John Dawson Time...

[BallBoy]

So I'm fine with the Derrick needs to play less camp, but that camp needs to come up with an option that isn't play Dawson

100% agree with this statement

[BallBoy]

Dawson did nothing to initiate the offense in those games.  Why do you think Jamil plays the point when Dawson is in the game?  

You have obviously developed your POV on the PG sitiuation, and I can respect that, but I think you are seeing what you want to see to justify that POV.  In an earlier game you imagined some offensive explosion that occured during a stint when Dawson was in the game where the lead magically grew by 10 points when Dawson was in.  That simply didn't happen.  The lead grew by 1.  You are not objectively watching the games.  You are, for lack of a better term, making sh*t up.  That's why not very many people agree with you.

I agree with this 100% and agree 200% with the bolded comment.  I loved the explosive run which turned out to be when D Wilson was in the game for all but 1pt of the margin. 

[keefe]

Niv Berkowitz and Mbao were scholarship players....

Niv Berkowitz. Any word on where he went after leaving Marquette?

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Anybody know why Dawson even selected Marquette? If I recall, Derrick Wilson was here and Buzz had pretty much made it clear he would be the starting PG. Duane Wilson had already committed. I never understood what was the attraction for Dawson. Couldn't have been the weather!

[NersEllenson]

You really don't watch the games.  Let's take the Samford game (game against less talented players).  Dawson gets into the game and brings the ball up the court.  He dribbles to about five feet from his teammate (believe it was JJJ).  He proceeds to casually and tentatively underarm toss the ball towards JJJ, nearly throwing the ball away.  JJJ had to run towards the side line to get it.  Luckily, he got there.  This was against no pressure defense.  For the next several plays, JWilson brought the ball up the court and Dawson played off ball until the next dead ball and he was pulled.
 

I can probably get you about 10 examples of Derrick Wilson doing the exact thing you reference above...recall many poor inbounds passes from Derrick, a 5 second call or two, and some throwaway turnovers under no pressure at the top of the key.  If only Derrick would be pulled after 1 mistake.  

And yes, for the record, I watch the games closely, played the game extensively, and know that the team would not be any worse off if Dawson were playing 30 and Derrick 10.  The question is, would it be better?  That's what I'd like to find out.

[MU82]

Anybody know why Dawson even selected Marquette? If I recall, Derrick Wilson was here and Buzz had pretty much made it clear he would be the starting PG. Duane Wilson had already committed. I never understood what was the attraction for Dawson. Couldn't have been the weather!

Ummm ... Leon's Frozen Custard on South 27th?

[Nevada233]

Ummm ... Leon's Frozen Custard on South 27th?

Maybe the Broken Yolk restuarant or a free education. Because it couldnt be for playing time.

[mu03eng]

I can probably get you about 10 examples of Derrick Wilson doing the exact thing you reference above...recall many poor inbounds passes from Derrick, a 5 second call or two, and some throwaway turnovers under no pressure at the top of the key.  If only Derrick would be pulled after 1 mistake.  

And yes, for the record, I watch the games closely, played the game extensively, and know that the team would not be any worse off if Dawson were playing 30 and Derrick 10.  The question is, would it be better?  That's what I'd like to find out.

This is first an opinion stated as fact and an opinion that I don't share and I'm willing to bet a lot of people don't share it either, including seemingly Buzz.  Name one thing or one time Dawson has done ANYTHING better than Derrick?  Again this is not a defense of Derrick but the statement that Dawson isn't worse is just silly based on what I've seen.

[MerrittsMustache]

I can probably get you about 10 examples of Derrick Wilson doing the exact thing you reference above...recall many poor inbounds passes from Derrick, a 5 second call or two, and some throwaway turnovers under no pressure at the top of the key.  If only Derrick would be pulled after 1 mistake.  

And yes, for the record, I watch the games closely, played the game extensively, and know that the team would not be any worse off if Dawson were playing 30 and Derrick 10.  The question is, would it be better?  That's what I'd like to find out.

Do it. Provide 10 specific examples.

[GGGG]

I also like Derrick at the point but MU needs to do something to change the lineup. Why is buzz rewarding 2 players who abandoned the team in the summer/spring ? Realize Juan was in a bit of a different situation but jake was fully ready to take a major step down in competition. I find it hard to believe jake is beating out Todd and JJJ every day in practice. I would like to see that.

Jake was about to go off scholarship.  Can you blame him for looking at a graduate transfer?

[NersEllenson]

Do it. Provide 10 specific examples.

I don't have the time, nor the interest, to go back and watch all of the nauseating point guard play I've seen from Derrick this year.  However, I will be sure to blow up your inbox moving forward every time Derrick makes a stupid turnover.  I'd estimate you'll get at least 1 e-mail from me every other game at minimum...

[tower912]

If Derrick is only making one stupid turnover every other game, then you have absolutely no leg to stand on. 

[NersEllenson]

This is first an opinion stated as fact and an opinion that I don't share and I'm willing to bet a lot of people don't share it either, including seemingly Buzz.  Name one thing or one time Dawson has done ANYTHING better than Derrick?  Again this is not a defense of Derrick but the statement that Dawson isn't worse is just silly based on what I've seen.

Fair enough - it is a fact, in my opinion...but yes, an opinion as are everybody's points on this board.  The primary thing Dawson does better than Derrick is push the ball in transition, see the floor better, and create legitimate easy scoring opportunities for the people he assists...namely Gardner.  Derrick has 3 of his 50 assists for the year to our leading scorer and most talented offensive performer.  It's a joke.

It blows my mind that some here are so convinced that our PG play could get worse if we moved to Dawson - we have a large sample size of what it is with Derrick at the helm, and its awful.  All of his supporters are grasping at straws trying to find ANYTHING they can to justify why he's on the floor.

Buzz is just a die hard loyal guy to his vets, and that's it...it's the way he rolls.  Anyone really think Juan and Jake are better than Burton and JJJ??  Who's third on the team in minutes?  Jake - just 3 minutes behind Jamil and 53 minutes behind Derrick.

I LOVE Buzz as much as any fan here, yet that does not mean I'm going to agree with him 100% of the time.  The fact he moved Jamil to the point, and moved Derrick to the paint/post was ludicrous.  You simply are moving Derrick's defender into an area closer to be able to help off of Derrick onto Devante.

If you have to resort to moving your PG to the paint area so that the opposition will guard him - that says all you need to know about how ineffective said PG is.

[GGGG]

Buzz is just a die hard loyal guy to his vets, and that's it...it's the way he rolls.  Anyone really think Juan and Jake are better than Burton and JJJ?? 

Is Juan better than Deonte?  No.  That is probably why Deonte's minutes have grown, and Juan's have shrunk, as the year has gone on.  Buzz is giving him more minutes because he has earned them.

Is Jake better than JJJ?  JJJ definitely has more potential, but Jake has done more in the games against quality competition than JJJ has.  JJJ was non-existent against Wisconsin, New Mexico, Creighton and George Washington.  Jake hasn't been stellar in a couple of these games either, but he played very well v. New Mexico and GW.  JJJ isn't getting more minutes because he has yet to earn them when it matters most.

You are trying to build a parallel here with Derrick and Dawson that simply doesn't exist.  Buzz isn't playing Derrick out of loyalty or because he's a veteran.  He's playing him because he is the best option.  Dawson hasn't earned anything.

[NavinRJohnson]

I'd estimate you'll get at least 1 e-mail from me every other game at minimum...

You can sign me up for that right now. .5 stupid turnovers per game? What is Buzz thinking putting him out there?

[NersEllenson]

Is Juan better than Deonte?  No.  That is probably why Deonte's minutes have grown, and Juan's have shrunk, as the year has gone on.  Buzz is giving him more minutes because he has earned them.

Is Jake better than JJJ?  JJJ definitely has more potential, but Jake has done more in the games against quality competition than JJJ has.  JJJ was non-existent against Wisconsin, New Mexico, Creighton and George Washington.  Jake hasn't been stellar in a couple of these games either, but he played very well v. New Mexico and GW.  JJJ isn't getting more minutes because he has yet to earn them when it matters most.

You are trying to build a parallel here with Derrick and Dawson that simply doesn't exist.  Buzz isn't playing Derrick out of loyalty or because he's a veteran.  He's playing him because he is the best option.  Dawson hasn't earned anything.

Fair point Sultan.  Yet, all I'm going to say is Dawson never should have been given a scholarship if he's THAT much worse than what Derrick Wilson is right now.  Personally, I wish Buzz would just find out for real, and put Dawson in a couple of conference games for 30 minutes and at least get the benchmark diagnostic of what it looks like with Dawson running the show in a game.

[NersEllenson]

You can sign me up for that right now. .5 stupid turnovers per game? What is Buzz thinking putting him out there?

And if only Buzz would yank Derrick every time he makes one of his stupid turnovers.  A stupid turnover by definition is one that essentially is an unforced error, that occurs while not trying to make something happen....in other words a turnover that never should happen.

I'd much rather have a playmaking point guard such as Junior Cadougan, who commits 3 turnovers a game as a result of forcing the action and putting pressure on a defense, than a PG who rarely forces the action, and is simply a ball protector.  That is what a back PG is....a ball protector....someone who won't lose the game for you in their 10 minutes of PT, but certainly aren't good enough to help you win games.

Which brings me to another question:  What is Derrick doing to help this team win games?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Fair enough - it is a fact, in my opinion...but yes, an opinion as are everybody's points on this board.  The primary thing Dawson does better than Derrick is push the ball in transition, see the floor better, and create legitimate easy scoring opportunities for the people he assists...namely Gardner.  Derrick has 3 of his 50 assists for the year to our leading scorer and most talented offensive performer.  It's a joke.

It blows my mind that some here are so convinced that our PG play could get worse if we moved to Dawson - we have a large sample size of what it is with Derrick at the helm, and its awful.  All of his supporters are grasping at straws trying to find ANYTHING they can to justify why he's on the floor.

Buzz is just a die hard loyal guy to his vets, and that's it...it's the way he rolls.  Anyone really think Juan and Jake are better than Burton and JJJ??  Who's third on the team in minutes?  Jake - just 3 minutes behind Jamil and 53 minutes behind Derrick.

I LOVE Buzz as much as any fan here, yet that does not mean I'm going to agree with him 100% of the time.  The fact he moved Jamil to the point, and moved Derrick to the paint/post was ludicrous.  You simply are moving Derrick's defender into an area closer to be able to help off of Derrick onto Devante.

If you have to resort to moving your PG to the paint area so that the opposition will guard him - that says all you need to know about how ineffective said PG is.

If Buzz Williams is playing Derrick Williams 35 minutes per night simply out of loyalty rather than actual performance in practice and games, he should be fired.

[MU82]

Personally, I wish Buzz would just find out for real, and put Dawson in a couple of conference games for 30 minutes and at least get the benchmark diagnostic of what it looks like with Dawson running the show in a game.

For the zillionth time, coaches simply don't think like this.

One game into a 18-game conference schedule, they don't say: "Player A hasn't done anything in practices or in games to earn minutes but I'm gonna give Player A 75% of the p.t. in a conference game anyway because, hell, things can't get any worse."

Maybe coaches should think that way because, I don't know, it would placate some fans? But I'm just telling you the reality of it. They don't do it. They play the players they think gives them the best chance to win each game.

The exception might be some coaches would use younger players more in the last few games of a "lost season." But there is no way that you, me or the Pope could convince Buzz today, with 17 league games and the BET to come, that this is a lost season. And even if we're trending toward a .500 finish or worse, Buzz still probably won't think that way in March because he'll think we can win the BET.

Buzz will make the move from Derrick to Dawson (or give Jamil more PG time or whatever) if he thinks it will help the team -- just as Sultan pointed out that Deonte already is taking time away from Juan because Buzz believes that is the way to help the team win.

However, Buzz won't make such moves because, "screw it, it can't get any worse." Because he, like pretty much every other coach out there, isn't wired to think that way.

[MerrittsMustache]

And if only Buzz would yank Derrick every time he makes one of his stupid turnovers.  A stupid turnover by definition is one that essentially is an unforced error, that occurs while not trying to make something happen....in other words a turnover that never should happen.

I'd much rather have a playmaking point guard such as Junior Cadougan, who commits 3 turnovers a game as a result of forcing the action and putting pressure on a defense, than a PG who rarely forces the action, and is simply a ball protector.  That is what a back PG is....a ball protector....someone who won't lose the game for you in their 10 minutes of PT, but certainly aren't good enough to help you win games.

Which brings me to another question:  What is Derrick doing to help this team win games?

Earlier in the season, you stated that your ideal PG would average no more than 2 TOs per game.

By the way, where did the "3 assists to Gardner" stat come from? Not questioning it. Just curious.

[Nevada233]

If Buzz Williams is playing Derrick Williams 35 minutes per night simply out of loyalty rather than actual performance in practice and games, he should be fired.

At the end of the day Derrick requires no defender and continues to be a non factor so teams will continue to leave him Wide Open and pack the paint.
The formula on the scouting report has worked and if I played Marquette id double Gardner all game and leave him open until he proved he can make a shot... Depaul will do the same thing watch.


And Marquette in the grand scheme of things will continue to look the same way its looking now. Unless something changes. Because Ball st Grambling or Southern arent on the schedule anymore for this year.

Is "DNP Dawson" the Answer nobody knows... But hey continute getting your Marquette education and traveling the world young man your day will come sooner or later.  

[NersEllenson]

Earlier in the season, you stated that your ideal PG would average no more than 2 TOs per game.

By the way, where did the "3 assists to Gardner" stat come from? Not questioning it. Just curious.

Ideally, yes, my ideal PG wouldn't turn the ball over more than twice per game - but I'd take a guy who turns it 3 times per game, scores 9-10ppg, assists 5 times per game, and shoots better than 11% from three, 55% from the FT line.  Oh, but let me guess, you'll now mention Dawson's stats - I don't put a lot of stock in the stats a player compiles when they are getting 3 minute stints of action - that isn't relevant sample size to evaluate a player.

Haven't seen Sugar's latest player efficiency ratings, but I'd bet the house that Derrick still is at the bottom of the team and by a wide margin - yet he plays the most minutes on the team??

The 3 assist stat was mentioned on the Scout board - there are many there who are equally frustrated and annoyed with the team under Derrick's direction. 

So, I'll relax on the topic and stand by my earlier statement - If nothing changes, nothing changes.  We aren't improving, things aren't getting better - we just got the doors blown off by Creighton in our worst loss of the season.  If anything, I sure hope Buzz moves Jamil to the point for 25 minutes a game and gives his other minutes to Burton and then JJJ.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Earlier in the season, you stated that your ideal PG would average no more than 2 TOs per game.

By the way, where did the "3 assists to Gardner" stat come from? Not questioning it. Just curious.

Actually, here is what Ners wants from MU's PG.

If Derrick can average in conference play, 8-10ppg, 5 assists, and limit TO's to 2 per game - I'd be very happy..and would get off his case.

[mu03eng]

It blows my mind that some here are so convinced that our PG play could get worse if we moved to Dawson - we have a large sample size of what it is with Derrick at the helm, and its awful.  All of his supporters are grasping at straws trying to find ANYTHING they can to justify why he's on the floor.

Show me one person who here is grasping at straws to justify Derrick?  Not one person is advocating Derrick, just resisting Dawson.  It feels weird having to go over this again for the 3rd time.

Buzz is just a die hard loyal guy to his vets, and that's it...it's the way he rolls.  Anyone really think Juan and Jake are better than Burton and JJJ??  Who's third on the team in minutes?  Jake - just 3 minutes behind Jamil and 53 minutes behind Derrick.

Let me see if I understand your point of view completely.  Buzz Williams, a head coach at a division 1 school who has gone to the Sweet Sixteen the last 3 years is playing a player he knows to be inferior to others on the roster.  He is also playing that said player more than any other player on his roster and the only reason he is not playing other players is loyalty?  Dawson out performs Derrick in practice but Buzz is loyal.  Is this your contention?

Look at their season statistics

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2013-14/stats/season_stats_final.pdf

Just to break it down, Dawson against inferior opponents(Derrick's numbers include planning in our 6 losses), Dawson is worse in just about every statistical category

min     fg %   3fg%   ft off rb def rb  a     to      stl   off rb/min   def rb/min   a/min   to/min   stl/min 410   0.368   0.111   0.563   15   47   53   19   14   0.036585366   0.114634146   0.129268293   0.046341463   0.034146341 83   0.167   0.125   0.5   0   10   12   4   2   0   0.120481928   0.144578313   0.048192771   0.024096386 (327.00)   (0.20)   0.01    (0.06)   (15.00)   (37.00)   (41.00)   (15.00)   (12.00)   (0.04)   0.01    0.02    (0.002)   (0.01)

His 3fg% is higher because he attempted one less 3, his defensive rebounding is slightly better(and no offensive rebounding whatsoever) and his assists per minute are slightly higher(but he turns it over at least as much as Derrick and is much weaker on steals).  Everything else he is statistically worse at

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't put a lot of stock in the stats a player compiles when they are getting 3 minute stints of action - that isn't relevant sample size to evaluate a player.

Yet, you are perfectly comfortable doing it yourself, since we all know' "it couldn't possibly get any worse."