Buzz on Wojo Hire

[Golden Avalanche]

Coach K's tree has many branches. Any of them have a record as good as Buzz's?

Any of them walk into a situation like Williams did?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Any of them walk into a situation like Williams did?

Not a chance.  How many of them left to go to a turd program and take a pay cut?  Not many of them either...there are reasons.  Lenny just doesn't want to know about them.  He's still smitten

[Lennys Tap]

Any of them walk into a situation like Williams did?

Coaching in the ACC at 2.4 million a year? No.

[Lennys Tap]

Any of them walk into a situation like Williams did?

If you mean MU, the situation (according to even Buzz hater Chicos) was a cupboard so bare by year 2 that just making the tournament should result in Buzz being named National Coach of the Year. By year 3 there were no players left from the Crean era and we began a streak of three consecutive years playing into the second weekend of the tournament, something that happened just twice (once with TC, once with KO) in the previous 31 seasons.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

If you mean MU, the situation (according to even Buzz hater Chicos) was a cupboard so bare by year 2 that just making the tournament should result in Buzz being named National Coach of the Year. By year 3 there were no players left from the Crean era and we began a streak of three consecutive years playing into the second weekend of the tournament, something that happened just twice (once with TC, once with KO) in the previous 31 seasons.

Really?  I thought when Buzz took over, there were a lot of good pieces.  Junior College transfers helped smooth the gap left by Tyshawn Taylor and Mbakwe moving on.  Had those two stayed, there's a good chance we may have even performed better.  I'll give Buzz the utmost credit on the Junior College transfer front, but in terms of recruiting talent at the high school level, he suffered many lumps and bruises. 

[Pakuni]

 " Blah blah blah," Brent says between phone calls to committed Marquette recruits.

[Pakuni]

Coach K's tree has many branches. Any of them have a record as good as Buzz's?

Mike Brey .... .654 career win percentage
Brent Williams .... .635
Jeff Capel .... .614
Tommy Amaker .... .601 (he and Brent will have swapped places by this time next year)

Also worth noting that none of these guys walked into an environment as prepared for success (or as recently successful) as Brent.

[Hards Alumni]

Mike Brey .... .654 career win percentage
Brent Williams .... .635
Jeff Capel .... .614
Tommy Amaker .... .601 (he and Brent will have swapped placed by this time next year)

Also worth noting that none of these guys walked into an environment as prepared for success (or as recently successful) as Brent.

+1  The Three Amigos weren't walking through anyone else's door.

[CTWarrior]

If you mean MU, the situation (according to even Buzz hater Chicos) was a cupboard so bare by year 2 that just making the tournament should result in Buzz being named National Coach of the Year. By year 3 there were no players left from the Crean era and we began a streak of three consecutive years playing into the second weekend of the tournament, something that happened just twice (once with TC, once with KO) in the previous 31 seasons.

Lenny, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time, and I basically agree with you about Buzz, but please, for the love of all that's holy, let this go.  There is no reason why anyone should take Chico's defending Crean mantle up with regards to Buzz.  

I really hated wading through the Crean crap for the last 6 years and I really hope we can leave similar Buzz stuff behind, both bashing and defending him.  Without question the performance on the court and recruiting raised a notch under Buzz.  Maybe/probably the squirm factor did, too, and there were some strange coaching decisions last season, to say the least.  Anyway, it doesn't matter because he is gone now.  

I'd prefer to focus on what we are and what we are going to be, not what we were.

[Pakuni]

If you mean MU, the situation (according to even Buzz hater Chicos) was a cupboard so bare by year 2 that just making the tournament should result in Buzz being named National Coach of the Year. By year 3 there were no players left from the Crean era and we began a streak of three consecutive years playing into the second weekend of the tournament, something that happened just twice (once with TC, once with KO) in the previous 31 seasons.

I disagree with Chico's about everything, except when I cite him as an authority!

The situation at MU involved more than just the returning players. We're talking facilities, private planes, huge recruiting budgets, tradition, academic support, fan support, compensation (both for head coach and assistants), etc. Marquette had - and still has - an environment conducive to success. Much more so than Notre Dame or Washington or Fairfield or Northwestern.

I don't see many people here disputing that Brent did a lot of great things at MU. He also did some not-so-great things, and his last season - from the way he orchestrated the AD's departure, to the atrocious, baffling coaching job, to the way he left and for whom - understandably leaves a sour taste in the mouths of those who ardently supported him for six years.
Is that so hard to comprehend?

[lab_warrior]

Mike Brey .... .654 career win percentage
Brent Williams .... .635
Jeff Capel .... .614
Tommy Amaker .... .601 (he and Brent will have swapped places by this time next year)

Also worth noting that none of these guys walked into an environment as prepared for success (or as recently successful) as Brent.

OOPDEE. Walked into that door. 



Sadly, had Buzz TRIED this season, rather than navel gaze and wallow in his self-created
malaise like a total beta male, he would have a better win %.  Mentally checking out during the
season and actively sabotaging players' careers won't help, either, as well as his constant glad
handing and networking for other job opportunities, even s***ier ones.  The man is a f***ing skeeze,
even by college coaching standards. 

Like Paulie Walnuts, I imagine Lenny has a beautiful portrait of Brent, rather than Tony Soprano,
as Napoleon in his basement, sighing longingly at it.  Worshipping a con artist, narcissist,
and sociopath, like Paulie.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

OOPDEE. Walked into that door. 



Sadly, had Buzz TRIED this season, rather than navel gaze and wallow in his self-created
malaise like a total beta male, he would have a better win %.  Mentally checking out during the
season and actively sabotaging players' careers won't help, either, as well as his constant glad
handing and networking for other job opportunities, even s***ier ones.  The man is a f***ing skeeze,
even by college coaching standards. 

Like Paulie Walnuts, I imagine Lenny has a beautiful portrait of Brent, rather than Tony Soprano,
as Napoleon in his basement, sighing longingly at it.  Worshipping a con artist, narcissist,
and sociopath, like Paulie.

Harsh.  But excellent pull from the Sopranos.

[GooooMarquette]

I disagree with Chico's about everything, except when I cite him as an authority!

The situation at MU involved more than just the returning players. We're talking facilities, private planes, huge recruiting budgets, tradition, academic support, fan support, compensation (both for head coach and assistants), etc. Marquette had - and still has - an environment conducive to success. Much more so than Notre Dame or Washington or Fairfield or Northwestern.

I don't see many people here disputing that Brent did a lot of great things at MU. He also did some not-so-great things, and his last season - from the way he orchestrated the AD's departure, to the atrocious, baffling coaching job, to the way he left and for whom - understandably leaves a sour taste in the mouths of those who ardently supported him for six years.
Is that so hard to comprehend?

Well stated.

I would also add that in addition to MU's basketball facilities and resources being far greater than at the other schools you mentioned, the facilities and resources were far better at MU when Buzz took over than when TC or KO did.  The program was in a shambles when KO walked through the door - in terms of players, national reputation, facilities - and he gave us a chance to be a player again.  Things were better when TC walked in, but we still didn't have the AL, we were still in CUSA, and hadn't been to a Final Four in 22 years.

Buzz entered with the Amigos, the AL, and the best BB conference we've ever seen to support recruiting.  And while things had slipped during the mid-part of the TC era, we were still only 5 years removed from the Final Four.  In other words, we were already a serious player on the national landscape, something neither TC nor KO had.

Kudos to Buzz for what he did years 2-5...but he was FAR better set up for that success than either KO or TC were.

[Lennys Tap]

Mike Brey .... .654 career win percentage
Brent Williams .... .635
Jeff Capel .... .614
Tommy Amaker .... .601 (he and Brent will have swapped places by this time next year)

Also worth noting that none of these guys walked into an environment as prepared for success (or as recently successful) as Brent.

With apologies to CT, here are some additional stats omitted concerning the MOST SUCCESSFUL branches of the Coach K tree:

Mike Brey : One Sweet 16, Zero Elite 8s in 19 years.

Jeff Capel : One Elite 8 in 9 years.

Tommy Amaker : One Sweet 16, zero Elite 8s in 17 years.

Total: 45 years, two Sweet 16s, one Elite 8. Most of Brey's career at Notre Dame. Amaker was an abject failure at Michigan (not even one NCAA appearance in 6 years). Capel had one great season at Oklahoma and was then fired after two sub .500 ones (now a Duke assistant).

So Buzz in 7 years (6 at MU) has the same number of Sweet 16s and Elite 8s as the 3 best producing branches of the Coach K tree have in 45.

[Pakuni]

With apologies to CT, here are some additional stats omitted concerning the MOST SUCCESSFUL branches of the Coach K tree:

Mike Brey : One Sweet 16, Zero Elite 8s in 19 years.

Jeff Capel : One Elite 8 in 9 years.

Tommy Amaker : One Sweet 16, zero Elite 8s in 17 years.

Total: 45 years, two Sweet 16s, one Elite 8. Most of Brey's career at Notre Dame. Amaker was an abject failure at Michigan (not even one NCAA appearance in 6 years). Capel had one great season at Oklahoma and was then fired after two sub .500 ones (now a Duke assistant).

So Buzz in 7 years (6 at MU) has the same number of Sweet 16s and Elite 8s as the 3 best producing branches of the Coach K tree have in 45.

Shifting the goalposts, I see, from record to how many Sweet 16s. I suppose you had no choice, given how you were wrong and all.

Now tell me, was Delaware a comparable program to Marquette? VCU when Capel took over there?  Harvard? Seton Hall? Has Notre Dame ever invested in basketball the way MU has over the past decade?
And yet you think yours is a fair comparison?
I mean, if you're going to measure them by tournament runs, don't you think the respective nature of the programs ought to matter just a tad?

I meant it as a joke earlier when I asked if you were the new Chicos. Now I'm not so sure it's a joke.

[Lennys Tap]

Shifting the goalposts, I see, from record to how many Sweet 16s. I suppose you had no choice, given how you were wrong and all.

Now tell me, was Delaware a comparable program to Marquette? VCU when Capel took over there?  Harvard? Seton Hall? Has Notre Dame ever invested in basketball the way MU has over the past decade?
And yet you think yours is a fair comparison?
I mean, if you're going to measure them by tournament runs, don't you think the respective nature of the programs ought to matter just a tad?

I meant it as a joke earlier when I asked if you were the new Chicos. Now I'm not so sure it's a joke.

Point well taken. I should have not used "record" since I meant success, not just overall winning percentage. My mistake for using imprecise or maybe even inaccurate language.

The point remains, in my opinion at least, that Buzz has been more successful than those 3 or any of the many other Coach K disciples.

Believe me, I'm trying to "drop it", but it's difficult when people are posting tin foil hat fantasies that Buzz threw games, that we're headed for NCAA sanctions, etc.. From now on I'll try to ignore the nonsense.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you mean MU, the situation (according to even Buzz hater Chicos) was a cupboard so bare by year 2 that just making the tournament should result in Buzz being named National Coach of the Year. By year 3 there were no players left from the Crean era and we began a streak of three consecutive years playing into the second weekend of the tournament, something that happened just twice (once with TC, once with KO) in the previous 31 seasons.

I don't hate Buzz. 

He's squirmy as hell, odd beyond belief (I use the word "odd" because I'm being nice) and his schtick is exactly that.  He's a really good coach, he's also revealed his character over the years on countless occasions that you and others simply ignored because you wanted to.  It was pathetic, but since he was our guy, it was ok. 

I believe I said Big East COY (ironically a response to you):  "In fact I said it again earlier today...I actually said if they make the NCAA tournament he should be Big East COY and yes, I said it again today.  But I think the award would actually go to Jamie Dixon if I were to guess.

And no, I still need 4 to 5 years.  Steve Lavin was coach of the year, Matt Doherty was National coach of the year....your favorite coach, Tom Crean, was COY as well (twice).    Until then, the best they get from me is "so far so good"


If I said national, I'd like to see it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Point well taken. I should have not used "record" since I meant success, not just overall winning percentage. My mistake for using imprecise or maybe even inaccurate language.

The point remains, in my opinion at least, that Buzz has been more successful than those 3 or any of the many other Coach K disciples.

Believe me, I'm trying to "drop it", but it's difficult when people are posting tin foil hat fantasies that Buzz threw games, that we're headed for NCAA sanctions, etc.. From now on I'll try to ignore the nonsense.

NCAA sanctions...who is posting that?

No one that I can see.  Don't confuse a lack of character, squirmy ethics, and totally bizarre behavior with breaking rules.  They are totally different animals.

You seem to have moved into the JUST WIN BABY crowd, because you are putting all your eggs in your little basket into NCAA tournament success, which is a complete crapshoot.  The stuff that goes on within the program, doesn't seem to matter....as long as they win those NCAA games.    

Ultimately, Lenny, why do you think he left \ pushed out...what do you think those reasons were for?  It is clear to me you don't have an iota of what they are, or your head wouldn't be this far out defending him.

[avid1010]

NCAA sanctions...who is posting that?

No one that I can see.  Don't confuse a lack of character, squirmy ethics, and totally bizarre behavior with breaking rules.  They are totally different animals.

You seem to have moved into the JUST WIN BABY crowd, because you are putting all your eggs in your little basket into NCAA tournament success, which is a complete crapshoot.  The stuff that goes on within the program, doesn't seem to matter....as long as they win those NCAA games.    

Ultimately, Lenny, why do you think he left \ pushed out...what do you think those reasons were for?  It is clear to me you don't have an iota of what they are, or your head wouldn't be this far out defending him.

i get sick of people with sources, acting like they know what's going on in the program, etc.  you said some very nice stuff about mike rice if i remember, yet the videos of that guy in practice doesn't seem to match.  i don't really think there is anyone wasting time on message boards that really has a feel for why things happen in the program. 

hell, my employer has ~1,000 employees...there's 1 person who really knows what's going on, 3 that kind of know, and 6 that know some stuff...everything else is always diluted and fails to fully understand the complexity of all the decisions that get questioned.  impossible to know why buzz does what he does...i doubt he knows himself, and there's probably a preponderance of evidence to support that he had some issues, but always two sides to the story. 

[Pakuni]

Point well taken. I should have not used "record" since I meant success, not just overall winning percentage. My mistake for using imprecise or maybe even inaccurate language.

The point remains, in my opinion at least, that Buzz has been more successful than those 3 or any of the many other Coach K disciples.

Believe me, I'm trying to "drop it", but it's difficult when people are posting tin foil hat fantasies that Buzz threw games, that we're headed for NCAA sanctions, etc.. From now on I'll try to ignore the nonsense.

You're right ... there have been a lot of stupid theories.

[rocket surgeon]

http://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/4/3/5580292/virginia-tech-hokies-basketball-buzz-williams-radio-interview-tim-brando

"They discussed the news out of Marquette, with the hiring of Wojo. Buzz says, 'Wojo is a stud.' Compared Coach K's status to John Wooden's and says the pedigree will validate Wojo. Says the kids at Marquette will be great and do everything he asks. He's very happy for Wojo, and will congratulate him this weekend in Dallas."

Of course, Wojo already said he'll be forgoing Dallas to spend that time with the players building his relationship with them, as that's his #1 priority. So he may have to wait a bit for the congratulations from Buzz.

notice the difference here-the priorities?  buzz must already be tight with his guys back at vcu and has everything under control

[Pakuni]

i get sick of people with sources, acting like they know what's going on in the program, etc. 

If the past two weeks taught us anything, it's that most of the self-proclaimed insiders don't have a clue.
Funny that the guy who ended up getting the job wasn't mentioned by a single "insider" until after MU's interest was reported by Yahoo!, and even then the insiders were insisting that Cuonzo Martin or Tony Bennett would be the guy.

[Lennys Tap]

If the past two weeks taught us anything, it's that most of the self-proclaimed insiders don't have a clue.
Funny that the guy who ended up getting the job wasn't mentioned by a single "insider" until after MU's interest was reported by Yahoo!, and even then the insiders were insisting that Cuonzo Martin or Tony Bennett would be the guy.

+1. People's sources are long on innuendo and totally devoid of facts. Squirmy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Believe me, I'm trying to "drop it", but it's difficult when people are posting tin foil hat fantasies that Buzz threw games, that we're headed for NCAA sanctions, etc.. From now on I'll try to ignore the nonsense.

In an ironic twist of fate, the first year or two after TC left, I found myself playing a similar role, Lenny.

People would trash TC, and I'd chip in my 2 cents trying to provide some facts.

The truth is, people are going to be pissed at Buzz for a while, and there isn't much you can do about it.

Fairly, or unfairly, he's going to get trashed on this site. My honest suggestion is that you just get used to it, or else it will eat away at you, and you'll become like that guy, Hoopaloop.

[Goose]

Pakuni

I would disagree with your comment on "insider" info being completely wrong. Info may have been shared that turned out to be inaccurate, but it was accurate info on what was going on and thought process the school was using. In addition, there was one poster on here that caled Wojo privately to me two days prior to hire. He PM'd me and was right on target with the hire. I will not name that poster, but he hit it right on target.

Wojo's name was in the mix as early as first weekend after Buzz was gone and I dismissed it believing they were confident they would get their guy. IMO the mention of his name at the time was more about guys in the mix and the pool is deep.

All that said, I think Buzz did great job for MU and also was a nut. I stated back in 2012 that I believed he was slippery and I was fine with him being that way provided it was within rules. In reviewing the past season it is obvious to me that Buzz was checked out and days were numbered. I mentioned during one game that no coach that wanted to keep his job would. E playing rotations he was playing. Buzz quitting or being asked out really only matters to enhance discussion on here.

His handling of this team was one of the most talked about coaching moves I can ever remember. Casual fans or diehard fans that would never bash a coach or program were frustrated and I have never seen that before. When 75 year old women that love MU are speaking out you know that things are not right.

After not wanting Buzz here to really loving his shtick for awhile I am happy he is gone. He was a walking time bomb and fortunately for MU he is now VT walking time bomb. He built a team quickly based off winning and trying to prove he deserved the job and I liked that. Getting Juco's allowed him to build quicker and maintain the winning at high level. For me I am happy he was here and provided some very exciting moments. Now time to look forward.