IU natives are restless

[Lennys Tap]

So you're holding MU and their 7th rated recruiting class to the same standard...........

In the rankings I saw, Marquette was actually #10, but whatever.

To answer your question. If, like Indiana, Marquette has:

1.Back to back top 6 recruiting classes with multiple McDonald's All Americans
2.All the recruits arrive on campus and stay
3.All the recruits are healthy

And if  those circumstances for Marquette, like Indiana yield:

1. A 4-7 conference record.

Yes, I will hold Marquette to the same standard. Like IU fans, I will be very disappointed.

[mu-rara]

glad you're back bro.  without you, ners was running this joint.  lmfao.

Gotta have a beer with you ZFB.  Great line.

[madtownwarrior]

interesting IU discussion over on the other board - looks like Dodds still defending tanned one...imagine that...

[NavinRJohnson]

He'll most assuredly survive through next year at least...losing 2 of top 3 guys (Vonleh and Sheehey) along with Fischer, and now likely the drunk driving guy, which isn't a huge hit, will buy him another year of having to rebuild, and he will be afforded that opportunity because of how much they are losing. The problem I suppose is they are losing top guys off a team that isn't particularly good.

Where he could ultimately be in trouble is that Indiana is supposed to be up there with Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas...they simply haven't been. Even in their best year in forever they only reached the Elite 8 (or was is Sweet 16? I don't recall). So in 7 years, its shaping up that they will have had one pretty good year, and 6 years of rebuilding combined. That isn't very good.

In the last 6 years, Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky have all won a national Championship and been to a FF. BTW so has Louisville. MSU has been to 2 FFs, so has UConn, and Duke has been to one. My point? Of course you are going to have down years when you lose a lot - see Kentucky. Of course some of those teams haven't really had down years at all. The difference seems to be that when down years for the elite programs happen, they have largely enjoyed big time success. In IU's case they are looking at a down year, and very possibly a second following somewhat modest success. They won the Big 10 and obviously had a very good team, but simply not reaching the level of success that is their standard. One can argue looking at the teams above if those standards are appropriate, but appropriate or not, they exist.

Of course the good news is that in college ball, you are always one big time player away from changing your fortunes. Don't know if he will get that big time player any time soon, but to a outsider like me, at themoment, the trajectory doesn't exactly appear to be one of maintaining greatness. Next 18 months or so may tell the tale. 

[LAZER]

He'll most assuredly survive through next year at least...losing 2 of top 3 guys (Vonleh and Sheehey) along with Fischer, and now likely the drunk driving guy, which isn't a huge hit, will buy him another year of having to rebuild, and he will be afforded that opportunity because of how much they are losing. The problem I suppose is they are losing top guys off a team that isn't particularly good.

Where he could ultimately be in trouble is that Indiana is supposed to be up there with Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas...they simply haven't been. Even in their best year in forever they only reached the Elite 8 (or was is Sweet 16? I don't recall). So in 7 years, its shaping up that they will have had one pretty good year, and 6 years of rebuilding combined. That isn't very good.

In the last 6 years, Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky have all won a national Championship and been to a FF. BTW so has Louisville. MSU has been to 2 FFs, so has UConn, and Duke has been to one. My point? Of course you are going to have down years when you lose a lot - see Kentucky. Of course some of those teams haven't really had down years at all. The difference seems to be that when down years for the elite programs happen, they have largely enjoyed big time success. In IU's case they are looking at a down year, and very possibly a second following somewhat modest success. They won the Big 10 and obviously had a very good team, but simply not reaching the level of success that is their standard. One can argue looking at the teams above if those standards are appropriate, but appropriate or not, they exist.

Of course the good news is that in college ball, you are always one big time player away from changing your fortunes. Don't know if he will get that big time player any time soon, but to a outsider like me, at themoment, the trajectory doesn't exactly appear to be one of maintaining greatness. Next 18 months or so may tell the tale. 

IU hasn't kept pace with the Elite programs for the last 20 years.

[NavinRJohnson]

IU hasn't kept pace with the Elite programs for the last 20 years.

No, but their 5 year plan was supposed to change that. It's what Crean was hired to do.

[keefe]

No, but their 5 year plan was supposed to change that. It's what Crean was hired to do.

"It's not quite Indiana! It's not quite Indiana!"

[ChicosBailBonds]

In the rankings I saw, Marquette was actually #10, but whatever.

To answer your question. If, like Indiana, Marquette has:

1.Back to back top 6 recruiting classes with multiple McDonald's All Americans
2.All the recruits arrive on campus and stay
3.All the recruits are healthy

And if  those circumstances for Marquette, like Indiana yield:

1. A 4-7 conference record.

Yes, I will hold Marquette to the same standard. Like IU fans, I will be very disappointed.

When is MU going to play a Big Ten conference schedule?  Just curious

[ChicosBailBonds]

He'll most assuredly survive through next year at least...losing 2 of top 3 guys (Vonleh and Sheehey) along with Fischer, and now likely the drunk driving guy, which isn't a huge hit, will buy him another year of having to rebuild, and he will be afforded that opportunity because of how much they are losing. The problem I suppose is they are losing top guys off a team that isn't particularly good.

Where he could ultimately be in trouble is that Indiana is supposed to be up there with Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas...they simply haven't been. Even in their best year in forever they only reached the Elite 8 (or was is Sweet 16? I don't recall). So in 7 years, its shaping up that they will have had one pretty good year, and 6 years of rebuilding combined. That isn't very good.

In the last 6 years, Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky have all won a national Championship and been to a FF. BTW so has Louisville. MSU has been to 2 FFs, so has UConn, and Duke has been to one. My point? Of course you are going to have down years when you lose a lot - see Kentucky. Of course some of those teams haven't really had down years at all. The difference seems to be that when down years for the elite programs happen, they have largely enjoyed big time success. In IU's case they are looking at a down year, and very possibly a second following somewhat modest success. They won the Big 10 and obviously had a very good team, but simply not reaching the level of success that is their standard. One can argue looking at the teams above if those standards are appropriate, but appropriate or not, they exist.

Of course the good news is that in college ball, you are always one big time player away from changing your fortunes. Don't know if he will get that big time player any time soon, but to a outsider like me, at themoment, the trajectory doesn't exactly appear to be one of maintaining greatness. Next 18 months or so may tell the tale. 

IU hasn't been at the level of any of those teams for 20 years.  Where you start from, matters.  UNC, KU, UK, Duke have kept momentum going the last 2 decades.  IU couldn't get past the first weekend for most of Bob Knight's last ten years...and that was a long time ago.  Then Mike Davis, Sampson, NCAA violations, etc.

Fred Glass was pretty good on the radio this morning.  It's amazing how a coach can go from Big Ten COY and National COY 2 years ago to an UTTER FAILURE by some.  Kind of funny.  Then again, this is the same board that said he would be fired in year three, that Jay Wright needed to be fired (he's currently looking at a #1 seed), the same board that thinks KO walks on water and he's been a failure everywhere he has been sans MU (which was at our lowest point ever, could only go up).

[Lennys Tap]

When is MU going to play a Big Ten conference schedule?  Just curious

You mean the one that gives us the chance to lose to Northwestern and Penn State at home? Never.

[keefe]

IU hasn't been at the level of any of those teams for 20 years. 

Precisely the point, Jams. Tom Crean was hired to return IU basketball to Valhalla. A couple Sweet Sixteens followed up with an NIT is not what the taxpayers of Indiana had in mind for the significant investment they have made over six years.

[AlumKCof93]

To be fair, the past 2 years have been really good at IU.  For a team that was so far down, the 2011-2012 team was a great ride and while I expected them to crash and burn in the tournament, they played very well.

While last year was disappointing in the team didn't play well at all the last month despite two top 5 draft picks, its hard to consider last year a disappointing.

That said, its too early to ask when MU is going to play a Big 10 type schedule.  They haven't this year, but they've been playing a schedule every bit as good as the Big 10 since they joined the Big East.

[NavinRJohnson]

Precisely the point, Jams. Tom Crean was hired to return IU basketball to Valhalla. A couple Sweet Sixteens followed up with an NIT is not what the taxpayers of Indiana had in mind for the significant investment they have made over six years.

Correct. They didn't give the guy an $8Million buyout so they can perform at the level of Marquette and Wisconsin. For the amount of time and money invested, right or wrong, the expectation is Kanasas and Kentucky.

They had a five year plan that we've heard a lot about here, and it worked pretty well.  Unfortunately, it looks lie they didn't update that plan once the five years were up.

[Golden Avalanche]

Correct. They didn't give the guy an $8Million buyout so they can perform at the level of Marquette and Wisconsin. For the amount of time and money invested, right or wrong, the expectation is Kanasas and Kentucky.

They had a five year plan that we've heard a lot about here, and it worked pretty well.  Unfortunately, it looks lie they didn't update that plan once the five years were up.

If we're going to get into a conversation regarding the amount of time and money a University has invested in its basketball program relative to its accomplishments, Marquette is at the top of the list for not getting value for investment.
 
Update the plan?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny

Incidentally, want to make sure I understand your disappointment in proper context.

IU has to deal with a bunch of teams in their league each year landing top 20 recruiting classes.  MU doesn't.  Not even close.  Shouldn't we, based on your criteria you have used the last few days on how critical these rankings are, be expecting first place finishes EACH and EVERY year in our league?  Clearly we have the best talent based on these rankings.  Furthermore, if the rankings of everyone else in our league (sans maybe one or two) is nowhere close to us, why wouldn't we be at the top all the time?  I would be disappointed if we weren't, using your criteria.

Case in point, 2013 two other Big Ten teams with top 15 classes along with IU's.  In the Big East, MU and no one else.  In fact, you have to go down to the 30's to find a Big East team.  All told, 6 Big Ten teams in the top 40 classes, 2 Big East teams.

In 2012, five Big Ten teams just in the top 25.  Big East...two.

Etc, etc

You get the idea.  When you have Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois, IU, Purdue they are going to grab a lot of good talent.  Big East grabs its fair share, but MU has been the constant in the last few years for the Big East teams with no barely anyone else.  Shouldn't we, then, expect to finish on top?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Lenny

Incidentally, want to make sure I understand your disappointment in proper context.

IU has to deal with a bunch of teams in their league each year landing top 20 recruiting classes.  MU doesn't.  Not even close.  Shouldn't we, based on your criteria you have used the last few days on how critical these rankings are, be expecting first place finishes EACH and EVERY year in our league?  Clearly we have the best talent based on these rankings.  Furthermore, if the rankings of everyone else in our league (sans maybe one or two) is nowhere close to us, why wouldn't we be at the top all the time?  I would be disappointed if we weren't, using your criteria.

Case in point, 2013 two other Big Ten teams with top 15 classes along with IU's.  In the Big East, MU and no one else.  In fact, you have to go down to the 30's to find a Big East team.  All told, 6 Big Ten teams in the top 40 classes, 2 Big East teams.

In 2012, five Big Ten teams just in the top 25.  Big East...two.

Etc, etc

You get the idea.  When you have Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Illinois, IU, Purdue they are going to grab a lot of good talent.  Big East grabs its fair share, but MU has been the constant in the last few years for the Big East teams with no barely anyone else.  Shouldn't we, then, expect to finish on top?

Wasn't this thread about Indiana's fans and their displeasure with Crean? How does it turn into something about Marquette? I don't understand why you don't ignore these threads. Again, people don't like Crean and they never will.

It's like you're trying to sell us aluminum siding. WE DONT WANT IT!!

[keefe]

It's like you're trying to sell us aluminum siding. WE DONT WANT IT!!

Do they still build houses with aluminum siding?

[GOO]

Do they still build houses with aluminum siding?

Only if you want mold in your walls and siding that you have to paint.  A buddy has it on house that was built in the 80's.  Hail damage is another problem.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Hail damage is another problem.

Just ask Joanie

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[ChicosBailBonds]

No, but their 5 year plan was supposed to change that. It's what Crean was hired to do.

At the 5 year mark, they were ranked #1 in the country, one their first Big Ten title in 20+ years.  They lost four, 1000 point scorers...it happens.    They were picked 6th, we'll see where they land.  We were picked 1st....we'll see where we land.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You mean the one that gives us the chance to lose to Northwestern and Penn State at home? Never.

Good thing, since we're 0-2 against the league already this year

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wasn't this thread about Indiana's fans and their displeasure with Crean? How does it turn into something about Marquette? I don't understand why you don't ignore these threads. Again, people don't like Crean and they never will.

It's like you're trying to sell us aluminum siding. WE DONT WANT IT!!

Some people don't like Crean, and never will.....yup....that's why you have threads like this 6 years later.  Believe me, we all get it. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

To be fair, the past 2 years have been really good at IU.  For a team that was so far down, the 2011-2012 team was a great ride and while I expected them to crash and burn in the tournament, they played very well.

While last year was disappointing in the team didn't play well at all the last month despite two top 5 draft picks, its hard to consider last year a disappointing.

That said, its too early to ask when MU is going to play a Big 10 type schedule.  They haven't this year, but they've been playing a schedule every bit as good as the Big 10 since they joined the Big East.

Not THIS Big East, that was the point.  What would MU be in THIS Big Ten?  What would IU be in THIS Big East.  Thus, the comparisons are rather silly.

[Lennys Tap]

Good thing, since we're 0-2 against the league already this year

Yeah, but we're a hell of a lot better against UW than we were under the Bronze Beast. Look, we're much better off than we were under the previous regime and we've been much better than the previous regime's new team has been too. The Marquette community is overwhelmingly happy Crean has been replaced by Buzz. Why argue with the Marquette people who hate Crean? He gone, thank God. Go on one of your Indiana boards and argue with all the Hoosier fans who are on to him. Tons of them and the numbers are growing daily.