Al McGuire an FBI target

[ChicosBailBonds]

I heard the story from you first when it happened in 1999 or whenever. At that time you insinuated there was more to the story and your initial response to my 2008 post suggests that as well..

Please show me how my initial response in 2008 suggests anything of the kind?  In fact, I was pretty clear that it was much to do about nothing....which is exactly the case.  So you'll have to show me where my 2008 post "suggests that as well" because it clearly doesn't.  Nor would it, nothing happened. 

Secondly, you didn't hear anything from me in 1999 because I was an employee at the time and I didn't utilize any of the boards while an employee.  You're hearing things or confusing it with someone else, but as long as you are insinuating and have a few TC haters here on full Viagra doses, I think I at least deserve an explanation on how my post suggests anything of the kind as you just implied.

[real chili 83]

Please show me how my initial response in 2008 suggests anything of the kind?  In fact, I was pretty clear that it was much to do about nothing....which is exactly the case.  So you'll have to show me where my 2008 post "suggests that as well" because it clearly doesn't.  Nor would it, nothing happened. 

Secondly, you didn't hear anything from me in 1999 because I was an employee at the time and I didn't utilize any of the boards while an employee.  You're hearing things or confusing it with someone else, but as long as you are insinuating and have a few TC haters here on full Viagra doses, I think I at least deserve an explanation on how my post suggests anything of the kind as you just implied.

JD, you know you aren't going to win this one.

It's the court of public opinion.

Besides, Crean's an ......  Fill in the blank.

[dgies9156]

Oh good grief. Now back to Al.

My general recollection (and this dates to my childhood) was that the NCAA had it in for Al. He was brash, arrogant and obnoxious. His players were African Americans who played street ball -- and you knew it. When we won, we cut down the nets with a switchblade rather than the medical tape scissors that most teams used. A lot of folks -- are you listening Adolph Rupp -- didn't like Al and didn't like what our basketball team stood for. Marquette was a leader in fairness and most of us who understood what MU was about and what Al was about, knew that.

Add to that the fact as another poster pointed out, Marquette was the only team ever to spurn the NCAA and you get an FBI investigation.

I suspect Al kept a lot of this inside himself. The closest he ever got to going over the top about it was in 1977 when we were playing for the national title. We had beaten Kansas State by the skin of our teeth and in his post-game comments, Al went off the deep end about the NCAA, the referees and his apparent view that the NCAA had it in for Marquette. I don't doubt that Walter Byers called Hoover's corrupt FBI and started something. Hoover, who probably was one of the most corrupt public servants in American history, was only too happy to have yet another famous American under his thumb.

After reading the piece, I don't doubt Edgar Hoover went after Al. I also suspect he found nothing. Perhaps the most telling part of the article was Hugh McMahon's subsequent post debunking a good bit of what the author, and Byers, alleged.

[ChicosBailBonds]

JD, you know you aren't going to win this one.

It's the court of public opinion.

Besides, Crean's an ......  Fill in the blank.

I've said many times he's an ......

I just want to know how what I said in that thread suggests what he thinks it does.  Nothing to do with public opinion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall.  Does he still teach at MU?

[real chili 83]

I've said many times he's an ......

I just want to know how what I said in that thread suggests what he thinks it does.  Nothing to do with public opinion.

I probably should have used teal.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall.  Does he still teach at MU?

He does, surprisingly.  He was ancient when I had him in 96.  (Wikipedia has him at 77).  He is a Hoover expert.  He got some pub recently, don't remember what for (anniversary of hoover's death maybe?)

[MARQKC]

March 1970 - Al tells the NCAA to pound sand, goes to New York and wins the NIT

March 1971 - Based on a tip, the FBI is knee deep in an investigation (unsubstantiated and soon dropped) of possible point shaving by Al and his Marquette Warriors.

Pretty easy to connect those dots.

I think that's exactly right. But I'll get it a little closer. Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

Back in those days, they played a regional consolation game. Al McGuire and the Marquette Warriors beat Adolph Rupp and the Kentucky Wildcats 91-74 for third place in the Mideast Regional.

That score is a severe spanking for the guy who pretty much owned the Mideast Region in the 1960s and '70s. Two weeks later, a confidential informant from the NCAA goes to the FBI. Yeah, I'll connect those dots. NCIS fans, see Gibbs's Rule No. 39: http://ncis.wikia.com/wiki/Gibbs's_Rules.

How much did Rupp own the Mideast Region? I recall the chair of the selection committee in 1970 was from the SEC. Elsewhere on this site and in one or another Al biography, it's reported that Rupp was on the committee himself. Could be; somebody could look all that up. Regardless, Rupp probably personally engineered MU's invitation to the Midwest Regional in 1970 -- the bid that Al declined in favor of the NIT, which, as noted, we won. (Proud to have been there for every session as photographer for the Marquette Tribune and seeing my late, great classmate, Dean Meminger, hoist the MVP trophy in the then 3-year-old Garden, a few miles from his home, in a tournament that featured Pistol Pete Maravich from LSU and Julius Erving from UMass. I have long treasured the memory of Dean holding that square-based trophy atop his round Afro.)

As long as somebody wants to make up wild, crazy-ass conspiracy theories, here's mine: The only reason a confidential informant from the NCAA went to the FBI was because Rupp didn't know anybody in the Mafia. Or, if he did, when the Mafia heard who he wanted to hit, they would've told Rupp to go to hell, or less polite words to that effect not suitable for a family message board. Even the Mafia had its limits, especially in New York.

Biographers and other Alophiles are welcome to correct me, but I'd bet (pun fully intended) that although we only got a regional third place in 1971, Al might have counted that Kentucky win in the 1971 Mideast Regional as No. 2 on his all-time favorite victories list, right after the final game of his career.

Beyond the ludicrous suggestion that Al was involved in "sports bribery," though, this passage especially rankled me: "The amazing part of Marquette's success was McGuire's seemingly poor fit for his coaching duties. As he explained to Sports Illustrated's Frank Deford, "I hate everything about this job except the games.'"

I vividly recall Roy Williams saying pretty much the same thing when he was at Kansas. Indeed, I defy anyone to find any college basketball coach anywhere who says he enjoys anything about the job more than the games.

Ring Out, Ahoya!

[MARQKC]

I also suspect he found nothing.

Exactly right. The article included a link to the FBI file: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2a47bNilHYAY01UY3RSYk9icmc/edit.

The last page says they found nothing.

[dgies9156]

Exactly right. The article included a link to the FBI file: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2a47bNilHYAY01UY3RSYk9icmc/edit.

The last page says they found nothing.

Your post was interesting and quite informative. I come from a Marquette family and followed MU basketball almost from the day Al got there. What seems to be amazing now -- in reflecting on the tenor of the times -- is how badly the deck was stacked against us.

We've come a long way since then -- or have we?

[Jay Bee]

He was ancient when I had him in 96. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

He does, surprisingly.  He was ancient when I had him in 96.  (Wikipedia has him at 77).  He is a Hoover expert.  He got some pub recently, don't remember what for (anniversary of hoover's death maybe?)

He was one of my advisors, along with Dr. Wolfe.  Interesting men.

[keefe]

He was ancient when I had him in 96. 

How did you "Have Him?"

[Coleman]

I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall.  Does he still teach at MU?

He might teach a class every now and then, but he's definitely an Emeritus. They had a big retirement shindig for him when I was a student in the history department, which was 7-8 years ago now

[Coleman]

Chicos, were you a fellow history major?

Amazing how those bemoaned liberal arts majors still end up doing ok once in a while

[murphmurphy]

History repeats itself.  I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI.  An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game.  Guilty

[real chili 83]

History repeats itself.  I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI.  An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game.  Guilty

Ha.  Lol.

[Jay Bee]

Chicos, were you a fellow history major?

Amazing how those bemoaned liberal arts majors still end up doing ok once in a while

Lib arts alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad

[Coleman]

History repeats itself.  I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI.  An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game.  Guilty

The informant goes by Agent Ners

[Coleman]

Lib arts alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad

Myself included.

I still wouldn't call it worthless though. There are an incredibly dumbfounding number of people in corporate America who don't know how to compose an email.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Lib arts alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad

Hey! I got a lib arts degree alone, and I got a job....in a field totally unrelated to my major....wait, I see your point