Derrick vs. Dawson ...in the other 23 games.

[River rat]

This post in no way, shape, or form is intended to be a slight against young john Dawson. i like everything he has been in his 8 months at Marquette. Emphasis on the 8 months.

This post is inteneded to call out the lunacy from many on this board, most especially Ners, who has ripped Derrick and stated ad nauseum that Dawson need to be the PG going forward.

I will be the first one to say that Derrick Wlson will not be on the Mt. Rushmore of MU PG's and in fact wouldnt even be on the Mt. Rushmore of MU pg's in the last 10-15 years. 

However, he is a junior, and while he may not have the upside of Mr. Dawson or the other Freshman the bottom line is Dawson is a Freshman.

Not matter how loud or no matter how many times Ners yells something, that doesnt make him correct.  Derrick Wilson in 23 of 24 games has been the best Pg on the floor for MU.

Last night MU had 3 turrnovers hwne Derrick left the game in the first half.  Mu was pounding SH.  John dawson came in and struggled, as Freshman are proneto do.  In fact our other freshman struggled last night too.  3 turnovers and 3 fouls later, Buzz had to do something, he went to Todd Mayo at PG , for the first time all year.  That was a disaster, then he tried Jamil, similar results.  The Half ends in a1 point game.  12 point lead gone! 3 Turnovers turned into 11!! 
Second HAlf Derrick plays the whole half and the entire team has 2 turnovers.  derrick has 0 for the game.  In the entire  27  minutes that derrick played Mu had 5 turnovers. In the time that Derrick sat out in the first half MU had 8 to 3 for SH.,, the defense was weaker and the lead was blown.  And I am not even touching on the perimeter defense that Derrick plays. 

Then last night NErs, posts Derricks stats and says something to the effect that they were mediocre.  What a joke.  The kids a Warrior, and for all things that he is not.  he is still by far our best option at the PG.  And for 23-24 games this year its not really even debatable.

[Dawson Rental]

One correction, there were 3 second half turnovers.  Still a superior number.

Ners is wedded to his position.  I don't see another thread changing that.

[MerrittsMustache]

One correction, there were 3 second half turnovers.  Still a superior number.

Ners is wedded to his position.  I don't see another thread changing that.

Derrick going for 20-10 a night from here on out isn't going to change that.

[jesmu84]

I would say if the mods locked a Ners' PG post, it might be a good idea to just let the attacking/defense of either player go.

[GooooMarquette]

Great post, River rat.

John Dawson will become a fine player at Marquette and I will be cheering for him every step of the way.  And he was awesome against Georgetown - I voted for him as SOTG, although the consensus ultimately gave it to STJr (both were deserving IMHO). 

But as you stated, Derrick has proven time and time again that he is the best PG MU has right now.  And unless Buzz starts tanking on this season like the Bucks (not gonna happen), Derrick will continue to start and get the majority of the minutes...and deservedly so.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Great post, River rat.

John Dawson will become a fine player at Marquette and I will be cheering for him every step of the way.  And he was awesome against Georgetown - I voted for him as SOTG, although the consensus ultimately gave it to STJr (both were deserving IMHO). 

But as you stated, Derrick has proven time and time again that he is the best PG MU has right now.  And unless Buzz starts tanking on this season like the Bucks (not gonna happen), Derrick will continue to start and get the majority of the minutes...and deservedly so.

I am 33 years old. In my lifetime of watching Marquette basketball Derrick Wilson is the worst pg I have seen. It is absolutely terrible watching him game after game.

[MerrittsMustache]

I am 33 years old. In my lifetime of watching Marquette basketball Derrick Wilson is the worst pg I have seen. It is absolutely terrible watching him game after game.

Apparently you missed the 04-05 season.

[tower912]

You keep saying that, both here and on the scout board.   Anthony Candelino comes to mind.   Niv Berkowitz.   Brandon Bell.   Joe Chapman.  Marcus Jackson.   I don't believe that Derrick is an all BE performer.   I have seen nothing beyond the G-town game to indicate he is not the best PG on this year's roster.   And I have advocated several different line up changes this year.    Starting 3 guards.   The end to Oxtule.   Starting Deonte or JJJ.   But there has not yet been a moment where I thought someone other than Derrick should be starting at the point.    

[River rat]

I am 33 years old. In my lifetime of watching Marquette basketball Derrick Wilson is the worst pg I have seen. It is absolutely terrible watching him game after game.

These are the posts that irritate me.  

Sure everyone on this board would like to have Travis Diener or Sam Worthen walk through that door.  But saying he is the worst is truly dense.  Same could be said about Thomas at Sg.  the point is they are the best we have and to argue that we need to play even lesser players becuase we are not estatic about the ones we have is lunacy!!


6 months ago Derrick was scheduled to be our 3rd string PG, VAnder left Duane got hurt.  What you gonna do?  1 year ago Jake was to be our 4th string 2g , TAylor and vander left, and Todd before a few weeks ago struggled. What you gonna do.  What have your 33 years taught you do do in Buzz's predicament??

Should he go sign 5 top 100 guards?  Well he did that!

[wardle2wade]

I am 33 years old. In my lifetime of watching Marquette basketball Derrick Wilson is the worst pg I have seen. It is absolutely terrible watching him game after game.

Where do Brian Barone and Brian Barone rank?  Also, we've been fortunate to have Cordell Henry, Dominic James, and Travis Diener which probably take up a lot of your MU memories.

Derrick knows his role (game manager), and it is what it is.  Duane Wilson was probably going to be the starting PG had he not go injured during camp.  If Derrick gives what he gave last night, as a MU fan, I'm more than glad to take that.

[tower912]

I hate to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, but Buzz is going to war with the team he has, not the team he wishes he had.   He is starting the best PG he has, not the one he thought he would have 10 months ago.  If Todd, Davante, and Jamil had brought it consistently every game up until now, this debate wouldn't be happening.    They are now coming closer to the goal of playing hard every possession on both ends.   And the team is playing better.    

[MUfan12]

I am 33 years old. In my lifetime of watching Marquette basketball Derrick Wilson is the worst pg I have seen. It is absolutely terrible watching him game after game.

That honor goes to Marcus Jackson.

I started following MU the year before KO took over. MU has had an extraordinary run of quality PG play, starting with Tony Miller. Hutch, Cordell, Travis, Dominic were all very good college PGs. Even Mo as a senior was above average, and Junior turned into a pretty good player as well.

Derrick is a serviceable PG, who is improving as the season goes on. Against most opponents, he's the best option this team at PG. I've had about enough the same people here railing on him, when there are other issues that have plagued this team even more.

[Dawson Rental]

Where do Brian Barone and Brian Barone rank?  

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that wherever they are ranked, they are tied.

[Dawson Rental]

These are the posts that irritate me.  

Sure everyone on this board would like to have Travis Diener or Sam Worthen walk through that door.  But saying he is the worst is truly dense.  Same could be said about Thomas at Sg.  the point is they are the best we have and to argue that we need to play even lesser players becuase we are not estatic about the ones we have is lunacy!!


6 months ago Derrick was scheduled to be our 3rd string PG, VAnder left Duane got hurt.  What you gonna do?  1 year ago Jake was to be our 4th string 2g , TAylor and vander left, and Todd before a few weeks ago struggled. What you gonna do.  What have your 33 years taught you do do in Buzz's predicament??

Should he go sign 5 top 100 guards?  Well he did that!

I had forgotten about the potential move of Vander to point guard.  When commentators bring up Vander's leaving early, they always talk about the impact of Marquette losing its 2G.  Moving to PG would have probably enhanced Vander's pro chances, and allowed Derrick to continue in his backup role.  I disagree that Duane would have supplanted Derrick as the backup, but I can't say it wouldn't have happened.

If Vander had stayed and moved to PG, who would have started at the 2G?  Jake would have transferred since he had graduated and MU wouldn't have had a schollie for him had Vander stayed.  Without Jake on the team, and with Duane injured, Vander probably would have been pushed back into the 2G role.  So, most likely we'd still being seeing Derrick starting at point guard.

[MarquetteDano]

Speaking of bad points, didn't Robb Logterman play point his frosh season before Miller came on board?  Or was Miller not ready yet?

I distinctly remember games where we had 31 turnovers, 25 turnovers, and consistently 20+ against any team who pressed us.

How does that even compare to our point situation now?  No understanding of history is the only way it could compare.

[Dawson Rental]

Speaking of bad points, didn't Robb Logterman play point his frosh season before Miller came on board?  Or was Miller not ready yet?

I distinctly remember games where we had 31 turnovers, 25 turnovers, and consistently 20+ against any team who pressed us.

How is that even compare to our point situation now?  No understanding of history is the only way it could compare.

Miller came aboard when Logterman was a sophomore, and IIRC Miller started from day one.

[NersEllenson]

Derrick going for 20-10 a night from here on out isn't going to change that.

Well we all know that will NEVER happen in his career...so no worries there.

I just love how 1 game of Dawson playing poorly, in extended minutes, all of sudden means it is clear cut Derrick is the best PG option for this team.  How many clunkers has Derrick played?  15?  Derrick ever made a careless turnover or two in a game?  Ahh..yes....many times...

Didn't see all you Derrick backers after the Georgetown game saying "It's clear Dawson should be the starting PG," which was also just 1 game. 

The issue I have simply is you guys are trying to polish a piece of coal into a diamond...and referring to how great of game it is when a PG getting 29 minutes scores 7, shoots 3-4 from the FT line (much to the shock of everyone), and has 5 assists  - largely due to Jamil draining 3's on trailer passes.

And as for the OP..and the 23 other games...I sure as hell would hope a guy averaging 29.7 minutes per game would put up better numbers than a guy averaging 10.  Sadly, Dawson has still tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made...and the defenses lack of respect for Derrick shooting is getting beyond comical as the picture I uploaded last night illustrated.

We didn't win last because of Derrick.  We won in spite of him...and Dawson for that matter.  Jamil was a monster, Davante good, and Mayo solid.  Derrick had 0 assists in the 2nd half in 20 minutes, FYI.  He made 2 layups essentially...and 3 of 4 FTs...WOW. 

[dddawson]

I like Derrick his game is diff from Dawson which doesn't make him a bad ball player..... I like that he believes in himself and does Derrick! .... Young Dawson will blossom and come along in this program guarantee you me ..... I like the fact that he's learning the system and that he's available for MARQUETTE

[Skatastrophy]

I'm with Ners on this one.

Locking his post just proves, once again, that the Mods are power-hungry egomaniacs.

[jesmu84]

Well we all know that will NEVER happen in his career...so no worries there.

I just love how 1 game of Dawson playing poorly, in extended minutes, all of sudden means it is clear cut Derrick is the best PG option for this team.  How many clunkers has Derrick played?  15?  Derrick ever made a careless turnover or two in a game?  Ahh..yes....many times...

Didn't see all you Derrick backers after the Georgetown game saying "It's clear Dawson should be the starting PG," which was also just 1 game. 

The issue I have simply is you guys are trying to polish a piece of coal into a diamond...and referring to how great of game it is when a PG getting 29 minutes scores 7, shoots 3-4 from the FT line (much to the shock of everyone), and has 5 assists  - largely due to Jamil draining 3's on trailer passes.

And as for the OP..and the 23 other games...I sure as hell would hope a guy averaging 29.7 minutes per game would put up better numbers than a guy averaging 10.  Sadly, Dawson has still tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made...and the defenses lack of respect for Derrick shooting is getting beyond comical as the picture I uploaded last night illustrated.

We didn't win last because of Derrick.  We won in spite of him...and Dawson for that matter.  Jamil was a monster, Davante good, and Mayo solid.  Derrick had 0 assists in the 2nd half in 20 minutes, FYI.  He made 2 layups essentially...and 3 of 4 FTs...WOW. 

Somehow 1 game of Dawson playing well, in extended minutes, was enough for you to say he should get the majority minutes though. Pot -->Kettle.

Dawson will be a good player in time.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Somehow 1 game of Dawson playing well, in extended minutes, was enough for you to say he should get the majority minutes though. Pot -->Kettle.

Dawson will be a good player in time.

Don't enable him

[jesmu84]

Don't enable him

I know I shouldn't. But it really bugs me when there are obvious misuses of logic in argument. It's one thing to be emotional or passionate in your argument. It's another to just be incorrect in your argument.

[mattyv1908]

Well we all know that will NEVER happen in his career...so no worries there.

I just love how 1 game of Dawson playing poorly, in extended minutes, all of sudden means it is clear cut Derrick is the best PG option for this team.  How many clunkers has Derrick played?  15?  Derrick ever made a careless turnover or two in a game?  Ahh..yes....many times...

Didn't see all you Derrick backers after the Georgetown game saying "It's clear Dawson should be the starting PG," which was also just 1 game.  

The issue I have simply is you guys are trying to polish a piece of coal into a diamond...and referring to how great of game it is when a PG getting 29 minutes scores 7, shoots 3-4 from the FT line (much to the shock of everyone), and has 5 assists  - largely due to Jamil draining 3's on trailer passes.

And as for the OP..and the 23 other games...I sure as hell would hope a guy averaging 29.7 minutes per game would put up better numbers than a guy averaging 10.  Sadly, Dawson has still tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made...and the defenses lack of respect for Derrick shooting is getting beyond comical as the picture I uploaded last night illustrated.

We didn't win last because of Derrick.  We won in spite of him...and Dawson for that matter.  Jamil was a monster, Davante good, and Mayo solid.  Derrick had 0 assists in the 2nd half in 20 minutes, FYI.  He made 2 layups essentially...and 3 of 4 FTs...WOW.  

Ners,  I share much of your opinions on the quality of our PG play throughout the year, but at this point you're either not watching the games or you're trolling.

It's a two sided coin.  Where you gain credibility is when people on this board choose to look at the inconsistencies of everyone other than Derrick Wilson.  Their argument essentially is that if everyone played well all the time Derrick Wilson's offensive liability wouldn't be discussed.  I believe that a starting point guard in a quality NCAA basketball conference from one of it's most consistently successful programs over the last 7-10 years should be an offensive contributor.  You have no arguments from me there.

Where you lose me is in your straw man you have so meticulously built in John Dawson.  Were we to believe you, Marquette would have a budding superstar PG who's not seeing the floor unjustly.  Replacing Wilson for Dawson in your mind equates to problem solved.  It's simply not the case for most objective followers of this year's team.

Derrick Wilson is not an ideal PG for Marquette this year, but given our lack of options he is our best option by default.  That's not a credit to him so to speak as simply the state of affairs of our back court this year.

[MerrittsMustache]

I know I shouldn't. But it really bugs me when there are obvious misuses of logic in argument. It's one thing to be emotional or passionate in your argument. It's another to just be incorrect in your argument.

That's the challenge! His points and "logic" are so easily refuted and illogical that it's tough to hold back. Nothing is going to change his mind though and he's going to keep repeating the same arguments over and over and over and over and over...which reminds me, did you know that Dawson played well against Georgetown and that Derrick Wilson doesn't shoot 3s?

[madtownwarrior]

Derrick ever going for 20-10 will never happen...

Derrick going for 20-10 a night from here on out isn't going to change that.