Russian Xenophobia: Putin's popularity and the External Threat

[keefe]

Putin's base now cuts across all demographics with an approval rating of 84%

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/09/09/explaining-putins-popularity-rallying-round-the-russian-flag/

[Benny B]

Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.  There are some eerie similarities and parallels here between what's going on now and what happening 80 years ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remilitarization_of_the_Rhineland

[rocket surgeon]

Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.  There are some eerie similarities and parallels here between what's going on now and what happening 80 years ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remilitarization_of_the_Rhineland

right on benny.  it seems there either has been a de-emphasis on history or it's taught differently or something.  many of the text books are vetted very loosely and the editors and such have other agendas.  plus the fact that our basic education principles have expanded to include so much p.c. crap that didn't exist 30-40 years ago and have taken time away from such mundane things as history.  keep the people fat, happy and stupid=a good day

[Galway Eagle]

right on benny.  it seems there either has been a de-emphasis on history or it's taught differently or something.  many of the text books are vetted very loosely and the editors and such have other agendas.  plus the fact that our basic education principles have expanded to include so much p.c. crap that didn't exist 30-40 years ago and have taken time away from such mundane things as history.  keep the people fat, happy and stupid=a good day

I know it's easy to laugh at other countries schooling but ours isn't much better.  I mean we have teachers teaching that the earth is 6,000 years old in certain parts of the country. Personally I'd take the system where they actually learn correct things even if they're taught in a way meant to twist your mind.  (Note I'm not saying that all American schools are bad but we as a nation have a tendency to laugh at others and turn a blind eye internally)

[rocket surgeon]

i don't think we wanted to turn this topic into a focus on our education, but as long as history was brought up and then my can of worms above-oh well.  i think we've meddled too much with our system.  we've taken what we've seen work in the past and then tried to improve it and guess what?  too many cooks?  i think it's too many ideologues with too much time on their hands going, watch this...  and then add a little federal money to the mix and wha-la.  we need to get back to the basics.
and putin, i don't get the love.  i don't like dicktators or kgb

[Benny B]

WWII history is what I do in what little free time I have to keep my brain working, and I'll tell you that not even a 5.0 credit course over a semester is enough time to learn and understand it all.

That said, with what I've learned thus far... Putin's actions scare the bejesus out of me.  It's like every move he's made - from grandstanding the Olympics to the nationalism propoganda - is being taken right out of the third reich's playbook.

[rocket surgeon]

WWII history is what I do in what little free time I have to keep my brain working, and I'll tell you that not even a 5.0 credit course over a semester is enough time to learn and understand it all.

That said, with what I've learned thus far... Putin's actions scare the bejesus out of me.  It's like every move he's made - from grandstanding the Olympics to the nationalism propoganda - is being taken right out of the third reich's playbook.

yes yes and yes!!

[Coleman]

WWII history is what I do in what little free time I have to keep my brain working, and I'll tell you that not even a 5.0 credit course over a semester is enough time to learn and understand it all.

That said, with what I've learned thus far... Putin's actions scare the bejesus out of me.  It's like every move he's made - from grandstanding the Olympics to the nationalism propoganda - is being taken right out of the third reich's playbook.

If it makes you feel any better, Russia's economy is nowhere near where the German economy was in the 1930s, they are a one trick pony, producing oil and that's about it. If we were truly involved in a total war with them, us and our allies would outmatch them in everyway.

The fact they still have nukes is scary though.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

WWII history is what I do in what little free time I have to keep my brain working, and I'll tell you that not even a 5.0 credit course over a semester is enough time to learn and understand it all.

That said, with what I've learned thus far... Putin's actions scare the bejesus out of me.  It's like every move he's made - from grandstanding the Olympics to the nationalism propoganda - is being taken right out of the third reich's playbook.

My wife has been hearing from family and friends back in Poland and they are all very worried and concerned.  Apparently, the prevailing theory is Putin wants "a corridor" to the oblast of Kaliningrad so he has to go through Lithuania, Latvia & Poland to make that happen.
 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

If it makes you feel any better, Russia's economy is nowhere near where the German economy was in the 1930s, they are a one trick pony, producing oil and that's about it. If we were truly involved in a total war with them, us and our allies would outmatch them in everyway.

The fact they still have nukes is scary though.

I was just reading an article on this.  The title was along the lines of "Stop comparing modern Russia to the USSR".  The jist of the article was Russia has oil, land (mostly vacant) & nukes and that's about it.  All the USSR trade was with the "Eastern Block" and that's completely gone as the Eastern European countries primarily trade with the West (other than oil & natural gas).

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

WWII history is what I do in what little free time I have to keep my brain working, and I'll tell you that not even a 5.0 credit course over a semester is enough time to learn and understand it all.

That's cool!  I've always been a WWII buff, always reading new stories on it.  When I visit, the in-laws in Poland they always take me to WWII sites.

[GGGG]

One could also make the argument that it is easy to see parallels to the past, but its the details that make things different.  So is Putin doing things similar to what Hitler did?  Sure.  But there are many ways in which it is completely different.  As Bleuteaux pointed out, Russia's economy sucks.  And the west has already responded much more substantially than they ever did prior Hitler's invasion of Poland.  We aren't appeasing anything.

The issue is that the Ukraine simply isn't an ally and it isn't in our national interests to send troops in to protect them.  The Baltic states?  Yes.  Poland?  No doubt.  Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other traditional puppet governments of Russia?  Nope.

[Benny B]

One could also make the argument that it is easy to see parallels to the past, but its the details that make things different.  So is Putin doing things similar to what Hitler did?  Sure.  But there are many ways in which it is completely different.  As Bleuteaux pointed out, Russia's economy sucks.  And the west has already responded much more substantially than they ever did prior Hitler's invasion of Poland.  We aren't appeasing anything.

The issue is that the Ukraine simply isn't an ally and it isn't in our national interests to send troops in to protect them.  The Baltic states?  Yes.  Poland?  No doubt.  Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other traditional puppet governments of Russia?  Nope.

True.  But whether you no longer wish to be a puppet (Ukraine) or you're being made into a puppet against your will (France, 1940), you have to be focused on the motivations of the puppeteer, which is especially hard when there's a guy with his hand up your wazoo.  Rarely are they ever content for very long with the puppets they already have... just look at Jeff Dunham.

Of course there are differences in the details.  Take the example of Putin wanting to exclude homosexuality from his Olympics and Hitler wanting to exclude Blacks and Jews.  Sure the discriminatees are different, but that's a pretty obvious similarity.  Between 1936 and 2014, I'm struggling to find an example where the host countries' leaders sought so blatantly to exclude certain peoples from their games despite the fact that such a measure would exclude some of the best athletes in the world.  Hardly seems like a coincidence.

Nevertheless, the bustling economy of pre-WWII Germany was a direct result of Hitler's desire for rearmament.  While not Keynesianism per se, the economy was being driven predominantly by gov't spending.  Innovative and economic advances weren't being made in rural and agricultural life.  Everyday life still sucked for most Germans not tied to the military or the reich.  In fact, the gov't took great strides to squelch low morale and rising unrest amongst the (paid) labor force.  Russia's economy today may only be a shadow of pre-WWII Germany's, but turn on the soviet war machine, and what happens?

I'm not comparing 2014 Russia to 1939 Germany... today's Russia is more of a 1936ish Germany.  I don't parallel the Ukraine "invasion" as the Invasion of Poland.  The parallel to the Invasion of Poland will probably be the invasion of Poland.

And certainly, it's up for debate, but I see plenty of appeasing going on right now... or at least Russia setting the stage for a demand that the Sudentenland Crimea be absorbed into Russia.

[Lennys Tap]

One could also make the argument that it is easy to see parallels to the past, but its the details that make things different.  So is Putin doing things similar to what Hitler did?  Sure.  But there are many ways in which it is completely different.  As Bleuteaux pointed out, Russia's economy sucks.  And the west has already responded much more substantially than they ever did prior Hitler's invasion of Poland.  We aren't appeasing anything.

The issue is that the Ukraine simply isn't an ally and it isn't in our national interests to send troops in to protect them.  The Baltic states?  Yes.  Poland?  No doubt.  Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other traditional puppet governments of Russia?  Nope.

I hope you're right about not appeasing anything. Maybe the whole Ukraine situation will be a "come to Jesus" moment for President Obama regarding just who Vlad Putin really is. But it wasn't that long ago that we were selling out the Poles for a treaty that benefitted us not at all. Or that the president was mocking Governor Romney in the debates for saying that Russia was our most formidable geopolitical foe. Or that Obama was whispering a promise of "more flexibility" towards Putin following the election. Color me unconvinced.

[Coleman]

True.  But whether you no longer wish to be a puppet (Ukraine) or you're being made into a puppet against your will (France, 1940), you have to be focused on the motivations of the puppeteer, which is especially hard when there's a guy with his hand up your wazoo.  Rarely are they ever content for very long with the puppets they already have... just look at Jeff Dunham.

Of course there are differences in the details.  Take the example of Putin wanting to exclude homosexuality from his Olympics and Hitler wanting to exclude Blacks and Jews.  Sure the discriminatees are different, but that's a pretty obvious similarity.  Between 1936 and 2014, I'm struggling to find an example where the host countries' leaders sought so blatantly to exclude certain peoples from their games despite the fact that such a measure would exclude some of the best athletes in the world.  Hardly seems like a coincidence.

Nevertheless, the bustling economy of pre-WWII Germany was a direct result of Hitler's desire for rearmament.  While not Keynesianism per se, the economy was being driven predominantly by gov't spending.  Innovative and economic advances weren't being made in rural and agricultural life.  Everyday life still sucked for most Germans not tied to the military or the reich.  In fact, the gov't took great strides to squelch low morale and rising unrest amongst the (paid) labor force.  Russia's economy today may only be a shadow of pre-WWII Germany's, but turn on the soviet war machine, and what happens?

I'm not comparing 2014 Russia to 1939 Germany... today's Russia is more of a 1936ish Germany.  I don't parallel the Ukraine "invasion" as the Invasion of Poland.  The parallel to the Invasion of Poland will probably be the invasion of Poland.

And certainly, it's up for debate, but I see plenty of appeasing going on right now... or at least Russia setting the stage for a demand that the Sudentenland Crimea be absorbed into Russia.

Probably the most analogous comparison of the Crimean annexation with Nazi Germany would be the Austrian anschluss of 1938.

A far right party in the territory in question supporting the annexation, militarized annexation, a sham referendum with 99% approval, etc.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

FWIW, I have a friend in the military who said there are a lot more "U.S. military personnel" on the ground in Poland than advertised. 

[Dawson Rental]

My wife has been hearing from family and friends back in Poland and they are all very worried and concerned.  Apparently, the prevailing theory is Putin wants "a corridor" to the oblast of Kaliningrad so he has to go through Lithuania, Latvia & Poland to make that happen.
 

If true that situation (the corridor) would bear an eerie resemblance to Hitler's objection to the "Polish Corridor" to the Baltic Sea which cut off East Prussia from Germany proper, and served as the justification for the invasion of Poland.