If Buzz needed to win to keep job......

[MerrittsMustache]

As for earning playing time in practice, obviously everyone has because 11 guys play every game. The rotation and lack of working up a sweat in a one minute shift is what is hurting the team. We stuck with an unlikely group last night and it paid off.

I do not think Buzz is trying to lose, but it often looks like we are not playing best lineup to allow us to win. He made a plan and stuck with it this season. When you are playing the 24th game of the year and still have not figured out what rotations work either you have 11 guy who cannot play or you reaching for straws.

While watching the St. John's game, did Todd Mayo give you any indication that he was poised to put this team on his back and lead a come-from-behind victory 3 days later? Did you watch Jamil get benched in that game and think that he was going to be the team's primary offense in the first half of the next game?

This team is wildly inconsistent. If the versions of Mayo and Jamil who played last night had played every game, this season would look very different.

[WarriorFan]

It takes more than 5 guys to win a basketball game.  And you can't have your 5 best together all the time because you need scoring all the time.  Given the wild inconsistency of all of the players on the team, it seems like it's 16:00 in the 2nd half before ANYONE can figure out who's playing tonite and who's useless.  Same again with this game, but the combo was found and they won it. 

Second thought - Buzz has certain combos he never uses.
Dawson never plays with other freshmen  (imho - bad, I think it would be exciting)
Gardner Otoule is not happening any more (bad experiment)

But, there are some good combos as well:
Mayo/Jake (shooting and spacing)
Burton/JJJ (high energy)
Burton/Gardner (rebounding)

And, there are some inadvertent combinations that are failures:
Taylor/Gardner (Taylor hogs the ball and the low post)
Derrick/Dawson (Why? - if Dawson is on, get Derrick out)
Taylor/Anderson (Looks good on paper, but no offense)

I hope Buzz figures these out and gets more of the good combos on the court together.

[Goose]

Merritt

If beating St. John's meant saving his job I highly doubt that Jamil and Mayo would have sat the 2nd half. Their worst efforts are better than Juan's an Jake's best efforts. Buzz has earned the right to do what he seems fit and he is doing that this season. This is a strange season and the constant changes in lineups have made it even more strange.

For the record, this is not the first time an MU coach has made similar decisions. Al put a walk on, in OT,  in during a must win game in late '77 and we lost. Rick flat out told guys that they would get limited minutes at best prior to the season because he was going to play lesser talented guys. Coaches that earned their stripes are in position to do different things than guys fighting for their jobs.

I have ZERO problem with what Buzz is doing, especially now because probably a lost season already. If something positive come out of this season all the better. But, to think that Jamil and Todd sitting 2nd half Saturday gave us best chance to win I think is beyond crazy.

[GGGG]

It takes more than 5 guys to win a basketball game.  And you can't have your 5 best together all the time because you need scoring all the time.  Given the wild inconsistency of all of the players on the team, it seems like it's 16:00 in the 2nd half before ANYONE can figure out who's playing tonite and who's useless.  Same again with this game, but the combo was found and they won it. 

Second thought - Buzz has certain combos he never uses.
Dawson never plays with other freshmen  (imho - bad, I think it would be exciting)

He did against Providence and it was terrible.

[Dawson Rental]

Merritt

If beating St. John's meant saving his job I highly doubt that Jamil and Mayo would have sat the 2nd half. Their worst efforts are better than Juan's an Jake's best efforts. Buzz has earned the right to do what he seems fit and he is doing that this season. This is a strange season and the constant changes in lineups have made it even more strange.

For the record, this is not the first time an MU coach has made similar decisions. Al put a walk on, in OT,  in during a must win game in late '77 and we lost. Rick flat out told guys that they would get limited minutes at best prior to the season because he was going to play lesser talented guys. Coaches that earned their stripes are in position to do different things than guys fighting for their jobs.

I have ZERO problem with what Buzz is doing, especially now because probably a lost season already. If something positive come out of this season all the better. But, to think that Jamil and Todd sitting 2nd half Saturday gave us best chance to win I think is beyond crazy.

"If beating St. John's meant saving his job I highly doubt that Jamil and Mayo would have sat the 2nd half. Their worst efforts are better than Juan's an Jake's best efforts."

This is just not true.  In Jamil's worst efforts, he is a no show and/or gets into foul trouble quickly.  Juan has had a few better outings than that.  Jake's second half against Arizona State was certainly better than a few Mayo outings where he hogged the ball, shot poorly and made more than his share of turnovers.

[willie warrior]

Hard to believe, but that combo had it going big time.

Don't forget who we were playing--the last place team in the league. Let's go with Otule for 3o minutes a game and see where we are.

And yes Todd had a great 2nd half, and I hope he keeps that up, but his past shows lots of inconsistency--just like Ja. Wilson.

That said, the 3 guard lineup won't work against many teams, and Gardner needs to be in there for offense. Otule is a 10 minute man.

[Goose]

Little Murs

Respectfully disagree. So, if your paycheck was on the line you would have benched Todd and Jamil on Saturday? If my job was 100% on the line I am betting on those two over the other options.

[Aughnanure]

Why are we even talking about Buzz's job?

[MU82]

It takes more than 5 guys to win a basketball game.  And you can't have your 5 best together all the time because you need scoring all the time.  Given the wild inconsistency of all of the players on the team, it seems like it's 16:00 in the 2nd half before ANYONE can figure out who's playing tonite and who's useless.  Same again with this game, but the combo was found and they won it. 

Second thought - Buzz has certain combos he never uses.
Dawson never plays with other freshmen  (imho - bad, I think it would be exciting)
Gardner Otoule is not happening any more (bad experiment)

But, there are some good combos as well:
Mayo/Jake (shooting and spacing)
Burton/JJJ (high energy)
Burton/Gardner (rebounding)

And, there are some inadvertent combinations that are failures:
Taylor/Gardner (Taylor hogs the ball and the low post)
Derrick/Dawson (Why? - if Dawson is on, get Derrick out)
Taylor/Anderson (Looks good on paper, but no offense)

I hope Buzz figures these out and gets more of the good combos on the court together.

Against Georgetown, Taylor and Gardner were an extremely effective combination. Buzz played a high-post/low-post offense, and the two moved around a lot, with one playing the high post on one possession and then rotating to the low on the next. Both can hit that shot from the FT line, and Gardner is a good passer from there. Those two can't play with Burton on the court, too, and maybe Gardner/Taylor can only be effective in limited doses, but it can work. I know because it has!

[MU82]

Why are we even talking about Buzz's job?

I wonder what lineups Coach K and Calipari would use to save their jobs.

[MerrittsMustache]

"If beating St. John's meant saving his job I highly doubt that Jamil and Mayo would have sat the 2nd half. Their worst efforts are better than Juan's an Jake's best efforts."

This is just not true.  In Jamil's worst efforts, he is a no show and/or gets into foul trouble quickly.  Juan has had a few better outings than that.  Jake's second half against Arizona State was certainly better than a few Mayo outings where he hogged the ball, shot poorly and made more than his share of turnovers.

Agree 100%. In fact, Mayo's game against St. John's was about as bad as he could be (0 points, 4 TOs and a flagrant). Jake, on the other hand, shot 4-7 from the floor with three 3s and scored 11 points and that wasn't his best game of the season.

[Goose]

Auggie


My point is simple, are we doing our best to win games or we have learning experience season? IMO we have sacrificed wins for whatever reason. Last night he stuck with a lineup, a strange one, that worked and we won. Much of this season has been changing players every minute or two and that has not worked well.

[MerrittsMustache]

Auggie


My point is simple, are we doing our best to win games or we have learning experience season? IMO we have sacrificed wins for whatever reason. Last night he stuck with a lineup, a strange one, that worked and we won. Much of this season has been changing players every minute or two and that has not worked well.

Just like every other coach in the country, Buzz has one goal...

[Aughnanure]

Auggie


My point is simple, are we doing our best to win games or we have learning experience season? IMO we have sacrificed wins for whatever reason. Last night he stuck with a lineup, a strange one, that worked and we won. Much of this season has been changing players every minute or two and that has not worked well.

This is just the third or so post that has dared to mention Buzz's (warm? hot? could be getting not cold?) seat. I don't know why people need to even bring it up to make their point, unless they're simply trying to get attention. I also think it hurts any point you were trying to make, because it's such a provocative (and bad) suggestion.

[Goose]

Guys--

For the record I am giving Buzz the benefit of the doubt for being quirky and this being learning lesson. If indeed he feels he is giving team best chance to win this season it is a failure. Picked to win new BE and have only beat one BE with winning record, brutal NC performance, especially with what OSU and UW have done of late and not one quality win.

I will stick with my premise and move on.

Auggie

There in NO HOT HOT SEAT at MU for Buzz or anyone else. The question was hypothetical.

[Lennys Tap]

Goose,

At St Johns I think the game was essentially over at halftime. Maybe we have a 2% chance of winning with Jamil and Todd playing in the second half instead of a 1% chance but really what's the difference? Sometimes guys learn lessons sitting on the bench. Last night both Jamil and Todd both played with an urgency that wasn't there on Saturday, so I would say mission accomplished.

[MerrittsMustache]

Guys--

For the record I am giving Buzz the benefit of the doubt for being quirky and this being learning lesson. If indeed he feels he is giving team best chance to win this season it is a failure. Picked to win new BE and have only beat one BE with winning record, brutal NC performance, especially with what OSU and UW have done of late and not one quality win.

I will stick with my premise and move on.

Auggie

There in NO HOT HOT SEAT at MU for Buzz or anyone else. The question was hypothetical.

So many flaws to this post. Where to begin?

First of all, there are only 4 BE teams with winning records. Sure, MU has lost to 3 of them but two of those teams are currently ranked #6 and #12 in the country and the other game was on the road.

MU's non-conf performance was brutal? Really? Brutal? They lost 3 games to teams in the top 20 RPI, others to #28 and #47 with only one of those losses being at home. They had a really tough schedule, played several down-to-the-wire games but unfortunately couldn't close. Was it disappointing? Sure, but it was hardly "brutal." Also, GW is a quality win.

MU played OSU nearly 3 months ago and Wisconsin 2 months ago. A lot can change in that amount of time. Both teams are still top 20 in RPI.

Question for you: Why would Buzz, or any coach for that matter, not be trying ti win every game?

[NersEllenson]

Agree 100%. In fact, Mayo's game against St. John's was about as bad as he could be (0 points, 4 TOs and a flagrant). Jake, on the other hand, shot 4-7 from the floor with three 3s and scored 11 points and that wasn't his best game of the season.

Oh ye of infinite basketball wisdom Merritt - Do you believe Jake Thomas is a better basketball player than Todd Mayo?

[MerrittsMustache]

Oh ye of infinite basketball wisdom Merritt - Do you believe Jake Thomas is a better basketball player than Todd Mayo?

No and I never said that. To say that Mayo's worst is better than Jake's best (which is what I was responding to) is just flat-out wrong.

[Goose]

Lenny
100% agree and that was my point. Saturday's learning lesson meant more than a W and I believe other games have had similar theme. Nothing wrong with lessons being taught, even at expense of a win. Al always said there were good losses. No coach wants to lose, but coaches with no pressure have luxury of taking one for the team.

Merritt
If you are preseason favorite to win an elite conference and you strike out it is brutal. If UW was preseason pick to win Big10 and did what we did you would be blating them and rightfully so. We are all laughing at Bucky now but when they beat MU they were highly regarded on here.

[MerrittsMustache]

Merritt
If you are preseason favorite to win an elite conference and you strike out it is brutal. If UW was preseason pick to win Big10 and did what we did you would be blating them and rightfully so. We are all laughing at Bucky now but when they beat MU they were highly regarded on here.

MU being the Big East preseason favorite makes losing non-conf games to good teams brutal?

Also, other than for one Saturday in December, I don't follow Wisconsin basketball.

[tower912]

Oh ye of infinite basketball wisdom Merritt - Do you believe Jake Thomas is a better basketball player than Todd Mayo?

No.   But if the Todd Mayo of the St John's game is the Todd Mayo du jour, then I want Jake out there.   You may have noticed he was on the floor during the big run last night.  

[PBRme]

Maybe it is a coincidence but when Mayo has a good/great game we seem to win and when Thomas does .... well it does not seem to matter much

[esotericmindguy]

Because they're inconsistent!  He's trying to find combinations that work because he doesn't know what he's going to get from night-to-night.

Do you remember I think it was two years ago when DJO and Jae had 80% of the SOTG awards?  That isn't happening this year because Buzz can't figure out who's going to show up on any given night.  That is why he has been running in oddball line ups and getting a lot of guys playing time.

23 games in and your defending Buzz for trying to find a rotation. It's not even worth a discussion with you. When buzz looks back he'll even say he messed up this year. I'm a buzz guy, but he's doubling down on bad decisions. It's not coincidence that the team performs when he settles with a rotation in the second half.

[MerrittsMustache]

23 games in and your defending Buzz for trying to find a rotation. It's not even worth a discussion with you. When buzz looks back he'll even say he messed up this year. I'm a buzz guy, but he's doubling down on bad decisions. It's not coincidence that the team performs when he settles with a rotation in the second half.

What should he have done differently? Be specific.