MU Blue: Dumbest decision ever??

[ChicosBailBonds]

I never cited Scoop posters as evidence that there was a good chance he'd be a 1st Rounder.

No, you didn't.  I did, however, cite a professional scouting service that predicted Vander would be a first rounder next year.    

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you want to state -- as a fact that everybody should accept -- that there was "a good chance" that he'd have been a first-rounder, you go right ahead.

Vander = Yesterday's News. I wish him well. Move on.

If it helps, I am happy to clarify more clearly.

According to Draft Express, a professional scouting service for the National Basketball Association, they believed there was a good chance he would have been a first rounder this year as they had him pegged there in their mock drafts.  Things can always change, but I was relying on their expertise.

[MerrittsMustache]

No, you didn't.  I did, however, cite a professional scouting service that predicted Vander would be a first rounder next year.    

Care to pull up that source and we can see who else is on the list as potential 1st Round picks? Or better yet, pull up a mock draft from the end of the 2011-12 season and we can see who ended up being a 1st Rounder in the 2012 Draft. There are plenty of players who have been viewed as 1st Round picks in March of one year who don't end up being 1st Round picks by June the next year.

Draft Express' final 2013 Mock Draft missed on 20% of their 1st Round picks.

[MU82]

If it helps, I am happy to clarify more clearly.

According to Draft Express, a professional scouting service for the National Basketball Association, they believed there was a good chance he would have been a first rounder this year as they had him pegged there in their mock drafts.  Things can always change, but I was relying on their expertise.

It helps this discussion, so thanks.

Wouldn't help Vander get drafted, though!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Care to pull up that source and we can see who else is on the list as potential 1st Round picks? Or better yet, pull up a mock draft from the end of the 2011-12 season and we can see who ended up being a 1st Rounder in the 2012 Draft. There are plenty of players who have been viewed as 1st Round picks in March of one year who don't end up being 1st Round picks by June the next year.

Draft Express' final 2013 Mock Draft missed on 20% of their 1st Round picks.

Yup, it happens...very tough business.  Though compared to all other mock drafts, they were the best in their field.  Thus why the NBA hires them to scout.  Like I said, times change, players can get hurt, needs of a club can change, all of that was admitted....yet they put their public guess out there and in their belief, at that time, Vander was going to be a first round pick.  No one is going to argue with you that things can change, least of all them.  It was there professional estimation for something they do every day for many years and they are at the top of their field.   The weatherman gets it only right a certain amount of time, too, do you ignore the weatherman?  If your financial planner misses on a stock, does that mean he's wrong all the time?  Yup, people and organizations are wrong and aren't 100% right....got that one settled.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yup, it happens...very tough business.  Though compared to all other mock drafts, they were the best in their field.  Thus why the NBA hires them to scout.  Like I said, times change, players can get hurt, needs of a club can change, all of that was admitted....yet they put their public guess out there and in their belief, at that time, Vander was going to be a first round pick.  No one is going to argue with you that things can change, least of all them.  It was there professional estimation for something they do every day for many years and they are at the top of their field.   The weatherman gets it only right a certain amount of time, too, do you ignore the weatherman?  If your financial planner misses on a stock, does that mean he's wrong all the time?  Yup, people and organizations are wrong and aren't 100% right....got that one settled.

I never said it was an exact science nor did I say that they were wrong all the time. We both know that, but, as is your MO, you chose to pretend that's what I said.

I was pointing out that they were only 80% correct on their 1st Round predictions right before the draft. If they mocked up a draft a year-out, I'm sure they were even less accurate, which means I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into that prediction. Similarly, I wouldn't put much stock into the weatherman's prediction if he gave the forecast for Christmas Day in early January.

[keefe]

I think that it's important to remember that Fran Fraschilla is an ex-coach and can be expected to bring an ex-coach's perspective, and he probably likes Buzz and thinks that Buzz got blind-sided by the decision.

To Keefe
Thanks a lot.  Now my son want an Israeli Defense Force action figure for Christmas and I only have two shopping days left to find one.  He wants the shower towel accessory pack, too.

Well, the good news is you know what path the boy is headed down. In addition to the Combat Shower Towel and Vibrating Back Scrubber Accessory Pack I would highly recommend you outfit your IDF Warrior with the Camo Thong and Corset package with matching Web Garter Belt and Nipple Tassels. An IDF Warrior deserves nothing less.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I never said it was an exact science nor did I say that they were wrong all the time. We both know that, but, as is your MO, you chose to pretend that's what I said.

I was pointing out that they were only 80% correct on their 1st Round predictions right before the draft. If they mocked up a draft a year-out, I'm sure they were even less accurate, which means I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into that prediction. Similarly, I wouldn't put much stock into the weatherman's prediction if he gave the forecast for Christmas Day in early January.

All fair points. 

[Tugg Speedman]

The key phrase is right now.  His Israeli team plays 22 regular season games from October to March 9th.  In 6 months he will probably make $50,000 if that.  Not chump change but in the long run, is it worth it.  Obviously it is to him as he chases his NBA dream, so who are we to question him.

Performance-wise, he is off to a slow start.  In 7 games, he is averaging 25 MPG, 11.4 PPG, 3 RPG, and is 4-18 from three land ( 22%  ) and 18-30 from the line ( 60% ).

I would argue he makes far less than that.  NBDL players get 24k/year.  Most rookies overseas get as little as possible.  I would guess 20k to35k/year.  Or, most of the engineering and AIM kids are getting more right out of school.

He's playing on one of the worst teams in Isreal.  He's not among the league leaders in any category.  Buycks played in France in a league that was has sent players to the NBA and he was MVP.

Unless Vander turns it on in the next few months, the degree he put on hold would be more valuable than his basketball career.  Right now he's buried in Israel with little chance to jump to a top Italian or French League let alone the NBA.

[Golden Avalanche]

A day later and many of the board's self-appointed experts have weighed in.  Just as I had hoped.  And sure as sh*t, I've taken the obligatory personal attacks from the cyber-muscled guy who calls himself Sultan, Golden A (love the tasteful 'douche' reference) and the like, but again I go back to the guy who made the comment.
Assuming none of us are being paid as professionals at the top of their craft for the insights we offer here (of course I could be wrong about turban man--I mean Sultan), why the hell would a pro like Fran Fraschilla bring it up?  He knows it happened six months ago.  He knows whats going on with Vander now.  He even knows Vander for cryin' out loud.  If he didn't think it was topical, and an extraordinarily bad decision by an extremely talented player whose greatest ally at that time was more time, why would he launch that discussion in the midst of a national broadcast?

Because his strong preference would be for a young man in that position to not make the same bad decision that Vander did.

If it tastes better, I can call you a first class douche.

The reason Fran brought it up, and the only reason, is because MU is struggling. If the Warriors are 10-2 instead of 7-5, he would never talk about it other then in the context of what a great job Buzz has done in filling the void left by Vander (and Lockett.......to a much lesser extent Cadougan as well) with returnees and Freshmen.

It's catnip for a lazy analyst/journalist. Team struggles? Blame the early entrant, not the coaches who had six months to gameplan around it. Team wins big? Praise the coaches with only a passing reference to talent lost to early entry. Been going on for years if you've paid attention.

[keefe]

If it tastes better, I can call you a first class douche.

The reason Fran brought it up, and the only reason, is because MU is struggling. If the Warriors are 10-2 instead of 7-5, he would never talk about it other then in the context of what a great job Buzz has done in filling the void left by Vander (and Lockett.......to a much lesser extent Cadougan as well) with returnees and Freshmen.

It's catnip for a lazy analyst/journalist. Team struggles? Blame the early entrant, not the coaches who had six months to gameplan around it. Team wins big? Praise the coaches with only a passing reference to talent lost to early entry. Been going on for years if you've paid attention.

The reason Fran Fraschilla brought it up is because it left a huge hole in the Marquette team construct. Planning is fine but you need the airframes to drop the bombs. I am certain Hitler's Oberkommando der Wehrmacht General Staff planned Barbarossa meticulously but it failed due to a lack of fire power. Fraschilla mentioned Vander Blue's departure because it is hugely relevant with the current struggles. Fraschilla is not a "lazy journalist." He knows far more about basketball than everyone here combined.

[keefe]

Well, if you fell that strongly about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C917QJH9GNM

"Nothing comes between me and my AK."

I love the gal firing the Baretta. What they edited out was how it kept jamming from the way she was firing it.

For my money, the M-4A1 SOPMOD Block II is still the finest assault rifle in the world today. The FN SCAR Mk 13/17 was being introduced in my waning days so I stuck with the M-4 while the younger AFSOC guys began adopting the Mk 13. I know the advantages of the FN weapon but the M-4 is still a superb rifle. I slept more nights with it than I did my wife in some years.

[MUrugger]

Fraschilla mentioned Vander Blue's departure because it is hugely relevant with the current struggles. Fraschilla is not a "lazy journalist." He knows far more about basketball than everyone here combined.

Merry Christmas to all!! And Amen to the sanity above regarding FF's bball chops vs. any multiple of the gurus offering their infinite wisdom on Scoop.

[WarriorFan]

Unfortunately Vander is now in Israel proving what everyone but him seemed to know already... that he needs another year of college to learn how to shoot.  I feel badly for him.

[MU82]

Unfortunately Vander is now in Israel proving what everyone but him seemed to know already... that he needs another year of college to learn how to shoot.  I feel badly for him.

What he needed to learn how to do was play the point, because that's his only chance in the NBA.

Returning to MU might have helped in that regard ... or it might not have. Most PGs become PGs very early in their basketball careers -- I'm talking when they are 6, 7, 8 years old -- and grow from there. It's difficult to force-feed PG skills to a non-PG.

It's why I (among others) didn't think he had much of a chance at the NBA from Day 1. (And it's why Buycks at least is getting a cup of coffee, because he already had those skills.)

I don't feel even a little badly for him, though. He's a grown-up and he made a grown-up decision. I feel badly for little kids who are starving around the world, not for pro basketball players.

[Golden Avalanche]

The reason Fran Fraschilla brought it up is because it left a huge hole in the Marquette team construct. Planning is fine but you need the airframes to drop the bombs. I am certain Hitler's Oberkommando der Wehrmacht General Staff planned Barbarossa meticulously but it failed due to a lack of fire power. Fraschilla mentioned Vander Blue's departure because it is hugely relevant with the current struggles. Fraschilla is not a "lazy journalist." He knows far more about basketball than everyone here combined.

For a program that has thrived under instability in every term of Buzz' tenure, Vander leaving is about tenth on the list in terms of surprise. Anyone paying attention to the program, including game analysts on ESPN, knew of Vander's desire to become a professional. It certainly didn't stop many of them claiming this year's team had Final Four potential even after Vander decided to leave the program. Now why would they do that knowing it left a huge hole in the Marquette team construct? Why would it be a problem now in their game analysis and not a problem in their pre-season analysis?

It's low hanging fruit.

[keefe]

Not bad, but I prefer this one....she seems to handle a longer weapon with great dexterity


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sEGE4W70U-U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sEGE4W70U-U</a>

Putting her a$$ up like that will cause her to shoot low and short

[4everwarriors]

Yes, but she appears to be an accomodatin' woman and that's to be commended.