Tip of the hat to Ners

[ATL MU Warrior]

If Carson (or any other top player) gets in the zone, no one man can stop him. Of course, it was not all Derrick's fault. Carson was able to get into the lane at will, so the help defense needs to be there.

I probably should have gone into more detail in my post, but it was mainly just in response to all the posts I have seen today and last night that we were losing (and will continue to) so much defense with Dawson in the game. While I think we all can agree that DW is a better defender, Dawson was not a huge drop off.

Actually, the only "bad" defense by John that I saw was that he was a little slow reacting when the ball was swung to his man on the weak side. But part of that is Buzz - as he wants the man on the weak side to be shading toward the paint. John just wasn't quick enough to react a few times when the ball was swung back that way. But as we have seen this year and in years past, he isn't the only one with that problem.

Now this I can agree with.  Honestly, I am just fed up with the bashing that's come along with a disappointing season to date and incorrectly interpreted your post as more of the same.  I thought Dawson's defense was solid yesterday.

[keefe]

You of course are correct.  

I think in that particular game, nobody was going to stop Jahii Carson.  If anyone was going to, I'd take my chances with the guy who had proven he could at least limit a great offensive player over an unheralded freshman suiting up for his 3rd or 4th collegiate game.  I would think anybody would.  

Nevertheless, the fact that their entire team shot close to 55% leads me to believe the loss was a group effort.  Was Derrick guarding all of them too?  Was he guarding their center who went 6-8?  

Or, we could single out one guy (for the millionth time) and blame him.  That just seems unfair to me.

I don't think anyone has ever been unfairly critical of Wilson. I think he is the starter because of circumstance. H was likely going to play 15 with Duane playing the other 25 (Buzz said so directly when talking about Duane's injury.) From what I have seen from 2,000 miles away Derrick seems like a great guy and represents our university superbly. But he is a liability as a starting 1 in the Big East and our record reflects that.

And people cite his lock down defense and yet his primary's offense has often been a major factor in our defeats. There is no such thing as a lock down defender for the first 30 minutes. Jimmy Butler plays lock down defense for 48 (or 60) minutes. If he played lock down defense for 36 minutes he likely would not have a reputation for being a lock down defender.

[brandx]

Now this I can agree with.  Honestly, I am just fed up with the bashing that's come along with a disappointing season to date and incorrectly interpreted your post as more of the same.  I thought Dawson's defense was solid yesterday.

I don't have any problem with you calling me out or disagreeing with me. That's what the board is for.

You probably didn't see a post of mine yesterday as to my reasons for the bad season so far. I put the blame in 3 different places - lack of leadership/bad play by the senior frontcourt; a shooting guard who has only been a so-so shooter for the most part and can't create his own shot; the PG weakness.

I believe PG has been out biggest weakness this year, but by no means the only one.

[tower912]

This is where I disagreed with you earlier. 100 percent!! If anyone is one of the best players on the floor, I think maybe the coach on the other team would say "Hey, let's guard that guy".

It should be a given that you are not one of the best players when the other team uses you to help themselves win (using your man to double-team elsewhere on basically every possession).

For once, he took advantage of the gaps, got to the rack and finished.   Double digit points in the first half means for that half of basketball, he was the best (or second best.  Gardner had a good first half, too) on the floor for MU.  He pushed the ball and played really good defense on the Butler gunner, Dunham.   Frankly, it was as good a half of basketball on both ends of the floor as anyone on the team has played this year.     If the whole team hadn't gone in the tank for the last 20 minutes, it would have been THE topic of conversation.    The end result does not detract from Derrick's first half against Butler.   Just like if Mayo's shot rims out last night, it would not have taken away from STjr's outstanding effort.

[Norm]

And people cite his lock down defense and yet his primary's offense has often been a major factor in our defeats. There is no such thing as a lock down defender for the first 30 minutes. Jimmy Butler plays lock down defense for 48 (or 60) minutes. If he played lock down defense for 36 minutes he likely would not have a reputation for being a lock down defender.

Yeah, D Wilson is a good defender, but no way would I ever characterize him as a "lock down" defender. A lot of the guys he has guarded this year have had really good offensive games against MU.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't have any problem with you calling me out or disagreeing with me. That's what the board is for.

You probably didn't see a post of mine yesterday as to my reasons for the bad season so far. I put the blame in 3 different places - lack of leadership/bad play by the senior frontcourt; a shooting guard who has only been a so-so shooter for the most part and can't create his own shot; the PG weakness.

I believe PG has been out biggest weakness this year, but by no means the only one.

Surprises to the downside:
1. McKay leaves, we get nothing from him.
2. Duane Wilson hurt, we get nothing from him.
3. Steve Taylor Jr's injury lingers, we get nothing from him until last night.

Mild surprises to the downside:
1. No improvement from Chris
2. No improvement from Derrick
3. No improvement from Davante, and a serious lack of focus earlier which had him shooting poorly even from the (automatic) foul line
4. Jamil, same as Davante
5. No improvement from Juan.
6. Almost nothing from JJJ, our highest rated recruit in a very long time.

Mild surprises to the upside:
1.Deonte has more game and potential than I expected.

Surprises to the upside:
1. John Dawson is much better than I expected a non top 150 guy from basketball poor New Mexico to be
2. Jake, though limited, is way better than the walk on he was last year.

Because the downside surprises have solidly outweighed the upside ones, you can add that Buzz has struggled to find the right combinations - something he's normally very good at. Put it all together and it spells disappointment.

[brandx]

Pretty good assessment

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Surprises to the downside:
1. McKay leaves, we get nothing from him.
2. Duane Wilson hurt, we get nothing from him.
3. Steve Taylor Jr's injury lingers, we get nothing from him until last night.

Mild surprises to the downside:
1. No improvement from Chris
2. No improvement from Derrick
3. No improvement from Davante, and a serious lack of focus earlier which had him shooting poorly even from the (automatic) foul line
4. Jamil, same as Davante
5. No improvement from Juan.
6. Almost nothing from JJJ, our highest rated recruit in a very long time.

Mild surprises to the upside:
1.Deonte has more game and potential than I expected.

Surprises to the upside:
1. John Dawson is much better than I expected a non top 150 guy from basketball poor New Mexico to be
2. Jake, though limited, is way better than the walk on he was last year.

Because the downside surprises have solidly outweighed the upside ones, you can add that Buzz has struggled to find the right combinations - something he's normally very good at. Put it all together and it spells disappointment.

Really well said.

[NersEllenson]

What are you willing to wager than Dawson will average fewer than 27.5 minutes per game (avg of 25-30) the rest of the way?

Said Dawson should* get 25-30 per game here on out. Still not confident Buzz will all of a sudden give him that as he's been so damn stubborn in giving Dawson minutes this far. I will wager this - from this point forward Dawson will average more points and assists per 40 minutes than Derrick. 3 month hiatus for loser?

[MerrittsMustache]

Surprises to the downside:
1. McKay leaves, we get nothing from him.
2. Duane Wilson hurt, we get nothing from him.
3. Steve Taylor Jr's injury lingers, we get nothing from him until last night.

Mild surprises to the downside:
1. No improvement from Chris
2. No improvement from Derrick
3. No improvement from Davante, and a serious lack of focus earlier which had him shooting poorly even from the (automatic) foul line
4. Jamil, same as Davante
5. No improvement from Juan.
6. Almost nothing from JJJ, our highest rated recruit in a very long time.

Mild surprises to the upside:
1.Deonte has more game and potential than I expected.

Surprises to the upside:
1. John Dawson is much better than I expected a non top 150 guy from basketball poor New Mexico to be
2. Jake, though limited, is way better than the walk on he was last year.

Because the downside surprises have solidly outweighed the upside ones, you can add that Buzz has struggled to find the right combinations - something he's normally very good at. Put it all together and it spells disappointment.

The only point I'd disagree with is Derrick not improving. He's much more of an offensive threat than he was last season. This season he's increased his career point total by 160% and (believe it or not) has increased his FG% by nearly 9 points. Don't get me wrong, he's still a very limited offensive player but he's better than he was in his first two seasons. If you want to say that Derrick hasn't improved enough to be a BE-caliber starting PG, I'd give you that, but he has definitely improved.

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU is 1-0 against genuine competition with STJ playing significant minutes. STJ was the difference.

I agree, though I would also say Georgetown (certainly their fans) think this is a down year for them.  Good win for our boys, needed it badly, but I'm not about to annoint G'Town as an upper echelon team.  They struggle just like we do. 

As my son and I watched the last few minutes of regulation he made a good point I thought.  He said G'Town is chewing up clock, playing not to lose.  They were fortunate on the one play where we played great defense until the last 2 seconds in which we gave them a dunk.  Didn't work out so well of them in some of the other possessions. 

Our next game will be more than interesting.  Nova has been a bit of hit or miss in terms of quality of play, though the wins keep coming until yesterday.  Which Nova and MU teams show up? 

[keefe]

Surprises to the downside:
1. McKay leaves, we get nothing from him.
2. Duane Wilson hurt, we get nothing from him.
3. Steve Taylor Jr's injury lingers, we get nothing from him until last night.

Mild surprises to the downside:
1. No improvement from Chris
2. No improvement from Derrick
3. No improvement from Davante, and a serious lack of focus earlier which had him shooting poorly even from the (automatic) foul line
4. Jamil, same as Davante
5. No improvement from Juan.
6. Almost nothing from JJJ, our highest rated recruit in a very long time.

Mild surprises to the upside:
1.Deonte has more game and potential than I expected.

Surprises to the upside:
1. John Dawson is much better than I expected a non top 150 guy from basketball poor New Mexico to be
2. Jake, though limited, is way better than the walk on he was last year.

Because the downside surprises have solidly outweighed the upside ones, you can add that Buzz has struggled to find the right combinations - something he's normally very good at. Put it all together and it spells disappointment.

Lenny

You forgot several other factors that have shaped this season:

- The Axis of Evil: Scott Pilarz-Larry Williams and the SLU End Game Theory
- Kool Aid: Refreshing Palate Cleanser or Bitter Hemlock?
- Chico's Exile: 40 Days and 40 Nights of Darkness
- Mike Hunt: Lazy Has Been or Avant-Garde Sartorial Genius?
- Christopher Columbo: Homage to Exploration or The Return of Hoopaloop?
- Internet Bullying: Sublimation or Genuine Outrage?
- Internet Braggadocio: Legitimate Insight or Old Soldier on the Porch Syndrome?
- FFP: Enlightened Progressivism or Shameless, Cynical Fund Raising?
- The Non-Alum: Bona Fide Fan or Unworthy Carpet Bagger?
- Operation Overlord: When did it really begin?
- Lock Down Defender: Game Winning Necessity or Red Herring?
- Mr. Gardner: Where does fit end and fat begin?
- Mr. Otule: The difference between perception and depth perception
- Mr. McKay: What did he know about this season and when did he know it?
- Vander Blue: Is the Grass Greener?
- Val Ackerman: Furniture or Web Site?
- Israeli Army Chicks: Suitable for the Work Place?

[Archies Bat]

Nice list soldier!

[Dawson Rental]

Surprises to the downside:
1. McKay leaves, we get nothing from him.
2. Duane Wilson hurt, we get nothing from him.
3. Steve Taylor Jr's injury lingers, we get nothing from him until last night.

Mild surprises to the downside:
1. No improvement from Chris
2. No improvement from Derrick
3. No improvement from Davante, and a serious lack of focus earlier which had him shooting poorly even from the (automatic) foul line
4. Jamil, same as Davante
5. No improvement from Juan.
6. Almost nothing from JJJ, our highest rated recruit in a very long time.

Mild surprises to the upside:
1.Deonte has more game and potential than I expected.

Surprises to the upside:
1. John Dawson is much better than I expected a non top 150 guy from basketball poor New Mexico to be
2. Jake, though limited, is way better than the walk on he was last year.

Because the downside surprises have solidly outweighed the upside ones, you can add that Buzz has struggled to find the right combinations - something he's normally very good at. Put it all together and it spells disappointment.

The McKay and Steve Taylor, Jr. surprises had a synergy to them that made them tougher to deal with together than they would have been to handle on their own.

[Dawson Rental]

I agree, though I would also say Georgetown (certainly their fans) think this is a down year for them.  Good win for our boys, needed it badly, but I'm not about to annoint G'Town as an upper echelon team.  They struggle just like we do. 

As my son and I watched the last few minutes of regulation he made a good point I thought.  He said G'Town is chewing up clock, playing not to lose.  They were fortunate on the one play where we played great defense until the last 2 seconds in which we gave them a dunk.  Didn't work out so well of them in some of the other possessions. 

Our next game will be more than interesting.  Nova has been a bit of hit or miss in terms of quality of play, though the wins keep coming until yesterday.  Which Nova and MU teams show up? 

Interesting comment in view of Georgetown's reputation for blowing leads late in games. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

I don't think anyone has ever been unfairly critical of Wilson. I think he is the starter because of circumstance. H was likely going to play 15 with Duane playing the other 25 (Buzz said so directly when talking about Duane's injury.) From what I have seen from 2,000 miles away Derrick seems like a great guy and represents our university superbly. But he is a liability as a starting 1 in the Big East and our record reflects that.

And people cite his lock down defense and yet his primary's offense has often been a major factor in our defeats. There is no such thing as a lock down defender for the first 30 minutes. Jimmy Butler plays lock down defense for 48 (or 60) minutes. If he played lock down defense for 36 minutes he likely would not have a reputation for being a lock down defender.

I think we will have to agree to disagree with the unfair criticism aspect. 

It is absolutely unfair to single out a single player as THE reason the team lost a game (or 8 games) because it is a team sport.  If everybody else shot 100%, had zero turnovers and didn't let the guy they were guarding score any, then maybe you'd have an argument.  That's not the way it goes...too many variables.  Is he A reason for our struggles so far this year...sure.  The biggest reason...ok.  Just not the only reason. 

That's all from me on the subject.  I am sick of reading about it and sick of perpetuating it. 

Looking forward to seeing if the team truly turned a corner or merely beat a wounded opponent.

[swoopem]

Lenny

You forgot several other factors that have shaped this season:

- The Axis of Evil: Scott Pilarz-Larry Williams and the SLU End Game Theory
- Kool Aid: Refreshing Palate Cleanser or Bitter Hemlock?
- Chico's Exile: 40 Days and 40 Nights of Darkness
- Mike Hunt: Lazy Has Been or Avant-Garde Sartorial Genius?
- Christopher Columbo: Homage to Exploration or The Return of Hoopaloop?
- Internet Bullying: Sublimation or Genuine Outrage?
- Internet Braggadocio: Legitimate Insight or Old Soldier on the Porch Syndrome?
- FFP: Enlightened Progressivism or Shameless, Cynical Fund Raising?
- The Non-Alum: Bona Fide Fan or Unworthy Carpet Bagger?
- Operation Overlord: When did it really begin?
- Lock Down Defender: Game Winning Necessity or Red Herring?
- Mr. Gardner: Where does fit end and fat begin?
- Mr. Otule: The difference between perception and depth perception
- Mr. McKay: What did he know about this season and when did he know it?
- Vander Blue: Is the Grass Greener?
- Val Ackerman: Furniture or Web Site?
- Israeli Army Chicks: Suitable for the Work Place?

Dude, you crack me up. Thanks for the midday laugh

[Nevada233]

Now this I can agree with.  Honestly, I am just fed up with the bashing that's come along with a disappointing season to date and incorrectly interpreted your post as more of the same.  I thought Dawson's defense was solid yesterday.

His fourth foul.. Mayo Overplayed his man.. which led to him getting a clear shot at the basket....

the foul at the half was a bad call... for the player he didnt do anything... to rivera...

[keefe]

I think we will have to agree to disagree with the unfair criticism aspect. 

It is absolutely unfair to single out a single player as THE reason the team lost a game (or 8 games) because it is a team sport.  If everybody else shot 100%, had zero turnovers and didn't let the guy they were guarding score any, then maybe you'd have an argument.  That's not the way it goes...too many variables.  Is he A reason for our struggles so far this year...sure.  The biggest reason...ok.  Just not the only reason. 

That's all from me on the subject.  I am sick of reading about it and sick of perpetuating it. 

Looking forward to seeing if the team truly turned a corner or merely beat a wounded opponent.

Ok, I agree that there have been some unfair comments about Wilson this season. And there have been ridiculous things said about many players every season. I guess I meant to say I have not singled him out and I know others have cited him as one of many issues with this year's team. But, yes, some here have said he is THE reason this team has struggled and that is unfair.

[GooooMarquette]

The only point I'd disagree with is Derrick not improving. He's much more of an offensive threat than he was last season. This season he's increased his career point total by 160% and (believe it or not) has increased his FG% by nearly 9 points. Don't get me wrong, he's still a very limited offensive player but he's better than he was in his first two seasons. If you want to say that Derrick hasn't improved enough to be a BE-caliber starting PG, I'd give you that, but he has definitely improved.

Agree.  Derrick's upside is limited, but his offense is quite a bit better than it was last year, mostly in the last few games (more driving, more frequently taking the open shot).  A better description would be "Slow/limited improvement by Derrick."

I would also add Vander leaving as a surprise to the downside. Didn't happen right before orduring the season like the McKay, STJr or Duane issues, but it happened late enough that it was hard to fully recover from.  In fact, our "recovery" was giving the scholarship to Jake.  And while I agree that Jake overall has been a positive development, he certainly doesn't make up for the loss of Vander.

When you look at all the downsides compared to the upsides, it should be no wonder we're struggling.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Agree.  Derrick's upside is limited, but his offense is quite a bit better than it was last year, mostly in the last few games (more driving, more frequently taking the open shot).  A better description would be "Slow/limited improvement by Derrick."

I would also add Vander leaving as a surprise to the downside. Didn't happen right before orduring the season like the McKay, STJr or Duane issues, but it happened late enough that it was hard to fully recover from.  In fact, our "recovery" was giving the scholarship to Jake.  And while I agree that Jake overall has been a positive development, he certainly doesn't make up for the loss of Vander.

When you look at all the downsides compared to the upsides, it should be no wonder we're struggling.

Yeah Vander leaving without much time to replace him is the only thing I'd add to Lenny's list. Other than that, spot-on cogent analysis of our situation.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny

You forgot several other factors that have shaped this season:

- The Axis of Evil: Scott Pilarz-Larry Williams and the SLU End Game Theory
- Kool Aid: Refreshing Palate Cleanser or Bitter Hemlock?
- Chico's Exile: 40 Days and 40 Nights of Darkness
- Mike Hunt: Lazy Has Been or Avant-Garde Sartorial Genius?
- Christopher Columbo: Homage to Exploration or The Return of Hoopaloop?
- Internet Bullying: Sublimation or Genuine Outrage?
- Internet Braggadocio: Legitimate Insight or Old Soldier on the Porch Syndrome?
- FFP: Enlightened Progressivism or Shameless, Cynical Fund Raising?
- The Non-Alum: Bona Fide Fan or Unworthy Carpet Bagger?
- Operation Overlord: When did it really begin?
- Lock Down Defender: Game Winning Necessity or Red Herring?
- Mr. Gardner: Where does fit end and fat begin?
- Mr. Otule: The difference between perception and depth perception
- Mr. McKay: What did he know about this season and when did he know it?
- Vander Blue: Is the Grass Greener?
- Val Ackerman: Furniture or Web Site?
- Israeli Army Chicks: Suitable for the Work Place?

Crash-

Funniest post of the year. Read it three times and I'm still laughing as I post this. My wife is eying me with what I hope is bemusement but may well be genuine concern. I can't show her what I think is so hilarious because it would likely confirm her worst fears about me and my tenuous grip on reality/my own sanity. Keep it coming.

[MerrittsMustache]

Said Dawson should* get 25-30 per game here on out. Still not confident Buzz will all of a sudden give him that as he's been so damn stubborn in giving Dawson minutes this far. I will wager this - from this point forward Dawson will average more points and assists per 40 minutes than Derrick. 3 month hiatus for loser?

I'd be willing to add TOs per 40 to the mix as well. That said, extrapolating out would be tough since Dawson's minutes could be limited (i.e. if he plays just 10 minutes/game but averages 3 points, that would be 12 pts per 40 - admittedly, the same goes for TOs).

If you're good with that, I'm good. If Dawson averages more points/40, asts/40 and fewer TO/40 than Derrick, I'll take a 3-month break. If he doesn't do all 3, you take the break (barring either player missing 2+ games with an injury).

[tower912]

Two stat lines:   Player 1: 40 minutes, 13 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists.    Needs to be benched.
                        Player 2:  31 minutes, 12 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists.   Needs to be canonized. 

[keefe]

Two stat lines:   Player 1: 40 minutes, 13 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists.    Needs to be benched.
                        Player 2:  31 minutes, 12 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists.   Needs to be canonized. 

You forgot to include the stats for each of the other players so we can gauge play making efficacy. Also, somewhat important is game result: The Thrill of Victory or The Agony of Defeat?