Per Mark Miller... Matt Heldt just committed to MU

[Dawson Rental]

Have you ever played against a guy who is significantly bigger, stronger, and more athletic than you - but shorter by 3-4"?  Your 3-4" of height don't compensate for the areas the shorter, bigger, stronger, more athletic guy has on you.

And btw - Vander's biggest problem - like Jamil - is that though they are athletic...they both play very erect (insert jokes here) - neither plays with a low center of gravity, neither have a great first step burst, and neither are able to get low and turn the corner well on a baseline drive, or drive in general...D-Wade was a great example of this in his prime..look how low to the floor he could play...even though he was 6'3".  They  both can jump well though...which is one measure of athleticism...but it is the total package of athletic gifts that matter in basketball....and Burton has that combination.

So, how did Marquette win the St. John's and the Davidson games in 2013?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, how did Marquette win the St. John's and the Davidson games in 2013?

[Nukem2]

Have you ever played against a guy who is significantly bigger, stronger, and more athletic than you - but shorter by 3-4"?  Your 3-4" of height don't compensate for the areas the shorter, bigger, stronger, more athletic guy has on you.

And btw - Vander's biggest problem - like Jamil - is that though they are athletic...they both play very erect (insert jokes here) - neither plays with a low center of gravity, neither have a great first step burst, and neither are able to get low and turn the corner well on a baseline drive, or drive in general...D-Wade was a great example of this in his prime..look how low to the floor he could play...even though he was 6'3".  They  both can jump well though...which is one measure of athleticism...but it is the total package of athletic gifts that matter in basketball....and Burton has that combination.

Umm, Vander has a very good first step.  That is not his problem. His problems relative to the NBA are that he can't shoot well and he is somewhat short for a 2G.  Agree re Jamil playing too erect with that high center of gravity.

[keefe]

Agree re Jamil playing too erect .

I have never found this to be a problem, personally.

[Nukem2]

...

[bilsu]

Have you ever played against a guy who is significantly bigger, stronger, and more athletic than you - but shorter by 3-4"?  Your 3-4" of height don't compensate for the areas the shorter, bigger, stronger, more athletic guy has on you.

That is fine for college, but in the NBA most players will be as strong and as athletic as Burton is so 3-4" matters a lot.

[tower912]

Ners, you can make the same argument for Davante, using his mass and bulk to get his shot off against bigger defenders.    At the end of the day, he struggled getting shots off against athletic bigs.  And his draft status reflects that.   Deonte is going to have to be able to get his shot off against equally athletic players 3-4-5-6 inches bigger than he is on a consistent basis to make it to the league.   IMO, like Davante, he is going to be as very good college basketball player, one that I am thrilled to have at MU.  But I will be shocked if he gets to the league... UNLESS...he learns to finish equally well with either hand in traffic, gets a lot better and quicker with his jump shot, and improves his handle drastically.   

[brandx]

Despite all the talk about being as 2 guard - in the NBA you are what you can defend.

[DienerTime34]

What do you guys think is more important, tracking deflections or erections?

[GB Warrior]

Ners, you can make the same argument for Davante, using his mass and bulk to get his shot off against bigger defenders.    At the end of the day, he struggled getting shots off against athletic bigs.  And his draft status reflects that.   Deonte is going to have to be able to get his shot off against equally athletic players 3-4-5-6 inches bigger than he is on a consistent basis to make it to the league.   IMO, like Davante, he is going to be as very good college basketball player, one that I am thrilled to have at MU.  But I will be shocked if he gets to the league... UNLESS...he learns to finish equally well with either hand in traffic, gets a lot better and quicker with his jump shot, and improves his handle drastically.   

To add to this - it's also worth noting that most of the MU guys that have found recent success in the NBA have had prototypical size for the positions. Only exception is Crowder. Matthews, JFB, Novak, Buycks all have the standard size for their positions. Wade is a touch off, but his skill set compensated for what is (at most) a one inch variance.

Point of all of this being that as good a player as Burton may be, he'll probably need to be able to do it from the 2. Essentially, he'll need to be to the SG position what Marcus Smart is hoping to be at the 1.

[keefe]

What do you guys think is more important, tracking deflections or erections?

Well, speaking for myself, I nod with quiet satisfaction every morning as the parachute canopy settles back as bed cover when I get up to begin my day

[NersEllenson]

So, how did Marquette win the St. John's and the Davidson games in 2013?

Haha...nice try Murs...Davidson wasn't baseline drive...it was a straight line/coming at you downhill drive. Don't recall if St. Johns was from top of key too, or along baseline - not that it matters that much...but here's what you don't account for:

The defense in those situations is hell bent against fouling...and cannot risk the slightest bump/body to body contact...why do you think you always see teams score easily in the last 20 seconds of a game...when down 5-7 and getting the ball offensively? They shove it down your throat and know you don't want to commit a foul.  But I realize with a limited basketball IQ it may be hard to grasp the distinction between those end of game situations and normal possessions that occur for 98% of a basketball game.

Vander has a pretty good first step...and is great in the open court...he was not a great get to the basket finisher off the dribble in the halfcourt set.  Developed a nice midrange pull up game as a junior...but rarely in halfcourt setting would you see Vander go 1 on 1...take his guy to the bucket...effectively.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, you can make the same argument for Davante, using his mass and bulk to get his shot off against bigger defenders.    At the end of the day, he struggled getting shots off against athletic bigs.  And his draft status reflects that.   Deonte is going to have to be able to get his shot off against equally athletic players 3-4-5-6 inches bigger than he is on a consistent basis to make it to the league.   IMO, like Davante, he is going to be as very good college basketball player, one that I am thrilled to have at MU.  But I will be shocked if he gets to the league... UNLESS...he learns to finish equally well with either hand in traffic, gets a lot better and quicker with his jump shot, and improves his handle drastically.   

Comparing Burton and Davante isn't remotely relevant  -just because both guys are big for their respective position from a weight/mass perspective.  One can't jump over the phone book.  The other can take off outside the protected paint area..off of 2 feet...and dunk over a 6'9" 240 power forward.

I'll gladly take a wager on Deotne making the league.  PM me if interested.

I always project early on players/coaches ability...and generally am pretty confident in my predictions.  Unlike some here - Guns - who won't ever project or predict anything..certainly it can open me up for eating a sh$tburger...but I'd rather go on record with predictions than sitting around and smugly posting after the fact...this board is built for speculation..why not engage in it?  Who cares if one is wrong?  I sure was about Erik Williams and Jamial Jones...though both of those guys would be players...

[tower912]

Please name one player currently in the league with Deonte's combination of size and skillset.   

[noblewarrior]

So, what is the consensus on Bane's size... Skill set being developed.. TBD via personal statements from choach Wojo... Once these are clarified maybe your question can be answered Tower... Otherwise there will just be back and forth on these issues.. :-/... That aside... Deonte's potential is beyond any recent players' here at MU aside from Wade's.

[MU82]

If Burton makes the association, it will be as a bruising 2 guard. He is simply too small to play the small forward position. In order to make the league, he needs to work on...well...everything, but specifically his shooting and defense.

I agree with every word of this.

It would be lovely if Burton can first become a consistently good college player before we decide if he'll be the first-overall selection or merely a lottery pick.

[tower912]

I think Deonte has a huge upside at MU.   I could honestly see him averaging 18-20 ppg as a senior.   Unless he develops serious 2g skills, I just don't see his size and skillset translating to the league.   I am not busting on the kid.   I saw the same potential everybody else saw.   I also seemingly noticed the defensive lapses more, but I chalked it up to him being a freshman and assumed it would get better in the upcoming season(s).   He is a skilled athletic freak who did some amazing things and showed tremendous upside.    But at the end of the day, he is 6'4 in shoes (or so those in the know seem to think) and there aren't a lot of shooting guards in the NBA at that size, let alone forwards.   Maybe we will all be lucky and he will prove me wrong.   Here's hoping.  

[NersEllenson]

Please name one player currently in the league with Deonte's combination of size and skillset.   

Ha - There isn't one...can't think of one since Barkley...that's what makes Deonte so special...it is extremely rare you get a guy with his athleticism in his body type/frame.  Wojo is drooling over coaching Deonte.  Practically said as much.  Highlighted Deonte as being a kid with a very high ceiling...when asked his early impressions.

So, what is the consensus on Bane's size... Skill set being developed.. TBD via personal statements from choach Wojo... Once these are clarified maybe your question can be answered Tower... Otherwise there will just be back and forth on these issues.. :-/... That aside... Deonte's potential is beyond any recent players' here at MU aside from Wade's.

Someone gets it...

[tower912]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQkM-e-2ASc

7 minute Vander Blue highlight reel from 12-13.   He could get to the rack off of the dribble in the halfcourt set. 

I agree with Wojo (and Buzz  ) that Deonte has a high ceiling.   I'm just not convinced it translates to the league.   Pretty much the only think I disagree with you about as it pertains to Deonte's potential. 

[DienerTime34]

Burton could be the next Alando Tucker for sure. Same game, body type and athleticism. Future All-America candidate. And then maybe an NBA Summer League All-Star.

[MU82]

Burton could be the next Alando Tucker for sure. Same game, body type and athleticism. Future All-America candidate. And then maybe an NBA Summer League All-Star.

I would happily "settle" for that!

[tower912]

Burton could be the next Alando Tucker for sure. Same game, body type and athleticism. Future All-America candidate. And then maybe an NBA Summer League All-Star.

I would happily take that.    And, there is nothing wrong with that.   Tucker was a helluva college player who's skill set and size did not translate to the league.   Or Lazar, for that matter.   

[amen426]

Please name one player currently in the league with Deonte's combination of size and skillset.   

Shabazz Muhammad

[NersEllenson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQkM-e-2ASc

7 minute Vander Blue highlight reel from 12-13.   He could get to the rack off of the dribble in the halfcourt set. 

I agree with Wojo (and Buzz  ) that Deonte has a high ceiling.   I'm just not convinced it translates to the league.   Pretty much the only think I disagree with you about as it pertains to Deonte's potential. 

I counted 9 times in Vander's 7 minute highlight video where he got to the rim in a half court set...and in those examples it usually was the result of ball reversals creating the initial separation.  As I said...great in transition, very good on pick/roll/pop action....not great at creating/finishing in the halfcourt on 1 on 1 with strong ball pressure being applied.

Burton can get his anytime he wants...not nearly as reliant on ball reversal to create initial separation.  Can do that with body, jab step, and explosive first step.  Plays with a much better rhythm than Vander - it isn't always about the guy who moves the fastest on the court....such as DJO..Vander to an extent - its who plays with the best rhythm...can get a guy off balance through change of pace, shake and bake, jab step, etc...

[tower912]

Shabazz Muhammad

6'6, 220.   Averaged 3.9 pts for the T-wolves.     Vs. 6'4, 240.