Lets say Juan and Jake transferred...

[Galway Eagle]

ok if Juan and Jake had stuck with their transfers this past summer and we were in the same position would we be saying "We could really use what those two would've brought this year?" or do you guys think we'd just flat out be better and not in this position?

[tower912]

It depends on the quality of JuCo's that Buzz would have brought in to fill their shoes, if any.   

[MUfan12]

It depends on the quality of JuCo's that Buzz would have brought in to fill their shoes, if any.   

If he would have been allowed to.

[esotericmindguy]

Why would anyone say that? Thomas has actually been a pleasant surprise the second half of the season and Juan is below average at best. Probably would be in a similar situation, but better positioned to make a run next year.

[keefe]

If he would have been allowed to.

Precisely. We are extremely fortunate Pilarz and Williams were shown the door.

[Nukem2]

It depends on the quality of JuCo's that Buzz would have brought in to fill their shoes, if any.   

They were gone by then.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Juan was a RSCI top 100 recruit....just a reminder.

[Galway Eagle]

Why would anyone say that? Thomas has actually been a pleasant surprise the second half of the season and Juan is below average at best. Probably would be in a similar situation, but better positioned to make a run next year.

Two things: Say what exactly? I didn't remotely state an opinion if you reread what I said I put forth two possible thought processes and then asked what people thought.  Second, yes Thomas has actually been a pleasant surprise for most of the second half of the season that doesn't change the question though, it also doesn't change that he was disappointing early on (would we have won one of those big games?). 

[esotericmindguy]

Juan was a RSCI top 100 recruit....just a reminder.

Wasn't Jamil Jones and Erik Williams as well? I've lost interest in tracking recruits, unless it's guys like Matthews or Stone. Guys where is sounds like you can't miss. The rest is like the Following the NFL draft after the first 5 picks.

[ecompt]

Juan was a RSCI top 100 recruit....just a reminder.

which shows that ratings can be inaccurate.

[Galway Eagle]

Wasn't Jamil Jones and Erik Williams as well? I've lost interest in tracking recruits, unless it's guys like Matthews or Stone. Guys where is sounds like you can't miss. The rest is like the Following the NFL draft after the first 5 picks.

Yes they were.  Add on Jamil Wilson (40) Luke Fisher (71) Ahmed Hill (64) and Sandy Cohen (82) to this list and it's all our top 100 or 150 recruits.  

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/recruiting

[BCHoopster]

I wonder whom is ranking these kids.  I was wondering. What offers he got out west. I always question when player move 2000 miles from home.  I have never watched a player after almost three years be so inept on the offensive end.  What does Buzz see in him or for that matter his assistants. Is his love for these kids blind him as he has no ability?  The team can not get off to a fast start with 3 of those players having no offensive talent on the road, the same problem will happen against Providence.

[ChicosBailBonds]

which shows that ratings can be inaccurate.

Yup, even in a consensus approach like the RSCI uses.

[bilsu]

The best way of rating players is by who is seriously recruiting them.

[mujivitz06]

Marquette, Oregon, Cal, Arizona State were his final 4. He had offers if I remember from nearly everyone on the west coast. He has also had some good contributions at Marquette. Just because he has not fulfilled some of your unrealistic expectations doesn't mean he was or is a failure. No one gives their all quite like Juan does on the court.

[Galway Eagle]

Marquette, Oregon, Cal, Arizona State were his final 4. He had offers if I remember from nearly everyone on the west coast. He has also had some good contributions at Marquette. Just because he has not fulfilled some of your unrealistic expectations doesn't mean he was or is a failure. No one gives their all quite like Juan does on the court.

Like finishing at the basket?  I agree people here often have unrealistic expectations but I have next to none for Juan and he still disappoints them.  I do agree nobody gives their all but in giving his all he often looks too tense going to the basket leading to missed shots.  He needs to turn it all on for D and relax on O

[MUfan12]

Like finishing at the basket?  I agree people here often have unrealistic expectations but I have next to none for Juan and he still disappoints them.  I do agree nobody gives their all but in giving his all he often looks too tense going to the basket leading to missed shots.  He needs to turn it all on for D and relax on O

Injuries really set back his development. Shoulder issues, and a lingering knee issue if I remember correctly.

Every team needs a guy like Juan. A guy that hustles, and does the little things. MU's problem this year is they have too many like him, and not enough gamechangers.

[mujivitz06]

Like finishing at the basket?  I agree people here often have unrealistic expectations but I have next to none for Juan and he still disappoints them.  I do agree nobody gives their all but in giving his all he often looks too tense going to the basket leading to missed shots.  He needs to turn it all on for D and relax on O

He lost some of his confidence offensively somehow lately. That doesn't mean he hasn't ever given us valuable contributions or does so in other ways. Sometimes in life, layups roll off. He has been one of our toughest contributors on the boards and is always committed 100% to the team concept.

[muwarrior69]

He lost some of his confidence offensively somehow lately. That doesn't mean he hasn't ever given us valuable contributions or does so in other ways. Sometimes in life, layups roll off. He has been one of our toughest contributors on the boards and is always committed 100% to the team concept.

Which is why Buzz rewards him with the starting spot. All this talk of the freshman transferring due to playing time is hogwash as far as I am concerned. They can see some of the upper class man may have less talent but are rewarded for their commitment to the team. I am sure they know their turn will come.

[GooooMarquette]

Which is why Buzz rewards him with the starting spot. All this talk of the freshman transferring due to playing time is hogwash as far as I am concerned. They can see some of the upper class man may have less talent but are rewarded for their commitment to the team. I am sure they know their turn will come.

Yep.

[chapman]

Which is why Buzz rewards him with the starting spot. All this talk of the freshman transferring due to playing time is hogwash as far as I am concerned. They can see some of the upper class man may have less talent but are rewarded for their commitment to the team. I am sure they know their turn will come.

Agree that they shouldn't be overly concerned over playing time.  It's the past after all, and a playing time decision should be based on future expectations.  However, on the flip side they see that our starting upperclassmen were mostly high major recruits, and could be concerned that they see their future as another "hard-working team player" who tries hard but isn't very good, and find somewhere else they think they will be better developed.

[BCHoopster]

Marquette, Oregon, Cal, Arizona State were his final 4. He had offers if I remember from nearly everyone on the west coast. He has also had some good contributions at Marquette. Just because he has not fulfilled some of your unrealistic expectations doesn't mean he was or is a failure. No one gives their all quite like Juan does on the court.

I for sure do not see how you can say I have unrealistic expectations.  I would expect a Top 100 recruit to have the ability to put the ball in the hole.  Is that asking to much? Yes, he has other points of his game that are pretty good.  But you have to be able to score.  On a team with 4 other good scorers, he would be an asset.  But on a team that has minimal offense from the point and center (Otule), even Jamil he adds to the problem.  A wing needs to score or the 2 guard to be successful.  Last year Vander scored and JC, Trent at least had some offensive
ability.  The game today is about shooting the 3, no denying that.  And stopping the 3, MU does not do that.  The second point is Buzz and help defense.  I think I would rather have the players guard like Wisconsin defends, the help D against a team like Creighton and Villy show it does not work.  They pretty much took it to MU this year.  I want to make one more point, it is the ability for the coach to recruit, not sure how you can recruit players who can not shoot the ball, Derrick and Juan together on the floor is ridiculous.  Dawson may not be ready to play full time, but when he hits a three it opens up the offense. 

[ecompt]

He lost some of his confidence offensively somehow lately. That doesn't mean he hasn't ever given us valuable contributions or does so in other ways. Sometimes in life, layups roll off. He has been one of our toughest contributors on the boards and is always committed 100% to the team concept.

He wasn't so committed to the MU team concept when he tried to transfer.

[MUfan12]

He wasn't so committed to the MU team concept when he tried to transfer.

You have no idea what you're talking about here.

[mujivitz06]

Agree that they shouldn't be overly concerned over playing time.  It's the past after all, and a playing time decision should be based on future expectations.  However, on the flip side they see that our starting upperclassmen were mostly high major recruits, and could be concerned that they see their future as another "hard-working team player" who tries hard but isn't very good, and find somewhere else they think they will be better developed.

I doubt any high-rated high school player worries that he isn't very good because some older kids aren't. That's just silly. If you don't think prospects have a good group of successful players to look at that have been developed under Buzz than you are out of your mind.