Tebow/Manziel

[MU82]

There have been accusations that some "hate" Tim Tebow just because he's a Christian. I suppose some do. I also suppose that most criticized Tebow - which is much different from hating him - because he was a borderline incompetent QB who nonetheless received hype that should have been reserved for the Bradys, Mannings, Breeses, etc.

Now here comes Manziel. I don't hate him, either. But I don't get the infatuation with him, especially by ESPN. With all the sports news out there today - including Rory leading yet another major - Manziel playing OK in a preseason game was the lead story.

As was the case with Tebow a few years ago, Manziel's jersey is the No. 1 seller.

Now, Manziel definitely has better QBing skills than Tebow and almost can't possibly be a worse pro. But I have serious questions about his ability to play in the NFL. And I think we can all agree Manziel is not exactly a model Christian!

[MUeng]

Don't forget, tebow won a game playoff game and is arguably the greatest college fball player of all time.

[keefe]

Don't forget, tebow won a game playoff game and is arguably the greatest college fball player of all time.

You mean besides Tom Harmon.

[rocket surgeon]

who says manziel isn't christian?  it was heard one night coming from behind closed doors of his apartment after a long night of drink with his girlfriend, manziel screaming out to the Lord...oh God oh God, yes yes yes oh Jesus wow, how you do the things you do, oh God oh God take me now...so i take that to mean he is either a "closet christian" or had some kind of out of body catharsis.  maybe his girl(one of them) is very religious and converted him? 

[GGGG]

I don't get the hype either, but Manziel's Heisman year may have been one of the most exciting seasons I have seen out of a player.  I don't think it translates well to the NFL, but he was pretty incredible.

[MU82]

I don't get the hype either, but Manziel's Heisman year may have been one of the most exciting seasons I have seen out of a player.  I don't think it translates well to the NFL, but he was pretty incredible.

Manziel and Tebow were both phenomenal and exciting college quarterbacks.

The NFL is littered with the carcasses of those!

If Manziel succeeds, I'll be mildly surprised - and it certainly won't be the first time I've been wrong. Heck, it won't be the first time I've been wrong this week!

And if Manziel fails, he will get ripped. And it will be refreshing that he - like Rex Grossman, JaMarcus Russell and countless others - will be ripped because he stinks. As is the case with Tebow for most.

[NersEllenson]

Manziel just has that "it" quality.  He's charismatic.  Watching him play at A&M was truly a joy - far more exciting player than Tebow.  Think he stands a far better chance to succeed in NFL than Tebow as well.  Totally different throwing motion...much quicker on his feet, faster too.  He plays fast in pads. 

Manziel looked really good last night in my opinion for his first pro game.  Did some really nice things.  Should have been 9 of 11, if not for two drops.

Not saying he'll be a star in the league - hard to say as I see him being classic Boom or Bust type - but if I had to bet, I certainly wouldn't bet against him and put his chances at success much better than failure.

Staying healthy will be his biggest challenge - but he has the elusiveness and instincts to avoid huge hits.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Manziel and Tebow were both phenomenal and exciting college quarterbacks.

The NFL is littered with the carcasses of those!

If Manziel succeeds, I'll be mildly surprised - and it certainly won't be the first time I've been wrong. Heck, it won't be the first time I've been wrong this week!

And if Manziel fails, he will get ripped. And it will be refreshing that he - like Rex Grossman, JaMarcus Russell and countless others - will be ripped because he stinks. As is the case with Tebow for most.

Ripping Tebow because he wasn't a good pro football player is fine.  Ripping him because he was a Christian...that's what got people upset.  Let's face it, if Tebow was a Muslim and a newspaper or media took cracks at his faith like so many did incessantly at Tebow, the outrage would be off the charts.  Of course, the reality is the media would never go after his faith if he was Muslim, but as a Christian it was ok to attack and attack.  That double standard also pissed a lot of people off. 

Tebow was a great college football player with no off the field issues.  Manziel was a great college football player with some issues.  If Manziel can get his off the field stuff together, then things will be ok.  He has the flare, might have the game, certainly has the confidence.  I wish him well.

[brandx]

Don't forget, tebow won a game playoff game and is arguably the greatest college fball player of all time.

Had to be either Tebow or some other white guy.

[TheBurrEffect]

Tebow was a great college football player with no off the field issues.  Manziel was a great college football player with some issues.  If Manziel can get his off the field stuff together, then things will be ok.  He has the flare, might have the game, certainly has the confidence.  I wish him well.

To be honest Manziel's "off field issues" were very minor and overblown. The kid got caught drinking under age, like 10 million other teens per year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

To be honest Manziel's "off field issues" were very minor and overblown. The kid got caught drinking under age, like 10 million other teens per year.

A bit more than that.  He was suspended, cash for autographs, had at least one incident on campus with his $50K BMW, more than a few unflattering photos including one last month that raised more than a few eyebrows.  Do I think they are overblown, maybe, but let's not pretend it was just drinking under age.

Did those types of issues come up with Tebow?  Not that I can remember, but he was Christian so that's typically bad enough.

[TheBurrEffect]

A bit more than that.  He was suspended, cash for autographs, had at least one incident on campus with his $50K BMW, more than a few unflattering photos including one last month that raised more than a few eyebrows.  Do I think they are overblown, maybe, but let's not pretend it was just drinking under age.

Did those types of issues come up with Tebow?  Not that I can remember, but he was Christian so that's typically bad enough.

He was suspended due to the incident with drinking, the autograph thing is just ridiculous, as we all know. Now by incident on campus, do you mean accident? And photos? Were talking photos now? Let's not pretend Manziel is having issues that other NFL players have, such as murder, rape, assault, assault with deadly weapons, drugs, more drugs, some more rape, and then some more drugs on top of that. Let's not overblow photos and autograph's with the likes of Ray Lewis, Big ben, Sharper, etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He was suspended due to the incident with drinking, the autograph thing is just ridiculous, as we all know. Now by incident on campus, do you mean accident? And photos? Were talking photos now? Let's not pretend Manziel is having issues that other NFL players have, such as murder, rape, assault, assault with deadly weapons, drugs, more drugs, some more rape, and then some more drugs on top of that. Let's not overblow photos and autograph's with the likes of Ray Lewis, Big ben, Sharper, etc.

Not remotely saying he is having issues like those other players.   This thread was about Tebow and Manziel, not Lewis, Big Ben, Sharper.

My point was, no off field issues with Tebow.  None.  Yes, there were off field issues with Manziel, some because of his popularity, some because he wasn't very smart.

Which suspension?  He was suspended for half of one game for autograph payments, not because of drinking.  Was it ridiculous...who knows.  Those were the rules, he knew the rules.  You may not like the rules, the Judge in California doesn't like the rules, but at the time those were the rules.  He was suspended also for a fight in a bar with a 47 year old man...that led to Manziel's famous mug shot with no shirt on.  For the record, I think Manziel was the peacemaker in that dust up, or at least that was the intent.



I wish the kid well, but in comparing him with Tebow on the off field stuff, I don't see a comparison.

[wadesworld]

He was suspended due to the incident with drinking, the autograph thing is just ridiculous, as we all know. Now by incident on campus, do you mean accident? And photos? Were talking photos now? Let's not pretend Manziel is having issues that other NFL players have, such as murder, rape, assault, assault with deadly weapons, drugs, more drugs, some more rape, and then some more drugs on top of that. Let's not overblow photos and autograph's with the likes of Ray Lewis, Big ben, Sharper, etc.

While his issues (that we know of) do not include rape, murder, or weapons, I'm fairly confident in guessing that Manziel has done plenty of drugs in his young life.  The guy comes from a family that uses the the Doctor4Never strategy of wiping their ass with $100 bills (which is why if the issue with the $50,000 BMW that Chicos is referring to is just the fact that Manziel was driving an expensive car around as a college kid so he must've gotten some sort of cash benefits from someone that's just not true, but I don't know what the issue was with that so maybe there is more to the story).

Can't stand the guy, and I couldn't really stand Tebow either.  But I think the biggest problem I had with Tebow is all the attention he got from the media, and that really isn't his fault (nor is it Manziel's fault that he gets all the media attention now).  Manziel I don't like mainly because he's not a smart football player and he's just a douchey "bro."  I would not mind seeing him have a career like Tebow's.  Neither of them are going to to be broke shortly after being jobless in the NFL, they both have other funds that will continue to come in.

P.S. Tebow might be one of the best college football players ever, but there are quite a few players who might have something to say about that.  Vince Young is up there (Packers should've kept him last year!).

[CTWarrior]

As bad as Tim Tebow was, he could not possibly have been worse than Mark Sanchez in 2012.  I'm pretty sure the Jets didn't play him for fear that he'd win a few games and make it harder for them to go in a different direction, which they are correctly doing.

My friends who are very knowledgeable football fans don't seem too high on Manziel.  He's the most exciting college QB since Michael Vick, I think.  People forget how amazing that guy was in college because of his more recent issues.

[brandx]

While his issues (that we know of) do not include rape, murder, or weapons, I'm fairly confident in guessing that Manziel has done plenty of drugs in his young life.  The guy comes from a family that uses the the Doctor4Never strategy of wiping their ass with $100 bills (which is why if the issue with the $50,000 BMW that Chicos is referring to is just the fact that Manziel was driving an expensive car around as a college kid so he must've gotten some sort of cash benefits from someone that's just not true, but I don't know what the issue was with that so maybe there is more to the story).

Can't stand the guy, and I couldn't really stand Tebow either.  But I think the biggest problem I had with Tebow is all the attention he got from the media, and that really isn't his fault (nor is it Manziel's fault that he gets all the media attention now).  Manziel I don't like mainly because he's not a smart football player and he's just a douchey "bro."  I would not mind seeing him have a career like Tebow's.  Neither of them are going to to be broke shortly after being jobless in the NFL, they both have other funds that will continue to come in.

P.S. Tebow might be one of the best college football players ever, but there are quite a few players who might have something to say about that.  Vince Young is up there (Packers should've kept him last year!).

Need to put it in teal. People take things too literal otherwise

[wadesworld]

Need to put it in teal. People take things too literal otherwise

Only the Packers keeping him part was half sarcastic.  They shuffled through a lot of quarterbacks when Rodgers went down, and he would've been a better fill in than Scott Tolizien was by that point in the season.

Young was an absolutely incredible college football player.  One of the best to play in college.  Obviously that didn't translate well to the next level.

[brandx]

Only the Packers keeping him part was half sarcastic.  They shuffled through a lot of quarterbacks when Rodgers went down, and he would've been a better fill in than Scott Tolizien was by that point in the season.

Young was an absolutely incredible college football player.  One of the best to play in college.  Obviously that didn't translate well to the next level.

Wades, that was the part I meant.

Young was a great college player, but with some of the styles of offense run in college, these guys are in no way prepared for the NFL. It's why so few of the top NFL QBs are from the "football factory" schools.

[MU82]

Ripping Tebow because he wasn't a good pro football player is fine.  Ripping him because he was a Christian...that's what got people upset.  Let's face it, if Tebow was a Muslim and a newspaper or media took cracks at his faith like so many did incessantly at Tebow, the outrage would be off the charts.  Of course, the reality is the media would never go after his faith if he was Muslim, but as a Christian it was ok to attack and attack.  That double standard also pissed a lot of people off. 

Tebow was a great college football player with no off the field issues.  Manziel was a great college football player with some issues.  If Manziel can get his off the field stuff together, then things will be ok.  He has the flare, might have the game, certainly has the confidence.  I wish him well.

I absolutely will grant you that some people ripped Tebow for his Christianity, and I also grant you that those people were/are jerks (while still allowing that there's a difference between poking a little fun and ripping).

Now, will you grant me that there have been some folks who hear any criticism of Tebow and immediately accuse the critic of ripping Tebow because he is Christian ... even if the critic never mentioned Christianity or anything having to do with Tebow's morality?

See, that's my beef.

Me: Tebow was overhyped and was one of the worst NFL QBs I've seen in a long, long time.

Dope: You just hate him because he's a devout Christian.

Down with dopes!

[brandx]

I absolutely will grant you that some people ripped Tebow for his Christianity, and I also grant you that those people were/are jerks (while still allowing that there's a difference between poking a little fun and ripping).

Now, will you grant me that there have been some folks who hear any criticism of Tebow and immediately accuse the critic of ripping Tebow because he is Christian ... even if the critic never mentioned Christianity or anything having to do with Tebow's morality?

See, that's my beef.

Me: Tebow was overhyped and was one of the worst NFL QBs I've seen in a long, long time.

Dope: You just hate him because he's a devout Christian.

Down with dopes!

I disagree with the bolded part a little bit. I think it was more than that. I really think the hatred was because the Right adopted him as their christian and blindly defended him despite the rest of what you wrote.

As I have stated earlier, I have met and talked with him a couple times and he didn't seem any different than any other 23 year old. Very cocky (which is to be expected from a pro athlete), but a good, caring guy.

Typical, young guy around the women as well when we were doing some pics. Seemed like he appreciated the better things in life in that area.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I absolutely will grant you that some people ripped Tebow for his Christianity, and I also grant you that those people were/are jerks (while still allowing that there's a difference between poking a little fun and ripping).

Now, will you grant me that there have been some folks who hear any criticism of Tebow and immediately accuse the critic of ripping Tebow because he is Christian ... even if the critic never mentioned Christianity or anything having to do with Tebow's morality?

See, that's my beef.

Me: Tebow was overhyped and was one of the worst NFL QBs I've seen in a long, long time.

Dope: You just hate him because he's a devout Christian.

Down with dopes!

Yup, agree with you.  Though I would argue most people that are sane can argue on the merits of his football playing ability and there typically isn't much of a defense of it. 

Whether he was one of the worst NFL QBs, I think that's overstated.  He has a lifetime passer rating of 75.3....just for giggles, that was better than Super Bowl QB's Joe Flacco, Eli Manning last year (no way am I comparing him to them, just saying that guys have had clunker seasons worse than Tebow's all time marks, and those clunkers were had by some mega players).  Farve, Hasselbeck, Bulger, Stafford, Delhomme, etc, etc have all had worse ratings than that just in the last 5 years.  He was not good, but plenty of guys have been that "bad".

[mu-rara]

I disagree with the bolded part a little bit. I think it was more than that. I really think the hatred was because the Right adopted him as their christian and blindly defended him despite the rest of what you wrote.

As I have stated earlier, I have met and talked with him a couple times and he didn't seem any different than any other 23 year old. Very cocky (which is to be expected from a pro athlete), but a good, caring guy.

Typical, young guy around the women as well when we were doing some pics. Seemed like he appreciated the better things in life in that area.

Could it be that we appreciated his skill playing college football?

[brandx]

Could it be that we appreciated his skill playing college football?

I think most of us appreciated his skill playing college football.

But we knew he wasn't an NFL QB and didn't like being told we were stupid.

[mu-rara]

I think most of us appreciated his skill playing college football.

But we knew he wasn't an NFL QB and didn't like being told we were stupid.

Who was telling you that you were stupid?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who was telling you that you were stupid?

He wasn't an NFL QB....despite having a rating of 75.3?  I sense they were saying Brand was stupid for a litany of other things.