which conference is better?

[mu03eng]

Yeah I agree with you on BYU.  They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.

And Colorado State sounds good.  Big public university in a growing metropolitan area.  However their football attendance is terrible.  Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game.   That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5.  And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.

Anything in Denver area are a bunch of transplants.  Attendance would go up because B12 alum in Denver would buy up tickets.
 

[mu03eng]

I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting.  Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not.  It was from an apparent UC blog.

Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).


http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/

This has Denver written all over it

[GGGG]

I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting.  Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not.  It was from an apparent UC blog.

Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).


http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/

20% increase over 16 million *households?*  Good luck getting 3.2M additional.  The Denver metro area has about 1M households.  Ditto Tampa / St. Pete.  Boise, Albuquerque and Salt Lake aren't close to being big enough.

You are left picking over secondary schools in markets like Los Angeles and San Francisco.

If this is accurate, the B12 is either not expanding anytime soon, or members are going to have to take less money for the sake of a championship game.

[MUMountin]

Yeah I agree with you on BYU.  They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.

And Colorado State sounds good.  Big public university in a growing metropolitan area.  However their football attendance is terrible.  Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game.   That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5.  And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.

CSU is currently working on plans for a new stadium, which would bump capacity to 40,000.  Now, actually getting butts in the seats would be another thing--Fort Collins is more than an hour away from Denver, so gotta figure out how to draw people up from there.  As mu03eng mentioned, there are a lot of Big 12 transplants here, who would travel better than many of the MWC fanbases.  But generally, college sports are not very popular in Colorado--too many other competing interests for people's time and money, and since most are transplants, they tend to cheer for their home state teams rather than the Buffs, Rams, Pioneers, etc.  Can CSU regularly draw more than 30K for a game?  Maybe, but they need to keep working on improving the on-field product--we'll see if Bobo can sustain the success that McElwain started.

[GGGG]

And speaking of BYU, here is an article that is pretty interesting on the current status of the program in light of yesterday's brawl.

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/1982115-155/monson-after-brawl-byu-football-hardly?fullpage=1

[MUMountin]

20% increase over 16 million *households?*  Good luck getting 3.2M additional.  The Denver metro area has about 1M households.  Ditto Tampa / St. Pete.  Boise, Albuquerque and Salt Lake aren't close to being big enough.

You are left picking over secondary schools in markets like Los Angeles and San Francisco.

If this is accurate, the B12 is either not expanding anytime soon, or members are going to have to take less money for the sake of a championship game.

Denver-Aurora CSA has 3.2 million people, which doesn't include the 300K in Fort Collins and ~100K in Cheyenne.

All told, the Front Range (throwing in Colorado Springs and Pueblo) has around 4.5M in it, and is one of the fastest growing regions in the country.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

There was another report yesterday, where the Big 12 Commissioner said in a radio interview that if they do expand it would be "east" rather than "west".

UConn gets you 968,450 in Hartford-New Haven plus whatever percentage Fairfield County occupies in the New York City market (which is probably about the same figure as Hartford-New Haven number).

[GGGG]

Denver-Aurora CSA has 3.2 million people, which doesn't include the 300K in Fort Collins and ~100K in Cheyenne.

All told, the Front Range (throwing in Colorado Springs and Pueblo) has around 4.5M in it, and is one of the fastest growing regions in the country.

No doubt.  But I am quoting the article that says "households."  The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.

http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html

If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.

[MUMountin]

No doubt.  But I am quoting the article that says "households."  The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.

http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html

If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.

Ahhh--fair point.  My mind slipped past the "household" part to the numbers themselves.

[The Equalizer]

No doubt.  But I am quoting the article that says "households."  The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.

http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html

If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.

Your chart is based on the 2000 census--That might be fine if you're in a slow-growth market like Detroit.   Denver has been growing the past 15 years.

This link to Neilsen (2012) says 1.566 million.  Round it up to 1.6 if you like.
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

BTW, Colorado Springs/Pueblo listed separately, with 343,990

[GGGG]

Your chart is based on the 2000 census--That might be fine if you're in a slow-growth market like Detroit.   Denver has been growing the past 15 years.

This link to Neilsen (2012) says 1.566 million.  Round it up to 1.6 if you like.
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

BTW, Colorado Springs/Pueblo listed separately, with 343,990

OK, that makes a lot more sense using TV numbers.  So if you go Colorado State and South Florida, you have the 3.2 M households AND the new time zone.  (How much those households actually care about CSU and USF football is debatable, but I don't know how relevant.) 

[mu03eng]

OK, that makes a lot more sense using TV numbers.  So if you go Colorado State and South Florida, you have the 3.2 M households AND the new time zone.  (How much those households actually care about CSU and USF football is debatable, but I don't know how relevant.) 

I believe the attractiveness is the possibility that those amount of eyeballs are on the screen.  It's part of the sports bubble in TV right now....eyeballs and live content in combination are driving revenue.  So when the Big 12 looks to the next tv contract with Fox Sports or ESPN or whatever it's look how many games we have(content) and our viewer footprint(households).  There really isn't a quality aspect to that calculation.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I didn't know UMass was going independent for football... I really hope UConn does the same. If they do, we should not hesitate for a second to snap them up. Getting those two in the BEast and staying at 12 is my dream. Keeps the North East branding, and adds one massive fan base/brand, along with another large school & market.

That would give you:

UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
UMass

in the eastern seaboard, along with:

Marquette
Xavier
Creighton
Butler
DePaul

in the midwest.

Major upside, and the downside if they leave is that you go back to how the conference is currently situated. In my mind, there is absolutely no reason not to do it.

[GGGG]

UMass isn't going independent for football by choice.  They simply have no willing conference partners that would allow them to be a "football only" member.  (And the AAC isn't interested in having them as a full member.)

UConn isn't going to voluntarily go independent for football either.

[MuMark]

Mike Broeker ‏@mikebroeker  · 21m21 minutes ago 
R/N Records
B12 - 31-16/.660
ACC - 39-27/.591
@BIGEASTMBB 27-22/.551
B10 - 36-30/.545
P12 - 26-31./456
SEC - 25-36/.410
#winawayfromhome

[Coleman]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Big 12 add both Colorado State and UConn.

[MarquetteDano]

Mike Broeker ‏@mikebroeker  · 21m21 minutes ago 
R/N Records
B12 - 31-16/.660
ACC - 39-27/.591
@BIGEASTMBB 27-22/.551
B10 - 36-30/.545
P12 - 26-31./456
SEC - 25-36/.410
#winawayfromhome

Noticed also Big East has the highest average of games played away-neutral per team at 4.9.  Next closest is Big 12 with 4.7

[MuMark]

@mikebroeker: Rec. vs. RPI T100
@BIGEASTMBB 32-20/.615
B12: 27-18/.600
ACC: 32-28/.533
P12: 21-26/.447
SEC: 28-30/.483
B10: 24-35/.407
#resumebuilding

[MUFlutieEffect]

I didn't know UMass was going independent for football... I really hope UConn does the same. If they do, we should not hesitate for a second to snap them up. Getting those two in the BEast and staying at 12 is my dream. Keeps the North East branding, and adds one massive fan base/brand, along with another large school & market.

That would give you:

UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
UMass

in the eastern seaboard, along with:

Marquette
Xavier
Creighton
Butler
DePaul

in the midwest.

Major upside, and the downside if they leave is that you go back to how the conference is currently situated. In my mind, there is absolutely no reason not to do it.

Adding big public schools like UConn and UMass would be troubling for so many reasons - not the least of which being that they would always be looking elsewhere.  Can't imagine ever feeling comfortable that schools like those would ever be truly dedicated to a basketball-only conference full of small Catholic schools.

[muwarrior69]

Te only hope for UCONN is the ACC. That is only going to happen if the SEC and/or the B1G poach more of their teams. Don't see that happening anytime soon.

[MarquetteDano]

@mikebroeker: Rec. vs. RPI T100
@BIGEASTMBB 32-20/.615
B12: 27-18/.600
ACC: 32-28/.533
P12: 21-26/.447
SEC: 28-30/.483
B10: 24-35/.407
#resumebuilding

And again, the Big East has played the largest number of the RPI Top 100 per team at 5.2.  Next closest is Big 12 with 4.5

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

*Important Disclaimer* This is a crazy idea that would never work in the current college landscape. I am not saying this will ever happen. Just pitching a cool idea *end disclaimer*

What would people think about a merger with the ACC? Create a 3 division superconference? Each division member would play a home and home against every other division member and then two games against members of other divisions.

I'm thinking something like:

Northeast:
Boston College
Providence
UConn
Syracuse
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Southeast:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
VCU

Midwest:
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
Notre Dame
Louisville
Butler
Xavier
Pittsburgh
Villanova

It would be the ultimate basketball conference. It would also capitalize on some of the biggest rivalries in sports. Duke/UNC, CUSE/GTWN, BC/UCONN, MU/ND, etc. I realize all the barriers, but what a cool idea

[Silkk the Shaka]

Adding big public schools like UConn and UMass would be troubling for so many reasons - not the least of which being that they would always be looking elsewhere.  Can't imagine ever feeling comfortable that schools like those would ever be truly dedicated to a basketball-only conference full of small Catholic schools.

That doesn't matter to me. If they leave, we just go back to the current ten team status quo. NBD. But while they're here, it makes the conference better. I know this will likely not happen. I just wish it would.

[GGGG]

That doesn't matter to me. If they leave, we just go back to the current ten team status quo. NBD. But while they're here, it makes the conference better. I know this will likely not happen. I just wish it would.

If there is one thing that the basketball members learned, it's that in a conference with split loyalties, football will win out.  It is not in the best interest of the conference to sacrifice long term stability simply to get "better" in the short-term. 

The BE has a nice television contract and a pretty happy and committed membership.  Why mess with that?  If UConn or UMass dropped their football down to FCS, and agreed to keep it there for at least ten years, I would be fine with offering them membership.  But as long as they have FBS football, both programs will be looking for better opportunities.  That isn't in the best interests of the BE.

[GooooMarquette]

*Important Disclaimer* This is a crazy idea that would never work in the current college landscape. I am not saying this will ever happen. Just pitching a cool idea *end disclaimer*

What would people think about a merger with the ACC? Create a 3 division superconference? Each division member would play a home and home against every other division member and then two games against members of other divisions.

I'm thinking something like:

Northeast:
Boston College
Providence
UConn
Syracuse
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Southeast:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
VCU

Midwest:
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
Notre Dame
Louisville
Butler
Xavier
Pittsburgh
Villanova

It would be the ultimate basketball conference. It would also capitalize on some of the biggest rivalries in sports. Duke/UNC, CUSE/GTWN, BC/UCONN, MU/ND, etc. I realize all the barriers, but what a cool idea

UVa and Va Tech in the "Northeast" and Nova in the "Midwest?"  If the idea ever got wings (and I don't see it getting any), I suspect Nova would be in the Northeast with GTown, Cuse, St. John's, etc.  The closest school to the "Midwest" would be - gasp - Va Tech.