Todd Mayo Last 9 Games vs first 20

[NersEllenson]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Todd is our only dangerous player off the dribble from outside. He  puts pressure on defenses to react as he moves with the ball, looking to penetrate first not pass along the perimeter.
Can't wait to see him let loose next year. I'm afraid we will see the same old ,same old in the BET
But I hope not and will be cheering them ALL on as will everybody on Scoop.

[forgetful]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

But according to advanced stats having Jake on the floor is better for our overall offense…

Todd's upturn recently is most likely due to the fact that he is starting to get it (all of it) and is adapting to his role on the team.  Also who knows the lingering impacts of his injury early in the season and if that impacted his earlier performances.

Or maybe, it is because the team started to gel, because of Buzz's coaching, and Mayo's increased performance represents general overall team improvement that allows him to do his thing.

[NickelDimer]

I have a feeling that next year, without anyone to defer to, Mayo will have a very special season.  The type of memorable season we've seen from guys like Lazar, Butler, Crowder and DJO. 

[mu03eng]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

So why do you think Buzz didn't play Mayo more?  And is this a cause or an effect?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So why do you think Buzz didn't play Mayo more?  And is this a cause or an effect?

Great question

[MUCam]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

Whoa. Talk about a simplistic and flawed argument based on non sequitur.

Maybe.....JUST MAYBE.....the reason that Todd didn't play more earlier is because he wasn't ready. I am not saying that that was the case, but you cannot support your argument. Your argument assumes, without basis, that Todd would have produced the same over the first twenty games. It completely discounts progress over the season, or the lingering effects of Todd's late summer knee surgery. However, you have absolutely no way of knowing how Todd would have performed in the first 20 games.

The world is not black and white.

[mug644]

I have a feeling that next year, without anyone to defer to, Mayo will have a very special season.  The type of memorable season we've seen from guys like Lazar, Butler, Crowder and DJO. 

While I'd like to be optimistic here, I feel that even this season 'debunks' the idea of someone stepping up and having "a very special season" when there is no one to defer to. Being the key (only?) significant offensive threat means you attract the vast amount of attention of the defense. Todd has become a better passer, but there is no denying that he's played much of his MU career as a score first player. That's why I don't get the call for him to shift over to point guard.

Not saying it won't happen, but neither am I confident that it will, even if it could.

[jesmu84]

Ners, your opinion may be right. But, it also might not be. As pointed out, there's lots of assumptions made in your thoughts. MUCam and Forgetful bring up a lot of good points. I'd actually say you could extend this conversation to Burton as well - he's playing more minutes now because he's improved in Buzz's eyes.

[Big Papi]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

We are also on a 3 game losing streak so I don't know how you can argue 3+ more wins.  Not arguing his value to the team and I am not saying that he shouldn't have played extended minutes all year, just saying we lost 3 games in a row with him playing a good amount of minutes so again I don't know how you can argue 3+ more wins.

I don't think this is some easy jig-saw puzzle to piece together that way some of you couch-potato coaches make it seem like.

[mattyv1908]

If Todd Mayo perhaps wasn't ready what does it say about his two primary back court mates who logged the top two spots in minutes?

One was horrible all season.
One was sporatic and had many complete games where he was a ghost out on the court along with some great games.

If anything, Mayo was the most starting NCAA ready guard this team had this season.

[chapman]

If Todd Mayo perhaps wasn't ready what does it say about his two primary back court mates who logged the top two spots in minutes?

One was horrible all season.
One was sporatic and had many complete games where he was a ghost out on the court along with some great games.

If anything, Mayo was the most starting NCAA ready guard this team had this season.

I've always been curious about this.  After not being able to practice or play until mid-December due to academics, Mayo immediately took Thomas' minutes last year and relegated him to garbage time.  Despite being ready to practice from the get-go, it was Thomas who had the edge in the rotation and total minutes all year.  Did Thomas improve dramatically by the start of this season, Mayo plateau or start slow after the surgery, something else?  The results on the court don't seem to indicate Thomas was far superior, and if Mayo didn't "earn it" this year, how did he "earned it" last year when he supplanted Thomas immediately when he came back, despite missing the first semester?   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Im not going to give Buzz too much flack for not giving Todd max minutes at the start of this year. Jake has played pretty well and Todd ran into some trouble in the beginning of the year again. We dont know the inner workings of the program. The important thing is that Todd keeps improving and doesnt stay stagnant.

[NersEllenson]

Whoa. Talk about a simplistic and flawed argument based on non sequitur.

Maybe.....JUST MAYBE.....the reason that Todd didn't play more earlier is because he wasn't ready. I am not saying that that was the case, but you cannot support your argument. Your argument assumes, without basis, that Todd would have produced the same over the first twenty games. It completely discounts progress over the season, or the lingering effects of Todd's late summer knee surgery. However, you have absolutely no way of knowing how Todd would have performed in the first 20 games.

The world is not black and white.

Your argument is flawed in that:

Game 1 of the season:  20 points in 20 minutes
Game 4 of the season:  16 points in 22 minutes

If Todd had lingering effects of his offseason injury, he wouldn't have put up the above respectable numbers.  So, sorry, I'm not buying your notion that he wasn't capable of producing at the same rate he has the last 9 games, in the first 20. 

Perhaps Todd was in Buzz's doghouse as he's often been, and sometimes earned his way into - but, not having him on the floor 30+ minutes every game does in no way give this team the best chance at winning.  And at the end of the day, Buzz is judged on wins/losses more than he is anything else..like it or not.

Blows my mind how some want to discount the obvious.  Anyone who thinks Mayo isn't one of the best 5 guys on this team and isn't deserving of getting commensurate minutes is living in some kind of alternate universe.

[mu03eng]

Your argument is flawed in that:

Game 1 of the season:  20 points in 20 minutes
Game 4 of the season:  16 points in 22 minutes

If Todd had lingering effects of his offseason injury, he wouldn't have put up the above respectable numbers.  So, sorry, I'm not buying your notion that he wasn't capable of producing at the same rate he has the last 9 games, in the first 20. 

Perhaps Todd was in Buzz's doghouse as he's often been, and sometimes earned his way into - but, not having him on the floor 30+ minutes every game does in no way give this team the best chance at winning.  And at the end of the day, Buzz is judged on wins/losses more than he is anything else..like it or not.

Blows my mind how some want to discount the obvious.  Anyone who thinks Mayo isn't one of the best 5 guys on this team and isn't deserving of getting commensurate minutes is living in some kind of alternate universe.

You are holding up Mayo's performance against Southern and New Hampshire as a basis for his being able to perform at the same level as at the end of conference play????

[brandx]

Im not going to give Buzz too much flack for not giving Todd max minutes at the start of this year. Jake has played pretty well and Todd ran into some trouble in the beginning of the year again. We dont know the inner workings of the program. The important thing is that Todd keeps improving and doesnt stay stagnant.

As our "shooting" guard, he has scored in single figures in over 2/3 of our games while getting the 2nd most minutes. Averaged less than an assist and a half. Hardly what I would call pretty well while getting 30 minutes a game.

I'm not saying this to knock Jake. He was a valuable contributor - but he should have been getting 15 minutes + a game off the bench rather than 30+.

Todd is clearly a better player.

[NersEllenson]

You are holding up Mayo's performance against Southern and New Hampshire as a basis for his being able to perform at the same level as at the end of conference play????

The poster indicated/hypothesized that Mayo wasn't healthy enough to contribute at similar levels at beginning of year...

But...to your point...on the contrary...then wouldn't you think Mayo's numbers would have regressed in conference play against stiffer competition?

Todd upped his scoring average 6ppg and assists by 1.75pg in 8 more minutes of action the last 9 games. For context, Jake averaged 8.1ppg in 29.7 minutes per game.

I don't have an issue with Jake..he should play alongside Mayo..they play well together, yet I'd have pulled 5 minutes from Jake and all of Juan's and allocated those to Mayo/Burton in looking back on year.

[Class71]

Folks what is done is done. Should Mayo have played more earlier can be debated but it does not help us now. The key is we maximize his minutes now and go with him. I think we also need to gamble on some freshman for offensive punch. You know the name(s) and where the minutes are to come from. Let's hope Buzz takes the gamble that has some reasonably good odds of success. Regrettably not doing so and goIng with the same old same old will end our season quickly. IMHO we do not have a realistic alternative.

[forgetful]

Your argument is flawed in that:

Game 1 of the season:  20 points in 20 minutes
Game 4 of the season:  16 points in 22 minutes

If Todd had lingering effects of his offseason injury, he wouldn't have put up the above respectable numbers.  So, sorry, I'm not buying your notion that he wasn't capable of producing at the same rate he has the last 9 games, in the first 20. 

Perhaps Todd was in Buzz's doghouse as he's often been, and sometimes earned his way into - but, not having him on the floor 30+ minutes every game does in no way give this team the best chance at winning.  And at the end of the day, Buzz is judged on wins/losses more than he is anything else..like it or not.

Blows my mind how some want to discount the obvious.  Anyone who thinks Mayo isn't one of the best 5 guys on this team and isn't deserving of getting commensurate minutes is living in some kind of alternate universe.

You're forgetting his injured ankle that kept him out against ASU and his broken nose.  I was referring to the ankle injury.

[The Lens]

I love Todd Mayo...but he found himself SUSPENDED for the Badger game this year.  Seems pretty clear to me Buzz wasn't the only one keeping Todd on the bench.  I'm a believer that in this life, we make our own circumstances.

[77ncaachamps]

Whoa. Talk about a simplistic and flawed argument based on non sequitur.

Maybe.....JUST MAYBE.....the reason that Todd didn't play more earlier is because he wasn't ready. I am not saying that that was the case, but you cannot support your argument. Your argument assumes, without basis, that Todd would have produced the same over the first twenty games. It completely discounts progress over the season, or the lingering effects of Todd's late summer knee surgery. However, you have absolutely no way of knowing how Todd would have performed in the first 20 games.

The world is not black and white.

But the W/L columns are.

Let's say you're right. Maybe he wasn't ready.

Yet, in every one of those 9 games - with the exception of Creighton - MU either won...or lost...by one point.

The fact that Mayo has more offensive punch than DWil + Jake combined is enough to warrant more minutes.
He can be erratic and make head pounding mistakes and TOs, but at this time of the year, we need game changers. And he definitely is one.

[MUCam]

But the W/L columns are.

Let's say you're right. Maybe he wasn't ready.

Yet, in every one of those 9 games - with the exception of Creighton - MU either won...or lost...by one point.

The fact that Mayo has more offensive punch than DWil + Jake combined is enough to warrant more minutes.
He can be erratic and make head pounding mistakes and TOs, but at this time of the year, we need game changers. And he definitely is one.

For the record, I have never said he was or was not ready. All I stated is that the argument put forth above is logically flawed; it is a non sequitur based on an assumed and unestablished premises. There are other variables unaccounted for.

I believe that propositions such as the one put forth in the original post should be held to some logical accountability.

For what it's worth, I am not a huge Mayo fan, but he really is the only one that has possessed the killer instinct and play making ability that this team sorely lacks. I believe you are right in saying he should play more. I am just not going to jump to an unsupported and logically flawed conclusion that playing him more earlier would have added 3+ wins.

[forgetful]

Todd's minutes took a significant upturn 9 games ago.  For last 9 games:

29.5 minutes per game
15.1 ppg
3.2 assist per game

Prior to those 9 games (20 games, did not count 2 games he didn't play):

21.05 minutes
9.15 ppg
1.45 assists per game

Arguably conference play would be considered tougher competition, and we see the above rise in production.  Todd not being on the floor 33 minutes a game like Vander got last year...cost this team a lot of points...and assists...and I'd argue 3+ more wins.

Funny what happens when you let talented guys get into a rhythm, play through mistakes and get into a flow - eventually that talent rises to the top.

Missed opportunity, along with not playing Gardner 32 minutes every night regardless...

Also please provide us a list of which specific 3+ games we would have won in your opinion and how Mayo would have achieved that.

[NersEllenson]

Also please provide us a list of which specific 3+ games we would have won in your opinion and how Mayo would have achieved that.

The numbers speak for themselves...Mayo should have been playing a lot more all year long.  Period.  If you want to split hairs....I'd think Butler, New Mexico, and San Diego State all were potential wins....and of course if we didn't totally and completely brick it (not to mention names responsible) against Providence we win that game.

Mayo's numbers - so closely parallel Vander's last year - that it is virtually a certainty that if he was given 33 minutes per game from the outset as VAnder averaged last year...it would have resulted in 113 more points over the course of the 29 game season.  Vander played in 34 games last year...scored 502 on the year for 14ppg average....subtracting 5 games for Mayo as we've played 5 less games results in 14x5 = 70 points less than Vander's season total (502-70)  432.  Todd scored 319 for the year through 29 games.  Think those 113 points left on bench or 3.89 per game could have helped this team win a few more games...

[MU82]

While I'd like to be optimistic here, I feel that even this season 'debunks' the idea of someone stepping up and having "a very special season" when there is no one to defer to. Being the key (only?) significant offensive threat means you attract the vast amount of attention of the defense. Todd has become a better passer, but there is no denying that he's played much of his MU career as a score first player. That's why I don't get the call for him to shift over to point guard.

Not saying it won't happen, but neither am I confident that it will, even if it could.

I don't think Mayo will be the only significant offensive threat next season. Burton has shown that if given the opportunity he can score -- and probably score a lot.

It will be interesting to see how they play off of each other if the offense is built around them: Mayo more on the perimeter but also a slasher to the hoop; Burton more on the interior but also with ability to make some J's.

Obviously, some other players will need to develop. One obvious need will be somebody who can stop the other team's big -- Taylor? Fischer? An even more pressing need will be somebody who can make 3's consistently -- Duane? JJJ? A frosh or two?

Mayo and Burton will create lots of open looks for their teammates. Question A will be "Can anybody make a 3?" Question B will be "Will either Mayo or Burton be willing to give up the rock?"