job somewhere else - when MU wasn't going to offer Laws a position?
Again, I'm sure you won't have any answers to these questions - just more vague: There's more to the story, blah, blah, blah.
Ners: "The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."
So what's different now? What changed your mind?
-
And Ners, here is what you said the very summer after the incident occurred.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222494#msg222494
"The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."
So don't get all indignant now and misrepresent what others have been saying from the beginning, WHEN YOU ONCE SAID THE SAME D*MN THING!!!
Here is what I said in the same thread.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222545#msg222545
"Now Im not saying DJ's story is 100% true either. As I said earlier, there are plenty of shades of gray here and the truth lies in the middle."
So who has been consistent from the beginning on this???
Ahh...unlike you...when there is more evidence that comes to light and available - I'm happy to revise my opinion, and call it like it is...I was wrong at the time it went down, but certainly can look at all the information available now and realize the MU/Buzz side of the story don't add up what-so-freaking-ever.
-
Ahh...unlike you...when there is more evidence that comes to light and available - I'm happy to revise my opinion, and call it like it is...I was wrong at the time it went down, but certainly can look at all the information available now and realize the MU/Buzz side of the story don't add up what-so-freaking-ever.
What changed? The timeline was the same. The story was the same from both sides. What evidence came to light that wasn't around then?
The only thing that changed is your opinion of Buzz.
-
What changed? The timeline was the same. The story was the same from both sides. What evidence came to light that wasn't around then?
The only thing that changed is your opinion of Buzz.
Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense? Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets. Why? Because there is no explanation.
As for what changed my opinion? There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.
-
Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense? Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets. Why? Because there is no explanation.
Like I said, answer that and you'll get your character revealed moment.
-
Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense? Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets. Why? Because there is no explanation.
As for what changed my opinion? There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.
False.
IWB's story was the exact same story it is now. In fact you referenced it here:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222221#msg222221
"I have no doubt that Buzz/MU let DJ know at some time along the way that prep school could be an option...but once it became a reality..my guess is the Newbills wanted to see what other offers DJ could get at this time and asked for an outright release...so DJ would be free to be recruited by any other school (if he does decided to go the prep school route.)"
So again, what changed? What new evidence has come to light?
-
Why would Laws let DJ sign with MU on April 15th (after he'd been let go for a disagreement with the school principle), if he were secretly trying to leverage DJ for a job at USM?? Please.
Laws had nothing to do with the NLI. He wasn't DJ's mentor in April when it was signed. Hardett was. When he died in May, Laws moved into that spot. All of the understandings between Hardett/Newbill and MU went out the window. There was a new sheriff in town (Laws) and no way was he going to advise prep school when he could leverage the kid into a job for himself.
-
As for what changed my opinion? There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.
I like you Ners - you know that. But the "evidence" hasn't changed. When this went down you liked Buzz and you liked/felt for DJ so you were able to see it from both sides and weigh things fairly - as a crappy situation for a nice kid due to the machinations of a lot of grown men who should have known better and should have looked out for DJ better. That included Buzz, Monarch and Hardnett. But the crap hit the fan when Hardnett died and Laws "took over". He's the only one who "cashed in" on DJ, so if you're looking for the most culpable/least credible guy in this mess I suggest you follow the money.
-
I like you Ners - you know that. But the "evidence" hasn't changed. When this went down you liked Buzz and you liked/felt for DJ so you were able to see it from both sides and weigh things fairly - as a crappy situation for a nice kid due to the machinations of a lot of grown men who should have known better and should have looked out for DJ better. That included Buzz, Monarch and Hardnett. But the crap hit the fan when Hardnett died and Laws "took over". He's the only one who "cashed in" on DJ, so if you're looking for the most culpable/least credible guy in this mess I suggest you follow the money.
Again, you are looking for a HUGE conspiracy theory here. Laws didn't go to MU and tell them to release DJ from his NLI (so he could free DJ to cash in at USM.) MU pulled the plug on DJ, and in July, DJ was left to choose from limited options.
If DJ was so hell bent on MU and knew prep school was an option all along - he still could have said, "Fine, MU - I love you, you are my dream school, and I'll go to prep school for a year and sign me next year." Laws couldn't force DJ to USM. DJ, like most kids that are ready for high major ball, wanted to get in the game.
Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt. Angry."?
-
Ners, the dots are there. You need to read between the lines to connect them. I'm sure someone with your, what was it, "critical thinking skills", can put it together.
-
Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt. Angry."?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that he made those comments because he was hurt. And angry.
I'm firmly in the "the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle" camp. No matter which version of events you believe -- whether prep school was discussed early or it wasn't; whether it was a DJ for Jamil swap or it wasn't -- it would be completely natural for DJ to come out of the situation feeling hurt. And angry. Under every version of events that has been discussed, this was handled poorly by Marquette and Buzz. I'd be surprised if DJ didn't feel hurt and angry.
-
Ners, the dots are there. You need to read between the lines to connect them. I'm sure someone with your, what was it, "critical thinking skills", can put it together.
LOL - Nice. But, go ahead, and let's hear it from you...and did you want to comment on how your timeline was faulty? DJ committed February 1, (exhausting our last open scholarship) as Jamil Wilson was starting at Oregon and Ernie Kent still in place?
Did Newbill and Stan Laws go to MU to demand a release from the NLI so Laws could cash in at USM?
Please. Clearly, you do need to follow the advice given above, and start to put 1 + 1 together and get 2, not 11.
-
Time to bring the back the NEP. Ners Enabler Pledge.
The NEP is fantastic document which signatories commit to not enable Ners for more than 4 posts on the following topics.
1. Derrick Wilson minutes
2. DJ Newbill
Signatories must know, that future topics that are not currently on the pledge, but that are under consideration include.
1. Whether WoJo sent Gabe packing after he blows up out @ Long Beach State.
2. The possibility of Dawson transferring, and if he does, his future production @ another school.
-
My adherence to the NEP ends when he starts revising history and falsely stating my position. That's pretty much what he has to resort to however.
-
LOL - Nice. But, go ahead, and let's hear it from you...and did you want to comment on how your timeline was faulty? DJ committed February 1, (exhausting our last open scholarship) as Jamil Wilson was starting at Oregon and Ernie Kent still in place?
Did Newbill and Stan Laws go to MU to demand a release from the NLI so Laws could cash in at USM?
Please. Clearly, you do need to follow the advice given above, and start to put 1 + 1 together and get 2, not 11.
The reasons I put this together the way I did was to share as much as I could without telling someone else's story for them. It's not to exonerate Buzz. There are a few more details I have heard that are not mine to share.
Everything is there for you to figure out. As I said above, not my story to tell. But if you're half as smart as you think you are you should be able to figure it out based on what's been posted in this thread.
-
Aren't we again missing the most obvious here, aside from a poster or two wanting to imply that Newbill and his coaches are lying or that someone was "fired" (as a volunteer) for nefarious reasons when, in fact, that volunteer coach was not.
Fact: A NLI is initiated by the school, not the other way around. A student athlete doesn't just have access to a NLI online, sign it and send it in declaring they are coming to a school for obvious reasons. Instead, the NLI is accompanied with a the student athlete financial aid agreement (both documents) and are sent to the athlete to agree to BY THE SCHOOL offering the financial aid agreement. Those come from the school.
This discussion should end right there.
MU sent the NLI and aid package to Newbill. Newbill signed the NLI and sent it back. For a reminder, this is what Buzz Williams said upon receipt of the receiving the NLI.
"We are excited about DJ," Williams said. "Anyone that has followed our program knows the priority toughness and character are to us. DJ embodies those two qualities as well as anyone we have recruited.
"Similar to all of the others in our class thus far, DJ has won at the highest level and many times winning reveals toughness and character," Williams added.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041410aab.html
Jamil Wilson, in April, was not coming to MU yet for a number of reasons. It wasn't until June that he was cleared to transfer. Yes, discussions happened prior to April about transfer possibilities, but he could not come to MU at the time. Newbill was given a NLI and financial aid agreement, which Newbill signed, which Buzz Williams accepted.
Again, the NLI should end all discussions....sent by MU to Newbill, which was signed and returned. It was only AFTER when Wilson could transfer that Buzz yanked everything away and that was well after Newbill signed and returned the NLI. These are facts. Now if someone wants to claim these aren't facts or would like to claim certain people here are carrying water or naive to what happened, please refute these facts. Now, if someone wants to say some conversation happened or was implied and all the coaches that were around Newbill are lying, that Newbill is also lying...that is fine, only problem with that is....the NLI.
-
Everything is there for you to figure out. As I said above, not my story to tell. But if you're half as smart as you think you are you should be able to figure it out based on what's been posted in this thread.
A classic re-direct, that avoids answering very simple questions that pertain to the dots you are trying to connect.
No surprise you and Sultan have no answers for the questions, as to answer them renders your belief on the matter absolutely and totally WRONG!
You want to believe Laws had something to gain from this as a result of him landing at USM with DJ - and essentially convincing DJ to NOT go to prep school. DJ (and his family) certainly could have said, sorry Stan - we are in love with MU - and we knew this was a possibility so we are going to go to Prep School and come back to MU next year. DJ didn't have to go to USM.
-
You want to believe Laws had something to gain from this as a result of him landing at USM with DJ - and essentially convincing DJ to NOT go to prep school. DJ (and his family) certainly could have said, sorry Stan - we are in love with MU - and we knew this was a possibility so we are going to go to Prep School and come back to MU next year. DJ didn't have to go to USM.
No.
Earlier I posted an article. You looked at the article and came to the conclusion Laws was a great, community oriented guy. Lenny looked at the same article critically and saw that Laws leveraged high school kids into a job.
There's enough here to figure out the few missing pieces, but I won't do your thinking for you. Call it what you want, but those answers aren't mine to give.
-
Again, you are looking for a HUGE conspiracy theory here. Laws didn't go to MU and tell them to release DJ from his NLI (so he could free DJ to cash in at USM.) MU pulled the plug on DJ, and in July, DJ was left to choose from limited options.
If DJ was so hell bent on MU and knew prep school was an option all along - he still could have said, "Fine, MU - I love you, you are my dream school, and I'll go to prep school for a year and sign me next year." Laws couldn't force DJ to USM. DJ, like most kids that are ready for high major ball, wanted to get in the game.
Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt. Angry."?
I'm not looking for any kind of conspiracy at all. What I do is connect obvious dots based on what we know.
1.Hardnett (not Laws) was the DJ's mentor and advisor. The "godfather of Philly hoops" who had been around the block a thousand times. His guy was recruited mostly by mid majors, but his dream was MU and the Big East. Hardnett had steered lots of those borderline Big East kids to that dream via the prep school route (often with Jay Wright at Villanova). BEFORE DJ signed his NLI in April Ernie Kent had been fired MU knew that Jamil was coming and that we were, barring something unforeseen (transfer, someone ineligible, etc.), full. Hardnett knew this too - no way Buzz would try to pull a fast one with a guy that powerful. So it looked liked the only route for DJ to MU was prep school. It was dumb for MU to let DJ sign the NLI, but they thought they had a deal in place so no harm, no foul. Stupid.
2. Everything still seems in order, though, until Hardnett dies and Stan Laws moves in. He doesn't want to hear about a prep school, his kid signed a NLI with Marquette and he wants them to honor it (or at least says he does). He's not bound by anything Hardnett agreed to. He has MU over a barrel and he knows it. Marquette has no room, so they'll for sure let DJ out of his NLI. I'm sure he told DJ that MU didn't want him, he'd find a D1 program that did, etc. Before asking MU for a release, he does the PR campaign with useful tool Brad Forster as MU stays silent (as they must). Mission accomplished, he asks MU for the release and it's granted. In a few short weeks (if it already wasn't a done deal beforehand) he parlays DJ into a job for himself, something he's out on if DJ goes to prep school.
Lots of blame to go around. But ask yourself this - who benefitted from DJ asking for his release and not going the prep school route? MU? Nope, DJ is a good player. DJ? I wouldn't classify trading 1 year of prep school plus 4 years at your dream school for a year at Godforsaken S Miss, a sit out year and 3 at Penn St as a benefit. But Stan Laws? He's the guy who got paid. Think about it.
-
Aren't we again missing the most obvious here, aside from a poster or two wanting to imply that Newbill and his coaches are lying or that someone was "fired" (as a volunteer) for nefarious reasons when, in fact, that volunteer coach was not.
Fact: A NLI is initiated by the school, not the other way around. A student athlete doesn't just have access to a NLI online, sign it and send it in declaring they are coming to a school for obvious reasons. Instead, the NLI is accompanied with a the student athlete financial aid agreement (both documents) and are sent to the athlete to agree to BY THE SCHOOL offering the financial aid agreement. Those come from the school.
This discussion should end right there.
MU sent the NLI and aid package to Newbill. Newbill signed the NLI and sent it back. For a reminder, this is what Buzz Williams said upon receipt of the receiving the NLI.
"We are excited about DJ," Williams said. "Anyone that has followed our program knows the priority toughness and character are to us. DJ embodies those two qualities as well as anyone we have recruited.
"Similar to all of the others in our class thus far, DJ has won at the highest level and many times winning reveals toughness and character," Williams added.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041410aab.html
Jamil Wilson, in April, was not coming to MU yet for a number of reasons. It wasn't until June that he was cleared to transfer. Yes, discussions happened prior to April about transfer possibilities, but he could not come to MU at the time. Newbill was given a NLI and financial aid agreement, which Newbill signed, which Buzz Williams accepted.
Again, the NLI should end all discussions....sent by MU to Newbill, which was signed and returned. It was only AFTER when Wilson could transfer that Buzz yanked everything away and that was well after Newbill signed and returned the NLI. These are facts. Now if someone wants to claim these aren't facts or would like to claim certain people here are carrying water or naive to what happened, please refute these facts. Now, if someone wants to say some conversation happened or was implied and all the coaches that were around Newbill are lying, that Newbill is also lying...that is fine, only problem with that is....the NLI.
Chicos, no one is arguing with this. No one is saying that Buzz and MU didn't f*ck up royally by signing him to the NLI.
-
So to complete the conspiracy theory, he followed Stan Laws to Southern Mississippi not because very few schools had any openings in July ....or that Davis (his AAU teammate) was also going there....nah....but because Laws was being paid or had some allegiance to him. Then, when Laws left after one year to go to another program DJ chose not to follow his former coach, but to transfer to Penn State.
Despite all facts in this case with the NLI being sent by MU and signed by Newbill, despite Buzz welcoming DJ to the school and team, despite the comments by Newbill, his coaches, his family..... even the comments by Buzz Williams himself...including the best one, "Through a culmination of several things, we have decided to give D.J. Newbill his release," said coach Buzz Williams. Despite the implication by one poster here that he was fired by the high school for some shady actions, which were addressed in two articles that state that is not the case but apparently the chance to sully this volunteer coach is the goal. Despite all of this, Buzz Williams is the guy to be believed here. Maybe if some people knew a bit more about "culmination of several things" it would open a few more eyeballs.
SMH
-
I'm not looking for any kind of conspiracy at all. What I do is connect obvious dots based on what we know.
1.Hardnett (not Laws) was the DJ's mentor and advisor. The "godfather of Philly hoops" who had been around the block a thousand times. His guy was recruited mostly by mid majors, but his dream was MU and the Big East. Hardnett had steered lots of those borderline Big East kids to that dream via the prep school route (often with Jay Wright at Villanova). BEFORE DJ signed his NLI in April Ernie Kent had been fired MU knew that Jamil was coming and that we were, barring something unforeseen (transfer, someone ineligible, etc.), full. Hardnett knew this too - no way Buzz would try to pull a fast one with a guy that powerful. So it looked liked the only route for DJ to MU was prep school. It was dumb for MU to let DJ sign the NLI, but they thought they had a deal in place so no harm, no foul. Stupid.
2. Everything still seems in order, though, until Hardnett dies and Stan Laws moves in. He doesn't want to hear about a prep school, his kid signed a NLI with Marquette and he wants them to honor it (or at least says he does). He's not bound by anything Hardnett agreed to. He has MU over a barrel and he knows it. Marquette has no room, so they'll for sure let DJ out of his NLI. I'm sure he told DJ that MU didn't want him, he'd find a D1 program that did, etc. Before asking MU for a release, he does the PR campaign with useful tool Brad Forster as MU stays silent (as they must). Mission accomplished, he asks MU for the release and it's granted. In a few short weeks (if it already wasn't a done deal beforehand) he parlays DJ into a job for himself, something he's out on if DJ goes to prep school.
Lots of blame to go around. But ask yourself this - who benefitted from DJ asking for his release and not going the prep school route? MU? Nope, DJ is a good player. DJ? I wouldn't classify trading 1 year of prep school plus 4 years at your dream school for a year at Godforsaken S Miss, a sit out year and 3 at Penn St as a benefit. But Stan Laws? He's the guy who got paid. Think about it.
Bingo
-
A classic re-direct, that avoids answering very simple questions that pertain to the dots you are trying to connect.
No surprise you and Sultan have no answers for the questions, as to answer them renders your belief on the matter absolutely and totally WRONG!
LEARN. HOW. TO. READ.
I have answered the very question you asked in this very thread. Not to mention that Lenny addressed it in his post.
-
So to complete the conspiracy theory, he followed Stan Laws to Southern Mississippi not because very few schools had any openings in July ....or that Davis (his AAU teammate) was also going there....nah....but because Laws was being paid or had some allegiance to him.
How can anyone not blinded by hatred or just outright dense or a combination of both call the obvious selling of a player a "conspiracy theory"? You think Stan Laws getting a job at Southern Miss and DJ going there was a coincidence? Nobody could be that stupid.
-
https://onwardstate.com/2014/12/03/the-marquette-connection-dj-newbill-and-the-scholarship-that-wasnt/
http://www.slamonline.com/college-hs/college/dj-newbill-philly-swagger/
-
Then, when Laws left after one year to go to another program DJ chose not to follow his former coach, but to transfer to Penn State.
Follow the money. Larry Eustachy gave Laws the job at USM. Eustachy left USM the next year. He went to Colorado State. Care to guess where Laws went? Laws went to another program following his meal ticket. Newbill, rather than following Laws, decided to transfer back home.
-
Time to bring the back the NEP. Ners Enabler Pledge.
The NEP is fantastic document which signatories commit to not enable Ners for more than 4 posts on the following topics.
1. Derrick Wilson minutes
2. DJ Newbill
Signatories must know, that future topics that are not currently on the pledge, but that are under consideration include.
1. Whether WoJo sent Gabe packing after he blows up out @ Long Beach State.
2. The possibility of Dawson transferring, and if he does, his future production @ another school.
Need a macro to review all messages before they're posted.
"The message you typed contains the words 'Derrick,' 'Dawson,' or 'Newbill.' Additionally, it is in a thread that already contains more than 3 posts by Ners. Are you sure you wish to post this message?"
-
It would be nice if there was a "scoop penalty box" feature where the mods could restrain certain posters to one post per thread for short periods of time.
-
Sure sounds like a kid who thought Prep School was an option all along...
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ec389e2c-4e8f-5861-91fa-1c06c71b82f7.html
The going-away party that never was
Heading into his senior year of high school, Newbill received minimal scholarship offers, all from mid-major schools.
So when he was watching Marquette, a consistent tournament team from the Big East, display its gritty style of play on TV with his friend, he decided to set a goal for himself.
“I was like, ‘Man, I’ll go there,’ ” Newbill said. “And my friend was just looking at me like, ‘Man, you got to be real to be on that level. That’s high-level basketball.’ ”
Yet, the Strawberry Mansion standout’s impressive final season seemingly helped him prove his friend wrong.
Toward the end of the season, the Golden Eagles’ staff, led by coach Buzz Williams, offered him a scholarship and Newbill said he did not hesitate to accept it from his top school.
Newbill’s excitement gradually rose as the months turned to weeks before he planned to arrive on Marquette’s campus.
“My mom was planning a big trunk party for me. She had a sign saying ‘D.J. Newbill, Marquette’ and everything,” Newbill said.
“It was probably a couple days before my going-away party that they took the scholarship away.”
Suddenly, Newbill’s excitement was replaced with frustration, his anticipation superseded by devastation.
There would no longer be a going-away party.
Newbill learned the crushing news in late June from his high school coach, Stan Laws, who told him the Eagles’ staff called to say the program wanted to “go in another direction.”
The exact reasons for Marquette’s decision to rescind Newbill’s scholarship were never publicized by the university.
Laws said at first the staff told him the reason for the release had to do with a problem with the application. But after reading between the lines, the high school coach said he felt the Eagles’ assistant coach, Scott Monarch, was not being completely up front with him.
“He kind of danced around the subject of why this and that,” Laws said. “I basically asked him, ‘What is it that you’re trying to say?’ And he just said, ‘I think Buzz feels like it would be best if we just part ways and D.J. find another situation.’ ”
Laws said the excuse of an application not being on file was invalid because the staff told Newbill to take his time with its completion just a week earlier.
Instead, he saw the release as a loophole to make room for Oregon transfer player Jamil Wilson, who the Eagles welcomed in his place.
“When that opportunity came for the Oregon kid to come in, they did it at any cost and at the expense of hurting a kid’s feelings,” Laws said.
Marquette Associate Athletic Director Scott Kuykendall declined to comment on Laws’ recollection of the release of Newbill’s scholarship.
“We wouldn’t have any comment on anything that [Laws is] saying like that,” Kuykendall said. “…There wouldn’t be anything from our end on it.”
Meanwhile, Newbill acknowledged that there were a lot of stories floating around, but said he ultimately tried to use the controversy surrounding Marquette — whose staff he said never spoke to him directly — as motivation moving forward.
“I was frustrated. I was devastated,” Newbill said. “I was a little confused. I was hurt. [My mom] was hurt. But, I guess things happen for a reason. The next day, I was getting calls from a lot of schools.”
Although most Division I programs had all of their scholarship slots filled at this point, Newbill ultimately received a late offer from Southern Mississippi three weeks later and he accepted it with open arms.
-
Ners, of course he was devastated. It is where he wanted to go. It is where he thought he was going. There was no alternative. The whole thing was sad. Compounded by a few other things, but the guardians of the galaxy will rip anyone for saying it. The whole "paperwork" BS that was given by the same person later fired because of other lying was disgusting.
MU shat on the kid after welcoming him to the fold. Buzz didn't bother to call the kid, Buzz didn't even bother to call the coach....Monarch did....no one called DJ, his father or his mother (who would die about 24 months later from cancer). It was wrong....across the board wrong.
-
Compounded by a few other things, but the guardians of the galaxy will rip anyone for saying it. The whole "paperwork" BS that was given by the same person later fired because of other lying was disgusting.
No. No one here is claiming Buzz was the good guy. Buzz was a bad guy. He was wrong in how he handled it from the start and when things got worse he handled it poorly, compounding the problem rather than fixing it.
But Buzz being a bad guy does NOT make Laws a good guy. There is no benevolent father figure here. There is no champion who was looking out for DJ's best interest. Just a glut of bad guys using a high school kid.