collapse

Resources

2024-2025 SOTG Tally


2024-25 Season SoG Tally
Jones, K.10
Mitchell6
Joplin4
Ross2
Gold1

'23-24 '22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

EA Sports College Basketball Is Back by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 10:30:17 AM]


More conference realignment talk by The Sultan
[Today at 09:19:32 AM]


Nash Walker commits to MU by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 09:16:16 AM]


Marquette freshmen at Goolsby's 7/12 by Jay Bee
[Today at 07:42:27 AM]


Recruiting as of 7/15/25 by MuMark
[July 13, 2025, 08:59:23 PM]


Marquette NBA Thread by tower912
[July 13, 2025, 06:33:14 PM]


Pearson to MU by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[July 13, 2025, 09:51:20 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address. We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or signup NOW!

Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
66
Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
TV: NA
Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

Please vote for your favorite moment from the 2013-14 season:

Forcing OT vs Nova with Mayo scoring 10 in the last 35 seconds.  MU loses 94-85 in OT.
16 (16.5%)
Mayo hitting the 3 vs G'town to force OT. MU wins 80-72.
44 (45.4%)
Gardner hits 65 footer to beat Providence in OT (oops, too late).  MU loses 81-80 in 2OT.
3 (3.1%)
Mayo hits runner at the buzzer to force OT vs SJU on Senior Day.  MU loses 91-90 in 2OT.
1 (1%)
UK's Aaron Harrison drains a cold-blooded 3 over Gasser.  Becky's season ends.
33 (34%)

Total Members Voted: 97

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: Ners on June 05, 2014, 06:51:39 PM
When you can't attack the argument..you attack the person Willie...things would drop on last season so long as people stopped trying to make ridiculous points suggesting Carlino wouldn't start over Derrick...and that he simply transferred here to be at a better team/program...when in reality..he left a team..BYU...that was much better than our team last year....and we graduated 4 guys with a combined 20 years of college ball experience....including 3 starters, and our leading scorer...not even one of those 3 starters...why in God's name would Carlino transfer to such a team...if he didn't think there'd be ample playing time available?

The head banging gif was for me. Not sure where I attacked you but I apologize if you feel attacked.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: keefe on June 05, 2014, 07:15:33 PM
Not sure I agree with this. If you distill Ners' diatribe down to its pithy essence he is simply saying that Bert did a horrible job last year. On that there can be no disagreement.

Well, by definition, "Bert did a horrible job last year" is an opinion. It happens to be an opinion that I agree with.

The logical fallacy I was referring to was the notion that bringing in Carlino for the 2014-2015 season somehow proves that Derrick shouldn't have started in the 2013-2014 season. That is a huge logical jump.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Lennys Tap

Quote from: Ners on June 05, 2014, 07:58:35 AM


Buzz had a lot of better options last season...he simply refused to play them..or max their minutes.  There was zero reason for that team to miss the freaking NIT with as much talent as it had.

Missing the fracking NIT? Really? The fracking NIT? Who the frack cares? Minnesota worries about making the fracking NIT. Penn State worries about making the fracking NIT. We had a down year last year after 3 great ones. Happens at all top programs. And when top programs have a down year they don't worry about making the fracking NIT. The season's a failure the moment you don't make the NCAAs. Whining about not making the losers tournament is for losers. Can't believe a once proud MU fan who cheered us to the brink of becoming an elite program is bitching that our inevitable down year (every program has em once in a while) didn't produce a bid to the fracking NIT. What the frack has happened to you, Ners?

klyrish


muhoops1


NersEllenson

#55
Quote from: wadesworld on June 05, 2014, 07:07:12 PM
Are you this dumb?  Nobody said Carlino wouldn't start over Derrick last year if he was at Marquette.  We are saying...get this one, Ners...Matt Carlino was not at Marquette last year, so him starting this year could not have possibly changed Derrick starting last year, because, well, MATT CARLINO DID NOT ATTEND MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY LAST YEAR!  I can't believe I actually have to spell that out for you.  It is not hard to understand that.  Matt Carlino would not have changed Derrick starting last year.  LeBron James would not have changed Derrick starting last year.  Kevin Durant, Magic Johnson, Derrick Rose, Steve Nash.  None of them could have possibly changed Derrick starting last year.  None of them went to Marquette University last year.  I don't know how you don't understand this.

And your point about ample playing time for Carlino is silly.  The guy got 28 minutes/game last year.  He isn't transferring for playing time, he had plenty of that.

You are not very intelligent.  (Can you attack the person if you have already attacked the argument?  I don't know what your rules are.)

Ahh no...I'm not that dumb...I don't craft these posts to perfect grammar as it is a message board...but I'd think a person with just average intelligence could understand the point:  There are about 5 posters here who all last season stood by Buzz, said his teams always got better later in the season, he played the guys he though gave him best chance to win, didn't have better options...and all the other excuses made...TAMU being one of those 5.  TAMU in this thread jumped a poster who said Derrick wouldn't start this upcoming year and will simply be a role player off the bench - by saying you don't know that..there's no guarantee Carlino will start over Derrick this upcoming year, etc....The POINT WADES...is that even still...with Carlino on the freaking roster now...TAMU still has to broach and float the "logical" position that even though Carlino is here..it doesn't necessarily mean Derrick won't start...okay...I get that statement...if you want to truly look at it through the crucible of the lens of Phil 101...but let's give it up already...if Derrick starts again next season...and we just brought in a 5th year senior transfer at his position....it certainly would seem to defy all real world logic.

And beyond that...we all know Derrick has no business being a starting PG on a high major team.  He's a good role player, that should get 5-10 minutes a game maximum...as he did his first two years.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

#56
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Missing the fracking NIT? Really? The fracking NIT? Who the frack cares? Minnesota worries about making the fracking NIT. Penn State worries about making the fracking NIT. We had a down year last year after 3 great ones. Happens at all top programs. And when top programs have a down year they don't worry about making the fracking NIT. The season's a failure the moment you don't make the NCAAs. Whining about not making the losers tournament is for losers. Can't believe a once proud MU fan who cheered us to the brink of becoming an elite program is bitching that our inevitable down year (every program has em once in a while) didn't produce a bid to the fracking NIT. What the frack has happened to you, Ners?

Lenny....yes..it was a total and complete disgrace..albeit a fitting end to the turd of a season Buzz coached us to...to MISS the NIT.  To not even be selected to the NIT??  THat's about as big of kick in the balls as you can get...for a team that had ZERO business missing the NCAA tourney...and was picked as preseason Big East Champ, Preseason Top 20 in virtually every single poll that existed.

I'm still a proud MU fan...and thought Buzz was gonna be as good as Al...but he proved and turned out to be a nutcase.  

The funny thing is Buzz used to always trumpet how little returning talent he had on the roster..when he was trying to build his case for what an underdog he should have been in the early Years...always citing the total returning letterwinners aggregate combined letters earned..when those numbers were low...as in DJO and Buycks year...and even the Jimmy/Jae years....then..last season...he returns more letter winners than at any other time in his tenure...all of HIS guys...and he just coached them to a 17-15 finish...no wins over Top 25 teams...and not even an NIT berth...and oddly Buzz never spoke about how experienced this team was..of guys he recruited...never trumpeted the 26 returning years of experience.  It was awful...and the fact neither Jamil nor Davante even thanked him on Senior Day..while thanking everyone else..assistants, trainers, academic staff...spoke volumes about how he lost the team.  Not to mention if he were here.. Steve Taylor and JJJ would have bailed on him...and I'm sure Dawson gave it some consideration too.

"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

keefe

Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
He wasn't able to create the same alchemy he had in the previous 5 years.   It was clearly not up to the standard set the previous 5 years.   But I truly believe he was trying to win every game. 

The question is not whether he was trying to win but, rather, if his job performance last year was horrible. One would have to go back to the last century to find as bad a season at Marquette.


Death on call

keefe

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 05, 2014, 09:05:26 PM
Well, by definition, "Bert did a horrible job last year" is an opinion. It happens to be an opinion that I agree with.

The logical fallacy I was referring to was the notion that bringing in Carlino for the 2014-2015 season somehow proves that Derrick shouldn't have started in the 2013-2014 season. That is a huge logical jump.

That statement in isolation is an opinion. But it is a pithy articulation of Bert's performance. It is merely a summary statement as there is ample empiricism to substantiate the claim. And as I say, the rich, chewy nougat center of Ners' position is that Bert failed as a leader last season.


Death on call

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Ners,

The issue is and always has been the way you and other choose to phrase your criticisms. Passing off opinions as facts, rampant hyperbole, leaps in logic, and refusal to even listen to any other perspectives turns reasonable discussion amongst basketball fans into malicious attacks on young men who work their arses off representing Marquette.

No one has any issue with your opinions. They are based in sound basketball logic and come from a place of wanting the best for our alma mater. I don't personally agree with all of them but do with several. I wanted more time for Mayo, Burton, and even Dawson! But I'm not willing to trash our current players to make those points and take offense when others do.

That is all. My only point of contention. Can you share opinions without turning it into an attack? If you can, I'll be happy to continue discussion. Until then, this is all I can offer:

Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


willie warrior

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Missing the fracking NIT? Really? The fracking NIT? Who the frack cares? Minnesota worries about making the fracking NIT. Penn State worries about making the fracking NIT. We had a down year last year after 3 great ones. Happens at all top programs. And when top programs have a down year they don't worry about making the fracking NIT. The season's a failure the moment you don't make the NCAAs. Whining about not making the losers tournament is for losers. Can't believe a once proud MU fan who cheered us to the brink of becoming an elite program is bitching that our inevitable down year (every program has em once in a while) didn't produce a bid to the fracking NIT. What the frack has happened to you, Ners?
Now that is deflection. denigrate the NIT, instead of MU's inability to even get in, based on poor coaching performance.

I swear that some people on this board are becoming enamored with deflection, possibly watching our governments ability to do so. When stepping in crap, blame whoever you can as being the one that put the crap there, and not your own propensity to muck into the crap.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

Lennys Tap

Quote from: willie warrior on June 06, 2014, 06:35:06 AM
Now that is deflection.

I swear that some people on this board are becoming enamored with deflection

Deflections?!? This board hasn't been enamored with defections since the Bronze Beast took his act to Bloomington.

NersEllenson

Quote from: keefe on June 06, 2014, 12:32:15 AM
That statement in isolation is an opinion. But it is a pithy articulation of Bert's performance. It is merely a summary statement as there is ample empiricism to substantiate the claim. And as I say, the rich, chewy nougat center of Ners' position is that Bert failed as a leader last season.

Exactly.  Everything rests at the feet of Buzz for how bad last season was.  At the end of the day..it isn't Derrick and Jake's fault Buzz insisted on playing them more minutes than any other players on the team.  They did their best, tried hard, followed the marching orders of their leader.  The issue of course is the judgment of the leader...as to who he chose to go to battle with...and the argument all season long in support of the leader largely was Buzz's first 5 years give him a pass..and absolve him of even the possibility of making mistakes with his rotation, substitution patterns, chosen starting lineup - when it was clear as day early on if he didn't radically alter the starters and minute allocation...the season was going to be a bust.

The most frustrating part on this board was the continued (opinion/not fact) insistence on those suggesting Buzz didn't have better options....when there is no question....Mayo is a better all around player than Jake....Burton...better than Juan....and entirely possible Dawson would have performed better than Derrick...as he can at least shoot the basketball....and largely...you simply cannot get worse production from your PG than what we got.

The end of the day...17-15 and missing the NIT sums it all up...terrible coaching job.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: Ners on June 06, 2014, 08:43:48 AM
Exactly.  Everything rests at the feet of Buzz for how bad last season was.  At the end of the day..it isn't Derrick and Jake's fault Buzz insisted on playing them more minutes than any other players on the team.  They did their best, tried hard, followed the marching orders of their leader.  The issue of course is the judgment of the leader...as to who he chose to go to battle with...and the argument all season long in support of the leader largely was Buzz's first 5 years give him a pass..and absolve him of even the possibility of making mistakes with his rotation, substitution patterns, chosen starting lineup - when it was clear as day early on if he didn't radically alter the starters and minute allocation...the season was going to be a bust.

The most frustrating part on this board was the continued (opinion/not fact) insistence on those suggesting Buzz didn't have better options....when there is no question....Mayo is a better all around player than Jake....Burton...better than Juan....and entirely possible Dawson would have performed better than Derrick...as he can at least shoot the basketball....and largely...you simply cannot get worse production from your PG than what we got.

The end of the day...17-15 and missing the NIT sums it all up...terrible coaching job.

So close to a legitimate argument....

Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


bilsu

Quote from: Ners on June 06, 2014, 08:43:48 AM
Exactly.  Everything rests at the feet of Buzz for how bad last season was.  At the end of the day..it isn't Derrick and Jake's fault Buzz insisted on playing them more minutes than any other players on the team.  They did their best, tried hard, followed the marching orders of their leader.  The issue of course is the judgment of the leader...as to who he chose to go to battle with...and the argument all season long in support of the leader largely was Buzz's first 5 years give him a pass..and absolve him of even the possibility of making mistakes with his rotation, substitution patterns, chosen starting lineup - when it was clear as day early on if he didn't radically alter the starters and minute allocation...the season was going to be a bust.

The most frustrating part on this board was the continued (opinion/not fact) insistence on those suggesting Buzz didn't have better options....when there is no question....Mayo is a better all around player than Jake....Burton...better than Juan....and entirely possible Dawson would have performed better than Derrick...as he can at least shoot the basketball....and largely...you simply cannot get worse production from your PG than what we got.

The end of the day...17-15 and missing the NIT sums it all up...terrible coaching job.
It not a question of whether they were more talented. Buzz valued effort and rewarded the players who always gave 100% effort. Mayo had issues and Mayo not starting rested directly on Mayo's shoulders. You can argue whether the freshmen should of played more, but Buzz wants players to know where they are suppose to be on offense and defense. You can certainly argue that they can only learn by playing. However, as bad as the season was we were still in the picture with four games to go and lost two of them in overtime so when should Buzz of thrown in the towel on the season?

swoopem

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 06, 2014, 09:06:10 AM
So close to a legitimate argument....



Are you trying to say Jake is better than the Toddfather?
Bring back FFP!!!

Lennys Tap

#66
Quote from: Ners on June 06, 2014, 12:22:44 AM
Lenny....yes..it was a total and complete disgrace..albeit a fitting end to the turd of a season Buzz coached us to...to MISS the NIT.  To not even be selected to the NIT??  THat's about as big of kick in the balls as you can get...for a team that had ZERO business missing the NCAA tourney...and was picked as preseason Big East Champ, Preseason Top 20 in virtually every single poll that existed.

I'm still a proud MU fan...and thought Buzz was gonna be as good as Al...but he proved and turned out to be a nutcase.  

...he returns more letter winners than at any other time in his tenure...all of HIS guys...and he just coached them to a 17-15 finish...



So in one season (mostly because he didn't play an inexperienced, not all that highly rated PG big minutes) your opinion of Buzz went from "He's the next Al, a hall of famer" to "He's insane". That, my friend, is what's insane.

As to returning "letter winners" what is this, high school? Letter winners? We play a 3 guard offense. Top notch guards are essential to winning. We lost all 3 of our starters, and our star guard (who you inexplicably hated) was an unexpected loss. The replacements were a PG with no offense, a walk on and a good but streaky offensive guy with a ton of baggage. Behind them, Magic Dawson. But because Juan, Derrick, Jake, etc., won "letters" the previous year you expected greatness. Instead of listening to preseason pollsters (who are then listened to by conference coaches) try doing a little of your own analysis. Be like Chico. Sure, he's posted often about last year's failure to meet expectations but he's mostly doing that to tweak me. He was worried about our guard play early and said as much. Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Trent Lockett with Derrick Wilson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas off the bench is light years better than Derrick Wilson, Jake Thomas and Todd Mayo with John Dawson off the bench. Light years. That's partially due to injury (Duane Wilson) and unexpected departure (Vander) but ultimately the blame falls on Buzz the general manager. We were undermanned at the game's most important positions and 17-15 was the result.

GGGG

Ners, hypothetically, how much improvement from 17-15 do you think we would have gotten playing your line up of Dawson, Mayo, Deonte, Jamil and one of our centers?

Do you think we would have won the BE?  Reached the NCAA?

Lennys Tap

Quote from: keefe on June 06, 2014, 12:32:15 AM
And as I say, the rich, chewy nougat center of Ners' position is that Bert failed as a leader last season.

Hmmm...a fresh, steaming, half pound shyte sandwich, albeit one with a rich, chewy nougat center. At the risk of missing a gourmet's delight I'll pass.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: swoopem on June 06, 2014, 09:18:36 AM
Are you trying to say Jake is better than the Toddfather?

No, I think Todd is a much better all around player than Jake.

But that is an opinion. And making statements like "there can be no question" changes this from reasonable discussion to ultimatums. "Agree with me or you're an idiot" essentially.

And FWIW, Jake did not take playing time away from Mayo. Jake was a our starting shooting guard and Mayo was our starting wing guard in a three guard offense. Metrics consistently showed that we were at our best when Mayo and Jake were on the floor at the same time.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Wojo'sMojo

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 06, 2014, 10:13:22 AM
No, I think Todd is a much better all around player than Jake.

But that is an opinion. And making statements like "there can be no question" changes this from reasonable discussion to ultimatums. "Agree with me or you're an idiot" essentially.

And FWIW, Jake did not take playing time away from Mayo. Jake was a our starting shooting guard and Mayo was our starting wing guard in a three guard offense. Metrics consistently showed that we were at our best when Mayo and Jake were on the floor at the same time.

What do you think the difference is between shooting guard and wing guard? I have seen you make this argument multiple times and I disagree. Is Jake Thomas the only shooting guard on last years roster? We could have played JJJ and Mayo together and IMO, it would have been an improvement over Thomas. Put the IMO in there for you, seems like your feathers have been a little ruffled about that lately  ;D


swoopem

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 06, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
What do you think the difference is between shooting guard and wing guard? I have seen you make this argument multiple times and I disagree. Is Jake Thomas the only shooting guard on last years roster? We could have played JJJ and Mayo together and IMO, it would have been an improvement over Thomas. Put the IMO in there for you, seems like your feathers have been a little ruffled about that lately  ;D



Yeah only facts are allowed on a message board
Bring back FFP!!!

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 06, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
What do you think the difference is between shooting guard and wing guard? I have seen you make this argument multiple times and I disagree. Is Jake Thomas the only shooting guard on last years roster? We could have played JJJ and Mayo together and IMO, it would have been an improvement over Thomas. Put the IMO in there for you, seems like your feathers have been a little ruffled about that lately  ;D



The IMO wasn't necessary, just saying "could" instead of "must" was sufficient.  ;) I know it seems silly. But if you boil down every argument that has ever been had on this board ever, it boils down to how the argument is made, not the argument itself. I don't think any of the Slurpificient Five would take issue with anyone thinking Derrick is an awful point guard. It's the way people choose to express how bad they think Derrick is that bother us. If everyone spoke to each other on scoop like they talk to actual people in real life, we wouldn't have so many good members rage quitting.

As to your question. The traditional starting five features a PG, SG, SF, PF, and C. College teams have increasingly gotten away from this model. Many now go with a three guard offense that features a PG, SG, WG, PF, and C. A SG's purpose is to be the three point threat. They are there to spread out the defense. WGs use the spacing created by the SG (and usually but unfortunately not in our case) the PG to slash to the basket and attack. One can be successful without the other but they are typically better together.

Jake was the only true SG on the roster. There were others that could play the position but it's not their natural role. Dawson is a PG, Mayo/JJJ are attacking WGs. Now it is fine to have a PG or a WG in the SG role...if they are also a strong three point shooter. Dawson and JJJ both shot at a 29% or lower clip. Mayo shot 33% but that didn't happen until the end of the season. He was hovering around 28% until the last month.

Jake was the only legitimate three point threat. IMHO, we needed him on the floor to space the defense.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


willie warrior

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2014, 08:04:51 AM
Deflections?!? This board hasn't been enamored with defections since the Bronze Beast took his act to Bloomington.
I said some people Lenny, not the whole board.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

Class71

Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
He wasn't able to create the same alchemy he had in the previous 5 years.   It was clearly not up to the standard set the previous 5 years.   But I truly believe he was trying to win every game. 

Trying and knowing what to do are different. Not as certain his winning objective was the same but will give him the benefit of the doubt in spike of horrible coaching last year IMHO.

Let's see what Wogo can do with the same basic talent except for Devonte, Jamil and Jake.
⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵

Previous topic - Next topic