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Author Topic: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent  (Read 12572 times)

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« on: November 15, 2007, 10:10:09 AM »
Quote
"Still, though the letter promises a scholarship for one year, it can be revoked if a student is rejected by a school's admissions department. That opens the possibility that if a coach is able to sign a better player, the school can cut the first player loose and say it was for academic reasons. (Don't think that doesn't happen.)"

Sound familiar?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/national.letter/index.html

Coobeys Oil Depot

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 10:42:59 AM »
Quote
"Still, though the letter promises a scholarship for one year, it can be revoked if a student is rejected by a school's admissions department. That opens the possibility that if a coach is able to sign a better player, the school can cut the first player loose and say it was for academic reasons. (Don't think that doesn't happen.)"

Sound familiar?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/national.letter/index.html

Good for you (seal clapping). You can successfully dig up a dead story.

We get it. Sunshine-blowers don't show up every day and point out an instance of everything being sunny. You don't need to point out a downer every single day to get your point across.

Besides, if all it had to do with is who is the better player do you think Crean would have cut Saunders to keep Hazel? Think about it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 10:45:33 AM by Coobeys Oil Depot »

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 11:05:47 AM »
No, it doesn't sound familiar.
Remind me of all the times in recent years MU's admissions department rejected one player in order to make room for a better recruit.

MarquetteDano

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The real issue
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 11:20:52 AM »
The real issue I have is that next year we are doing exactly what we did this year... signing more people than there are schollies available (I believe we get 3, but we will sign 4).  I don't like this practice as, at the very least, creates rumors about the one who will not sign if James doesn't go pro.

Yes, I understand James might graduate so this is a non-issue, as he probably will be gone either way.  I just don't like the practice.  Any number of things could happen that would allow for only 3 scholarships available next year.

TallTitan34

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 11:22:33 AM »
Not to mention Saunders got charged with DRUG POSSESSION!  Not really the kind of guy I want on my team.
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ToddPacker

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 11:55:27 AM »
Not to mention Saunders got charged with DRUG POSSESSION!  Not really the kind of guy I want on my team.

Because nobody you ever knew got busted for pot possession?  From what I have heard, it was not even his, just in the car he was riding in.  On the long list of offenses, possessing marijuana is one in which I am willing to cut a guy some slack and give him a second chance.  I think sometimes, people forget where a lot of these kids are coming from.  They certainly should know better, but oftentimes do not.  Would you be as upset if he got busted for underage drinking? 

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 12:05:05 PM »
Hard to believe he'll maintain this pace, but through two games Saunders is averaging 15.5 points and 6.5 rebounds a game.

Ouch.


Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 12:09:47 PM »
Not to mention Saunders got charged with DRUG POSSESSION!  Not really the kind of guy I want on my team.

Because nobody you ever knew got busted for pot possession?  From what I have heard, it was not even his, just in the car he was riding in.  On the long list of offenses, possessing marijuana is one in which I am willing to cut a guy some slack and give him a second chance.  I think sometimes, people forget where a lot of these kids are coming from.  They certainly should know better, but oftentimes do not.  Would you be as upset if he got busted for underage drinking? 

I'm inclined to agree with you... but its a risky situation for a coach. If MU did take Saunders on the team and if he had ANY sort of infraction (academic, transfer, behavior, etc.) there would be people here pounding Crean for "not knowing better" and not cutting ties with Saunders right away.

Each kid is his own situation, but it's a tough spot for a coach because hindsight is a favorite for sports fans.

I don't know if there is a "right" or "wrong" answer here.

Given MU's track record, I'd say that is probably true that Saunders was struggling academically and thus wasn't taken on the team.

People may hate Crean and/or Fr. Wild, but in the area of academics and recruiting, he's never been known as "shady"... so I think we just have to take the program at its word.


Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 12:54:21 PM »
Hard to believe he'll maintain this pace, but through two games Saunders is averaging 15.5 points and 6.5 rebounds a game.

Ouch.



Which, of course, seems to run counter to your implication that he was run off the team in order to make room for a better recruit. If anything, not letting Saunders into MU appears to be an example of a kid not getting into school despite the likelihood he would help the team.

mosarsour

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 01:06:13 PM »
Not to mention Saunders got charged with DRUG POSSESSION!  Not really the kind of guy I want on my team.

Because nobody you ever knew got busted for pot possession?  From what I have heard, it was not even his, just in the car he was riding in.  On the long list of offenses, possessing marijuana is one in which I am willing to cut a guy some slack and give him a second chance.  I think sometimes, people forget where a lot of these kids are coming from.  They certainly should know better, but oftentimes do not.  Would you be as upset if he got busted for underage drinking? 

I smoked pot with Hutchins and Polonowski when I was a student. I never thought it was that big of a deal. Saunders may very well have been a victim of circumstance, but he wouldn't have been the first pot smoker in MU basketball history. We should have kept him.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 01:07:12 PM »
My implication was that he was run off the team because Crean overbooked scholarships and we used the academic issues as an excuse.

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 01:16:23 PM »
My implication was that he was run off the team because Crean overbooked scholarships and we used the academic issues as an excuse.


Interesting theory, but it makes no sense.

If Crean was going to run someone off the team to open up a scholarship, wouldn't it be far more likely that he would run off Blackledge.
Trend, God bless him, has shown that he's not likely to contribute very much to this team and, as a senior, has no long-term future with the program. On top of that, he has an established history of classroom issues that would make such a claim (i.e. that he was dismissed for academic reasons) credible.

Or why not Patrick Hazel who - at least to this point - appears to have less upside than Saunders.

But instead he chooses to dump a promising freshman frontcourt player who could contribute not only this season, but for three more?
Sorry, but your theory simply doesn't hold any water.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 01:24:44 PM »
My implication was that he was run off the team because Crean overbooked scholarships and we used the academic issues as an excuse.


Interesting theory, but it makes no sense.

If Crean was going to run someone off the team to open up a scholarship, wouldn't it be far more likely that he would run off Blackledge.
Trend, God bless him, has shown that he's not likely to contribute very much to this team and, as a senior, has no long-term future with the program. On top of that, he has an established history of classroom issues that would make such a claim (i.e. that he was dismissed for academic reasons) credible.

Or why not Patrick Hazel who - at least to this point - appears to have less upside than Saunders.

But instead he chooses to dump a promising freshman frontcourt player who could contribute not only this season, but for three more?
Sorry, but your theory simply doesn't hold any water.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people on this board who believe their wives were virgins on their wedding night.

Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 01:25:47 PM »

It seems to me that there are a lot of people on this board who believe their wives were virgins on their wedding night.

The message board equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home."

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2007, 02:17:39 PM »

It seems to me that there are a lot of people on this board who believe their wives were virgins on their wedding night.

The message board equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home."

What? It's the message board equivalent of "believe what you want."

TallTitan34

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 02:20:12 PM »

Because nobody you ever knew got busted for pot possession?  From what I have heard, it was not even his, just in the car he was riding in.  On the long list of offenses, possessing marijuana is one in which I am willing to cut a guy some slack and give him a second chance.  I think sometimes, people forget where a lot of these kids are coming from.  They certainly should know better, but oftentimes do not.  Would you be as upset if he got busted for underage drinking? 

What I am saying is, if Crean did take Saunders over Hazel, PRN and the Creans haters would be right there saying Crean only took Saunders because he's a better athlete despite problems with the law.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 02:26:35 PM by TallTitan34 »
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Pakuni

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 02:46:30 PM »
What? It's the message board equivalent of "believe what you want."

I see.
Then explain for me, who apparently doesn't get it, why - if it were Crean's intent to use academics as a phony reasoning for running off a player - he would chose a player who could help his team win games for the next four seasons.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 03:57:52 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

mu03eng

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 04:09:30 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

Pakuni's point is that if you believe this to be true, why would Crean use this underhanded method to dump a player that can help this year as opposed to using this method to dump Hazel or Blackledge?  Blackledge already had well documented academic issues, seems much easier to "disqualify" him than it would be Saunders.  Plus based on your stats Saunders would have helped more than Trend.

Or are you saying that Crean is both devious and stupid?

Ever hear of Occum's Razor?  Which is more likely, Saunders really didn't qualify or Crean colluded with several high placed MU official's and newspapers to have Saunders disqualify because James stuck around?
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

ilovefreeway

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 04:14:42 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

Pakuni's point is that if you believe this to be true, why would Crean use this underhanded method to dump a player that can help this year as opposed to using this method to dump Hazel or Blackledge?  Blackledge already had well documented academic issues, seems much easier to "disqualify" him than it would be Saunders.  Plus based on your stats Saunders would have helped more than Trend.

Or are you saying that Crean is both devious and stupid?

Ever hear of Occum's Razor?  Which is more likely, Saunders really didn't qualify or Crean colluded with several high placed MU official's and newspapers to have Saunders disqualify because James stuck around?

I think it was the second shooter on the grassy knoll who planted the weed on him and hid his textbooks before tests. 

dwaderoy2004

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »
I don't disagree with PRN here.  it was either going to be Blackledge or Saunders who did not meet "academic requirements" due to DJ being back.  I believe Saunders arrest just made the decision earlier.  Is it too bad?  yes.  but that is the price we pay for higher recruiting.  most big-time programs will overbook to handle departures, whether they be transfers or draft defections.  you don;t think saunders knew that this was a possibility?  he committed to us knowing full well he was the one who put us over the top, so he was taking as much risk as we were.  both sides knew the conditions when the committment was made...

ToddPacker

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2007, 04:33:12 PM »
I know for a fact that Trend's scholarship was renewed prior to any decision being made on the Saunders or DJ issues, so that was a moot point.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2007, 04:50:48 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

Why did he pick Saunders?

downtown85

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 05:30:45 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

Why did he pick Saunders?

And not Mbakwe for example.  Mbakwe had serious clearninghouse issues.  Saunders breezed through the clearninghouse.  I would guess that Saunders filled out an application and was accepted to MU initially, i.e., he met the academic qualifications for MU.   

The following is pure speculation: Perhaps it was a question of personality in the end.  Hazel seems like a real hard worker who is glad to be here.  He won't make problems off the court or in terms of the team.  Saunders may not have hit it off with Crean.  Perhaps TC sensed some ego issues or something about Saunders personality that wouldn't fit in the system. 

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Seth Davis on Letters of Intent
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 05:40:43 PM »
Obviously, you believe one thing and I believe another.

Are you denying that we overbooked scholarships thinking James was going pro? I don't think you are...at least I hope not.

If you acknowledge this, do you think Crean just got lucky when Saunders didn't qualify? Do you think he would have qualified had James been NBA-ready?

Why did he pick Saunders?

And not Mbakwe for example.  Mbakwe had serious clearninghouse issues.  Saunders breezed through the clearninghouse.  I would guess that Saunders filled out an application and was accepted to MU initially, i.e., he met the academic qualifications for MU.   

The following is pure speculation: Perhaps it was a question of personality in the end.  Hazel seems like a real hard worker who is glad to be here.  He won't make problems off the court or in terms of the team.  Saunders may not have hit it off with Crean.  Perhaps TC sensed some ego issues or something about Saunders personality that wouldn't fit in the system. 

Honestly,

This administration and coach have never been accused or even considered to be "shady" in the area of academics or recruiting. So, while I'm not just "sticking my head in the sand", I am going to trust that MU knows what it is doing... and I don't think they are running off the least talented player like PRN implies in his first post.