Was Buzz Talking About MUscoop tonight?

[Dawson Rental]

Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

Buzz stayed with Dawson so long because he decided to take his lumps in the first half and save Derrick for the second half by protecting him from getting a third foul.

[NersEllenson]

Buzz stayed with Dawson so long because he decided to take his lumps in the first half and save Derrick for the second half by protecting him from getting a third foul.

And the amazing thing is that for as awful as Dawson was....and with Derrick having benefitted from Jamil opening the game en fuego on 4 of 4 from 3pt line and 14 points in the first 5 minutes of the game...Dawson's +/- for the first half was just 4 points worse than Derricks...

[augoman]

Well .. not /directly/ behind the bench .. I'm in the corner with the rest of the not-quite-swell-enough.   

hey, I do sit several rows behind the bench and I wear jeans to most games.  not so 'swell', just 'mature'.

[Dawson Rental]

And the amazing thing is that for as awful as Dawson was....and with Derrick having benefitted from Jamil opening the game en fuego on 4 of 4 from 3pt line and 14 points in the first 5 minutes of the game...Dawson's +/- for the first half was just 4 points worse than Derricks...

I'm not arguing, I'm really just asking the question.  Where do you get your +\- stats?  They'd be great to peruse for a bunch of players when I get the time.

[We R Final Four]

Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

Dawson played extensively due to D Will's early foul trouble.

Isn't the hot hand somewhat 20-20 hindsight?
As you said, J Dawson wasn't good tonight. When did we realize this? After two min? After 4 min? After the first turnover? Did Burton have a cold hand? He took a shot-missed and was pulled. If you make the first shot, have you earned additional playing time?
Mayo certainly was not hot last night, but he was given the opportunity. If We played the hot hand, Mayo should have been sitting the 2nd half of Butler not scoring 17 Pts (?).
I think it's easy to say 'play the hot hand'. Several players are given a long leash to 'get hot' and some nights that never happens. I think This team's rotation(10-11 deep) based more on scouting reports and the potential the Buzz believes can be obtained that specific game--for better or worse.

[4everwarriors]

Correct.   I sit 6 rows behind MU's bench .. not a half of basketball goes by without more than one armchair quarterback yelling "Put in Dawson / Sit Derrick!"

Probably a perk for bein' a Scoop mod, hey?

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm not arguing, I'm really just asking the question.  Where do you get your +\- stats?  They'd be great to peruse for a bunch of players when I get the time.

Not sure about others, but I use Stat Sheet. You can get to the +/- by clicking on the game box scores and using the appropriately titled "Plus/Minus" tab, which is also available on the individual players' pages.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/

[Henry Sugar]

Here's my view of net points for the game

Wilson, Jamil   9.6
Gardner, Davante   7.7
Mayo, Todd    1.7
Wilson, Derrick   0.7
Johnson, JaJuan   -0.2
Burton, Deonte   -0.6
Anderson, Juan   -0.8
Otule, Chris    -0.9
Dawson, John   -2.6
Thomas, Jake   -4.0

[GGGG]

Where my criticism of buzz comes in is early season rotations. By conference time, you need to rely on 8 guys to play 85% of the time. He never established that. Had Burton & JJJ gotten early minutes over Thomas and Juan, they'd be ready right now. JJJ's defense was one of his strengths out of high school and he's a far superior player on the offensive end. Burton is a freak, and would have gained discipline on offensive end had his minutes been consistent and secure. Thomas and Juan shouldn't see the floor IMO, they aren't good enough.

You state this as if it were an absolute fact.  There is no guaranty that more minutes for JJJ and Deonte earlier on would have made them that much better now. 

[Earl Tatum]

I think Burton shoots out of control. Bad shots. V ery disappointing. When D-Wil plays bad we rip him or any other player.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I think Burton shoots out of control. Bad shots. V ery disappointing. When D-Wil plays bad we rip him or any other player.

That was the problem though. Outside of the past couple game nobody was stepping up to take shots. It was pass the ball around the perimeter and hope Davante got free. Deonte was the one person who wasnt afraid to shoot.

[slingkong]

How did he have 0 turnovers?  He dropped that Mayo pass late in the game; assuming possession rules give that to Mayo then?

Correct that is was scored to Mayo but incorrect in that it was Derrick's fault.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would imagine Buzz has gotten dozens of emails from dissatisfied fans. One of the hazards of making your email address public.

I hope Buzz is right and people stop questioning Derrick over Dawson, Derrick certainly proved it tonight. But I'm guessing from the number of posts from a certain stubborn scooper (that I thankfully can't see), it hasn't stopped yet.

[MU82]

Exactly. Derrick did his job - took care of the ball, got the ball to the hot hand, played solid D and ran the offense. I'll say it again Derrick did his job. Jamil, Gardner and Mayo are scorers, Jake is a shooter, Juan is an energy guy, Otule is a defender/rebounder, Burton is offense off the bench. Everyone has a job. Derrick did his very well last night.

Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

[77ncaachamps]

Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

Yep.

And if we are content with Derrick's role, than the rest of the team needs to pick up a HUGE scoring slack.

Jake's "shooting touch" as a "shooting" guard (vs SHU, 2-7 FG, 1-6 3PT, 1-2 FT), the rest of the starting five (decent 5-8 FG, horrible 0-0 FT over 20 minutes of play), and the bench's performance (4-10 FG) need to improve greatly.

[MU82]

Yep.

And if we are content with Derrick's role, than the rest of the team needs to pick up a HUGE scoring slack.

Jake's "shooting touch" as a "shooting" guard (vs SHU, 2-7 FG, 1-6 3PT, 1-2 FT), the rest of the starting five (decent 5-8 FG, horrible 0-0 FT over 20 minutes of play), and the bench's performance (4-10 FG) need to improve greatly.

Don't get me started on Jake. I'm trying to be positive today.

[mu_hilltopper]

Probably a perk for bein' a Scoop mod, hey?

A perk that pales in comparison to being a former Season Ticket Holder of the Game.

[GGGG]

Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

Yes. Teams that want to do better need better players. Derrick isn't alone in that regard.

[esotericmindguy]

Good start to the post, but it unraveled quickly. The frosh aren't the only ones who are inconsistent. Pretty much the whole team has been inconsistent, which is this team's primary issue. Last night Jamil looked like a lottery pick but in other games you don't even notice he's on the floor. Mayo's been all over the place. Gardner can look like DeJuan Blair or he can look completely disinterested. Jake has had 7 double-figure games and 7 games of 3 or fewer points. Juan plays really hard but can't seem to get it all together. One could make the argument that Derrick and Otule have been the team's most consistent players this season but neither is the type of player who can put the team on his back and carry everyone to a W. We're 24 games into the season and Buzz doesn't know who's going to show up on a given night. That's why he can't establish an 8-9 man rotation. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation.

I'd argue that had he formed a consistent rotation by conference play this team would be better off. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation. Right, but you talk like rotating 11 guys is working. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team. I believe Marquette would be better off with 8 guys playing consist minutes, in hopes they'll gel and come together by conference play. I'm seeing players forcing things because they know if they don't have the "hot hand" they're getting yanked. What has Juan done in 3 years to even warrant a minute of playing time? He gets 14 a game, this isn't middle school, you don't get to play for trying hard. Thomas??? Guy scored in double figures 7 out of 24 games and 3 or less 7 out of 24 games. Guy plays 28 minutes a game and is used 13% of possessions, basically he's invisible on the court...90% of DI 2 guards can shoot 35% from 3, given the looks he receives. What has he done to deserve a 19 minute increase over last year? Try hard in practice? Don't care. D Wilson plays a bigger role on Offense, in terms of % of possessions used. If MU has a PG that won't shoot then the 2G has to score to be successful in major CBB.

[esotericmindguy]

You state this as if it were an absolute fact.  There is no guaranty that more minutes for JJJ and Deonte earlier on would have made them that much better now. 

It's an opinion is all. Nothing is fact. Just like playing 11 guys 10 or more minutes won't factually make them better.

[tower912]

Buzz still hasn't formed a consistent rotation because he isn't yet gotten consistent contributions or effort.   He has flat out said that he doesn't know what he is going to get when he puts some players in.    And that he plays Jake and Derrick so much because he does know what he will get.  Playing defense to the scouting report, holding onto the ball.   If the entire team played defense to the scouting report and took care of the ball, and played hard every time out, then there would be a consistent rotation.    

[murara1994]

. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team.

umm...GW, Providence, GT.

[Spotcheck Billy]

A perk that pales in comparison to being a former Season Ticket Holder of the Game.

wow, you're older than I had thought

[mu03eng]

I'd argue that had he formed a consistent rotation by conference play this team would be better off. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation. Right, but you talk like rotating 11 guys is working. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team. I believe Marquette would be better off with 8 guys playing consist minutes, in hopes they'll gel and come together by conference play. I'm seeing players forcing things because they know if they don't have the "hot hand" they're getting yanked. What has Juan done in 3 years to even warrant a minute of playing time? He gets 14 a game, this isn't middle school, you don't get to play for trying hard. Thomas??? Guy scored in double figures 7 out of 24 games and 3 or less 7 out of 24 games. Guy plays 28 minutes a game and is used 13% of possessions, basically he's invisible on the court...90% of DI 2 guards can shoot 35% from 3, given the looks he receives. What has he done to deserve a 19 minute increase over last year? Try hard in practice? Don't care. D Wilson plays a bigger role on Offense, in terms of % of possessions used. If MU has a PG that won't shoot then the 2G has to score to be successful in major CBB.

Juan Anderson played very good defense on Edwin last night, that is the value he brings.  He shut Edwin down early in the game allowing MU to build up a significant lead.  Just because you don't see the value doesn't mean there isn't value.

I'm becoming convinced of two things, MU is an average team which is outside of the norm for MU and that the style of basketball we play is the most effective but also ugly.  This may seem like a "no kidding" statement but you are arguing about a consistent rotation, I suspect, because that's what your basketball experience and desire(pleases the eye) tell you to want.  However, that isn't what is best or ends in the best results.  

You are watching the sausage made and it's incongruous to how you thought sausage should be made so you don't like the sausage.  I get it, don't have an answer to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't the best way to make sausage for this batch.

[mu_hilltopper]

wow, you're older than I had thought

Unlikely .. '91 grad here.  They pulled my name out of the hat.