St John's thoughts

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

We made mistakes, but I really thought we played well today.

[muwarrior97]

The offense all year was dribble around for awhile then find someone to throw something up and hurt the rim/backboard, etc.  

Maybe need to add Shooting to the recruiting checklist, switch-ables are great and all but it does help to put a few in the basket too....

S16, S16, E8 and Dud....I'll take that every 4 years, thank you Seniors!!

Next year looks bleak though so maybe they are flipping the 4 year order before we go on another postseason binge.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Burton played very well in the first half.  He is a dominant player.  Why didn't Buzz play him in the second half?  Why did Buzz play De Wilson so much in the second half?  He was beaten repeatedly on defense and as we all know is awful on offense!

[forgetful]

There wasn't a breakdown between Burton and Gardner...you aren't trying to get to your go to attempt at the 8 second mark and Gardner and Burton were trying to get into a favorable switch..

I notice you posted a statement by me noted as a "retraction," all along I have indicated that there was a breakdown in the play that led to a breakdown between Burton and Gardner.  My follow up statement was just that after rewatching it, the first appearance that it was Burton's error may not be right, rather it may have been on Gardner.

They were most definitely not trying to get into a favorable switch. 

[brandx]

Someone who is a, "whiner" posed this question the other day about the preciousness of the opening tip and possessions.  If the tip is so important that Buzz has to start Otule and sit Gardner, why is it that he never goes for the 2 for 1, when the situation presents itself.

That is one of my pet peeves in college hoops - such a simple, common sense move, yet it is not only Buzz that doesn't do it. I'd guess it is more like 75% of coaches. In the NBA it is standard operating procedure.

But there have been so many times this year where we have the ball with a minute to a minute and ten seconds and we run the clock all the way down and take a shot with 30 seconds left. I scream at the TV every time Buzz does that. Why not run a play right away? If the defense stops it, re-set. But id you get a shot off in under 20 seconds, you are gonna get the ball back again.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So this is to the point that the refs were really on our side after all?  Funny logic.

No, it is to the point that to say all the close calls in the last 20 minutes of the game went against us is absurd. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Situations like today's last 11 seconds of regulation can always be viewed two different ways, with both being equally accurate. One view says team A blew it. The other says team B seized the opportunity. What dictates that view is based on whether you're a fan of A or B, not whether you're on the side of reality vs bias

My point is, with you, you always recognize and emphasize the failure's of Marquette's opponent.  You never give equal credit to Marquette's successes.  What Marquette did in those 11 seconds, THEIR part in that, wasn't luck.  You fail to see that...ever.  It's more an attitude of yours that's consistent with much of what you post rather than playing the role of the "realist" as you try to defend it as being.  

Always, never....lazy words.

I'm looking for consistency.  If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it.  If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it.  If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.

I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did.  Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up.  SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion.  I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written.  Fans are a funny bunch.

[We R Final Four]

No, it is to the point that to say all the close calls in the last 20 minutes of the game went against us is absurd. 

That is not what anyone said.

[We R Final Four]

Always, never....lazy words.

I'm looking for consistency.  If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it.  If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it.  If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.

I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did.  Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up.  SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion.  I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written.  Fans are a funny bunch.

Same old sheet from CBB.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know this will SHOCK you, but SJU fans thought the refs screwed them.  Same game, different perspective based on which ox is in the process of being gored and the lens from which one sits.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=400504601

[MU82]

Someone who is a, "whiner" posed this question the other day about the preciousness of the opening tip and possessions.  If the tip is so important that Buzz has to start Otule and sit Gardner, why is it that he never goes for the 2 for 1, when the situation presents itself.

This is a great question. I know, because I asked it -- OK, I screamed it -- while watching the game with two MU buds. "2-for-1! Go for the 2-for-1! Why do we NEVER go for the 2-for-1?!?!?!"

Rather than have Derrick dribble for 25 seconds there, you get the rock to Mayo immediately so he can take it hard to the hoop. If he's open or can draw a foul, shoot. If he's covered, pitch out to Jake or Jamil for the 3. Even if you come away with nothing, you will have the final possession.

But no. I'd love to ask Buzz why he never does this. It's so elementary.

[thehammock]

MU had a chance for a 2-for-1 in the Georgetown game in the last minute but dribbled 30 feet out for 25 seconds.  Granted, things played out in their favor.

[MUDPT]

We also tried to run the "Vander" play with Todd at the end of the first OT. It would have been awesome if it had worked, since it was one day short of being the anniversary of the Vander shot to beat St. John's in OT at the Garden.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That is not what anyone said.

You're right...oh wait...only the thread starter said it

"5.   The officiating was like MU was on the road.   Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU."


Same old sheet from We R Final Four

[muwarrior97]

Finally got around to listening to MUBB basketball show from last week, very surprised to hear Buzz P&M-ing about the schedule this year and implying MU got screwed.......though he also adds on that it screwed all the teams in Big East, seems like something you wouldn't expect from Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Finally got around to listening to MUBB basketball show from last week, very surprised to hear Buzz P&M-ing about the schedule this year and implying MU got screwed.......though he also adds on that it screwed all the teams in Big East, seems like something you wouldn't expect from Buzz.

What was the complaint?

[NickelDimer]

Always, never....lazy words.

I'm looking for consistency.  If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it.  If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it.  If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.
I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did.  Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up.  SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion.  I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written.  Fans are a funny bunch.

I clearly acknowledged this in my last response. And I went on to point out that both perspectives are true. The determining factor in one's perspective is rooting interest. I find it unusual that you typically (a wrod of much more effort ) take the perspective of Marquette's opponent.  Once again, NOTHING Marquette did in those last 11 seconds were luck.  Nothing. Nada. (Sorry for more lazy words).

SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion.  

Marquette did an incredible job of capitalizing on their opportunities with their backs against the wall!!! That's how I would expect a fan of a team to view that sequence.  That's all I was saying.  And my original point to you is it seems to be a pattern.  Maybe it's intentionally inflamatory, idk. Probably not much more to discuss without committing serious mental masturbation, so that's all

[NickelDimer]

Listen, the Crean love affair is extremely annoying, no one is denying that.  But Chicos is absolutely right about the Davidson game and the officiating today.  It's not taking away credit, it is pointing out the obvious to those who can look at things objectively. 

What's the obvious? That SJ cracked the door open? Or that Marquette kicked it in after it was cracked? Or both?

[NickelDimer]

What did Chicos say that is false?

I'm the biggest MU fan I know, and a pretty darn positive-thinking one, and it was obvious that St. John's gagged to keep us in it. We still had to make plays, and was thrilled we did, but a crap inbounds pass AND a front-end brick within seconds of each other? If that isn't a choke, there is no such thing.

Now, I'm not talking about Chicos' patterns of comments. I'm talking about this particular comment.

We had a bazillion chances to win this game, some of which we were handed, some of which we earned, and yet there are still folks who want to blame the refs. Ugh.

Can't really get my hands around what you wrote. You're not referring to his pattern...I clearly was.  You're frustraed people are blaming the refs (?). No where in any of my posts did I even mention them. I also never refuted what Chicos said...that SJ made errors. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I clearly acknowledged this in my last response. And I went on to point out that both perspectives are true. The determining factor in one's perspective is rooting interest. I find it unusual that you typically (a wrod of much more effort ) take the perspective of Marquette's opponent.  Once again, NOTHING Marquette did in those last 11 seconds were luck.  Nothing. Nada. (Sorry for more lazy words).
Marquette did an incredible job of capitalizing on their opportunities with their backs against the wall!!! That's how I would expect a fan of a team to view that sequence.  That's all I was saying.  And my original point to you is it seems to be a pattern.  Maybe it's intentionally inflamatory, idk. Probably not much more to discuss without committing serious mental masturbation, so that's all

I'm as big a MU fan as anyone out there.  I try to view things logically, maybe that's why I'm a left brain guy.  I believe for what happened yesterday, multiple things had to happen.  I guess some people can say it was all MU (you didn't say that, nor am I accusing you of this), but I'd rather state the obvious and factual portion....it just seems to me that you and others question fandom when someone points out that truth.  I don't get it.  To each their own. 

[BenCat12]

What's the obvious? That SJ cracked the door open? Or that Marquette kicked it in after it was cracked? Or both?

It's obvious that St. Johns played horrible at the end of regulation and handed it to us (same as Davidson).  Sure, Jake made a great play, but there was more fault in St. John's, than positives from MU.  MU did exactly what it was supposed to do, capitalize on St John's mistakes.  I look at things objectively, sometimes the team and Buzz are great (Miami last year) sometimes they are awful (a good majority of this season).  But I am always more interested in how they play rather than the results. 

[mu-rara]

I give credit when credit is due.  Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say?  To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs),  then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.

I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it.  Sorry if you don't agree.  I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it.  I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged.  Where's the consistency?

I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them.   I have no issue with that.  It's just that you have this trollish tone.  I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune.  I know you will deny this.  Just can't shake the feeling.

[Lennys Tap]

I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them.   I have no issue with that.  It's just that you have this trollish tone.  I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune.  I know you will deny this.  Just can't shake the feeling.

Comebacks are nearly always a combination of good plays by the team making the comeback and one mistake (Davidson) or more (St Johns) by the team losing the lead. Chicos (since April 8, 2008) feels we're lucky whenever we come from behind and are choking dogs when our opponents do. Lose/lose philosophy that will make most people around you miserable but you can defend as being "objective". Sad.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them.   I have no issue with that.  It's just that you have this trollish tone.  I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune.  I know you will deny this.  Just can't shake the feeling.

I'm sure there are many feelings you can't shake...that's on you. 

Nothing I said was inaccurate about that finish in regulation, absolutely NOTHING.  If MU had won, Buzz would have said we were lucky....just as he has in the past.  OK for Buzz to say, not ok for an objective fan to say it.

Go figure.   There is nothing trollish at all about what I said, its just you don't have the ability to separate reality from fandom.  Some of us do.  It's ok, many fans can't do it.  They feel anything that leads to a win is 100% because of their team, and anything that leads to a loss is because the refs jobbed them or something else. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Comebacks are nearly always a combination of good plays by the team making the comeback and one mistake (Davidson) or more (St Johns) by the team losing the lead. Chicos (since April 8, 2008) feels we're lucky whenever we come from behind and are choking dogs when our opponents do. Lose/lose philosophy that will make most people around you miserable but you can defend as being "objective". Sad.

Sentence one = correct except actually Davidson made 3 mistakes, but who is counting...Buzz said we were lucky...go figure.

Sentences 2 - 4, incorrect.  Search is your friend here.  I've said we were lucky during some games (or a derivative of that..."fortunate", etc) prior to Buzz and I've also said we have choked (pissed away, other synonyms) during TC's tenure.  Just go to that little magnifying glass up there and type in the words. 

Just because you don't like objectivity and want to label people that are in a different light doesn't mean you get to change the facts.  This has been a tough year for everyone, probably more so for you than anyone else I should suspect because of the bloviating the last few years.  Fortunately, MU still has a chance in the BET which is going to be a lot easier to win than any of the last 9 years in the old Big East.  Buzz is a really good coach.....you made him out to be Johnny Wooden at times.