Heldt Article

[pmills]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2014/07/04/butch-helping-heldt/12235181/

[Blackhat]

Good for Butch.   Maybe McIllvaine can stop by and show them both something.

[TedBaxter]

Good for Butch.   Maybe McIllvaine can stop by and show them both something.

If McIlvaine would have had Butch's offensive skills, he would have lasted longer in the league.

[Skatastrophy]

If McIlvaine would have had Butch's offensive skills, he would have lasted longer in the league.

If Butch were good he would have made it to the league.

[HutchwasClutch]

If McIlvaine would have had Butch's offensive skills, he would have lasted longer in the league.

His offensive skills?!?!  What exactly are you referring to, his one season (fifth season at that) where he averaged double figures scoring at a whopping 12 ppg?

[HutchwasClutch]

If Butch were good he would have made it to the league.

+1, he was a total stiff.

[MUMonster03]

If McIlvaine would have had Butch's offensive skills, he would have lasted longer in the league.

Wasn't McIlvaine's problem desire not skills? If I remember correctly he walked away from a decent contract.

[HutchwasClutch]

Wasn't McIlvaine's problem desire not skills? If I remember correctly he walked away from a decent contract.

He impresses me as a guy with many interests other than basketball, but he was a key figure in the rebirth of MU basketball and the '94 Sweet 16 season, and played several years in the NBA.    Not too shabby I'd say.   He may have walked away from the NBA when he no longer was going to get paid big to play, but I don't recall him leaving a good contract/ big bucks on the table.

[Dawson Rental]

Wasn't McIlvaine's problem desire not skills? If I remember correctly he walked away from a decent contract.

No.

[We R Final Four]

Wasn't McIlvaine's problem desire not skills? If I remember correctly he walked away from a decent contract.

No--that was Spree.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

+1, he was a total stiff.

I'm sorry, but McIlvaine was also a stiff

[keefe]

I'm sorry, but McIlvaine was also a stiff

People in Seattle point to the McIlvaine signing as the beginning of the end for the Sonics. Remove the hyperbole and it did undermine what was a championship caliber team. 

[HutchwasClutch]

I'm sorry, but McIlvaine was also a stiff

McIllvaine offered little offensively, and was an ok rebounder.  But he was a tremendous shot blocker, not to mention all of the other shots he altered, or guys that settled for a jumper versus driving into the lane with him waiting there.  He carved a niche for himself based on that and cashed in.  Some stiff.

[keefe]

McIllvaine offered little offensively, and was an ok rebounder.  But he was a tremendous shot blocker, not to mention all of the other shots he altered, or guys that settled for a jumper versus driving into the lane with him waiting there.  He carved a niche for himself based on that and cashed in.  Some stiff.

Bottom line is the guy is set financially with multi-generational wealth.

[AZWarrior]

Bottom line is the guy is set financially with multi-generational wealth.

And unlike many NBAers, I suspect he won't be pissing that wealth away.

Plus, he got under dear departed coach's skin at least once, so he's got that going for him as well.   

[ATL MU Warrior]

McIllvaine offered little offensively, and was an ok rebounder.  But he was a tremendous shot blocker, not to mention all of the other shots he altered, or guys that settled for a jumper versus driving into the lane with him waiting there.  He carved a niche for himself based on that and cashed in.  Some stiff.

There is no stat for this therefore it does not exist.

[keefe]

There is no stat for this therefore it does not exist.

There was a dude named Bill Russell who made a rather nice living doing that for which there is no measurement.

People speak of Michael Jordan as being the greatest because he has 6 rings. Mr Russell has 11 in 13 years. Prodigious. Throw in the fact that Russell's character and behavior stand in stark contrast to the moral ambiguity of Jordan and it is no contest.

[ATL MU Warrior]

There was a dude named Bill Russell who made a rather nice living doing that for which there is no measurement.

People speak of Michael Jordan as being the greatest because he has 6 rings. Mr Russell has 11 in 13 years. Prodigious. Throw in the fact that Russell's character and behavior stand in stark contrast to the moral ambiguity of Jordan and it is no contest.

I agree 100%.  My post was supposed to be sarcasm.

[keefe]

I agree 100%.  My post was supposed to be sarcasm.

Lanta.

We are in full agreement. I was reinforcing your point for others.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

McIllvaine offered little offensively, and was an ok rebounder.  But he was a tremendous shot blocker, not to mention all of the other shots he altered, or guys that settled for a jumper versus driving into the lane with him waiting there.  He carved a niche for himself based on that and cashed in.  Some stiff.

Was Manute Bol a stiff?

[dgies9156]

If Brian Butch had come to Marquette, God knows how good we would have been.

Glad the young man is getting good tutoring. Thanks Brian! Let's see what happens.

[HutchwasClutch]

Was Manute Bol a stiff?

I know you're asking this rhetorically, but come on, the guy's "talent" was being 7' 7".  You can't help but swat a lot of shots when you're a minimum of 6-7 inches taller than everyone else on the court. 

I really don't get your desire to tear Mac down?  I'm not saying he's the be all, end all of big men by a long shot, and yes, the Sonics signed him to a ridiculous contract, but the guy had a knack for blocking shots.  Yes, he was 7'1", but there are a lot of seven footers who can only block shots by accident.

And again, his impact at MU was enormous.  He was one of the main cogs that got us back to prominence.  I'd take another McIllvaine in a heartbeat at MU.  Plus his scoring and rebounding MU stats weren't bad at all, especially considering what he gave MU at the defensive end. 

[brandx]

There was a dude named Bill Russell who made a rather nice living doing that for which there is no measurement.

People speak of Michael Jordan as being the greatest because he has 6 rings. Mr Russell has 11 in 13 years. Prodigious. Throw in the fact that Russell's character and behavior stand in stark contrast to the moral ambiguity of Jordan and it is no contest.

Character-wise - no contest.

As players - no contest as well in the other direction.

The question is who was the 2nd greatest player ever. Russell or Kareem?

[mileskishnish72]

The greatest ever wore number 6 - and he never had to take a season off to let his gambling situation cool down. And it was ONLY 11 of 13 'cuz he had an ankle injury vs. St. Louis.

[keefe]

Character-wise - no contest.

As players - no contest as well in the other direction.

The question is who was the 2nd greatest player ever. Russell or Kareem?

Russell over Kareem. But we are down to splitting the short and curlies on this one.

As for Jordan over Russell? I still go with Bill Russell. Because he was the consummate team player and defined winning. And character does matter.