John Dawson Time...

[mu03eng]

Dawson is a scholarship player. Flood is not.

Niv Berkowitz and Mbao were scholarship players....doesn't mean squat

[ATL MU Warrior]

Bingo. 

There is no in-game evidence because he's never been given a real chance to play.  Practice, despite being the best replicator, cannot perfectly simulate in-game situations.

If Dawson isn't BE caliber, then why is he here?  If he has BE potential, let's let that potential be realized.

Bad teams can afford to be risky.  We are a bad team.  Let's roll the dice. We have nothing to lose.

Come on.  We are not a bad team.  We are certainly not a great team either but we are NOT a bad team.

Kind of middle of the road...

[Eldon]

Niv Berkowitz and Mbao were scholarship players....doesn't mean squat

Correct. My "dawson hope" is contingent upon him actually being a true BE prospect.

I was responding to guns and his attempt to push the play-dawson-since-theres-uncertainty argument to the extreme. He is saying "well, why not play flood? After all, who knows, right? Hell, play me!" Im saying "no, thats foolish." There is a marked difference between dawson and flood.  We expended scarce resources recruiting Dawson. Flood is a walk-on.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Correct. My "dawson hope" is contingent upon him actually being a true BE prospect.

I was responding to guns and his attempt to push the play-dawson-since-theres-uncertainty argument to the extreme. He is saying "well, why not play flood? After all, who knows, right? Hell, play me!" Im saying "no, thats foolish." There is a marked difference between dawson and flood.  We expended scarce resources recruiting Dawson. Flood is a walk-on.

You're point is correct, there is an assumption that Dawson has some abilities.

However, "I don't think it can get any worse" isn't a logical statement in almost any scenario in life, and I don't think it's correct when referring to playing time for division 1 players.

There have been a lot of D1 prospects worse than Derrick Wilson. I assume the Head Coach has a good handle on Dawson's abilities.

[NersEllenson]

You're point is correct, there is an assumption that Dawson has some abilities.

However, "I don't think it can get any worse" isn't a logical statement in almost any scenario in life, and I don't think it's correct when referring to playing time for division 1 players.

There have been a lot of D1 prospects worse than Derrick Wilson. I assume the Head Coach has a good handle on Dawson's abilities.

How do you reconcile Gardner's regression?  Jamil Wilson's lack of taking the next step?  Mayo being the same player he's been?  Juan Anderson being the same player he's been?

Are none of these guys improving - or is it possible that they all suffer due to our starting PG that plays the most minutes - 30 minutes per game - being totally ineffective and a complete afterthought defensively for the opposition?

Seriously - what high major abilities do you think Derrick Wilson has?  And don't cite he doesn't turn the ball over - because no team has pressured MU full court all year.  He has 3 assists FOR THE YEAR to Gardner (the team's leading scorer) in 14 games...

[MerrittsMustache]

How do you reconcile Gardner's regression?  Jamil Wilson's lack of taking the next step?  Mayo being the same player he's been?  Juan Anderson being the same player he's been?

Gardner has a bad attitude this season and supposedly isn't working hard on his game. Jamil, Mayo and Juan have all hit their ceilings.

How's that?

[mu03eng]

How do you reconcile Gardner's regression?  Jamil Wilson's lack of taking the next step?  Mayo being the same player he's been?  Juan Anderson being the same player he's been?

Are none of these guys improving - or is it possible that they all suffer due to our starting PG that plays the most minutes - 30 minutes per game - being totally ineffective and a complete afterthought defensively for the opposition?

Seriously - what high major abilities do you think Derrick Wilson has?  And don't cite he doesn't turn the ball over - because no team has pressured MU full court all year.  He has 3 assists FOR THE YEAR to Gardner (the team's leading scorer) in 14 games...

Do any of those players go on a tear when Wilson is on the bench?  Do any of those players go on a tear when Dawson played his limited minutes?

[NersEllenson]

Gardner has a bad attitude this season and supposedly isn't working hard on his game. Jamil, Mayo and Juan have all hit their ceilings.

How's that?

Wonder why all of a sudden in his senior year, Gardner has developed a bad attitude that wasn't present in previous years?

But please, for once, please tell me why you think Derrick Wilson should be getting 30 minutes at the point for this team?  Do you like being 0-6 against Top 75 teams?  Do you like having a PG who shoots 11% from 3pt line?  Do you like a PG who has 3 assists in 14 games to our leading scorer and post player?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How do you reconcile Gardner's regression?  Jamil Wilson's lack of taking the next step?  Mayo being the same player he's been?  Juan Anderson being the same player he's been?

Are none of these guys improving - or is it possible that they all suffer due to our starting PG that plays the most minutes - 30 minutes per game - being totally ineffective and a complete afterthought defensively for the opposition?

Seriously - what high major abilities do you think Derrick Wilson has?  And don't cite he doesn't turn the ball over - because no team has pressured MU full court all year.  He has 3 assists FOR THE YEAR to Gardner (the team's leading scorer) in 14 games...

Few things:

#1 What were Gardner's numbers like last season when playing with Wilson vs Cadougan? Do we know that?

#2 Wilson might be one of the worst guards in the history of college basketball (hyperbole), but again, do you think Buzz Williams is going to pin his career on "I don't think it can get any worse"? Buzz is a calculated guy. I don't think he's gonna do that.

#3 Do you think Dawson outplays Wilson in practice? If Wilson is that bad, shouldn't Dawson make him look terrible in all of the drills and scrimmages?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wonder why all of a sudden in his senior year, Gardner has developed a bad attitude that wasn't present in previous years?

But please, for once, please tell me why you think Derrick Wilson should be getting 30 minutes at the point for this team?  Do you like being 0-6 against Top 75 teams?  Do you like having a PG who shoots 11% from 3pt line?  Do you like a PG who has 3 assists in 14 games to our leading scorer and post player?

You're mixing together 2 things again.

Nobody has claimed that Derrick Wilson should play 30min. Nobody has even claimed that Derrick is "good" in this thread.

I don't think Derrick should play 30min per night. I don't think Derrick is very good.

HOWEVER, I also don't think Buzz should play Dawson "just because". Buzz should play the best players who perform in practice and in games. When Dawson earns his minutes, he'll get his minutes.

EDIT: ALSO DID YOU JUST F-ING CLAIM THAT GARDNER'S ATTITUDE IS DERRICK WILSON'S FAULT? PLEASE TELL ME YOU DIDN'T JUST DO THAT.

[Lennys Tap]

How do you reconcile Gardner's regression?  Jamil Wilson's lack of taking the next step?  Mayo being the same player he's been?  Juan Anderson being the same player he's been?

Are none of these guys improving - or is it possible that they all suffer due to our starting PG that plays the most minutes - 30 minutes per game - being totally ineffective and a complete afterthought defensively for the opposition?

Seriously - what high major abilities do you think Derrick Wilson has?  And don't cite he doesn't turn the ball over - because no team has pressured MU full court all year.  He has 3 assists FOR THE YEAR to Gardner (the team's leading scorer) in 14 games...

So, in addition to his own shortcomings Derrick has destroyed Gardner's game and held back Jamil's and Juan's? Probably the reason Davante and Jamil can't shoot free throws anymore, too. Bet if Dawson was running the point they'd be "automatic".

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

He has 3 assists FOR THE YEAR to Gardner (the team's leading scorer) in 14 games...

I agree with very little you have to say about DeWil, but dear lord that is telling.  I agree that it is time to try other alternatives - I just think that other alternative is Jamil at the point for 25 minutes a game.  I think it is time to make that change.  If Dawson were able to split minutes at PG, he would.

[NersEllenson]

Look, Derrick has been in the program for almost 3 years, and has been given EVERY opportunity to show and prove that he's the best option for running the point for this team.  He leads the team in minutes by 50 minutes over the next closest guy.  He isn't improving.  The team isn't improving.  He isn't the answer in the future.  The sample size is large enough to know - he is who we thought he was - a solid backup caliber point guard.

It does a disservice to the team, and Dawson, to not at least make a change for a few games and see what happens.  If Dawson is going to be a future contributor in this program, let's find out now.  There are plenty of freshman who are capable of playing, and playing solidly as freshman. What's the downside - we aren't competitive against the top teams as it is...

[tower912]

Why has there been no traction on the idea of starting Jamil at the point, some combination of JJJ/Todd/Jake, and then Juan (Deonte) and CO?  Dawson isn't ready.  I like the kid, but he couldn't get the team into its offense against IUPUI or Samford, for goodness sake.   If you are hellbent on continuing to tear down DeWilson, a PRODUCTIVE (as opposed to surrendering) thought could be Jamil and multiple guards, making sure one can guard the point.   Shoot, start all 3.    Starting Dawson = giving up . 

[MauraDay]

I watched the IUPUI and Samford games.   It could get a lot worse.  Marcus Jackson, Niv Berkowitz, Joe Chapman bad.   Losing to Louisville by 40 because they kept pressing up 30 bad.  

We lost by 47 (99-52) to Louisville in that game. I was there. Yes, that would be worse.

[NersEllenson]

Why has there been no traction on the idea of starting Jamil at the point, some combination of JJJ/Todd/Jake, and then Juan (Deonte) and CO?  Dawson isn't ready.  I like the kid, but he couldn't get the team into its offense against IUPUI or Samford, for goodness sake.   If you are hellbent on continuing to tear down DeWilson, a PRODUCTIVE (as opposed to surrendering) thought could be Jamil and multiple guards, making sure one can guard the point.   Shoot, start all 3.    Starting Dawson = giving up . 

I'd gladly take Jamil at the point for 25-30 minutes.  But the statement Dawson couldn't get the team into its offense against IUPUI or Samford is simply false.  I would take a 6 month hiatus from Scoop if Dawson were given the starting position (for just 3 games) and 25-30 minutes a game, and the team performed worse - which we'd measure by margin of defeat (since its a forgone conclusion we'd lose every game against Top 75 teams we'd play as we've already done with Derrick at the point), and since starting Dawson would equal giving up...

[GooooMarquette]

Why has there been no traction on the idea of starting Jamil at the point, some combination of JJJ/Todd/Jake, and then Juan (Deonte) and CO?  Dawson isn't ready.  I like the kid, but he couldn't get the team into its offense against IUPUI or Samford, for goodness sake.   If you are hellbent on continuing to tear down DeWilson, a PRODUCTIVE (as opposed to surrendering) thought could be Jamil and multiple guards, making sure one can guard the point.   Shoot, start all 3.    Starting Dawson = giving up .  

Agree with you on Dawson.  If he was the answer this season, he'd have proven it to Buzz in practice by now.  He may have a greater upside than Derrick, but if he was ready now, he'd be playing.

Not so sure Jamil is the answer at point either, though.  One of the big complaints about Derrick is that you don't want a starting PG who can't shoot FTs.  For the record, he's shooting 56.3% from the line this year...while Jamil is shooting even worse at 51.4%.  And he turns it over more even though he (currently) handles the ball less.  Not exactly what you want from a starting PG.

I think Buzz continues to start Derrick because Derrick is simply the best option.

[tower912]

I agree that Derrick is the best option.   I think he is the second best option, too.   Jamil is next.   Then Dawson.    If there is to be change to the line-up, it should be at the 2 and the 3.   Maybe Todd and JJJ for Jake and Juan.    Maybe just Deonte for Juan or Todd for Jake.  If there was offensive production from the other 4 spots, everyone would be praising Derrick, AS THEY DID LAST YEAR, for taking care of the ball, not making mistakes, and playing good defense. (Remember a year ago when many wanted Derrick in for Junior?  Unreal)    Unfortunately, Jake and Juan not being threats, and Chris being only a limited threat, there is a negative synergy.    In other words, IMO it is time for Buzz to make a line up change to generate offense from his starters.   Replacing Derrick would be my 4th or 5th option.   In buzz's words, neither Todd nor JJJ have beaten Jake out in practice.   That leaves Deonte for Juan.    

[Nevada233]

Look, Derrick has been in the program for almost 3 years, and has been given EVERY opportunity to show and prove that he's the best option for running the point for this team.  He leads the team in minutes by 50 minutes over the next closest guy.  He isn't improving.  The team isn't improving.  He isn't the answer in the future.  The sample size is large enough to know - he is who we thought he was - a solid backup caliber point guard.

It does a disservice to the team, and Dawson, to not at least make a change for a few games and see what happens.  If Dawson is going to be a future contributor in this program, let's find out now.  There are plenty of freshman who are capable of playing, and playing solidly as freshman. What's the downside - we aren't competitive against the top teams as it is...

Ners are you related to Dawson.... Last time I mentioned he should play I got asked the same thing. Maybe I should ask you the same.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'd gladly take Jamil at the point for 25-30 minutes.  But the statement Dawson couldn't get the team into its offense against IUPUI or Samford is simply false.  I would take a 6 month hiatus from Scoop if Dawson were given the starting position (for just 3 games) and 25-30 minutes a game, and the team performed worse - which we'd measure by margin of defeat (since its a forgone conclusion we'd lose every game against Top 75 teams we'd play as we've already done with Derrick at the point), and since starting Dawson would equal giving up...

Dawson did nothing to initiate the offense in those games.  Why do you think Jamil plays the point when Dawson is in the game?  

You have obviously developed your POV on the PG sitiuation, and I can respect that, but I think you are seeing what you want to see to justify that POV.  In an earlier game you imagined some offensive explosion that occured during a stint when Dawson was in the game where the lead magically grew by 10 points when Dawson was in.  That simply didn't happen.  The lead grew by 1.  You are not objectively watching the games.  You are, for lack of a better term, making sh*t up.  That's why not very many people agree with you.

[GooooMarquette]

tower - we're largely in agreement.  I'd rather see JJJ or Todd in place of Jake, before Deonte in place of Juan - mainly because of what Juan brings in terms of both boards and defense - but I could live with either change WAY before I could live with John in place of Derrick.

[AirPunches]

I also like Derrick at the point but MU needs to do something to change the lineup. Why is buzz rewarding 2 players who abandoned the team in the summer/spring ? Realize Juan was in a bit of a different situation but jake was fully ready to take a major step down in competition. I find it hard to believe jake is beating out Todd and JJJ every day in practice. I would like to see that.

[patso]

George Steinbrenner was the owner of the Yankees and he thought that if a player had a bad game or bad world series that he could rip him to shreds in the media. He thought sports was like running a shipbuilding factory where if a player did not succeed it was because of laziness or bad attitude. There is a strong psychological element to sports and players have slumps and hot streaks. In sports the coach has to encourage and motivate and hope that the players can overcome any inner fears. Not every player is Michael Jordan or Dwayne Wade in their temperament especially at the college level. Let the season play itself out. I for one have been impressed with Marquette every season in the  Kevin O'Neill era and in the Crean ( Hate to admit it) and Buzz years. There is always something by years end to relish and appreciate. I think this year will be no different.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I also like Derrick at the point but MU needs to do something to change the lineup. Why is buzz rewarding 2 players who abandoned the team in the summer/spring ? Realize Juan was in a bit of a different situation but jake was fully ready to take a major step down in competition. I find it hard to believe jake is beating out Todd and JJJ every day in practice. I would like to see that.

It's probably not happening the way you are thinking....from a physical perspective.  It's probably more about hitting all his defensive rotations/assignments, understanding the offense and consistently being where he is supposed to be and executing what Buzz wants from the position.  In short, the mental aspects of Buzz's system. 

I have a hard time imagining Jake winning any kind of physical matchup against the other two. 

[BallBoy]

Funny, because these are the exact qualities I see in Derrick Wilson, that I don't see in Dawson - Dawson is usually quite confident with the ball in his hands, and generally has gotten the ball to guys in good scoring position.

You really don't watch the games.  Let's take the Samford game (game against less talented players).  Dawson gets into the game and brings the ball up the court.  He dribbles to about five feet from his teammate (believe it was JJJ).  He proceeds to casually and tentatively underarm toss the ball towards JJJ, nearly throwing the ball away.  JJJ had to run towards the side line to get it.  Luckily, he got there.  This was against no pressure defense.  For the next several plays, JWilson brought the ball up the court and Dawson played off ball until the next dead ball and he was pulled.

Dawson isn't ready so it would get much worse.  The challenges MU faces is that no one has taken ownership and MU pays too much one-on-one.  J Wilson isn't scoring, Gardner does more complaining than scoring, Mayo is a black hole (see his game against Creighton), Thomas is probably our best scorer (unfortunately he isn't athletic enough to create his own shot), DWilson isn't shooting period, Burton hasn't figure out that he can be a monster, and JJJ just isn't consistent.