Ferguson, MO

[jesmu84]

Thoughts on Ferguson and militarization of police: http://youtu.be/KUdHIatS36A

[brandx]

Thoughts on Ferguson and militarization of police: http://youtu.be/KUdHIatS36A

Outstanding segment.

Ferguson should not resemble Falujah!!

[ttheisen]

His wife, who is gorgeous.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gskZizjEak

Also, she is an Iraq War veteran who served as a US Army medic

[EDIT]Ack, didn't watch what the video was about prior to posting.

[Ari Gold]

Found Oliver's critique of how crapty payday loans are to be spot on

--
Wife is a good lookin gal too

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thoughts on Ferguson and militarization of police: http://youtu.be/KUdHIatS36A

Every 58 hours a cop is killed in this country in the line of duty.  I'd like to see Oliver be a cop and see what kind of protection he would like in going out on the streets.  Easy to be brave behind a camera.


This doesn't even get into assaults, that was merely deaths.  1,501 deaths to cops in 10 years, or 150 per year...about 1 every 58 hours.   For assaults, 58,261 assaults on cops the last ten years.  On average, 16 per day.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Every 58 hours a cop is killed in this country in the line of duty.  I'd like to see Oliver be a cop and see what kind of protection he would like in going out on the streets.  Easy to be brave behind a camera.


This doesn't even get into assaults, that was merely deaths.  1,501 deaths to cops in 10 years, or 150 per year...about 1 every 58 hours.   For assaults, 58,261 assaults on cops the last ten years.  On average, 16 per day.

Poor logic.

There could be 10 million cops killed per day, and it wouldn't mean this shooting was justified. It's an individual event.

I know it's impossible, but everybody (including the protesters) needs to wait and see what a federal investigation reveals.

Let's engage our brains and apply logic, not emotion.

EDIT: And as far as the police militarization and reaction to the protestors, I honestly don't know how to feel. I understand people's frustration because they think the deck is stacked against them, but I also understand the Police's need to exercise some muscle in order to prevent further rioting and damage. It's a tough situation. I really don't have a good answer.

[MUsoxfan]

Poor logic.

There could be 10 million cops killed per day, and it wouldn't mean this shooting was justified. It's an individual event.

I know it's impossible, but everybody (including the protesters) needs to wait and see what a federal investigation reveals.

Let's engage our brains and apply logic, not emotion.

It would mean more if communities got this upset about every unarmed kid that gets mowed down by gunfire on a daily basis. For some reason, it's only a big deal if a cop is involved.

A 15yr old kid got shot dead a block away from my office on the south side of Chicago last week. You'd think there would be outrage? Nope, just a few balloons, flowers and pics. It's mostly forgotten about already

When these shootings are all taken as seriously as the one in Ferguson, I can get on board with the outrage

[Benny B]

Poor logic.

There could be 10 million cops killed per day, and it wouldn't mean this shooting was justified. It's an individual event.

I know it's impossible, but everybody (including the protesters) needs to wait and see what a federal investigation reveals.

Let's engage our brains and apply logic, not emotion.

EDIT: And as far as the police militarization and reaction to the protestors, I honestly don't know how to feel. I understand people's frustration because they think the deck is stacked against them, but I also understand the Police's need to exercise some muscle in order to prevent further rioting and damage. It's a tough situation. I really don't have a good answer.

In approx. four decades of life, I have learned that getting to the bottom of the story - any story - is damn near impossible, even when you're an eye witness.  That said, you can get a pretty good idea of the truth simply by taking the opinion/position of any of the following individuals/groups and assuming the opposite to be true:

1) Labor Unions
2) Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson
3) "Conservative" talk radio
4) O.J. Simpson
5) Any blonde female that appears on Fox News
6) Hippies, especially those being interviewed from Burning Man
7) KCNA
8) Anyone who lists "activist" in their one-line bio.
9) Joan Rivers (hey... we need a center square, and Paul Lynde is dead)

Here... I'll take Al Sharpton for the block.

[GGGG]

It would mean more if communities got this upset about every unarmed kid that gets mowed down by gunfire on a daily basis. For some reason, it's only a big deal if a cop is involved.

"For some reason?"

The reason is that they are employees of the tax-payers, entrusted with keeping the public safe.  I expect the standard to be much higher for someone like that than for a common criminal.

I know it's impossible, but everybody (including the protesters) needs to wait and see what a federal investigation reveals.

Good luck.  My guess is that there is going to be something for either side to grab a hold on to justify their position.  For instance, maybe he rushed the cop.  But how far away was he?  Were six bullets necessary?

[Benny B]

"For some reason?"

The reason is that they are employees of the tax-payers, entrusted with keeping the public safe.  I expect the standard to be much higher for someone like that than for a common criminal.

So if the police aren't to your standards, who would be?  The military?
 

[GGGG]

So if the police aren't to your standards, who would be?  The military?

I am not understanding your question.

Most police are certainly up to "my standards."  I was commenting on why these types of shootings get more coverage than local criminals shooting one another. 

[Lennys Tap]

EDIT: And as far as the police militarization and reaction to the protestors, I honestly don't know how to feel. I understand people's frustration because they think the deck is stacked against them, but I also understand the Police's need to exercise some muscle in order to prevent further rioting and damage. It's a tough situation. I really don't have a good answer.

That's the hardest part of being a leader, Canned - finding the least bad alternative in a sea of bad ones. No matter what you do you get pilloried - kind of like when your choice at point guard is between.....well, I guess I won't go there.

[Henry Sugar]

Come on people, we all know where this is going. A discussion of Ferguson and race and police militarization? This will be productive and not at all political.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That's the hardest part of being a leader, Canned - finding the least bad alternative in a sea of bad ones. No matter what you do you get pilloried - kind of like when your choice at point guard is between.....well, I guess I won't go there.

Ya, I mean, honestly, I watched the news and I was arguing with myself.

I completely understand a community that is frustrated, reached a boiling point, and now is trying to stand up for itself (against a perceived injustice). I don't like the idea that protesters are facing cops in riot gear. Feels very Birmingham, doesn't it?

However, on the flip side, if you let that mob "protest" and take a hands off approach, it's likely to boil over and cause more damage that good. The riot gear may look bad, but cops in riot gear might have saved a lot of lives and damage.

Tough, tough spot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"For some reason?"

The reason is that they are employees of the tax-payers, entrusted with keeping the public safe.  I expect the standard to be much higher for someone like that than for a common criminal.


Good luck.  My guess is that there is going to be something for either side to grab a hold on to justify their position.  For instance, maybe he rushed the cop.  But how far away was he?  Were six bullets necessary?

You're right, we'll never get 100% certainty, but that doesn't mean intelligent people shouldn't search for the truth. Too easy to jump on (insert side) and rant and rave. Engage your brains, people.

[GGGG]

I basically never agree with this author about anything, but this time he is spot on.

http://www.steynonline.com/6524/cigars-but-not-close

"So, when the police are dressed like combat troops, it's not a fashion faux pas, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of who they are. Forget the armored vehicles with the gun turrets, forget the faceless, helmeted, anonymous Robocops, and just listen to how these "policemen" talk. Look at the video as they're arresting the New York Times and Huffington Post reporters. Watch the St Louis County deputy ordering everyone to leave, and then adding: "This is not up for discussion."

Really? You're a constable. You may be carrying on like the military commander of an occupying army faced with a rabble of revolting natives, but in the end you're a constable. And the fact that you and your colleagues in that McDonald's are comfortable speaking to your fellow citizens like this is part of the problem. The most important of the "nine principles of good policing" (formulated by the first two commissioners of the Metropolitan Police in 1829 and thereafter issued to every officer joining the force) is a very simple one: The police are the public and the public are the police. Not in Ferguson. Long before the teargassing begins and the bullets start flying, the way these guys talk is the first indication of how the remorseless militarization has corroded the soul of American policing."

[Aughnanure]

So if the police aren't to your standards, who would be?  The military?
 

Relevant.

Don't Call the Police "Militarized." The Military Is Better Than This.
http://gawker.com/dont-call-the-police-militarized-the-military-is-bet-1621523647

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I basically never agree with this author about anything, but this time he is spot on.

http://www.steynonline.com/6524/cigars-but-not-close

"So, when the police are dressed like combat troops, it's not a fashion faux pas, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of who they are. Forget the armored vehicles with the gun turrets, forget the faceless, helmeted, anonymous Robocops, and just listen to how these "policemen" talk. Look at the video as they're arresting the New York Times and Huffington Post reporters. Watch the St Louis County deputy ordering everyone to leave, and then adding: "This is not up for discussion."

Really? You're a constable. You may be carrying on like the military commander of an occupying army faced with a rabble of revolting natives, but in the end you're a constable. And the fact that you and your colleagues in that McDonald's are comfortable speaking to your fellow citizens like this is part of the problem. The most important of the "nine principles of good policing" (formulated by the first two commissioners of the Metropolitan Police in 1829 and thereafter issued to every officer joining the force) is a very simple one: The police are the public and the public are the police. Not in Ferguson. Long before the teargassing begins and the bullets start flying, the way these guys talk is the first indication of how the remorseless militarization has corroded the soul of American policing."

I agree with this, but it's still such a sticky situation.

In defense of the police, they act like the military in some ways out of necessity. I'm sure they aren't excited to wear riot gear and yell at people, but when people don't listen, they have to become more and more forceful. It's not a perfect approach, but let's be honest, when the crap hits the fan, these guys aren't existential thinkers.

It's a really complicated situation. That my only strong opinion. This crap is really complex, and I don't think there are any foolproof solutions.

[Bocephys]

[brandx]

Let's not view this as an isolated incident.

Rather, it is just another in a series of "isolated incidents" that have gone on continuously for 250+ years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Poor logic.

There could be 10 million cops killed per day, and it wouldn't mean this shooting was justified. It's an individual event.

I know it's impossible, but everybody (including the protesters) needs to wait and see what a federal investigation reveals.

Let's engage our brains and apply logic, not emotion.

EDIT: And as far as the police militarization and reaction to the protestors, I honestly don't know how to feel. I understand people's frustration because they think the deck is stacked against them, but I also understand the Police's need to exercise some muscle in order to prevent further rioting and damage. It's a tough situation. I really don't have a good answer.

I didn't say a word about the shooting, you did.

Personally, I'm going to wait until ALL the facts come in.  What I've seen so far, from people like Chris Hayes, Al, and others, is they can't wait to convict someone before ALL the facts come in.

Here's what I've seen so far during the electronic lynching:

Witnesses claim he was shot in the back, autopsy (two of them) show he wasn't.  Oops.  Narrative changing.

Narrative about what an angel this guy was....he was going to college afterall.  Robbed a store minutes prior to getting killed, had a juvenile arrest record, illegal drugs in system.  Ooops.  Narrative keeps changing.

Media claims rubber bullets fired at demonstrators...."rubber bullets" turn out to be ear plugs.  Sensational journalism.

Does this justify his death?  Nope.  I don't know what happened, YOU don't know what happened.  You don't know if the shooting was justified any more than I do.  Let the facts come out, instead a whole lot of people can't wait to bury this guy and convict him.  Meanwhile, over the weekend another 9 African Americans shot and killed by African Americans in Chicago....crickets...crickets...crickets....

In the meantime, some good advice from a cop who teaches other cops.  "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."  Pretty simple.  You bum rush a cop, you're going to get hurt.  Respect the cops, do what they say to do., simple credo to live by.  There are some bad cops out there, but most are not.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ya, I mean, honestly, I watched the news and I was arguing with myself.

I completely understand a community that is frustrated, reached a boiling point, and now is trying to stand up for itself (against a perceived injustice). I don't like the idea that protesters are facing cops in riot gear. Feels very Birmingham, doesn't it?

Also great when a majority of the "protestors" causing trouble aren't from Ferguson, but bussed in.  What would Nancy call this....astroturfing?   

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're right, we'll never get 100% certainty, but that doesn't mean intelligent people shouldn't search for the truth. Too easy to jump on (insert side) and rant and rave. Engage your brains, people.

I love Sultan's "six bullets necessary"....I read stuff like that and can only think this is a person that has NEVER shot a pistol in his life.  Do you know how long it takes to squeeze off 6 rounds?  About 2 seconds.  When the blood is flowing, and if the guys is being bum rushed (I don't know if that is the case, IF), that 2 seconds will feel like 2 nanoseconds.  Furthermore you are trained to stop the guy.  If he is still moving toward you, you keep shooting and center mass.

I actually saw a few shows on MSNBC talking about how the cop should shoot for the legs.  OMG.  No police force in the USA EVER is taught to shoot for the legs.  CENTER MASS, every time.  These people have been watching too much television and don't deal in reality. 

I'd recommend for Sultan and others to educate themselves a bit, on why 6 bullets are used.  http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/opinion/haberfeld-why-six-bullets-fired/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

[ChicosBailBonds]

From a friend:

There will be no winners. The prosecutor is racist if he doesn't put up some kind of murder charge, the cop is a murderer forever, the kid will always be seen as a robbing/assaulting druggie that got shot for attacking a cop, the little police dept will be seen as racist and inept because they couldn't, overnight, handle thousands of protestors, thousands of media and the race industry dropping out of heaven into their back yard, the residents will be seen as savage criminals waiting to steal, loot and destroy for no good reason. Every white-black/left-right stereotype is being reinforced in this event and it will result in one big nothing. Lets hope supporters of the police don't show up on scene to counterbalance this fiasco, then it could turn into an all out free for all....and really good TV

[LAZER]

In the meantime, some good advice from a cop who teaches other cops.  "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."  Pretty simple.  You bum rush a cop, you're going to get hurt.  Respect the cops, do what they say to do., simple credo to live by.  There are some bad cops out there, but most are not.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z2

This is why everyone hates cops.