MU Layoffs thread

[mu-rara]

You have this backwards.  Most of the time Professors are in academia, because they are risk takers.  Big business generally goes after safe targets and one's job is fairly regimented and safe.  In academia one can and has to go after the high risk high reward targets.  That's why when industry has problems they go to academia for the consultants.  Business loves if they can steal an academic.  Tenure allows them to continue to take big risks that business is unwilling to take.  That is why a lot of the new big drugs stem from academic labs not big pharma.

Professors are seeking the relative safety of academia.  I agree, younger academics are letting it all hang out there, as are entry level workers in corporate America.  The end game for academics (a significant reason for going academic) is a job that they cannot be fired from.  No such thing in corporate America anymore.

[Benny B]

Professors are seeking the relative safety of academia.  I agree, younger academics are letting it all hang out there, as are entry level workers in corporate America.  The end game for academics (a significant reason for going academic) is a job that they cannot be fired from.  No such thing in corporate America anymore.

Business, science and engineering professors, yes... academia is relative safety.

But if you're a professor of art, language or ancient civilizations... academia is the only safe place you have in the world.

[keefe]

Business, science and engineering professors, yes... academia is relative safety.

But if you're a professor of art, language or ancient civilizations... academia is the only safe place you have in the world.

You might be surprised at the number of Humanities PhDs working in the corporate world and for Non-profits.

[warriorchick]

One subject that hasn't been addressed in the cost of a Marquette education is that of providing tuition benefits to nearly every employee and their families.  I don't know the hard and fast rules of what it takes to qualify, but I do know that nearly every full-time employee eventually does, from the Provost down to the maintenance staff.

According to the JS article, Marquette has 2,800 employees.  Nearly every Marquette employee I know has taken advantage of the free tuition benefit, either personally or for one or more family members.  I am sure it is often thought of as a no-cost benefit; just throwing an extra kid in a section doesn't incur any real expenses.  However, if you have thousands of employees taking advantage of it, at some point you have to start adding extra classes and ancillary services.  It would be interesting to know how much tuition is "written off" in a given semester because of the tuition benefit.

I understand that the tuition benefit is standard for teaching staff and higher-level administrators, and Marquette may need to keep that to stay competitive with other colleges.  But Marquette isn't competing with UW and Notre Dame for public safety officers and secretaries.  They are competing with other local employers outside of academia. 

One of my kids has a friend whose father is a maintenance worker at Marquette.  Both this kid and his brother were attending Marquette for free.  I think it's great that these kids have this opportunity, but if you get down to the cold hard facts, Marquette is, in terms of value, paying around $130K a year for a semi-skilled worker. 

[keefe]

One subject that hasn't been addressed in the cost of a Marquette education is that of providing tuition benefits to nearly every employee and their families.  I don't know the hard and fast rules of what it takes to qualify, but I do know that nearly every full-time employee eventually does, from the Provost down to the maintenance staff.

According to the JS article, Marquette has 2,800 employees.  Nearly every Marquette employee I know has taken advantage of the free tuition benefit, either personally or for one or more family members.  I am sure it is often thought of as a no-cost benefit; just throwing an extra kid in a section doesn't incur any real expenses.  However, if you have thousands of employees taking advantage of it, at some point you have to start adding extra classes and ancillary services.  It would be interesting to know how much tuition is "written off" in a given semester because of the tuition benefit.

I understand that the tuition benefit is standard for teaching staff and higher-level administrators, and Marquette may need to keep that to stay competitive with other colleges.  But Marquette isn't competing with UW and Notre Dame for public safety officers and secretaries.  They are competing with other local employers outside of academia. 

One of my kids has a friend whose father is a maintenance worker at Marquette.  Both this kid and his brother were attending Marquette for free.  I think it's great that these kids have this opportunity, but if you get down to the cold hard facts, Marquette is, in terms of value, paying around $130K a year for a semi-skilled worker. 

Chick

This may have changed but there is a reciprocal agreement in place allowing children of Jesuit University staff to enjoy that benefit within the consortium. I knew two guys at MU who had a parent employed at BC and Regis. So the potential burden to Marquette goes well beyond its 2,800 employees.

[warriorchick]

Chick

This may have changed but there is a reciprocal agreement in place allowing children of Jesuit University staff to enjoy that benefit within the consortium. I knew two guys at MU who had a parent employed at BC and Regis. So the potential burden to Marquette goes well beyond its 2,800 employees.

I was aware of that.  However, it is also my understanding that procedures in place to make sure that everything evens out at the end (i.e., Marquette doesn't have to accept 500 kids from other schools if they are only sending 25 out to other colleges).

[keefe]

I was aware of that.  However, it is also my understanding that procedures in place to make sure that everything evens out at the end (i.e., Marquette doesn't have to accept 500 kids from other schools if they are only sending 25 out to other colleges).

A Quota System?? Does DoJ know about this?

[Archies Bat]

According to the JS article, Marquette has 2,800 employees. 
 

This number floors me. That's roughly one employee required to educate four students.  It seems like a it should not take that many employees to educate the students, but I admittedly have no expereince.  I did some quick checking and DePaul's website says ~4000 FT and PT faculty and staff for 24,000 students at all campuses (roughly 6 employees per student).  I also looked at school districts for easy to locate data and found Green Bay was about 7 employees per student.

Is it just me, or is that # on the high end.  Thanks

[Coleman]

You might be surprised at the number of Humanities PhDs working in the corporate world and for Non-profits.

http://www.businessinsider.com/11-reasons-to-major-in-the-humanities-2013-6

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-innovations/why-you-should-quit-your-tech-job-and-study-the-humanities/2012/05/16/gIQAvibbUU_story.html

http://www.onlinemba.com/blog/8-famous-ceos-who-were-liberal-arts-majors/

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2013/06/20/humanities/

[warriorchick]

This number floors me. That's roughly one employee required to educate four students.  It seems like a it should not take that many employees to educate the students, but I admittedly have no expereince.  I did some quick checking and DePaul's website says ~4000 FT and PT faculty and staff for 24,000 students at all campuses (roughly 6 employees per student).  I also looked at school districts for easy to locate data and found Green Bay was about 7 employees per student.

Is it just me, or is that # on the high end.  Thanks

I think it is really hard to compare apples to apples on with the raw totals.  For example, the great majority of DePaul's students are commuters as opposed to Marquette's 10%.  It takes a lot of bodies to provide housing and student activities.  Are the PT and FT percentages similar?  FTEs would be a more comparable number.

[Coleman]

I think it is really hard to compare apples to apples on with the raw totals.  For example, the great majority of DePaul's students are commuters as opposed to Marquette's 10%.  It takes a lot of bodies to provide housing and student activities.  Are the PT and FT percentages similar?  FTEs would be a more comparable number.

Great points.

SLU might be a better comparison.

[Aughnanure]

Professors are seeking the relative safety of academia.  I agree, younger academics are letting it all hang out there, as are entry level workers in corporate America.  The end game for academics (a significant reason for going academic) is a job that they cannot be fired from.  No such thing in corporate America anymore.

Except for executives that get re hired at even higher paying rates no matter how badly they failed before. Once you're in, you're in.

[warriorchick]

Except for executives that get re hired at even higher paying rates no matter how badly they failed before. Once you're in, you're in.

I don't know who you are working for, but that is certainly not true any more at any of the companies I'm familiar with.  It's pretty brutal out there. 

[Archies Bat]

Are the PT and FT percentages similar?  FTEs would be a more comparable number.

In my 15 minutes of Googling the internets, I was lucky to find the data I did.  There was a little more data detail on faculty to student ratios, but the best I could find on the total number of employees was a gross number.  I did not try SLU, but did try Creighton, and my search did not find employee data there.

I wholeheartly agree that FTEs is better, but I only halfheartedly searched for data while nibbling my lunch.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I was aware of that.  However, it is also my understanding that procedures in place to make sure that everything evens out at the end (i.e., Marquette doesn't have to accept 500 kids from other schools if they are only sending 25 out to other colleges).

I was just speaking to an employee at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT on this subject.  She said it's like frequent flyer tickets where the quantity is capped.  She also said seniority matters as in the longer you were employed at a participating university the higher priority you get to take available slots.  She mentioned her daughter could go to Fairfield U. or Fordham among many others, for example.  She also mentioned she has a coworker who has a child that's a high school senior, was accepted to High Point University and it was the kid's first choice except the there were only two (2) slots available at High Point and they were already taken by someone with higher seniority.

[mu-rara]

I don't know who you are working for, but that is certainly not true any more at any of the companies I'm familiar with.  It's pretty brutal out there. 

Don't hate on his hate WC.

[Aughnanure]

I don't know who you are working for, but that is certainly not true any more at any of the companies I'm familiar with.  It's pretty brutal out there.  

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but what CEOs and chairmen ever have trouble getting another way too high a paying job (much less getting huge golden parachutes and stock bonuses even when they're essentially fired for being s###*y)?

I'm talking about real high execs here.

[Benny B]

You might be surprised at the number of Humanities PhDs working in the corporate world and for Non-profits.

No I wouldn't... because most of them have a graduate or terminal degree in something other than the humanities as well.

[keefe]

No I wouldn't... because most of them have a graduate or terminal degree in something other than the humanities as well.

No, I actually mean PhDs in the Humanities. In other parts of the world it is far more common for people in commerce and research to have terminal degrees in the Arts and Sciences. There are more PhDs than MBAs in Europe.

I asked a German colleague once about this and he related that Uni is free in northern Europe so many become long term students. I noticed that Scandinavians really don't get serious about career until they turn 30. They spend 12 years studying, travelling, and exploring.   

My wife followed a similar path. She had a terminal degree in Econ. While at Marquette I teased her for being an English major but I know she used her writing and analytical skills daily. She believed firmly in the value of her Liberal Arts education at Marquette.



An English Major

[Coleman]

I don't know who you are working for, but that is certainly not true any more at any of the companies I'm familiar with.  It's pretty brutal out there. 

Golden parachutes for executives are true at almost every major corporation in America.

It is brutal for the workers. On that you are correct.

[Coleman]

No I wouldn't... because most of them have a graduate or terminal degree in something other than the humanities as well.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of execs with plain old humanities majors.

[forgetful]

Professors are seeking the relative safety of academia.  I agree, younger academics are letting it all hang out there, as are entry level workers in corporate America.  The end game for academics (a significant reason for going academic) is a job that they cannot be fired from.  No such thing in corporate America anymore.

Its interesting that you state this.  I know a lot of people both in industry and academia.  If you ask many of those in industry why they didn't go the academic route the answers are usually.

1.  Lower Pay
2.  Higher Stress (in academia)
3.  Longer hours (in academia)
4.  Don't like teaching
5.  Poor job security (you are a temp for 6 years, once you get tenure you are good for life, but during that window you sacrificed probably the equivalent of 6-12 years pay (see number 1) if you worked in industry.  If you don't get tenure, you have a hard time finding a job some where else as many view you as a failure).

I know people who went the industry route because they couldn't get a job in academia, they don't want to leave, because the job is easy, low stress and pays fabulously in comparison to the academic route.

If you ask the academics why they went that route the answers are:

1.  They are their own boss, they decide what they do.
2.  Can tackle the grand problems and have more impact.
3.  They enjoy teaching.

[mu-rara]

Its interesting that you state this.  I know a lot of people both in industry and academia.  If you ask many of those in industry why they didn't go the academic route the answers are usually.

1.  Lower Pay
2.  Higher Stress (in academia)
3.  Longer hours (in academia)
4.  Don't like teaching
5.  Poor job security (you are a temp for 6 years, once you get tenure you are good for life, but during that window you sacrificed probably the equivalent of 6-12 years pay (see number 1) if you worked in industry.  If you don't get tenure, you have a hard time finding a job some where else as many view you as a failure).

I know people who went the industry route because they couldn't get a job in academia, they don't want to leave, because the job is easy, low stress and pays fabulously in comparison to the academic route.

If you ask the academics why they went that route the answers are:

1.  They are their own boss, they decide what they do.
2.  Can tackle the grand problems and have more impact.
3.  They enjoy teaching.

Not sure where you are going with this topic.  Are you making the case that academic life is tougher than working in corporate America?  Your reasons for working in corporate America are off.  1 and 4 are valid.  2, 3 and 5 are way off.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Golden parachutes for executives are true at almost every major corporation in America.

It is brutal for the workers. On that you are correct.

Supply and demand, pure and simple.  If you have the skills, chops, etc to be an executive, you're going to get rewarded.  Not many people have the ability, thus those that do are going to get those perks.

[Coleman]

Supply and demand, pure and simple.  If you have the skills, chops, etc to be an executive, you're going to get rewarded.  Not many people have the ability, thus those that do are going to get those perks.

That's not my point, I was responding to warriorchick who said no such perks existed