Break up California

[ChicosBailBonds]

Plus unnatural carnal knowledgeing One. Couldn't have said it annnnnnnnnnny better.

Here in 2014, federalism is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

We're supposed to be competing with the BRIC nations, not engaged in hand-to-hand combat with increasingly homogenous, arbitrarily defined "states" within our country.

What's the point of separate states anymore?  

If company X wants to pay me $1.5M to come work for them and as a result I can help deliver $100M in incremental revenue to them, would you consider that a good trade off?

If a state wants to offer a company money to move their location, and the state is paid back that sum many times over with new jobs, tax paying employees, etc, etc, how is that a bad thing?

A company should have the right to sell its wares and conduct commerce.  If one state is willing to make that company a lot more competitive in exchange for them moving to that state, it is in the best interests of that company to at least look at the option and decide if it is worth it.  Maybe at the end of the day it will cause the other state to finally do a gut check, look in the mirror and ask some serious questions. 

[Marquette Gyros]

If company X wants to pay me $1.5M to come work for them and as a result I can help deliver $100M in incremental revenue to them, would you consider that a good trade off?

If a state wants to offer a company money to move their location, and the state is paid back that sum many times over with new jobs, tax paying employees, etc, etc, how is that a bad thing?

A company should have the right to sell its wares and conduct commerce.  If one state is willing to make that company a lot more competitive in exchange for them moving to that state, it is in the best interests of that company to at least look at the option and decide if it is worth it.  Maybe at the end of the day it will cause the other state to finally do a gut check, look in the mirror and ask some serious questions. 

That's a great trade off. But you missed my point.

Perhaps as a country, we need to do a gut check, look in the mirror, and ask some serious questions.

Like: instead of encouraging states to fight a zero-sum battle over corporate headquarters, how do we make our country more competitive, and more friendly to business?

Instead of inhibiting interstate commerce and the free flow of people between states, why don't we make it easier for those who choose to relocate from state to state?

Why don't we let the free market reign and ask organizations to locate themselves in the geographies that make the most sense for their businesses, vs. the state that offers the most generous tax breaks?

I know it's a radical opinion, but this state vs. state competition isn't doing our nation any good. Sure, the structure supports hundreds of thousands of horseshit jobs to enforce policy differences and prop up a dated construct of government, but when do we ask ourselves what the fracking point of continuing to enable this waste-of-time layer of government is?

What's the difference between Wisconsin & Minnesota, or North Carolina and Georgia, or California and New York, for that matter?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I did miss it, thank you for clarifying.

[Coleman]

That's a great trade off. But you missed my point.

Perhaps as a country, we need to do a gut check, look in the mirror, and ask some serious questions.

Like: instead of encouraging states to fight a zero-sum battle over corporate headquarters, how do we make our country more competitive, and more friendly to business?

Instead of inhibiting interstate commerce and the free flow of people between states, why don't we make it easier for those who choose to relocate from state to state?

Why don't we let the free market reign and ask organizations to locate themselves in the geographies that make the most sense for their businesses, vs. the state that offers the most generous tax breaks?

I know it's a radical opinion, but this state vs. state competition isn't doing our nation any good. Sure, the structure supports hundreds of thousands of horsecrap jobs to enforce policy differences and prop up a dated construct of government, but when do we ask ourselves what the fracking point of continuing to enable this waste-of-time layer of government is?

What's the difference between Wisconsin & Minnesota, or North Carolina and Georgia, or California and New York, for that matter?

I don't disagree with you. But federalism is a foundational philosophy of our country. States rights are a treasured feature of our governmental structures. It allows for experimentation, "laboratories of democracy."

Now, as you mention, it also does result in inefficiencies, as states battle eachother, while the nation as a whole loses to other more unified countries, such as China.

But that model is what got us here, and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

[RushmoreAcademy]

I thought I had heard it all about California until we met a couple while on a cruise of the BVIs who were very well-off arborists.  Apparently in California (or at least where they lived in the San Jose area) you have to get government permission to cut down a tree on your own property.  And said tree basically has to be completely dead or your request will be denied.  This couple made a crapload of money because they were among the few that know how to navigate the reams of bureaucratic paperwork.

This is not just a California thing.  I'm pretty sure it's an individual city or town's decision, because I know it exists in parts of other states where I have lived (but then was different for people 30 minutes away.)

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

If a state wants to offer a company money to move their location, and the state is paid back that sum many times over with new jobs, tax paying employees, etc, etc, how is that a bad thing?

A company should have the right to sell its wares and conduct commerce.  If one state is willing to make that company a lot more competitive in exchange for them moving to that state, it is in the best interests of that company to at least look at the option and decide if it is worth it.  Maybe at the end of the day it will cause the other state to finally do a gut check, look in the mirror and ask some serious questions. 

In Connecticut, our current governor has been doing this.  He got a large biotech company to move here as the state is building them a large headquarters and research building at the UConn Health Center.  He was criticized for spending the money to do it, but I think his quote was spot on (approximately) "I hate spending state money like this, but all states do this and if we want these jobs we have to do it also." 

He also has given state money to ESPN, NBC Sports (to move here), Alexion Pharmaceuticals, UTC Corporate and their companies Pratt & Whitney and Sikorsky and others with the promise they will grow jobs.  He was further criticized by some and he said "We have to shore up we have here, so they don't consider leaving."


And the interesting thing on the Toyota move, is they are closing shop in Kentucky, a state with a low cost reputation and were moving some of the jobs to Michigan.  It goes to show there is savings in consolidation and just because it's in a "lower-cost" area doesn't mean there is lower cost.  It matches the ROI calculations I used to do at an employer that looked at manufacturing in various locations.

[Spotcheck Billy]

How much of that infrastructure is built for duel purposes?  Almost all of it.  Plenty of corporations pay their own way...registration of a commercial vehicle here in California is through the roof.  California gas tax, highest in the nation...goes to pay for roads.  So on and so forth.  There are fees, permits, other taxes, etc, that corporations (and individuals) pay that go to offset infrastructure costs.

The vast majority of infrastructure is paid from Federal dollars raised strictly via the Federal gas tax. The states pay a fraction of the costs which is funded various ways depending on the state. Nearly all Interstate trucking companies play the game of registering their trucks/trailers in the cheapest state for registration fees. for instance in CA an 18 wheeler can cost $1673/year where some states are less that $200. The poor owner-operator picking up intermodal trailers at the Ports of LA-Long Beach wouldn't have that option the Schneiders and Hunt Trans. big boys do.

[warriorchick]

The vast majority of infrastructure is paid from Federal dollars raised strictly via the Federal gas tax. The states pay a fraction of the costs which is funded various ways depending on the state. Nearly all Interstate trucking companies play the game of registering their trucks/trailers in the cheapest state for registration fees. for instance in CA an 18 wheeler can cost $1673/year where some states are less that $200. The poor owner-operator picking up intermodal trailers at the Ports of LA-Long Beach wouldn't have that option the Schneiders and Hunt Trans. big boys do.

Your example is apparently a timely one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html

[Silkk the Shaka]

Yup, been almost 200 years.  1819 was the first time the Supreme Court confirmed that corporate rights existed in the same manner as a natural person.  It's essential to commerce as well.  Without it, contractual agreements couldn't be implemented between two corporate entities, or a persona and a corporation. 

Dartmouth vs Woodward.

Stems from the 14th amendment.  Folks don't like it, well....get a constitutional convention going and change the constitution.  It's there for a reason and has served the country well.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

[ChicosBailBonds]

The vast majority of infrastructure is paid from Federal dollars raised strictly via the Federal gas tax. The states pay a fraction of the costs which is funded various ways depending on the state. Nearly all Interstate trucking companies play the game of registering their trucks/trailers in the cheapest state for registration fees. for instance in CA an 18 wheeler can cost $1673/year where some states are less that $200. The poor owner-operator picking up intermodal trailers at the Ports of LA-Long Beach wouldn't have that option the Schneiders and Hunt Trans. big boys do.

I'm curious about your first sentence.  In the CBO report I'm reading, says 60% of infrastructure spending in the US are paid for by local and state authorities and that 90% of the maintenance costs for water and transportation nationally. Goes on to say "the Federal government provided the remaining funds as well as most of the funding for the air transportation system".

A few ideas:

Get rid of the 2009 Project Labor Agreement executive order...that drives up infrastructure costs and was solely done for political reasons and rewarding a constituency

Fix the Davis-Bacon laws of 1931 that ties the labor costs that drive costs upward of 22% where they should be. 

[mikekinsellaMVP]

I'm curious about your first sentence.  In the CBO report I'm reading, says 60% of infrastructure spending in the US are paid for by local and state authorities and that 90% of the maintenance costs for water and transportation nationally. Goes on to say "the Federal government provided the remaining funds as well as most of the funding for the air transportation system".

Yep.  The USDOT is projecting that the Highway Trust Fund will become insolvent on August 29.  That's why you've seen a lot of state DOTs scale back their capital programs in favor of maintenance programs.  That's also why we're seeing what warriorchick was nice enough to provide us with, along with other revenue proposals like congestion pricing and managed lanes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yep.  The USDOT is projecting that the Highway Trust Fund will become insolvent on August 29.  That's why you've seen a lot of state DOTs scale back their capital programs in favor of maintenance programs.  That's also why we're seeing what warriorchick was nice enough to provide us with, along with other revenue proposals like congestion pricing and managed lanes.

I get that part, what I don't understand is the comment that the Feds were paying for most of the infrastructure costs in this country.  The CBO report suggested otherwise.

Wait until GPS taxation kicks in.  You will be charged by the mile you drive, which of course will be more costly to the some segments of the poor and middle class because affordable housing is often outside the city where the jobs are.  It's going to be awesome. 

[brandx]

I get that part, what I don't understand is the comment that the Feds were paying for most of the infrastructure costs in this country.  The CBO report suggested otherwise.

Wait until GPS taxation kicks in.  You will be charged by the mile you drive, which of course will be more costly to the some segments of the poor and middle class because affordable housing is often outside the city where the jobs are.  It's going to be awesome. 

A la carte cable will happen long before measured mile costs.

[Coleman]

A la carte cable will happen long before measured mile costs.

+1

There would be public outrage over this. No way it would pass.

Plus, the gasoline tax is already a measured mile cost.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

A la carte cable will happen long before measured mile costs.

Not true.  As Chicos is alluding to, GPS tolling is already being tested in a few locations.

Wait until GPS taxation kicks in.  You will be charged by the mile you drive, which of course will be more costly to the some segments of the poor and middle class because affordable housing is often outside the city where the jobs are.  It's going to be awesome.  

Which is, of course, a radical departure from the existing tolling system.  Or the gas tax.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A la carte cable will happen long before measured mile costs.

Already approved in Oregon and California considering it as we speak

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/21/oregon-plan-to-replace-gas-tax-with-milage-tax-raised-concerns-on-privacy-cost/

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not true.  As Chicos is alluding to, GPS tolling is already being tested in a few locations.

Which is, of course, a radical departure from the existing tolling system.  Or the gas tax.

Yup, already approved by Oregon and Washington.  California certain to be next.  Florida considered it in 2012.  It will become the new standard...another chord tied to big gubmit.  They still have to work out some of the privacy, law enforcement issues, which I have no doubt will be abused beyond believe just like private medical records end up in the public out here from magic pixie dust. 

For places that don't have tolling systems, like here in California for the vast majority of roads, it's going to be awesome.  Already pay the highest gasoline taxes in the country, highest car registration fees, so on and so forth.  It is truly going to be awesome.  More and more people will get out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yup, already approved by Oregon and Washington.  California certain to be next.  Florida considered it in 2012.  It will become the new standard...another chord tied to big gubmit.  They still have to work out some of the privacy, law enforcement issues, which I have no doubt will be abused beyond believe just like private medical records end up in the public out here from magic pixie dust.  

For places that don't have tolling systems, like here in California for the vast majority of roads, it's going to be awesome.  Already pay the highest gasoline taxes in the country, highest car registration fees, so on and so forth.  It is truly going to be awesome.  More and more people will get out.

Right on time.....story about it yesterday here in California.  It's going to be AWESOME.   Keep feeding the monster that is always consuming.  And that is correct, our gas tax is $0.53 per gallon.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/California-Mileage-Tax-Would-Charge-Drivers-Based-on-Distance-Driven-258170311.html

[StillAWarrior]

More and more people will get out.

My brother is moving from San Diego in about a month.  I find his choice -- Washington -- a little curious, but he's had enough of SoCal.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My brother is moving from San Diego in about a month.  I find his choice -- Washington -- a little curious, but he's had enough of SoCal.

I know two families that went to Washington.  They're not crazy about the weather, but they love everything else.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Right on time.....story about it yesterday here in California.  It's going to be AWESOME.   Keep feeding the monster that is always consuming.  And that is correct, our gas tax is $0.53 per gallon.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/California-Mileage-Tax-Would-Charge-Drivers-Based-on-Distance-Driven-258170311.html

PLUS applicable Sales tax on top of that

[ChicosBailBonds]

   PLUS applicable Sales tax on top of that

Add the Federal gas tax to the state gas tax, and we're at $0.71 per gallon.  Have a 15 gallon tank, that's an extra $10.65 each time.  That's why so many folks that live close to the Arizona or Oregon border hop over there for gas.

[keefe]

Add the Federal gas tax to the state gas tax, and we're at $0.71 per gallon.  Have a 15 gallon tank, that's an extra $10.65 each time.  That's why so many folks that live close to the Arizona or Oregon border hop over there for gas.

In Singapore petrol is heavily taxed whereas in Malaysia it is subsidized by PERTAMINA, the state oil company. If you drive across the Causeway from SG to MY the Singapore Customs people check to make sure you have at least 3/4 of a tank. Anyone caught with less is fined heavily.

Police states...

[SoCalEagle]

Let's see live in Torrance / Manhattan Beach or Plano, Texas. That's a tough one. Think I will stick with CA.

[keefe]

Let's see live in Torrance / Manhattan Beach or Plano, Texas. That's a tough one. Think I will stick with CA.

SOCAL is a wasteland but NORCAL is superb. Far superior. LA defies definition but was best represented by Tarantino's Pulp Fiction. Now, SF is a world class city.