Take a Clue From Bucky

[4everwarriors]

Ya need shooters at all 5 positions, hey? Suckers come off the bench and knock it down. Yeah, beat a chitty team, but their defense is solid and consistent. Like the fact Bo has a system and recruits and teaches his system. They're not gonna beat themselves. One hell of a coach.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Except for when Oregon runs up and down the court all day against them...and when Northwestern beat them at the Kohl.

[tower912]

Or Creighton, for that matter.   But there has to be a balance, because some days the shots just don't fall.   I would agree that MU hasn't had enough shooters recently.   Or, more accurately, had guys who were reputed to be shooters coming in but haven't panned out for whatever reason.   

[BenCat12]

Or Creighton, for that matter.   But there has to be a balance, because some days the shots just don't fall.   I would agree that MU hasn't had enough shooters recently.   Or, more accurately, had guys who were reputed to be shooters coming in but haven't panned out for whatever reason.   

some of us know the reason, others just refuse to admit the obvious.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Definitely need shooters.  Of course balance is critical, but having multiple threats is so important.

[tower912]

some of us know the reason, others just refuse to admit the obvious.

Be specific.  Derrick scored almost 20 a game in HS.   Same with Juan.   Jamail Jones.   STjr had range out to the 3 pt line.   So did Jamil.   Jake was a very good 3 pt shooter.    Are you saying Buzz can't coach?   Turns them into worse shooters?   It isn't the offensive scheme, as we saw with the midgets that if there are good 3 pt shooters the offense will always get them looks.    So, be specific. 

[BenCat12]

Be specific. 

In a word, "coaching."
More specifically, passing up wide open threes because......."OH MY GOD THE BALL DIDN"T TOUCH THE PAINT YET!" 

[tower912]

I modified mine after your post, bencat.   Fair enough.   We will disagree again. 

[teamdee]

Relax 4everwarriors, lets see if Bucky gets to the Elite 8, long way to go, don't get jumpy.

[BenCat12]

I modified mine after your post, bencat.   Fair enough.   We will disagree again. 

That's just it, I don't know how you can disagree with it.  We have seen guys pass up open threes time and again the last two seasons.  It comes from two things.  Lack of confidence and Buzz's scheme.  We have heard that guys get pulled for taking a three if the ball hadn't reached the paint on a possession.  Why do STjr and Juan look so tentative on offense?  It is usually because they are left wide open and they don't know what to do.  Teams sag off of Derrick, pack the paint on Davante, which leaves the small forward position wide open.  STjr and Juan always struggle with using their instinct (knock down the open shot) and doing what Buzz wants (pass up the open shot and get the ball in the paint).  It is a decision they shouldn't have to make.  Watch the games over the next two days and tell me how many guys pass up wide open three point shots, regardless of time left on the clock or whether or not the ball touched the paint.  Buzz's scheme made zero sense this season;  ball has touch the paint on every possession, yet he plays guys that allow that philosophy to be taken away by the opposing team.  Talk about banging your head against the wall.  "Paint Touches" ruins the flow of the game and it ruins the comfort and confidence of shooters.

[Hards Alumni]

Ya need shooters at all 5 positions, hey? Suckers come off the bench and knock it down. Yeah, beat a chitty team, but their defense is solid and consistent. Like the fact Bo has a system and recruits and teaches his system. They're not gonna beat themselves. One hell of a coach.

I'll take a clue from them when they surpass the post season success of Marquette... or when they beat a higher seeded team in the tournament for the second time under Bo Ryan (13 years!).

[Silkk the Shaka]

That's just it, I don't know how you can disagree with it.  We have seen guys pass up open threes time and again the last two seasons.  It comes from two things.  Lack of confidence and Buzz's scheme.  We have heard that guys get pulled for taking a three if the ball hadn't reached the paint on a possession.  Why do STjr and Juan look so tentative on offense?  It is usually because they are left wide open and they don't know what to do.  Teams sag off of Derrick, pack the paint on Davante, which leaves the small forward position wide open.  STjr and Juan always struggle with using their instinct (knock down the open shot) and doing what Buzz wants (pass up the open shot and get the ball in the paint).  It is a decision they shouldn't have to make.  Watch the games over the next two days and tell me how many guys pass up wide open three point shots, regardless of time left on the clock or whether or not the ball touched the paint.  Buzz's scheme made zero sense this season;  ball has touch the paint on every possession, yet he plays guys that allow that philosophy to be taken away by the opposing team.  Talk about banging your head against the wall.  "Paint Touches" ruins the flow of the game and it ruins the comfort and confidence of shooters.

You do realize that Buzz' second season we did nothing but bomb threes right? And that players like Crowder & DJO bombed away with impunity too, right? And Jake had several games of 6+ attempts this year. Who on the squad outside of Jake the past 2 years would you want to see launching with any consistency? And are you really gonna complain about a BE champ/E8 season that we didn't shoot more threes? Talk about extrapolating from one bad season....

[BenCat12]

You do realize that Buzz' second season we did nothing but bomb threes right? And that players like Crowder & DJO bombed away with impunity too, right? And Jake had several games of 6+ attempts this year. Who on the squad outside of Jake the past 2 years would you want to see launching with any consistency? And are you really gonna complain about a BE champ/E8 season that we didn't shoot more threes? Talk about extrapolating from one bad season....

Every season is different.  That is why I bolded "this season" in my post.  There has been next to zero improvement on three point shooting for the guys currently in the program.  That is my point.  Guys like Juan, Jamil, STjr, Todd, JJJ, Dawson, and obviously Jake are all capable of knocking down three point shots.  But their has been no improvement in any of them in this area, in fact some I believe have regressed.  Is it all on the players, that it seems to be program wide?  My biggest complaint about Buzz playing Jake all year was that he made very little effort to get Jake clean looks.  Jake was used more as a decoy than an actual threat to stretch the floor.  It is awfully difficult to get the ball in the paint if the opponent doesn't respect your perimeter game.  I believe that if guys were given the green light to shoot when they are open, they would be better shooters and play with more confidence......maybe I am wrong.  But again, tell me how many teams that are playing over the next two days pass up as many wide open looks as we do.

[tower912]

I would agree that Jake needed to have more plays run for him.   I would agree that Juan, STjr, and Jamil all regressed shooting the 3.   I would agree that a staple of MU's offense, the trail 3, (made in previous years by Lazar, Jae, Jamil, Juan, STjr) was missing.    'Paint Touches' is just a Buzz euphemism for something most coaches teach.   In the half-court, move the ball.  Inside, outside, ball reversal, make the defense rotate and recover, if the opening is there for either a wide open shot or a slash to the basket off of a poor defensive reaction, take it.   Don't just pass it around the perimeter.   In the half-court, don't just do one pass and fire, unless you are running a play to get that shot (as I agree MU should have done more of with Jake).    I also don't understand why, when MU would get a break opportunity, why Jake wouldn't run to the 3 pt line and shoot when open.   He passed up a dozen open looks on the break.   
   

[Silkk the Shaka]

Every season is different.  That is why I bolded "this season" in my post.  There has been next to zero improvement on three point shooting for the guys currently in the program.  That is my point.  Guys like Juan, Jamil, STjr, Todd, JJJ, Dawson, and obviously Jake are all capable of knocking down three point shots.  But their has been no improvement in any of them in this area, in fact some I believe have regressed.  Is it all on the players, that it seems to be program wide?  My biggest complaint about Buzz playing Jake all year was that he made very little effort to get Jake clean looks.  Jake was used more as a decoy than an actual threat to stretch the floor.  It is awfully difficult to get the ball in the paint if the opponent doesn't respect your perimeter game.  I believe that if guys were given the green light to shoot when they are open, they would be better shooters and play with more confidence......maybe I am wrong.  But again, tell me how many teams that are playing over the next two days pass up as many wide open looks as we do.

Jake had the green light. He shot ~6 threes/game. Same rate as Crowder, DJO, Hayward, McNeal. Who else on this year's team did you want launching? Derrick?

[BenCat12]

Jake had the green light. He shot ~6 threes/game. Same rate as Crowder, DJO, Hayward, McNeal. Who else on this year's team did you want launching? Derrick?

Those players you listed could all do other things that made them valuable.  Jake is a one trick pony.  He needed 8+ attempts a game to make him worthy of playing time.  Buzz did a poor job getting him clean looks.  A lot of Jakes attempts were when we were down huge, those shot attempts weren't in the flow of every game. 

I'm not going to keep explaining the same things over and over.  Re-read the posts in this thread.

[The Equalizer]

Jake had the green light. He shot ~6 threes/game. Same rate as Crowder, DJO, Hayward, McNeal. Who else on this year's team did you want launching? Derrick?

The stats might be eye opening for you.

National Rank of number of 3FGA
2009: 62nd
2010: 78th
2011: 212th
2012: 157th
2013: 276th
2014: 303rd

And national rank for number of 3 point FG made
2009: 63rd
2010: 22nd
2011: 192nd
2012: 160th
2013: 309th
2014: 308th

Either Buzz isn't recruiting 3 point shooters.  Or he's not developing those he has.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The stats might be eye opening for you.

National Rank of number of 3FGA
2009: 62nd
2010: 78th
2011: 212th
2012: 157th
2013: 276th
2014: 303rd

And national rank for number of 3 point FG made
2009: 63rd
2010: 22nd
2011: 192nd
2012: 160th
2013: 309th
2014: 308th

Either Buzz isn't recruiting 3 point shooters.  Or he's not developing those he has.

How were we only 160 in 2012?

[Litehouse]

Given our roster this year, I'd rather take my chances in the paint with Davante than let guys fire away from three.

[brandx]

Be specific.  Derrick scored almost 20 a game in HS.   Same with Juan.   Jamail Jones.   STjr had range out to the 3 pt line.   So did Jamil.   Jake was a very good 3 pt shooter.    Are you saying Buzz can't coach?   Turns them into worse shooters?   It isn't the offensive scheme, as we saw with the midgets that if there are good 3 pt shooters the offense will always get them looks.    So, be specific. 

Doesn't matter if Derrick averaged 30 in HS. He wasn't a shooter then and still isn't (never will be). Being a scorer and being a shooter are two completely different things.

[Tugg Speedman]

Ya need shooters at all 5 positions, hey? Suckers come off the bench and knock it down. Yeah, beat a chitty team, but their defense is solid and consistent. Like the fact Bo has a system and recruits and teaches his system. They're not gonna beat themselves. One hell of a coach.

Izzo said that college basketball fans forget what happened three weeks ago, let alone three years ago.  Thanks to  4ever for being a living breathing example of this.

4ever forgets Bucky's 1 and 5 stretch in late January where they had leads in almost every game and choked it away, repeatedly.  He forgets that during this stretch Bucky went from ranked #3 to unranked in three weeks.  also during this stretch the fans in the Kohl Hole booed this team and Bo for playing so bad.  4ever also forgets them losing to Northwestern at home, then losing at Minnesota and then have the lead with seconds left against Ohio State at home only to literally throw the ball to Aaron Craft to allow tOSU to win the game ... as bad a choke as anyone had in division 1 basketball this year.

Bucky beat themselves many times in late January but since that was more than three weeks ago, all the typical fan like 4ever can see is a perfect record and a perfect coach for the last three weeks.  So as far as he is concerned this has been the case since they played with peach baskets.

Thanks for proving Izzo right yet again.

[Silkk the Shaka]

The stats might be eye opening for you.

National Rank of number of 3FGA
2009: 62nd
2010: 78th
2011: 212th
2012: 157th
2013: 276th
2014: 303rd

And national rank for number of 3 point FG made
2009: 63rd
2010: 22nd
2011: 192nd
2012: 160th
2013: 309th
2014: 308th

Either Buzz isn't recruiting 3 point shooters.  Or he's not developing those he has.

How does this in any way refute the post you quoted about individual players' 3PA/G?

[4everwarriors]

Izzo said that college basketball fans forget what happened three weeks ago, let alone three years ago.  Thanks to  4ever for being a living breathing example of this.

4ever forgets Bucky's 1 and 5 stretch in late January where they had leads in almost every game and choked it away, repeatedly.  He forgets that during this stretch Bucky went from ranked #3 to unranked in three weeks.  also during this stretch the fans in the Kohl Hole booed this team and Bo for playing so bad.  4ever also forgets them losing to Northwestern at home, then losing at Minnesota and then have the lead with seconds left against Ohio State at home only to literally throw the ball to Aaron Craft to allow tOSU to win the game ... as bad a choke as anyone had in division 1 basketball this year.

Bucky beat themselves many times in late January but since that was more than three weeks ago, all the typical fan like 4ever can see is a perfect record and a perfect coach for the last three weeks.  So as far as he is concerned this has been the case since they played with peach baskets.

Thanks for proving Izzo right yet again.

The difference is Bo righted his southbound ship into a 2 seed when the entire season could've made like the Titanic. Good coaches can do that.
Yo, haven't forgotten the debacle of years past doe, aka, Coach Crean.

[The Equalizer]

How does this in any way refute the post you quoted about individual players' 3PA/G?

You said:

Jake had the green light. He shot ~6 threes/game. Same rate as Crowder, DJO, Hayward, McNeal. Who else on this year's team did you want launching? Derrick?

The problem isn't with any one player.  Its with the team as a whole.  The entire team collectively is way down in terms of 3 point shot attempts--and its not one player, and its not the composition of just this year's team--its a multi-year trend. 

[willie warrior]

In a word, "coaching."
More specifically, passing up wide open threes because......."OH MY GOD THE BALL DIDN"T TOUCH THE PAINT YET!" 

Oh no...oh no...Could it be that the much maligned (on this board), Bo knows how to coach big time, while our coach is still learning on the fly?