MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Dreadman24 on February 10, 2014, 11:49:34 AM
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong!
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Yes you are wrong. RPI-Big East #4, AAC #8.
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Way off. Half of the AAC are relative cupcakes (Rutgers, UCF, USF, Houston, and Temple) which makes it easy to rack up wins.
Nine of the ten Big East's teams are Top-100 in kenpom. Even Depaul's kenpom (145) is better than each of those 5 cupcakes (all are 160 and higher).
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong!
This post is implying/suggesting that we could have been part of the AAC and elected not too. The AAC was never, ever, an option for a non-football school like MU. All the non-football schools did the best they could with the NBE. So, what's the point?
Why not compare the NBE to the PAC-12, that is just as relevant as comparing it to the AAC.
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What are their numbers without Louisville?
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What are their numbers without Louisville?
Remember Louisville goes to the ACC next year.
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Yes you are wrong. RPI-Big East #4, AAC #8.
Are you saying that Dreadman24 was wrong then, wrong now, or pretty much always wrong? I'll go with the last option.
It's a good thing for Dreadman24 to change his mind, that way he's got a shot to be correct at some point.
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Just like I was wrong about Vander declaring, JJJ committing, us being overrated before the season..should I go on??
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Boy was I wrong.
For starting this stupid thread? I agree.
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Just like I was wrong about Vander declaring, JJJ committing, us being overrated before the season..should I go on??
Yeah, please go on.....with all of your expert predictions. Just like Vander is getting drafted and Buzz is going to SMU.
Haha you guys seem so shocked and upset. I told all of you MONTHS ago that he was entering the draft. That's the only reason JJJ signed!! And for all you Vander Blue haters he will get drafted and have a career in the NBA! It's all about potential and Vander has tons of it at only 20 YEARS OLD. That's what he has going for him and it mean a lot to NBA scouts. Good move Vander!
I think we all are being nieve to the fact that Buzz is taking SMU serious:/
I hate to say it but i think hes gone
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Sans Louisville, AAC is nowhere close to the Big East
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Yeah, please go on.....with all of your expert predictions. Just like Vander is getting drafted and Buzz is going to SMU.
Let us all not forget he also said JJJ told Buzz in January (may have been December) that he's transferring.
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Stop feeding the troll. Just starve him out and let him die.
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If this is the conference we are comparing new BE to we are in trouble long term. The new BE is less than impressive to me now and I do not have high hopes for Butler and Creighton long term. It was best option we had, but not a great selling tool to recruits IMO.
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If this is the conference we are comparing new BE to we are in trouble long term. The new BE is less than impressive to me now and I do not have high hopes for Butler and Creighton long term. It was best option we had, but not a great selling tool to recruits IMO.
What exactly were you expecting? Because honestly I think the BE has pretty much met my expectations for this year...Nova and X have exceeded...MU and Georgetown have been disappointing, but there are a lot of good programs.
And as for the future, the BE has five programs ranked in Scout's top 25 team rankings for 2014. That's more than any conference but the ACC who has six. (And since the ACC has 17 teams, that is a much lower percentage than the BE with 10.)
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Sultan,
I got exactly what I expected unfortunately. I was the one guy on here not giddy about the new conference and less excited moving forward with it. I see Butler and Creighton taking major steps backwards next year and other than St. John's see little in remaining group to upgrade the conference.
Again, if comparing ourselves to another average conference is our benchmark we are in trouble.
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Sultan,
I got exactly what I expected unfortunately. I was the one guy on here not giddy about the new conference and less excited moving forward with it. I see Butler and Creighton taking major steps backwards next year and other than St. John's see little in remaining group to upgrade the conference.
Again, if comparing ourselves to another average conference is our benchmark we are in trouble.
The only person comparing us to the AAC is Dreadman. That should tell you something.
But Xavier, Providence and Seton Hall look like they are improving. I mean Seton Hall signed the #2 ranked prospect in the country.
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What exactly were you expecting? Because honestly I think the BE has pretty much met my expectations for this year...Nova and X have exceeded...MU and Georgetown have been disappointing, but there are a lot of good programs.
Right now the strength of the NBE is its bottom teams are much better than the bottom teams of any other conference.
NBE teams do not get an "off night" like other conferences.
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong!
Not in any objective fashion.
RPI, Big East easily outpaces AAC (4th vs 8th)
Sagarin USA Today, Big East easily ahead of AAC (4th vs 8th)
Warren Nolan, Big East easily ahead of AAC (3rd vs 7th)
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AAC has 5 team in the top 25. They are a lock to have 5 teams in the tournament:/
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I guess it depends what you're looking for in a conference. Would you rather have RPI ranks:
14, 28, 30, 33 (leaving), 39, 135 (coming), 151, 175, 178, 194 (leaving), 200 (coming), 218 (coming), 219
or
3, 13, 37, 49, 57, 63, 89, 117, 119, 120
The AAC is on pace to have 5 teams make it because the bottom 5 have little to no chance of beating the top 5 any night. Next year it will be the top 4 teams beating up on the bottom 7. I'll take the Big East over the American any day.
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I guess it depends what you're looking for in a conference. Would you rather have RPI ranks:
14, 28, 30, 33 (leaving), 39, 135 (coming), 151, 175, 178, 194 (leaving), 200 (coming), 218 (coming), 219
or
3, 13, 37, 49, 57, 63, 89, 117, 119, 120
The AAC is on pace to have 5 teams make it because the bottom 5 have little to no chance of beating the top 5 any night. Next year it will be the top 4 teams beating up on the bottom 7. I'll take the Big East over the American any day.
you put big east top 5 up against aac top 5. AAC will win at least 3 out of 5 games
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you put big east top 5 up against aac top 5. AAC will win at least 3 out of 5 games
I actually doubt that. Nova and Creighton would take their top 2. And I don't think UConn or Memphis are better than X, St. Johns or Prov. I'd say it would favor the Big East by a 4-1 or 3-2 margin.
But as said before, the AAC is ridiculously top heavy. The entire bottom half of the conference is a joke. And after Louisville leaves, the top won't be as good as the Big East either.
The conference RPI speaks for itself. They are 8th. They aren't even as good as the Atlantic 10, and are closer to being on par with the WCC or Mountain West than the Big East.
The only thing the AAC will have going for it after this year is UConn, Memphis and Cincy. These are the only 3 teams that will ever compete for the conference and generally the only 3 that will get NCAA bids. After that the rest of the conference is essentially a mid-tier mid-major, on par with CUSA or the Horizon. The ceiling for the AAC is a 3 bid league, while the Big East will have the potential to have 5 bid seasons quite often.
In short, you are wrong.
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the top of the AAC is easily better than the top of this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong! They could hypothetically win 3 of 5 games if you matched up only the top teams! (But maybe only this year)
Fixed. Lock the thread. No need to discuss this anymore.
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AAC has 5 team in the top 25. They are a lock to have 5 teams in the tournament:/
Cincy, L'ville, Memphis, SMU and UConn.
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AAC has 5 team in the top 25. They are a lock to have 5 teams in the tournament:/
Correct, though 3 of them are ranked in the 20's. The bottom of that conference is not that strong. You said which conference is better, not which conference has the most teams to potentially go to the tournament.
A conference is more than just the good teams, its the entire conference. A lot of teams getting fat in that conference which is how the AP poll works. Does anyone really think San Diego State is a top 5 team? Please. No different than Gonzaga last year, but if you keep on winning in the human polls they don't seem to care who you play (or they forget), thus you keep climbing on up the ladder.
Just to give you an example
Top 5 AAC teams have a 45 or better RPI expectation for end of year. The next five teams START at 173 RPI and finish at 214. Talk about the haves and have nots.
The Big East in comparison. Only three teams in the top 45, but 7 teams in the top 100. The WORST team in the Big East comes in at 146, which would be 6th in the AAC.
Top to bottom, absolutely no comparison.
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I actually doubt that. Nova and Creighton would take their top 2. And I don't think UConn or Memphis are better than X, St. Johns or Prov. I'd say it would favor the Big East by a 4-1 or 3-2 margin.
But as said before, the AAC is ridiculously top heavy. The entire bottom half of the conference is a joke. And after Louisville leaves, the top won't be as good as the Big East either.
The conference RPI speaks for itself. They are 8th. They aren't even as good as the Atlantic 10, and are closer to being on par with the WCC or Mountain West than the Big East.
The only thing the AAC will have going for it after this year is UConn, Memphis and Cincy. These are the only 3 teams that will ever compete for the conference and generally the only 3 that will get NCAA bids. After that the rest of the conference is essentially a mid-tier mid-major, on par with CUSA or the Horizon. The ceiling for the AAC is a 3 bid league, while the Big East will have the potential to have 5 bid seasons quite often.
In short, you are wrong.
can we beat SMU? Doubt it. Can providence beat memphis? Highly doubt it. Xavier vs UCONN??? LOL c'mon son
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Im a big east fan by the way but I give credit when credit is due!
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SMU big wins have all been at home. They have done nothing on the road.
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SMU big wins have all been at home. They have done nothing on the road.
I miss SMU18
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you put big east top 5 up against aac top 5. AAC will win at least 3 out of 5 games
OK, so three of the top five of the AAC might beat three of the top five of the BE.
That doesn't mean the overall conference is better. It really is a dumb argument.
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Maybe Buzz shoulda gone to SMU?
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Maybe Buzz shoulda gone to SMU?
Maybe Buzz will go to SMU when Larry Brown leaves (which is inevitable) and comes to Marquette (why not; he has coached every other college, NBA, high school, girls middle school and JCC league team in the country).
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Let us all not forget he also said JJJ told Buzz in January (may have been December) that he's transferring.
he is. You'll see
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Correct, though 3 of them are ranked in the 20's. The bottom of that conference is not that strong. You said which conference is better, not which conference has the most teams to potentially go to the tournament.
A conference is more than just the good teams, its the entire conference. A lot of teams getting fat in that conference which is how the AP poll works. Does anyone really think San Diego State is a top 5 team? Please. No different than Gonzaga last year, but if you keep on winning in the human polls they don't seem to care who you play (or they forget), thus you keep climbing on up the ladder.
Just to give you an example
Top 5 AAC teams have a 45 or better RPI expectation for end of year. The next five teams START at 173 RPI and finish at 214. Talk about the haves and have nots.
The Big East in comparison. Only three teams in the top 45, but 7 teams in the top 100. The WORST team in the Big East comes in at 146, which would be 6th in the AAC.
Top to bottom, absolutely no comparison.
Now thats a rational analysis. I can respect that.
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he is. You'll see
Oh yeah? Is Buzz still going to SMU?
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As Chicos alluded to, the AAC is essentially two conferences: A 5 team power conference and a 5 team low tier mid major. And the strongest program in the first group is leaving. Give me the Big a East any day of the week.
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As Chicos alluded to, the AAC is essentially two conferences: A 5 team power conference and a 5 team low tier mid major. And the strongest program in the first group is leaving. Give me the Big a East any day of the week.
And don't forget that Rutgers is leaving too ... going to the B1G.
Once Louisville and Rutgers leave, would you rather be in Cincy/Uconn/USF (the three remaining former BE members) or MU. Not even a hard call.
FYI ... next year's AAC (look for them too add more)
UCF
Cincy
Uconn
Houston
Memphis
USF
SMU
Temple
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And don't forget that Rutgers is leaving too ... going to the B1G.
Once Louisville and Rutgers leave, would you rather be in Cincy/Uconn/USF (the three remaining former BE members) or MU. Not even a hard call.
FYI ... next year's AAC (look for them too add more)
UCF
Cincy
Uconn
Houston
Memphis
USF
SMU
Temple
They already are adding East Carolina, Tulane, and Tulsa for next year. I hope nobody would rather be in a conference with those 11 schools instead of the Big East.
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Now thats a rational analysis. I can respect that.
So how come we have to give you well thought out, researched, and rational arguements to get your respect; when all you do is spout off irrational nonsense but still expect respect?
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So how come we have to give you well thought out, researched, and rational arguements to get your respect; when all you do is spout off irrational nonsense but still expect respect?
#facts
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They already are adding East Carolina, Tulane, and Tulsa for next year. I hope nobody would rather be in a conference with those 11 schools instead of the Big East.
Plus, Navy for football in 2015.
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They already are adding East Carolina, Tulane, and Tulsa for next year. I hope nobody would rather be in a conference with those 11 schools instead of the Big East.
im talking this year. Not next year or the year after
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im talking this year. Not next year or the year after
Page 1 completely proved this was wrong too.
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im talking this year. Not next year or the year after
This year Chicos conclusively showed how the BEast is a better conference top to bottom. Projections on who's being added and removed from the AAC show that they have pretty much nowhere to go but down in terms of an overall conference RPI. There is pretty much no way you can cut the data that shows that as a whole the AAC is better than the BEast.
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This year Chicos conclusively showed how the BEast is a better conference top to bottom. Projections on who's being added and removed from the AAC show that they have pretty much nowhere to go but down in terms of an overall conference RPI. There is pretty much no way you can cut the data that shows that as a whole the AAC is better than the BEast.
While an MU fan, Chicos is also probably the furthest thing from what you would consider a homer.
/discussionover
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So how come we have to give you well thought out, researched, and rational arguements to get your respect; when all you do is spout off irrational nonsense but still expect respect?
You want his respect ?-(
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Obviously you guys feel some kind of way about the big east or else you wouldn't even post:\
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Obviously you guys feel some kind of way about the big east or else you wouldn't even post:\
We feel about the exact opposite way as you. Hence the posting.
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This year Chicos conclusively showed how the BEast is a better conference top to bottom. Projections on who's being added and removed from the AAC show that they have pretty much nowhere to go but down in terms of an overall conference RPI. There is pretty much no way you can cut the data that shows that as a whole the AAC is better than the BEast.
As someone said..."#facts"
Seriously, as I said earlier, Dreadman is simply a troll.
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I think this helps show it. Blue for Big East. Red for AAC. These are expected RPI finishes. I put a space in between clusters that show wide disparity from the others
5 Villanova
11 Creighton
18 Cincinnati
27 Louisville
30 Memphis
31 UCONN
40 SMU
45 Xavier
54 Georgetown
62 Providence
69 St. John's
82 Marquette
126 Butler
128 Seton Hall
145 DePaul
174 South Florida
183 Temple
189 Houston
193 Rutgers
214 UCF
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The bottom of the American is so bad that it's actually helping the top
The top half of the American (Cincinnati, Louisville, SMU, Memphis and UConn) is a combined 31-2 against the bottom half of the American (Houston, Rutgers, South Florida, Temple and UCF)
Simply put, that the divide between the top and bottom of the American is unusually wide, and that the bottom isn't good enough to threaten the top, which means the top isn't going to take many "bad" losses, and that's a good thing for the top. So think about that, on Selection Sunday, when you see 50 percent of the American in the Field of 68. They'll be there, in part, because they're good enough to do what's necessary. But they'll be aided, undeniably, by a bottom half of the league that's just bad enough to stay out of their way.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24442264/the-bottom-of-the-american-is-so-bad-that-its-actually-helping-the-top
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The bottom of the American is so bad that it's actually helping the top
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24442264/the-bottom-of-the-american-is-so-bad-that-its-actually-helping-the-top
Interestingly the New Haven Register just ran an article on this topic. The first two paragraphs say the same. (Excerpt is below.)
http://www.nhregister.com/sports/20140212/borges-huskies-again-feast-on-aacs-weak-links
Borges: Huskies again feast on AAC’s weak links
By David Borges, New Haven Register
Posted: 02/12/14, 10:35 PM EST |
HARTFORD >> So all that talk about the American Athletic Conference being better than anyone expected — including talk that came from yours truly, in this space, a day ago — well, it’s all true. Tough to overlook having five Top 25 teams in one 10-team conference.
The flip side, however, is the AAC’s dirty little secret: as good as its top five teams are, its bottom five are just as awful.
Look no further than UConn’s disturbingly easy whipping of South Florida on Wednesday night at the XL Center. The Huskies (19-5, 7-4 AAC) dominated so thoroughly – scoring the game’s first eight points, then using a 16-0 run midway through the first half to quickly turn it into a laugher – it was like going to a UConn men’s game and a UConn women’s game broke out.
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So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."
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So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."
You seem to be starting off grouchy. There are benefits to having better performing teams in a conferences lower tier. It lifts the conferences RPI, and the individual RPI's of the Individual schools. It also can help establish a reputation for the league as one that has mostly competitive games. (Something Fox Sports would like to see, I'm sure.)
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So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."
I would simply go with best Basketball only conference in the nation. (that's cheating, we play things other than basketball, but it's marketing...goes with the territory)
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong!
Early 2015 review. Must we still admit that "the AAC is easily better than this New Big East"? RPI Ranks from WarrenNolan.com
1 Big 12 0.6088
2 Big East 0.5828
3 SEC 0.5755
4 Big Ten 0.5700
5 ACC 0.5689
6 Pac12 0.5555
7 Atlantic10 0.5449
8 American 0.5216
9 MountainWest 0.5213
10 MissouriValley 0.5198
10 Villanova
18 Seton Hall
40 StJohns
49 Xavier
51 Butler
56 Temple
60 Marquette
66 Cincinnati
73 Providence
80 SMU
81 Georgetown
84 Tulsa
89 Connecticut
127 Creighton
136 Memphis
161 Tulane
187 DePaul
192 Houston
194 South Florida
239 UCF
251 East Carolina
I'm sure if we looked at Nolan Power Index ranks or KenPom.com ranks that the numbers would be the same.
Nobody would argue that this current conference is as good as the 2011 version of the conference, but it shows how important it was for the Presidents and ADs to act as they did when they did to form the current version of the conference. Most of us saw this last year already.
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Early 2015 review. Must we still admit that "the AAC is easily better than this New Big East"? RPI Ranks from WarrenNolan.com
1 Big 12 0.6088
2 Big East 0.5828
3 SEC 0.5755
4 Big Ten 0.5700
5 ACC 0.5689
6 Pac12 0.5555
7 Atlantic10 0.5449
8 American 0.5216
9 MountainWest 0.5213
10 MissouriValley 0.5198
10 Villanova
18 Seton Hall
40 StJohns
49 Xavier
51 Butler
56 Temple
60 Marquette
66 Cincinnati
73 Providence
80 SMU
81 Georgetown
84 Tulsa
89 Connecticut
127 Creighton
136 Memphis
161 Tulane
187 DePaul
192 Houston
194 South Florida
239 UCF
251 East Carolina
I'm sure if we looked at Nolan Power Index ranks or KenPom.com ranks that the numbers would be the same.
Nobody would argue that this current conference is as good as the 2011 version of the conference, but it shows how important it was for the Presidents and ADs to act as they did when they did to form the current version of the conference. Most of us saw this last year already.
Good post. We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better. This year it isn't even close. And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.
Will be interesting as the year's progress. If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.
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Good post. We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better. This year it isn't even close. And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.
Will be interesting as the year's progress. If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.
'
I'd say the AAC is pretty much already there.
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Great job. When I first looked at the post title I didn't catch the date and thought someone was crazy. Now if Kennedy is coming back then SMU should shoot back up, but kenpom has had the aac behind two mid-majors all year and it was a stretch for me to leave them classified as a high major.
I love the new big east, but I still wish UConn would downgrade football and come back. If that happened and Georgetown would let VCU in I'd love to see that 12 - but short of that the 10 team round robin looks great.
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We always joke about how awful DePaul is...but the AAC has four teams that are even worse. Ouch!
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Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east. Boy was I wrong!
I am surprised anyone cares. Kentucky is also better than Duke and Ohio State is better than MU etc. But lest we forget we went to Marquette. I think that is our interest, is it not? It is how much we progress toward our goals that counts. I really do not care that the ACC is better or that you were wrong in your prediction. Hope you understand life is not measured in absolutes. If it were everyone except the top dog is going to be very disappointed. Those odds gives you essentially no hope for success.
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Good post. We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better. This year it isn't even close. And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.
Will be interesting as the year's progress. If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.
Also the AAC is at risk of losing Cincinnati and possibly Memphis to the Big 12 since they have basically been shown they need to have a conference championship game to get into the new playoff. That would leave the AAC with just UConn and they would become CUSA afte the exodus of Marquette, Cincy, and Louisville.
I don't know how soon it will happen but adding those schools also helps WV by giving them a couple of closer road trips and improves their basketball and gives Kansas some competition for that conference title streak. It just makes too much sense for the Big 12 to at least not take one. The only other relevant school from a football perspective would be Boise St.
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Also the AAC is at risk of losing Cincinnati and possibly Memphis to the Big 12 since they have basically been shown they need to have a conference championship game to get into the new playoff. That would leave the AAC with just UConn and they would become CUSA afte the exodus of Marquette, Cincy, and Louisville.
I don't know how soon it will happen but adding those schools also helps WV by giving them a couple of closer road trips and improves their basketball and gives Kansas some competition for that conference title streak. It just makes too much sense for the Big 12 to at least not take one. The only other relevant school from a football perspective would be Boise St.
If Cincy and Memphis leave, I don't think there is any way UConn stays.
I think it is more likely only one of them would leave, and then the Big12 also takes Colorado State.
I think we should find a way to welcome UConn into the Big East. I know they are a football school, but we could get creative. They could put football somewhere else (MAC, there is precedent for football-only with UMass, but they will be leaving the conference to go independent in 2016, creating a vacancy), or even try it as an independent. I know we said no football schools but if we also took SLU that would only be 1/12 with football and the non-football schools would hold all the power, we could dictate whatever we wanted to UConn. It would really boost the conference. Further, football does not drive the bus at UConn. It is a basketball school. That is a big difference.
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if Boise State why not BYU?
Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract. By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.
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if Boise State why not BYU?
Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract. By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.
Colorado St.
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Just like I was wrong about Vander declaring, JJJ committing, us being overrated before the season..should I go on??
Are you in AA and trying to make amends?
One day at a time, brother. The program works if you work it.
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if Boise State why not BYU?
Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract. By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.
That might not be as big of a deal with the Big 12 since they don't split revenue evenly.
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That might not be as big of a deal with the Big 12 since they don't split revenue evenly.
If they expand, the Big XII doesn't have any options that don't have warts which fits with my idea several months ago posted on Scoop. Why can't the Big XII just add "football only schools" who would probably take less since the less would still be more than they're getting in their current conference. The championship game $$$ would more than offset the additions under that scenario and then you don't have to deal with all the "travel issues" with the non-football sports. They can open a "new market" any way they want. They can probably work in some guaranteed basketball games as part of the deal. (UConn-Kansas?)
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If Cincy and Memphis leave, I don't think there is any way UConn stays.
I think it is more likely only one of them would leave, and then the Big12 also takes Colorado State.
I think we should find a way to welcome UConn into the Big East. I know they are a football school, but we could get creative. They could put football somewhere else (MAC, there is precedent for football-only with UMass, but they will be leaving the conference to go independent in 2016, creating a vacancy), or even try it as an independent. I know we said no football schools but if we also took SLU that would only be 1/12 with football and the non-football schools would hold all the power, we could dictate whatever we wanted to UConn. It would really boost the conference. Further, football does not drive the bus at UConn. It is a basketball school. That is a big difference.
Just for reference, UMass was told they could either join the MAC for all sports or take their football elsewhere. They are no longer accepting football-only members. I otherwise agree that we should take any opportunity that arises to add UConn.
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Just for reference, UMass was told they could either join the MAC for all sports or take their football elsewhere. They are no longer accepting football-only members. I otherwise agree that we should take any opportunity that arises to add UConn.
Apparently, the only way they would have been allowed to stay in the MAC for football was if Temple stayed.
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If they expand, the Big XII doesn't have any options that don't have warts which fits with my idea several months ago posted on Scoop. Why can't the Big XII just add "football only schools" who would probably take less since the less would still be more than they're getting in their current conference. The championship game $$$ would more than offset the additions under that scenario and then you don't have to deal with all the "travel issues" with the non-football sports. They can open a "new market" any way they want. They can probably work in some guaranteed basketball games as part of the deal. (UConn-Kansas?)
What football playing conference would allow a member school to park its football program in another conference? None...so that is likely not an option.
Now this is where BYU comes in. BYU is a football independent and has its other sports in the non-football WCC. They *might* be willing to join as a football member, which also leaves the B12 not worrying about scheduling other events on Sunday. A current example of this is Hawaii, whose football program is in the MWC, but has the rest of its sports in the Big West.
So would UConn be willing to do something similar with its football program, parking the rest of its sports in the BE? Probably. Would the BE be interested? Eh...I don't know.
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What football playing conference would allow a member school to park its football program in another conference? None...so that is likely not an option.
Now this is where BYU comes in. BYU is a football independent and has its other sports in the non-football WCC. They *might* be willing to join as a football member, which also leaves the B12 not worrying about scheduling other events on Sunday. A current example of this is Hawaii, whose football program is in the MWC, but has the rest of its sports in the Big West.
So would UConn be willing to do something similar with its football program, parking the rest of its sports in the BE? Probably. Would the BE be interested? Eh...I don't know.
I don't know of any conference that allows you to split sports unless that conference your other sports are in doesn't support that sport. UMass was in the A10, didn't support football, and therefore played in the MAC but now has decided its all or nothing. Boise St. When they were going to join the Big East was going to move all other sports to the WCC which doesn't sponsor football. Most the times associate members wind up that way due to main conference not supporting non revenue sports.
I think BYU likes being independent. The most I see them doing is striking up a deal like ND has with the ACC to guarantee decent bowl games.
I don't know where the love for Colorado St. is coming from. They have been pretty bad at Football since 2008 up until last year and have only made 3 men's tournaments since 2000 and I'm not sure if it really adds a market since they don't really give you Denver.
From a competitive standpoint, in at least one sport, I think Boise St, Memphis, and Cincy make more sense and they clearly give you a new market. BYU would be an ideal just not sure if doable but basically gives you Utah and Mormons everywhere.
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Yeah I agree with you on BYU. They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.
And Colorado State sounds good. Big public university in a growing metropolitan area. However their football attendance is terrible. Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game. That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5. And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.
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I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting. Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not. It was from an apparent UC blog.
Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).
http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/
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Yeah I agree with you on BYU. They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.
And Colorado State sounds good. Big public university in a growing metropolitan area. However their football attendance is terrible. Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game. That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5. And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.
Anything in Denver area are a bunch of transplants. Attendance would go up because B12 alum in Denver would buy up tickets.
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I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting. Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not. It was from an apparent UC blog.
Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).
http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/
This has Denver written all over it
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I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting. Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not. It was from an apparent UC blog.
Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).
http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/
20% increase over 16 million *households?* Good luck getting 3.2M additional. The Denver metro area has about 1M households. Ditto Tampa / St. Pete. Boise, Albuquerque and Salt Lake aren't close to being big enough.
You are left picking over secondary schools in markets like Los Angeles and San Francisco.
If this is accurate, the B12 is either not expanding anytime soon, or members are going to have to take less money for the sake of a championship game.
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Yeah I agree with you on BYU. They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.
And Colorado State sounds good. Big public university in a growing metropolitan area. However their football attendance is terrible. Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game. That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5. And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.
CSU is currently working on plans for a new stadium, which would bump capacity to 40,000. Now, actually getting butts in the seats would be another thing--Fort Collins is more than an hour away from Denver, so gotta figure out how to draw people up from there. As mu03eng mentioned, there are a lot of Big 12 transplants here, who would travel better than many of the MWC fanbases. But generally, college sports are not very popular in Colorado--too many other competing interests for people's time and money, and since most are transplants, they tend to cheer for their home state teams rather than the Buffs, Rams, Pioneers, etc. Can CSU regularly draw more than 30K for a game? Maybe, but they need to keep working on improving the on-field product--we'll see if Bobo can sustain the success that McElwain started.
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And speaking of BYU, here is an article that is pretty interesting on the current status of the program in light of yesterday's brawl.
http://www.sltrib.com/sports/1982115-155/monson-after-brawl-byu-football-hardly?fullpage=1
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20% increase over 16 million *households?* Good luck getting 3.2M additional. The Denver metro area has about 1M households. Ditto Tampa / St. Pete. Boise, Albuquerque and Salt Lake aren't close to being big enough.
You are left picking over secondary schools in markets like Los Angeles and San Francisco.
If this is accurate, the B12 is either not expanding anytime soon, or members are going to have to take less money for the sake of a championship game.
Denver-Aurora CSA has 3.2 million people, which doesn't include the 300K in Fort Collins and ~100K in Cheyenne.
All told, the Front Range (throwing in Colorado Springs and Pueblo) has around 4.5M in it, and is one of the fastest growing regions in the country.
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There was another report yesterday, where the Big 12 Commissioner said in a radio interview that if they do expand it would be "east" rather than "west".
UConn gets you 968,450 in Hartford-New Haven plus whatever percentage Fairfield County occupies in the New York City market (which is probably about the same figure as Hartford-New Haven number).
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Denver-Aurora CSA has 3.2 million people, which doesn't include the 300K in Fort Collins and ~100K in Cheyenne.
All told, the Front Range (throwing in Colorado Springs and Pueblo) has around 4.5M in it, and is one of the fastest growing regions in the country.
No doubt. But I am quoting the article that says "households." The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.
http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html
If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.
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No doubt. But I am quoting the article that says "households." The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.
http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html
If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.
Ahhh--fair point. My mind slipped past the "household" part to the numbers themselves.
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No doubt. But I am quoting the article that says "households." The Denver / Boulder / Greeley MSA has just over 1M households.
http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/Households.html
If you throw in Fort Collins, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, you are up to about 1.4M.
Your chart is based on the 2000 census--That might be fine if you're in a slow-growth market like Detroit. Denver has been growing the past 15 years.
This link to Neilsen (2012) says 1.566 million. Round it up to 1.6 if you like.
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html (http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html)
BTW, Colorado Springs/Pueblo listed separately, with 343,990
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Your chart is based on the 2000 census--That might be fine if you're in a slow-growth market like Detroit. Denver has been growing the past 15 years.
This link to Neilsen (2012) says 1.566 million. Round it up to 1.6 if you like.
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html (http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html)
BTW, Colorado Springs/Pueblo listed separately, with 343,990
OK, that makes a lot more sense using TV numbers. So if you go Colorado State and South Florida, you have the 3.2 M households AND the new time zone. (How much those households actually care about CSU and USF football is debatable, but I don't know how relevant.)
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OK, that makes a lot more sense using TV numbers. So if you go Colorado State and South Florida, you have the 3.2 M households AND the new time zone. (How much those households actually care about CSU and USF football is debatable, but I don't know how relevant.)
I believe the attractiveness is the possibility that those amount of eyeballs are on the screen. It's part of the sports bubble in TV right now....eyeballs and live content in combination are driving revenue. So when the Big 12 looks to the next tv contract with Fox Sports or ESPN or whatever it's look how many games we have(content) and our viewer footprint(households). There really isn't a quality aspect to that calculation.
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I didn't know UMass was going independent for football... I really hope UConn does the same. If they do, we should not hesitate for a second to snap them up. Getting those two in the BEast and staying at 12 is my dream. Keeps the North East branding, and adds one massive fan base/brand, along with another large school & market.
That would give you:
UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
UMass
in the eastern seaboard, along with:
Marquette
Xavier
Creighton
Butler
DePaul
in the midwest.
Major upside, and the downside if they leave is that you go back to how the conference is currently situated. In my mind, there is absolutely no reason not to do it.
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UMass isn't going independent for football by choice. They simply have no willing conference partners that would allow them to be a "football only" member. (And the AAC isn't interested in having them as a full member.)
UConn isn't going to voluntarily go independent for football either.
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Mike Broeker @mikebroeker · 21m21 minutes ago
R/N Records
B12 - 31-16/.660
ACC - 39-27/.591
@BIGEASTMBB 27-22/.551
B10 - 36-30/.545
P12 - 26-31./456
SEC - 25-36/.410
#winawayfromhome
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Wouldn't be surprised to see the Big 12 add both Colorado State and UConn.
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Mike Broeker @mikebroeker · 21m21 minutes ago
R/N Records
B12 - 31-16/.660
ACC - 39-27/.591
@BIGEASTMBB 27-22/.551
B10 - 36-30/.545
P12 - 26-31./456
SEC - 25-36/.410
#winawayfromhome
Noticed also Big East has the highest average of games played away-neutral per team at 4.9. Next closest is Big 12 with 4.7
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@mikebroeker: Rec. vs. RPI T100
@BIGEASTMBB 32-20/.615
B12: 27-18/.600
ACC: 32-28/.533
P12: 21-26/.447
SEC: 28-30/.483
B10: 24-35/.407
#resumebuilding
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I didn't know UMass was going independent for football... I really hope UConn does the same. If they do, we should not hesitate for a second to snap them up. Getting those two in the BEast and staying at 12 is my dream. Keeps the North East branding, and adds one massive fan base/brand, along with another large school & market.
That would give you:
UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
UMass
in the eastern seaboard, along with:
Marquette
Xavier
Creighton
Butler
DePaul
in the midwest.
Major upside, and the downside if they leave is that you go back to how the conference is currently situated. In my mind, there is absolutely no reason not to do it.
Adding big public schools like UConn and UMass would be troubling for so many reasons - not the least of which being that they would always be looking elsewhere. Can't imagine ever feeling comfortable that schools like those would ever be truly dedicated to a basketball-only conference full of small Catholic schools.
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Te only hope for UCONN is the ACC. That is only going to happen if the SEC and/or the B1G poach more of their teams. Don't see that happening anytime soon.
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@mikebroeker: Rec. vs. RPI T100
@BIGEASTMBB 32-20/.615
B12: 27-18/.600
ACC: 32-28/.533
P12: 21-26/.447
SEC: 28-30/.483
B10: 24-35/.407
#resumebuilding
And again, the Big East has played the largest number of the RPI Top 100 per team at 5.2. Next closest is Big 12 with 4.5
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*Important Disclaimer* This is a crazy idea that would never work in the current college landscape. I am not saying this will ever happen. Just pitching a cool idea *end disclaimer*
What would people think about a merger with the ACC? Create a 3 division superconference? Each division member would play a home and home against every other division member and then two games against members of other divisions.
I'm thinking something like:
Northeast:
Boston College
Providence
UConn
Syracuse
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Southeast:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
VCU
Midwest:
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
Notre Dame
Louisville
Butler
Xavier
Pittsburgh
Villanova
It would be the ultimate basketball conference. It would also capitalize on some of the biggest rivalries in sports. Duke/UNC, CUSE/GTWN, BC/UCONN, MU/ND, etc. I realize all the barriers, but what a cool idea
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Adding big public schools like UConn and UMass would be troubling for so many reasons - not the least of which being that they would always be looking elsewhere. Can't imagine ever feeling comfortable that schools like those would ever be truly dedicated to a basketball-only conference full of small Catholic schools.
That doesn't matter to me. If they leave, we just go back to the current ten team status quo. NBD. But while they're here, it makes the conference better. I know this will likely not happen. I just wish it would.
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That doesn't matter to me. If they leave, we just go back to the current ten team status quo. NBD. But while they're here, it makes the conference better. I know this will likely not happen. I just wish it would.
If there is one thing that the basketball members learned, it's that in a conference with split loyalties, football will win out. It is not in the best interest of the conference to sacrifice long term stability simply to get "better" in the short-term.
The BE has a nice television contract and a pretty happy and committed membership. Why mess with that? If UConn or UMass dropped their football down to FCS, and agreed to keep it there for at least ten years, I would be fine with offering them membership. But as long as they have FBS football, both programs will be looking for better opportunities. That isn't in the best interests of the BE.
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*Important Disclaimer* This is a crazy idea that would never work in the current college landscape. I am not saying this will ever happen. Just pitching a cool idea *end disclaimer*
What would people think about a merger with the ACC? Create a 3 division superconference? Each division member would play a home and home against every other division member and then two games against members of other divisions.
I'm thinking something like:
Northeast:
Boston College
Providence
UConn
Syracuse
St. John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Southeast:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
VCU
Midwest:
Marquette
Depaul
Creighton
Notre Dame
Louisville
Butler
Xavier
Pittsburgh
Villanova
It would be the ultimate basketball conference. It would also capitalize on some of the biggest rivalries in sports. Duke/UNC, CUSE/GTWN, BC/UCONN, MU/ND, etc. I realize all the barriers, but what a cool idea
UVa and Va Tech in the "Northeast" and Nova in the "Midwest?" If the idea ever got wings (and I don't see it getting any), I suspect Nova would be in the Northeast with GTown, Cuse, St. John's, etc. The closest school to the "Midwest" would be - gasp - Va Tech.
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If there is one thing that the basketball members learned, it's that in a conference with split loyalties, football will win out. It is not in the best interest of the conference to sacrifice long term stability simply to get "better" in the short-term.
The BE has a nice television contract and a pretty happy and committed membership. Why mess with that? If UConn or UMass dropped their football down to FCS, and agreed to keep it there for at least ten years, I would be fine with offering them membership. But as long as they have FBS football, both programs will be looking for better opportunities. That isn't in the best interests of the BE.
I live here in Jersey. Every UCONN game is not on TV, at least here in New Jersey. Is every Notre Dame Game on TV? Not here in Jersey. I do get to see every game Marquette plays. Can't get any better than that. True for all Big East teams. That is a huge recruiting tool for the league. How many conferences can say all their teams have a majority of their games televised nationally.
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I live here in Jersey. Every UCONN game is not on TV, at least here in New Jersey. Is every Notre Dame Game on TV? Not here in Jersey. I do get to see every game Marquette plays. Can't get any better than that. True for all Big East teams. That is a huge recruiting tool for the league. How many conferences can say all their teams have a majority of their games televised nationally.
Actually you should get every UConn game in Jersey. SNY is supposed to carry every men's & women's game not carried by one of the other big sports outlets.
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Mike DeCourcy ranks the Big East #3 right now, behind the ACC and Big 12.
Big 10 4th, AAC 8th.
It'll never be the former Big East, but I think MU fans have to feel pretty good about how all this turned out.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-12-29/top-conferences-college-basketball-ncaa-2014-season-acc-big-12-big-ten-b1g