This one's got to hurt

[Murffieus]

mualum-----apparently you didn't see what I saw at MM (DW's body language). Clearly DW was brought in an attempt to pursuade Iman into an emotional decision. Perhaps TC saw the Iman thing sliping way----in that case i can understand bringing in DW as an everything to win and nothing to lose proposition. But barring that, it was a mistake as Iman is beyond hero worship!

We have to recruit on merit of the program and everyone already knows about DW's contribution to it----like the Chinese say----don't go to kill a flee with a cannon----(overkill)!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

mualum-----apparently you didn't see what I saw at MM (DW's body language). Clearly DW was brought in an attempt to pursuade Iman into an emotional decision. Perhaps TC saw the Iman thing sliping way----in that case i can understand bringing in DW as an everything to win and nothing to lose proposition. But barring that, it was a mistake as Iman is beyond hero worship!

We have to recruit on merit of the program and everyone already knows about DW's contribution to it----like the Chinese say----don't go to kill a flee with a cannon----(overkill)!

I understand your ancient Chinese theory, I just don't think bringing in DW3 is a big scary cannon that you say it is.

Also, if you can read body language that well, see if you can figure out what my middle finger is telling you right now 


ok ok ... kidding kidding. I think your premise is wacky, and I think that you are saying it after the fact is bush league... but we can agree to disagree.

[Murffieus]

your interpretation of bringing in a "cannon to kill a flee" is mistaken----it references overkill!

The fact that every recruit already knows about DW's exploits within the program and that he credits TC with a lot of his success-----anything on top of that (such as a MM appearance with mainly one objective in mind) can seem like pressure on a recruit (designed to  subtely pressure him into an emotional decision), which can easily be resented.

[Wareagle]

If only Dwyane Wade had been able to perfect the Jedi Mind Trick in time for MM...  

[Ready2Fly]

your interpretation of bringing in a "cannon to kill a flee" is mistaken----it references overkill!

The fact that every recruit already knows about DW's exploits within the program and that he credits TC with a lot of his success-----anything on top of that (such as a MM appearance with mainly one objective in mind) can seem like pressure on a recruit (designed to  subtely pressure him into an emotional decision), which can easily be resented.

Classic example of over-analysis.

[jmayer1]

Seriously Murph, you are off your rocker

[77fan88warrior]

I heard it was more like a Vulcan mind meld.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If only Coach Jack Nagle didn't bring in 1952 leading scorer and rebounder Russ Wittberger to make a good impression on a young Johnny Glaser, we would have Murf making cockamine observations about DWade's posture vis a vis Iman SHumpert;s recruiting.   

[Niv Berkowitz]

Murff, it's not like MU busts out Wade from a closet and springs him on every recruit at MMadness. It's the first time he's been there that I can remember.

And as for your theory  -  let's say you work for an ad agency that has the Miller Brewing account. You've won tons of awards for the ads you've done for them. Now you go to try and win new business. Do you not talk about what you did for Miller because you don't want to be seen as trying to forcefully persuade someone into doing business with you? Do you not have a letter-of-reference on hand from the President of Miller on hand because you don't want to seem overwhelming or persuading to this new prospective client?

The answer is...HELL NO!! If it's business that you really want, you go in with all guns blazing. Sometimes you break out the letter of recommendation from Miller, sometimes you don't. But you always mention it. You owe it to your business not too.

[Murffieus]

Niv----of course i talk about what i did for others when going after new business-----and TC would be correct in talking about what he's done for DW and others-----but bringing in DW and try subtely to intimidate Iman when Iman was already aware of the Crean/DW connection and all its aspects was overkill designed to overwhelm Iman emotionally-----why else was DW here?

Any success I ever had in sales was the "soft sale" -(the indirect approach worked best for me). A good sales person doesn't belabor the obvious-----but overwhelmes his prospect with solid and /sound product knowledge !

Ziggy-----you were so overwhelmed with emotion and convinced that the DW appearance was the panacea that would make Iman commit to MU after MM------ that you took me to task earlier in the week for being in your words wrong last season when I said bringing in DW to close a deal would backfire-----what say you now?

[Marquette84]

***why else was DW here?

Did you realize that it was MARQUETTE MADNESS?

Wade was there first and foremost to support Marquette, provide excitement for the fans, and motivate the current players.  He would have been there even if Shumpert had cancelled the visit and made his verbal a week before.

Wade was there primarily to motivate the players and build fan enthusiasm for the first MU team given a reasonable chance at getting back to the final four.

If Wade were there simply to impress recruits, he could have stopped by during the campus visits that took place prior to MM.  But he didn't. 


As for your comment that Shumpert's choice proves that bringing wade woul "backfire"--you have absolutely no knowledge of that, period.  For all you know, he had made his mind up that MU wasn't for him on Friday or early on Saturday, but seeing how the fans loved Wade at MM put us back into consideration.  If that's the case, it hardly "backfired" and almost made the day.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.

I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.

Of course, you're the same person who suggested Crean become a recruit's legal guardian to save a scholarship so I shouldn't be surprised.

[Mike Deane]

Murf,

This is my first post opposing you - you are crazy and mr. negative.

Let's say TC did not bring DW in, and IM went to GT, you'd say TC did not work hard enough to bring DW so that IM can meet or worship his hero.

You just cherry pick whatever to discredit TC and his effort.

Would you just have some class and let it go, or did they hurt you that bad?

Mike

[Murffieus]

Deane----I would never say bring in DW to close a deal----first of all it's not his job-----secondly, any dope should be able to see what went on here------DW was brought up to intimidate Iman into an emotional decision----was TC's security blanket-----like I've said time and time again over the last year----more likely to backfire than not. Promoting "hero worship" is not sound recruiting!

BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!

The soft sell works----Al proved that!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!

He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that. More than 60 percent of people on a Marquette message board voted -- all things being equal -- that they'd rather play for Williams or Hewitt. That number was much higher for the first hour the poll was up.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's just not that likable. Kids have to like their coaches. Absent that, they need an assistant they can turn to. We know the problems we've had on that front!

[The Lens]

I have to stand more in Murf's corner on this that others.

These kids are great in their own right.  They are studs who get teachers to look the other way, girls to look their way and in general have the world at their fingertips.  I'm not so sure they want to be hearing Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade every time they talk to someone at MU.  Sure they want to be the next Dwyane Wade but you can't walk thru the Al (and I've been in every nook & cranny) without seeing a pic of DW.  It's a little overbearing.  There is something to be said about the soft sell and more importantly focusing on the future, the future that includes the recruit not the past which includes storesi of Dwyane Wade over UK etc. 

[HansMoleman]

He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that.

Yep, that proves it! 

[coach85]

---

[coach85]

Due to Wade's injury rehab, he wasn't going to play in the Heat's preseason game and so his schedule allowed for him to be present for Marquette Madness. Considering the schedule of a NBA player, this might be the only MM Wade could attend until he retires.

Of course he wanted to help with Shumpert's recruitment. But, it's not a stretch to also consider that - because his college's team was kicking off their most anticipated season in years - Wade wanted to be there to support them and someone he is obviously close to - Crean. And, it's not a stretch to consider that due to the fact that MU is soon to introduce HIS line of clothing/shoes to the basketball world Wade wanted to be there. All things considered, it was a great time for him to visit. He had the time and the connection to a private jet and so he returned.

Why do we read these boards, return to Milwaukee for games and wear MU logos on our clothes/hats?  Because we are proud of MU and want only the best for MU. I would guess DWade feels the same way.

As far as we know, Wade has not been previously included in other recruiting visits of highly ranked players.  We've read his many quotes about his fondness for MU and Crean. Wade's brand is being marketed by one school - MU.  Had this not been the case, the concern  "over selling or forcing Wade in front of Shumpert" may have more validity.

[Marquette84]

Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.

I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.

No, you're delusional.

Tell me this--what person attends their reunion to help recruit new students?  And do they come every year--or, perhaps they come back on, say, the FIFTH anniversary?

And why do any alumni attend Marquette Madness?  Is is that farfetched to think that a guy who actually PLAYED for the team might care as much as a run-of-the-mill spectator?  

Nah--Wade had no interest in MU.  None.  Zip.  

He only wore the uni for two years and attended the school for three.  That means he only care enought to do the dirty work when a former coach tells him to.

Frankly, you're insulting Wade by suggesting that he doesn't care about MU, doesn't care about the team, and doesn't care about MU fans.  The airfare to him out of his pocket probably means less to him than a one-way bus fare is to you.

Tell me this--if Crean is such an unlikable person, why would Wade waste his time to fly up to MU for no other reason than to help Crean do his job?

But then, what can we expect from a guy like you who can't find enough bad things about Crean that he has to find things other coaches do and ask us to pretend it was Crean.  

[ecompt]

Yeah, Crean is hated. That's why we're rated 13th in the preseason polls. No one wants to play for him. He lost Iman because the kid wanted to play 38 minutes a game at point guard and become the next Penny Hardaway after a year or two in college. That's all. If Iman didn't like Crean, he never would have strung him along.

[Murffieus]

But ----Crean isn't hated----one of the things he does very well at MU is muster up a very good relationship ith the media----when you meet him the first time he's  a very likeable person-----however his demons in this biz IMO is his intensity----has to learn to lower the decibles on that quite a bit, IMO!

[ecompt]

Murff, I was reponding to PRN's claim that Crean isn't liked. Again, he's won 20 Big East games in the past two years and will probably go 12-6 or 13-5 this season. If he were fired tomorrow there would be 300 Division I colleges lining up for his services.

[Pakuni]

Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.

I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.

Of course, you're the same person who suggested Crean become a recruit's legal guardian to save a scholarship so I shouldn't be surprised.

Hmmm.
Why would Dwyane Wade fly up from Florida for the sake of helping Marquette land a single recruit?
Could it be because he loves Marquette? Maybe?

Clearly it isn't because he loves Tom Crean. As you've proven beyond a doubt, nobody likes the guy and his overbearing personality. Especially basketball players. Lord knows he's the first and only successful basketball coach with an "overbearing" personality.

[ChicosBailBonds]

BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!

He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that. More than 60 percent of people on a Marquette message board voted -- all things being equal -- that they'd rather play for Williams or Hewitt. That number was much higher for the first hour the poll was up.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's just not that likable. Kids have to like their coaches. Absent that, they need an assistant they can turn to. We know the problems we've had on that front!

PRN have you ever spoken to Diener, Wade or Novak about Crean?  I suggest you do next time you get a chance.