Ferguson, MO

[GGGG]

I'd recommend for Sultan and others to educate themselves a bit, on why 6 bullets are used.  http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/opinion/haberfeld-why-six-bullets-fired/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

Someone tell Chicos that the very article he quoted said the following things:

"Police officers receive between 70 and 120 hours of training in the use of deadly force from the technical angle -- that is, how to fire their guns accurately. But little in their training modules touches upon the psychological, physiological and social aspects of the use of deadly force. This is a mistake."

and

"Police also receive practically no training in stress management; if a department decides to offer such training, it is usually on an experimental basis and not incorporated long term. But without learning to manage stressful encounters, officers will find themselves again and again in situations in which human life -- that of the person the force is used against or the police officer who shoots -- is sacrificed because of an error of judgment."

and

"Researchers have shown that under the stress of a deadly force encounter, a series of physiological changes occur. Visual perception becomes seriously impaired: Up to 70% of the peripheral vision is affected. This visual impairment often creates an inability to assess how many shots are needed and if indeed the suspect has been incapacitated to the point of posing no more threat to the police officer or others."

So if he is coming to the defense of the police and how they handled this situation, THE VERY ARTICLE HE LINKED TO pointed out multiple deficiencies in how the police were trained to handle the situation.

Someone also tell Chicos that if he is going to put me on ignore, then ignore me.  Really calling me out because he reads and responds to what I write only when other people quote me in posts is the equivalent of a little kid, who during a fight, just sits on the sidelines until he can sucker-punch someone.  I guess it's not surprising really...

[jesmu84]

From a friend:

There will be no winners. The prosecutor is racist if he doesn't put up some kind of murder charge, the cop is a murderer forever, the kid will always be seen as a robbing/assaulting druggie that got shot for attacking a cop, the little police dept will be seen as racist and inept because they couldn't, overnight, handle thousands of protestors, thousands of media and the race industry dropping out of heaven into their back yard, the residents will be seen as savage criminals waiting to steal, loot and destroy for no good reason. Every white-black/left-right stereotype is being reinforced in this event and it will result in one big nothing. Lets hope supporters of the police don't show up on scene to counterbalance this fiasco, then it could turn into an all out free for all....and really good TV

Sadly true. No one is going to wait for all the facts to come in. Too much of a chance to create a stir. Unfortunate.

Having said that, I think the over-militarization of police is a bit ridiculous is some situations.

[brandx]

In the meantime, some good advice from a cop who teaches other cops.  "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."  Pretty simple.  You bum rush a cop, you're going to get hurt.  Respect the cops, do what they say to do., simple credo to live by.  There are some bad cops out there, but most are not.    

This may be the most disgusting commentary on police that I have ever read.

[GGGG]

This may be the most disgusting commentary on police that I have ever read.

Yeah and it really does point to the problem.  Part of what police are supposed to do is diffuse a situation.  The response to being called a name...a racist pig...etc. is to talk people down.  Not to be indignant about it.

[brandx]

Sadly true. No one is going to wait for all the facts to come in. Too much of a chance to create a stir. Unfortunate.

Having said that, I think the over-militarization of police is a bit ridiculous is some situations.

It is, but the blame lies with the Dept. of Homeland Security for funding this. The rich and powerful found just another way to intimidate US citizens.

[brandx]

Yeah and it really does point to the problem.  Part of what police are supposed to do is diffuse a situation.  The response to being called a name...a racist pig...etc. is to talk people down.  Not to be indignant about it.

You're right, of course. Their job is to deescalate the situation - not to rachet up the tension even more.

[Benny B]

It is, but the blame lies with the Dept. of Homeland Security for funding this. The rich and powerful found just another way to intimidate US citizens the poor and dangerous.

FIFY.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why everyone hates cops.

Not EVERYONE hates cops.  Not even the majority hate cops.

Good try

They have a tough job, most do a great job, some do not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Report:  Cop had blown out orbital blowout fracture of the eye socket.


Narrative, keeps changing. 



Howard Kurtz, former CNN reporter nails it.  "Some liberal outlets [are] creating almost a lynch mob mentality around this, the Huffington Post today, screaming banner headline ‘Arrest Him.’ Now, the Huffington Post, nor you or I, knows exactly what happened” he said. And “when you cross that line into becoming an advocate and to demanding that somebody be prosecuted before the facts are in, while the investigation is going on, you’re grandstanding, you’re trying to keep the story alive and I really think it’s troubling.”

Kurtz also criticized CNN for showing the house of accused officer Darren Wilson, stating, “It defies my understanding how you could put his life or the life of his family in danger by even briefly showing the house or naming the street.”

[Spotcheck Billy]

Report:  Cop had blown out orbital blowout fracture of the eye socket.

so the officer's blown out orbital suffered a blowout fracture or his orbital blowout fracture was blown out?

<never took an anatomy class>

[ChicosBailBonds]

FIFY.

Good thing the criminal element out there (poor or rich) aren't intimidating law abiding citizens anywhere....that wasn't directed at you Benny, but I saw who you quoted and I refuse to unignore someone that calls a wife a liar without apologizing. 

The reality is that in some cases the police are overarmed, they are buying up military surplus, etc.  Coincidentally, since this has happened the deaths of cops has come down...that's not surprising and that result should have happened.  What gets dangerous is if such arming makes them act in a way that is out of control, infringes on civil rights, etc while also providing them with the means to keep the peace, protect themselves, etc.  A tough balancing act to be sure. 

My little community has no such tactical force, just regular cop cars.  They do have vests.  Rest assured, if several of them died in the line of duty, there would be a public outcry here to arm up.  Reactionary, but that's how life works in the U.S.

[Silkk the Shaka]

As usual, Canned Goods 'n Ammo with by far the best, most thoughtful, reasoned posts in a thread like this.

That's all I got.

[Aughnanure]

Report:  Cop had blown out orbital blowout fracture of the eye socket.


Narrative, keeps changing.  

Yet he still managed to shoot Mike Brown in the head. Twice.

Interesting how you think that when the narrative changes it isn't suspicious at all. It's taken them more than a freaking week to come out with this! Oh and Gateway Pundit? Suuurreeeee.

[brandx]

Good thing the criminal element out there (poor or rich) aren't intimidating law abiding citizens anywhere....that wasn't directed at you Benny, but I saw who you quoted and I refuse to unignore someone that calls a wife a liar without apologizing. 

You have stated this on numerous occasions. I don't ever recall saying anything (good, bad, or indifferent) about your wife. Maybe you could enlighten me as to what I said.

[Coleman]

In the meantime, some good advice from a cop who teaches other cops.  "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."  Pretty simple.  You bum rush a cop, you're going to get hurt.  Respect the cops, do what they say to do., simple credo to live by.  There are some bad cops out there, but most are not.    

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

So basically, "don't exercise your first amendment rights, and I won't shoot you."

[GGGG]

You have stated this on numerous occasions. I don't ever recall saying anything (good, bad, or indifferent) about your wife. Maybe you could enlighten me as to what I said.

He's talking about me. 

[tower912]

I like cops.   They hang out at my fire station during their bathroom breaks, we visit, we insult each other, we drink pop and discuss our customers.   But they are human and they do make mistakes.   While on a medical call, I heard one of the cops, who I have always gotten along with well, say to the drunk/disorderly husband of the patient I was working on "I should have shot you when I had the chance."

I think the cop in Ferguson messed up.     I think the riots in Ferguson have now taken on a life of their own.  

[Spotcheck Billy]

I think the riots in Ferguson have now taken on a life of their own. 

I wonder if it would still be going on in the streets if it was -20 outside

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yet he still managed to shoot Mike Brown in the head. Twice.

Interesting how you think that when the narrative changes it isn't suspicious at all. It's taken them more than a freaking week to come out with this! Oh and Gateway Pundit? Suuurreeeee.

You've clearly already tried and convicted the officer....irony.


This isn't an episode of CSI, things don't get wrapped up in a nice bow in 60 minutes.  Investigations take place, witnesses are interviewed, video taken, witnesses REINTERVIEWED, ballistics done, etc.  But that's ok, you already have the conspiracy well secured because it has taken too much time for the info to come out for you.  LOL.

I've said I don't know what happened, yet you seem to....interesting.  All I've said is there are other reports and the narrative changes.  A few days ago, you would have screamed at the top of your lungs he was shot in the back because "witnesses said so"....then two pesky autopsy reports came out...damn those pesky things....no shots in the back.

I'll keep waiting for the facts and watch as the narrative changes (which I suspect it will change back and forth), you keep convicting....you've already made up your mind.

[jesmu84]

The people doing the rioting and looting are just dumb. There is no reason to rob a convenience store because you're upset about police are handling a situation. Just dumb.

Can we just make it mandatory that cops have dash or vest cams now? 99% of all these incidences would be over quick with audio/video evidence one way or the other.

[Galway Eagle]

Chicos much of what you're saying puts you in a light where you've never had a problem with cops. Perhaps because you're a wasc? (not as catchy as wasp but essentially the same) I've been repeatedly hauled off in cuffs for blood tests because officers are convinced my Tourette's is me driving on cocaine. Now that's a white college educated male's reason to dislike cops.  Now let's imagine were an African American in a high crime area who's constantly getting stereotyped? I'm sorry but your constant going on of respect the cops and most are good etc. would be hard for me to follow I can't imagine how hard it would be for someone in say Brown's shoes.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

So basically, "don't exercise your first amendment rights, and I won't shoot you."

Nope, not basically....not at all.  He didn't say anything about shooting anyone.  Good try. 

Pretty simple, words my dad taught me long ago.  Cop tells you to do something, you do it.  Yes sir, yes maam.  If you disagree with them, then state so POLITELY.  It isn't hard.

Oh, and don't bumrush a cop, not a good idea.  Cops, by and large are there to protect and serve the public.  They take a lot of crap from a lot of a$$holes, unfortunately. 

[Aughnanure]

The people doing the rioting and looting are just dumb. There is no reason to rob a convenience store because you're upset about police are handling a situation. Just dumb.

Can we just make it mandatory that cops have dash or vest cams now? 99% of all these incidences would be over quick with audio/video evidence one way or the other.

It's people taking advantage of the situation, and police in tactical gear with mine-resistant vehicles along with the media coverage aren't making the late-night opportunity any less attractive to these people.

[Aughnanure]

You've clearly already tried and convicted the officer....irony.


This isn't an episode of CSI, things don't get wrapped up in a nice bow in 60 minutes.  Investigations take place, witnesses are interviewed, video taken, witnesses REINTERVIEWED, ballistics done, etc.  But that's ok, you already have the conspiracy well secured because it has taken too much time for the info to come out for you.  LOL.

I've said I don't know what happened, yet you seem to....interesting.  All I've said is there are other reports and the narrative changes.  A few days ago, you would have screamed at the top of your lungs he was shot in the back because "witnesses said so"....then two pesky autopsy reports came out...damn those pesky things....no shots in the back.

I'll keep waiting for the facts and watch as the narrative changes (which I suspect it will change back and forth), you keep convicting....you've already made up your mind.

And it's just amazing that these "investigations" always end up clearing the officer of charges. He might have to take a leave of absence with pay, oh no!

[GGGG]

Nope, not basically....not at all.  He didn't say anything about shooting anyone.  Good try.

Actually he did.  You just dishonestly snipped out that part of the quote, which I put in bold:

"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."

So in this guy's eyes, it's all up to the citizenry.  "DON'T PROVOKE ME OR I MAY HAVE TO RESPOND!!!!"  It's the Ray Rice defense of law enforcement.

And *this* is the guy who is teaching other cops???  F*cking scary.