Per Mark Miller... Matt Heldt just committed to MU

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ha - There isn't one...can't think of one since Barkley...that's what makes Deonte so special...it is extremely rare you get a guy with his athleticism in his body type/frame.  Wojo is drooling over coaching Deonte.  Practically said as much.  Highlighted Deonte as being a kid with a very high ceiling...when asked his early impressions.

I don't think saying there hasn't been a guy since Barkley helps your case, BTW.

Also, comparing Burton to Barkley is like comparing Travis to John Stockton. Might need to hold off on the Hall of Fame comparisons.

[Class71]

Ners, you can make the same argument for Davante, using his mass and bulk to get his shot off against bigger defenders.    At the end of the day, he struggled getting shots off against athletic bigs.  And his draft status reflects that.   Deonte is going to have to be able to get his shot off against equally athletic players 3-4-5-6 inches bigger than he is on a consistent basis to make it to the league.   IMO, like Davante, he is going to be as very good college basketball player, one that I am thrilled to have at MU.  But I will be shocked if he gets to the league... UNLESS...he learns to finish equally well with either hand in traffic, gets a lot better and quicker with his jump shot, and improves his handle drastically.   

If he develops an outside shot IMHO he can make the NBA as a 2.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Looks like Ners has a new topic to post obsessively about. 

[NersEllenson]

Looks like Ners has a new topic to post obsessively about. 

Looks like you still obsess about me...though your contribution of meeting Charles briefly was a nice addition to this thread.  Let me know if you want any Deonte to the NBA action.

[hoops12]

I don't think saying there hasn't been a guy since Barkley helps your case, BTW.

Also, comparing Burton to Barkley is like comparing Travis to John Stockton. Might need to hold off on the Hall of Fame comparisons.

I found this article from several years ago. Look what some knowledgeable people said about Diener. With the right club, Diener could have done some special things in the NBA. Like anyone, it has to be the right fit at the right time.


"If I could play in the league, he can play in the league," Bulls general manager John Paxson said. "He's better than I ever was."

Houston coach Tom Penders agreed.

"He reminds me of John Stockton the way he runs a game, and he can really shoot," he said. "If he learns to run the pick-and-roll the way Stockton did, he'll play in the league for a long time."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-08/sports/0503080280_1_marquette-career-travis-diener-basketball-court

[brandx]

If he develops an outside shot IMHO he can make the NBA as a 2.

No it won't.

In the NBA, you are what you can defend. Deonte is not a 2.

And we haven't even talked about his ball-handling yet.

[brandx]

I found this article from several years ago. Look what some knowledgeable people said about Diener. With the right club, Diener could have done some special things in the NBA. Like anyone, it has to be the right fit at the right time.


"If I could play in the league, he can play in the league," Bulls general manager John Paxson said. "He's better than I ever was."

Houston coach Tom Penders agreed.

"He reminds me of John Stockton the way he runs a game, and he can really shoot," he said. "If he learns to run the pick-and-roll the way Stockton did, he'll play in the league for a long time."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-08/sports/0503080280_1_marquette-career-travis-diener-basketball-court

He played for 3 different teams in the NBA and did nothing special.

Paxson never bothered to acquire Travis when he was in charge of the Bulls, so he wasn't as high on him as he says he was.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Looks like you still obsess about me...though your contribution of meeting Charles briefly was a nice addition to this thread.  Let me know if you want any Deonte to the NBA action.

I just like to have fun with you Ners. 

Let's let this year play out.  We'll know a lot more about Deonte after this season.

[MU82]

He played for 3 different teams in the NBA and did nothing special.

Paxson never bothered to acquire Travis when he was in charge of the Bulls, so he wasn't as high on him as he says he was.

This. Of course.

Just because he was great for us, doesn't mean he can be great in the NBA, people. I want our guys to do wonderfully, too, but we have a long history of outstanding college players -- Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Bernard Toone, Oliver Lee, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson, Brian Wardle, Aaron Hutchins, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner and many, many others -- who simply weren't NBA material. Some got a cup of coffee. Some didn't even get a sip. And that's normal, because hundreds of other programs can say the same.

Moral of the story: It's effen hard to make it in the NBA! Butch was national player of the year, for cripe's sake. Jerel was an All-American. And now we're actually debating Deonte's chances (within a Matt Heldt thread, BTW)? Wow.

I'll settle for him not fouling out too many times, playing decent D and scoring 15 ppg before I start even mentioning his name and the Association in the same sentence again.

[NersEllenson]

This. Of course.

Just because he was great for us, doesn't mean he can be great in the NBA, people. I want our guys to do wonderfully, too, but we have a long history of outstanding college players -- Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Bernard Toone, Oliver Lee, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson, Brian Wardle, Aaron Hutchins, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner and many, many others -- who simply weren't NBA material. Some got a cup of coffee. Some didn't even get a sip. And that's normal, because hundreds of other programs can say the same.

Moral of the story: It's effen hard to make it in the NBA! Butch was national player of the year, for cripe's sake. Jerel was an All-American. And now we're actually debating Deonte's chances (within a Matt Heldt thread, BTW)? Wow.

I'll settle for him not fouling out too many times, playing decent D and scoring 15 ppg before I start even mentioning his name and the Association in the same sentence again.

Good post...good points 82.  Hard to argue with any of them.  Part of the fun of this message board is to speculate and extrapolate how guys will be down the road.  Is it premature perhaps?  Yes.  Fun?  Sure. 

Nonetheless...like another poster said...I too believe Burton is the best prospect I've seen at MU since Wade.  IT was clear to everyone early and often that Wade had "it."  Think most here see that similar quality in Deonte.  Buzz greatly hampered Deonte last year...we only saw a tiny glimpse of what he's capable of....watch what happens when he gets 25 minutes per game, consistently.

[brandx]

Good post...good points 82.  Hard to argue with any of them.  Part of the fun of this message board is to speculate and extrapolate how guys will be down the road.  Is it premature perhaps?  Yes.  Fun?  Sure. 

Nonetheless...like another poster said...I too believe Burton is the best prospect I've seen at MU since Wade.  IT was clear to everyone early and often that Wade had "it."  Think most here see that similar quality in Deonte.  Buzz greatly hampered Deonte last year...we only saw a tiny glimpse of what he's capable of....watch what happens when he gets 25 minutes per game, consistently.

Ners, I agree with you that Deonte wii be a very good player at MU. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he makes a couple all-BE teams before he graduates.

But I don't see anything that tells me he will be an NBA player. Talent and desire may be there, but there are serious size limitations in play.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I agree with you that Deonte wii be a very good player at MU. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he makes a couple all-BE teams before he graduates.

But I don't see anything that tells me he will be an NBA player. Talent and desire may be there, but there are serious size limitations in play.

Fair point...and similar to others.  My contention is, however, that of all the talent needed to play in the NBA - so long as you are 6'0"+ - that height is the least important quality...particularly once you are over the 6'3" mark.  The combination of weight/girth paired with elite level athleticism...is a rare combo...and in my view trumps say 3 to 4 more inches of height...which in Deonte's case would put him in the prototypical 3 height of 6'7 - 6'8".  If Deonte can become a solid/consistent perimeter shooter...I have zero doubt he'll make the NBA and be a very good player.

I hated playing guys that were physically stronger/thicker/more athletic than me...even if they were a few inches shorter.  Much more difficult to defend...and to also abuse on the other end.

[MU82]

If Deonte can become a solid/consistent perimeter shooter...I have zero doubt he'll make the NBA and be a very good player.

We certainly agree on this. We also can apply it to thousands of others throughout history. How good a pro would Mateen Cleeves have been if he could have made shots? Or Dom James for that matter? And so on and so on.

Making shots is basketball's equivalent to hitting a curve ball or making putts. So yeah, if Deonte becomes a reliable shooter, I suppose he has a chance ... but he still will have a huge obstacle to overcome height-wise.

[GGGG]

nm

[GGGG]

Fair point...and similar to others.  My contention is, however, that of all the talent needed to play in the NBA - so long as you are 6'0"+ - that height is the least important quality...particularly once you are over the 6'3" mark.  The combination of weight/girth paired with elite level athleticism...is a rare combo...and in my view trumps say 3 to 4 more inches of height...which in Deonte's case would put him in the prototypical 3 height of 6'7 - 6'8".  If Deonte can become a solid/consistent perimeter shooter...I have zero doubt he'll make the NBA and be a very good player.

We'll see.  I am not sure Deonte's athleticism is all that "elite" when compared to the NBA. 

[bilsu]

We'll see.  I am not sure Deonte's athleticism is all that "elite" when compared to the NBA. 

That is the point. I am not sure he is even as athletic as DJO was and DJO was not athletic enough.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That is the point. I am not sure he is even as athletic as DJO was and DJO was not athletic enough.

Actually, that's an interesting comp.

DJO was strong, explosive, quick, creative.

But, he wasn't stronger, more explosive, quicker or move creative than most NBA players. So, he had to be able to shoot it really well (and defend) in order to stick in the league.

Deonte is a physical freak at the college level. At the NBA level, he's not so freaky. He'll have to have some elite basketball skills (shooting, ball-handling, rebounding, defense) in order to stick. Being really athletic isn't enough at that size.

[NersEllenson]

That is the point. I am not sure he is even as athletic as DJO was and DJO was not athletic enough.

DJO hasn't made the league because he isn't athletic enough...that has nothing to do with why he isn't in the league.  He isn't a PG...and he's too short for shooting guard.  He isn't a freak (weight wise) for his position either.  Deonte and DJO aren't a good comparison.  Furthermore...DJO doesn't play with good rhythm either, plays very upright as well...Burton is a much more fluid athlete.  Plus he outweighs DJO by about 30 LBS...and that's a big deal.

[NersEllenson]

We'll see.  I am not sure Deonte's athleticism is all that "elite" when compared to the NBA. 

You miss the point....it is the combination of his athleticism at his weight that make him unique/elite.  There aren't many 240-250lbs 6'4" guys who can explode the way Deonte can.  That combo is dynamite and brutal to try to guard...even if you are 6'7/6'8"  220 like most NBA 3's.

[GGGG]

That combo is dynamite and brutal to try to guard...even if you are 6'7/6'8"  220 like most NBA 3's.

I don't know.  6'4" is pretty damn short to be a decent SF in the NBA.  I would think that unless he develops a better outside game, that his pro career will be pretty limited. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

DJO hasn't made the league because he isn't athletic enough...that has nothing to do with why he isn't in the league.  He isn't a PG...and he's too short for shooting guard.  He isn't a freak (weight wise) for his position either.  Deonte and DJO aren't a good comparison.  Furthermore...DJO doesn't play with good rhythm either, plays very upright as well...Burton is a much more fluid athlete.  Plus he outweighs DJO by about 30 LBS...and that's a big deal.

DJO would be a pretty physical PG, but the problem is, he isn't a PG.

Deonte would be a bruising SG, the problem is he is a PF/SF.

I LOVE Deonte, but I think you're underestimating the athleticism in the NBA. It's REALLLLY tough to make the league, and it's even tougher if you don't fit the prototypical body type/position.

It's certainly not impossible, but it's RARE.

[GooooMarquette]

Just because he was great for us, doesn't mean he can be great in the NBA, people. I want our guys to do wonderfully, too, but we have a long history of outstanding college players -- Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Bernard Toone, Oliver Lee, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson, Brian Wardle, Aaron Hutchins, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner and many, many others -- who simply weren't NBA material. Some got a cup of coffee. Some didn't even get a sip. And that's normal, because hundreds of other programs can say the same.

I agree with your premise, but disagree about putting Butch on the list.  He was a first round draft pick who played 82 games as a rookie and averaged nearly 10 ppg. He blew out his knee three games into his second season and never recovered.  He clearly had what it took to succeed in the NBA, but an unfortunate injury ended his career.  I'd call that a bit more than a cup of coffee.  To me, a cup of coffee is a guy like Lazar...who makes a roster for a while, but never makes a significant contribution or shows the potential for a long career.

[NersEllenson]

DJO would be a pretty physical PG, but the problem is, he isn't a PG.

Deonte would be a bruising SG, the problem is he is a PF/SF.

I LOVE Deonte, but I think you're underestimating the athleticism in the NBA. It's REALLLLY tough to make the league, and it's even tougher if you don't fit the prototypical body type/position.

It's certainly not impossible, but it's RARE.

Happy to take a wager if you like?  I don't necessarily disagree with your above point either.  My premise is that when you combine great explosion/athleticism with a body weight well above what is typical with that type of athleticism...it's a lethal mix.  Barkley is a great example of this.  There just aren't many 6'4/6'5" guys who weight 245-250 in this world that athletically have what Burton has..and Barkley had in his prime.

Weight is a huge value.  You can look at Sullinger, DeJuan Blair, Glen Davis - none of those guys are very athletic for their position (at all), yet they have alot of value in the league...due to their mass/physicality.  They aren't prototype for their position in any way, shape or form.

Serious question for you Guns/Others who are skeptical of Deonte's ability to translate at next level (and you guys may be right)...but....have you ever balled against a guy who was 30 lbs heavier than you, just as athletic if not more than you...but you had 3" of height on him?  If so, how did that go?  Did you dominate him?  Was it a wash?  Or did he dominate you?  In my experience...I rarely ever dominated a guy like that...almost always was a wash...or he dominated me...

[brandx]

What amazes me is that some people think Deonte will be able to step right into the SG position in the NBA after never having played it before. And he will do this against guys who have been at the position for years who are among the best in the world.

Barkley and Aguirre were among other undersized guys who didn't make that transition, but they were uniquely talented players worlds better than Burton.

[GGGG]

Serious question for you Guns/Others who are skeptical of Deonte's ability to translate at next level (and you guys may be right)...but....have you ever balled against a guy who was 30 lbs heavier than you, just as athletic if not more than you...but you had 3" of height on him?  If so, how did that go?

If they had an inside/outside game, it was difficult.  Because you can just give up space.

And that is what I said before.  Deonte is going to need a better outside shot for his game to be effective.  Without that its a stretch.