Scoop and MU Guards

[Tugg Speedman]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

[4everwarriors]

You're so old, you remember when there was a S15, hey?

[Nukem2]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

This time the grief is real.  Just look at the comparative stats....

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

Out of all of those guards you listed, D Wil's team is the most likely to go to the NIT.

[NersEllenson]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

Seriously - give it up dude.

D James - That's what a lockdown defender looks like, and he made for than 2 3pt shots in his career through 20 games into his junior season.

Mo and Cubes could actually shoot the 3, and Mo could penetrate and dish and created good looks for his teammates

Vander sucked as a freshman.  Was a little better as a sophomore.

Buycks was a hell of a lot better than Derrick and is in the NBA - think D-Will will sniff an NBA contract?

Junior - We won a share of the REAL Big East Championship with him running point last year.  This year?? 

But yes, I do agree....I cannot freaking stand it any longer seeing Derrick on the floor...

Notice a trend with Derrick getting 30+ minutes?  We are 10-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams in country.

[BCHoopster]

Seriously - give it up dude.

D James - That's what a lockdown defender looks like, and he made for than 2 3pt shots in his career through 20 games into his junior season.

Mo and Cubes could actually shoot the 3, and Mo could penetrate and dish and created good looks for his teammates

Vander sucked as a freshman.  Was a little better as a sophomore.

Buycks was a hell of a lot better than Derrick and is in the NBA - think D-Will will sniff an NBA contract?

Junior - We won a share of the REAL Big East Championship with him running point last year.  This year?? 

But yes, I do agree....I cannot freaking stand it any longer seeing Derrick on the floor...

Notice a trend with Derrick getting 30+ minutes?  We are 10-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams in country.

Buzz must be stubborn, Derrick flies up the court and then is not creative enough to do something with the ball.  We all see it except Buzz.  If we were in the 70's before the 3 point line MU
would be great this year, but in this era, the 3 point shot is king.  Buzz needs to recruit better shooters, that is the bottom line.  I hope Hill and Duane Wilson bring it next year. 

[mu_hilltopper]

Vander .. wasn't a PG, and .. I don't recall anyone being banned for "ripping on" him. 

In other news .. the hundreds of authors on Scoop are like hundreds of monkeys on typewriters.  I doubt ANY player has ever escaped without someone posting negative reviews about their play.

[seakm4]

Vander .. wasn't a PG, and .. I don't recall anyone being banned for "ripping on" him. 

In other news .. the hundreds of authors on Scoop are like hundreds of monkeys on typewriters.  I doubt ANY player has ever escaped without someone posting negative reviews about their play.

+1

Anybody notice that Dawson didn't play a g'town type game today?  Derrick brings consistancy.  You know what you get better be solid on one end and get a few points on the other.

That said I like JD at the point.  I think it opens our offense so much, but rewatching the game today (yes i suffered through it) and some of the GT game he gets lost on d.

I say we tank the season and go for the lottery pick. Wiggins to MU 15!!!

[DaCoach]

+1

Anybody notice that Dawson didn't play a g'town type game today?  Derrick brings consistancy.  You know what you get better be solid on one end and get a few points on the other.

Consistent inadequacy is not a desirable quality.

[royceda5 9]

Why do we act like the NIT is a given? We still have to be over .500. Is that a given? Jake is still on the team, remember?

[77ncaachamps]

Why do we act like the NIT is a given? We still have to be over .500. Is that a given? Jake is still on the team, remember?

I have confidence in this team to be an NIT team.
But this team doesn't pass the eye test for the NCAAs.

Davante won't allow his last season to be bereft of a post-season.

[PGsHeroes32]

I didn't rip any of those other guards

But thank you for your post. Shows how awful we really are with him running the show.

[79Warrior]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

Well, you just helped the argument why this year pg is the worst of the bunch.

[BallBoy]

Notice a trend with Derrick getting 30+ minutes?  We are 10-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams in country.

Please name the games, of the 9 losses, that we would have won with Wilson not at point.       

[PGsHeroes32]

Please name the games, of the 9 losses, that we would have won with Wilson not at point.       

First, let me ask this...is your question basically asking how many losses do we have if Dawson is the starter instead? Or are the other guards referenced in this thread fair game?

Either way, Ners point that you quoted and the original post of this thread show that Derrick is NOT the answer.

Whether or not our record would be better without Derrick at the point it is a fact that we are 10-9 with no good wins when he gets 30 minutes.

[chapman]

Of that list of All-Conference and future NBA players, remind me which one was leading the team in minutes when we were tracking to our worst season in 13 years? 

[forgetful]

Of that list of All-Conference and future NBA players, remind me which one was leading the team in minutes when we were tracking to our worst season in 13 years?  

Easy, Dwight Buycks, after starting the pre-conference slate at 9-4 we had lost every single out of conference game against a quality opponent.  People on here were saying we would be likely to make the NIT.

We then fell to 15-11, 6-7 in the Big East and everyone had given up hope and said the season was over.

We won 3 of the last 5 to get to 18-13 and .500 in conference play.  We won 2 in the conference tournament before getting absolutely embarrassed by Louisville in the conference tournament.  We squeaked into the NCAA's and made it to the sweet 16.

[BallBoy]

First, let me ask this...is your question basically asking how many losses do we have if Dawson is the starter instead? Or are the other guards referenced in this thread fair game?

Either way, Ners point that you quoted and the original post of this thread show that Derrick is NOT the answer.

Whether or not our record would be better without Derrick at the point it is a fact that we are 10-9 with no good wins when he gets 30 minutes.

Ners contention is that DWilson playing 30+ minutes is the reason we 11-9 (note he says 10-9 because of Georgetown but did not take out Creighton or Xavier).  So yes, it is DWilson only.  As I have said over and over again, DWilson is not the reason we are 11-9 but Ners believes that he is and if Dawson played that outcome would be different.

It isn't that Wilson is the answer but shows that Wilson is NOT the problem.  If our record would still be 11-9 then there has to be another issues.  As of this moment, Buzz feels Wilson is his best option and until he is willing to either throw in the towel or Dawson has shown he is the guy then Buzz should roll with that best option.  Proving you should play more doesn't happen on the court.  It happens in practice. 

Just a FYI our record is not 10-9 when he gets 30+ minutes.  It is 5-6.  The six losses were OSU, ASU, Wisconsin, NMU, Butler, and Villanova so had Wilson not played 30+ minutes would we have won those games?  

OSU - No way Dawson 3 games into the season was going to impact this game
ASU - Arguably Wilson's best game and he kept us in it offensively.
7 assist, no turnovers and 14pts so I doubt Dawson would have changed it.
SDSU - Though it was close for awhile but Dawson getting more minutes would not impacted the outcome
Wisconsin (at the Kohl) - Highly doubt Dawson would have changed the game but note that MU was in it until the end
NMU - I don't believe he would have changed the outcome
Butler - Arguable but Wilson was 6 rebs, 2 stls, 13 point 4 asts.  A fairly good state line except for the 5 TOs.
Nova - Dawson didn't show that he could do much and Wilson kept it very close against a Top 10 team

[4everwarriors]

Any of y'all watchin' the Grammys?

[77ncaachamps]

Any of y'all watchin' the Grammys?

Elderly ladies?

No, thank you.

[PGsHeroes32]

Ners contention is that DWilson playing 30+ minutes is the reason we 11-9 (note he says 10-9 because of Georgetown but did not take out Creighton or Xavier).  So yes, it is DWilson only.  As I have said over and over again, DWilson is not the reason we are 11-9 but Ners believes that he is and if Dawson played that outcome would be different.

It isn't that Wilson is the answer but shows that Wilson is NOT the problem.  If our record would still be 11-9 then there has to be another issues.  As of this moment, Buzz feels Wilson is his best option and until he is willing to either throw in the towel or Dawson has shown he is the guy then Buzz should roll with that best option.  Proving you should play more doesn't happen on the court.  It happens in practice. 

Just a FYI our record is not 10-9 when he gets 30+ minutes.  It is 5-6.  The six losses were OSU, ASU, Wisconsin, NMU, Butler, and Villanova so had Wilson not played 30+ minutes would we have won those games?  

OSU - No way Dawson 3 games into the season was going to impact this game
ASU - Arguably Wilson's best game and he kept us in it offensively.
7 assist, no turnovers and 14pts so I doubt Dawson would have changed it.
SDSU - Though it was close for awhile but Dawson getting more minutes would not impacted the outcome
Wisconsin (at the Kohl) - Highly doubt Dawson would have changed the game but note that MU was in it until the end
NMU - I don't believe he would have changed the outcome
Butler - Arguable but Wilson was 6 rebs, 2 stls, 13 point 4 asts.  A fairly good state line except for the 5 TOs.
Nova - Dawson didn't show that he could do much and Wilson kept it very close against a Top 10 team

Yeah I'll admit it is hard to say with any sort of certainty if we would have won any of those other games but a few things...

First while he can't be labeled the problem he's certainly a big part of it. It's why with him finally running the show we are so much worse than any MU team in a decade.

SDSU wasn't close for a while the entire game was literally neck and neck. Ironically it was derricks guy who went off and we ended up losing. That one we probably win with Dawson. OSU couldn't of been any worse at least

Overall ASU was a good game for derrick but Carson went off and we gave up 79 points. Not a ringing endorsement for the buzz claimed best defender. Then UNM I think we win with Dawson. Offense completely stalled in that one with Derrick in the game.

Butler was a good game for him stat wise but did you not see that awful 15 minute stretch? Since everyone was so bad you can't blame him but as a PG he generated nothing for 15 minutes...

[chapman]

Easy, Dwight Buycks, after starting the pre-conference slate at 9-4 we had lost every single out of conference game against a quality opponent.  People on here were saying we would be likely to make the NIT.

We then fell to 15-11, 6-7 in the Big East and everyone had given up hope and said the season was over.

We won 3 of the last 5 to get to 18-13 and .500 in conference play.  We won 2 in the conference tournament before getting absolutely embarrassed by Louisville in the conference tournament.  We squeaked into the NCAA's and made it to the sweet 16.

Doing that in the 2010-11 Big East, the single best conference ever, with someone who had NBA talent but had never played the position before.  Versus...well, this.

Ners contention is that DWilson playing 30+ minutes is the reason we 11-9 (note he says 10-9 because of Georgetown but did not take out Creighton or Xavier).

I wasn't aware that Dawson played 30 minutes in those games?  Actually, he didn't even get 30 seconds against Creighton.

OSU - No way Dawson 3 games into the season was going to impact this game
ASU - Arguably Wilson's best game and he kept us in it offensively.
7 assist, no turnovers and 14pts so I doubt Dawson would have changed it.
SDSU - Though it was close for awhile but Dawson getting more minutes would not impacted the outcome
Wisconsin (at the Kohl) - Highly doubt Dawson would have changed the game but note that MU was in it until the end
NMU - I don't believe he would have changed the outcome
Butler - Arguable but Wilson was 6 rebs, 2 stls, 13 point 4 asts.  A fairly good state line except for the 5 TOs.
Nova - Dawson didn't show that he could do much and Wilson kept it very close against a Top 10 team

You just countered Ners' speculative opinions with..." ideas or guesses about something that is not known that someone thinks about a particular thing"

[BallBoy]

I wasn't aware that Dawson played 30 minutes in those games?  Actually, he didn't even get 30 seconds against Creighton.

You just countered Ners' speculative opinions with..." ideas or guesses about something that is not known that someone thinks about a particular thing"

Who said anything about Dawson playing 30+ minutes?  Note that I said DWilson and also note that Wilson did not play 30+ minutes against Creighton or Xavier so the record is not 10-9 with DWilson playing 30+ minutes. 

At least I am going on record as to how I see the outcome.  If you are going to speculate that our record would be different at least say how.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I've been here since 2008 ...

* ripped DJ for playing poorly

* Went nuts about Cube and Acker as they were too small and not D1 guards.

* Ripped Vander so bad some were banned from this board.

* collectively saw their heads explode when D Buycks ran the point

* bitter complained about Junior

* cannot stand it when Dwill is on the floor.

Anyone notice a trend here?  And while we were constantly whining about out lousy guard play ...

* Top 10 ranking in 2009 and 2013
* S16 in 2011 and 2012
* E8 in 2013

I still think DJ is the most inexplicably highly regarded player in MU history. He sure could jump though.

[forgetful]

Doing that in the 2010-11 Big East, the single best conference ever, with someone who had NBA talent but had never played the position before.  Versus...well, this.

You're right.  Doesn't change the fact that people called for Buycks head.  Heck we had a poster with the name "nomorebuycks", because constantly posting about how awful he was, wasn't enough.

But while comparing to that team.  We also do not have 5 future NBA players on this roster.  Four (Buycks, DJO, Crowder, Butler), that saw significant action.

How do you think we would be this year if you took DJO, Crowder, Butler and put them on this years team instead of Wilson, Jake and (either gardner or Otule).  Put DJO, Crowder and Butler on this team and we are easily 16-4 even with Derrick.

Why?  DJO, Crowder and Butler were defensive specialists who were offensive threats.  They played hard 40 minutes a game, fought for every loose ball and were consistent.  That is what is missing from this team.