This one's got to hurt

[NotAnAlum]

Before the board gets filled with doom sayers and Crean bashers I just want to say that as disappointed as I am tonight my heart really goes out to Tom Crean and his staff.  I can only imagine how they feel.  By all indications they did everything right to get Iman.  They were in on him early, worked the local angles just like they are supposed to, visited him at midnight the earliest they could to give themselves the best shot at holding out through the UNC sell job, got him to midnight madness, pulled out all the stops including a visit from D Wade.  And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home.  And this comes on the heals of losing their primary big man target to Harvard.  I would be willing to bet that it hasn't happened more than once or twice in the last 50 years that a major D1 school has lost a basketball or football recruit to Harvard.
This is why despite the big salary I would never want to be a college basketball coach.  Your sucess or failure is in large part determined by the decisions of 18 year olds.
Tomorrow I will go back to my job and pretty much try to forget about this disappointment.  The season will start soon and I'll just think about that.  But for the guys that spent a bunch of time on this and I'm sure thought that these guys "would certainly chose Marquette" its got to be hard to move on.

[Murffieus]

I thought TC overdid it when he brought D Wade in at MM-----might have helped with a young guy (Williams) from 1,500 miles a way-----but with a seemingly very mature individual like Iman I thought it was overkill. I mean #3 is plastered all over the Al McGuire Center as it is and then to bring him in and have DW stand directly in front of Iman all night while coaching one of the teams and have him look over at Iman and speak to him with body language -----this I thought was trying to get Iman to buy into "hero worship". -----Iman may have felt the same. DW is  going to be the "elephant in the room" in any MU recruiting relationship anyway -----so better to keep him as "background music"----a reference-----use him as a carrot in that he will visit the team when in town with the Heat-----the inference being, if you want to get to know DW come to MU.

This was a gamble by TC as some players may buy into the hero worship approach but others will see through it and be above that.

Just have to know your customer!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I thought TC overdid it when he brought D Wade in at MM-----might have helped with a young guy (Williams) from 1,500 miles a way-----but with a seemingly very mature individual like Iman I thought it was overkill. I mean #3 is plastered all over the Al McGuire Center as it is and then to bring him in and have DW stand directly in front of Iman all night while coaching one of the teams and have him look over at Iman and speak to him with body language -----this I thought was trying to get Iman to buy into "hero worship". -----Iman may have felt the same. DW is  going to be the "elephant in the room" in any MU recruiting relationship anyway -----so better to keep him as "background music"----a reference-----use him as a carrot in that he will visit the team when in town with the Heat-----the inference being, if you want to get to know DW come to MU.

This was a gamble by TC as some players may buy into the hero worship approach but others will see through it and be above that.

Just have to know your customer!

While I think you actually believe what you are saying (which I think you crazy), you should have gone on record this afternoon rather then after the fact.

It sounds like you are giving an "I told you so", instead of trying to provide something insightful.

Makes you seem like you have something against the current staff.

[ecompt]

We did everything we could. We'll survive.

[mu_hilltopper]

That may be the most crazy thing I've heard.  That somehow, bringing in DWade, the sharpest stick in our box, was counter-productive or over-kill.  From reports, Iman was thrilled to be near Wade.

[Murffieus]

mualum-----last year on numerous occasions i went round and round on these boards with SJS (Marquette 84) and others about the advisability of bringing in DW for personal appearances un front of recruits to supposedly aid in their recruitment. My position was then and is now that's it's overkill. It borders on selling "hero worship"----will work on some recruits, but backfire on others who see through that.

Don't get me wrong-----DW is a very valuable asset in recruiting, but keep him in the background-----don't force him on recruits ------everyone knows the story------show the recruits written testimonials from him regarding the program------keep him very visible on the walls of the Al Mcguire Center----even tell recruits that he visits the team everytime he comes in town with the Heat(the implication being that if you want to meet DW and get acquainted----sign with MU)-----as i say the Wade elephant is always in the room with recruits-----but don't showcase him personaly in front of top recruits-----IMO overkill!

BTW----if Iman was so "excited" and so important to see DW----why did he go to GT?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home. 

What's with referring to Georgia Tech as an "also ran" ACC school? They've made the NCAA 3 of the last 4 years and have a couple recent Final Fours. Are you nuts?

I'm sure everybody will focus on Murff's comments - which I also disagree with -- but Georgia Tech has arguably had more recent success than MU. Some people need to get some perspective on Marquette!

[Niv Berkowitz]

Murf, I see the point you are making....actually, no I don't.

Even if it's overkill in your opinion, do you honestly think some 18 year old kid out there is thinking, "boy, I really like Marquette, but why did they have to bring D.Wade there to see me? I think I'd much rather go somewhere where they don't bring out famous recruits/graduates of the past."

Do you watch TV? Are you familiar with advertising? Everything we do and see today involves some form of hero worship. Have you read Iman's quotes? He wants to go to the NBA. Hell, he's planning on it. And he said that he felt he'd be able to get in and play quicker at GT than at MU. Then, throw in GT's prior point guards and you honestly don't think some kind of hero-worship played a role in him going there? You think that by bringing in D Wade, it OVER DID things? Really? I think you're nuts if you think that.

Wade is the highest profile NBA player in the world. If Crean calls him and asks him to show up on campus and he does, I wouldn't hold that against Crean or Wade. And...from a business perspective, Wade now has a clothing/uniform-line to promote. It's not just in the program's best interest to show him off, but this year, it was in Wade's as well.

Lastly, it's not like Wade comes out every year for this. NCAA rules also stipulate that Wade can't even talk to the recruits about coming to MU. So, in the end, I liked the idea of him having a surprise visit this year and it surely didn't hurt MU.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Knocking on G.Tech won't help matters, and - god help me - PRN is right. G.Tech is no slouch.

MU just lost a prized recruit to a traditionally great program (especially for PGs) that's in the ACC. How many times over the last 20 years has MU been in the running for such a player? Not a ton.

And that's why losing him hurts from a national perspective. It would have elevated MU some as far as being a national destination of top 25 recruits. It doesn't kill the program or seal the coffin on the team's 2008/2010 season by any means. The team will be just fine this year and next (big man or not). Crean's done enough to earn our trust that he'll plug the gaps with quality players (and probably one or two that aren't so quality...such is life in college basketball today).

[MUDPT]

Wade will only help us.  I've said this story before, but I treated a pretty good basketball player last spring in the Chicago area.  His favorite player was DWade.  We are seeing the beginning of using him as a recruiting force.  This player will be a junior next year, grew up in middle school when DWade was a rookie.  This is when kids realize who they really like and idolize.  You will see many players point to Dwyane as why they came to Marquette in future years, I guarantee it.

[NotAnAlum]

GT is a solid program which I would argue is at about the same level as MU.  What I meant by my comment was that GT is not an elite basketball program on the level of Kentucky, Kansas or in the ACC Duke or UNC.  Those programs you expect to be able to negate a distance edge, they do it all the time.  This would be the same situation as MU getting a top 25 kid out Macon GA who GT had made their top priority.  To an unbiased observer that would seem a little strange and this does to.  If you think I'm nuts check out the UNC board.  If they were going to lose they figured it had to be MU.

[ONeills Barstool]

BTW----if Iman was so "excited" and so important to see DW----why did he go to GT?

Shumpert wanted immediate PT.....that's why he went to GT.  He most certainly didn't choose GT to punish Crean for putting him in close personal proximity to Dwyane Wade.

[Murffieus]

Niv----what is there to gain by hauling out DW unsolicited? How does that play in his eventual commitment? All recruits already know about his exploits within the program which is extremely impressive-----anything beyond that is forcing "hero worship" on recruits------as i say, this may work with younger recruits, but IMO can be counterproductive with mature recruits. They are more interested in how they fit with the program (immediate playing time, compatibility with team members, compatibility, etc------there is an old chinese proverb------"don't kill a flee with a cannon"!

[Murffieus]

He didn't go to GT to "punish anyone"-----he went there because rightfully or wrongly. he saw more opportunity. Using DW as a security blanket sure didn't help Iman see the opportunity here.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home. 

What's with referring to Georgia Tech as an "also ran" ACC school? They've made the NCAA 3 of the last 4 years and have a couple recent Final Fours. Are you nuts?

I'm sure everybody will focus on Murff's comments - which I also disagree with -- but Georgia Tech has arguably had more recent success than MU. Some people need to get some perspective on Marquette!

I have to say that I agree with you.

GT is no slouch, and I don't think "losing" out to them is a bad loss.

oh, also, MU has made the tourney 2 out of 3 years and has a recent final four... so we are no slouch either.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

Dwayne Wade's presence at MM had no impact on the recruitment on Iman Shumpert, positive or negative.  He is a mature kid and went to the place that he feels he fits best and will enjoy the most.

Also, IS was not the only recruit in attendance, we need to remember that.

[Murffieus]

Putting myself in Iman's position:

Here i am in the process of making one of the biggest decisions of my life (a career decision) and DW is flounted in front of me as if this has any bearing on my making a rational decision, which it doesn't. My thinking would be why did  Coach Crean think it necessary to bring in DW? Was it to intimidate me into an emotional decision?

Obviously it was!

[muarmy81]

Putting myself in Iman's position:

My thinking would be why did  Coach Crean think it necessary to bring in DW? Was it to intimidate me into an emotional decision?

Obviously it was!

Seriously Murf,
I tend to just ignore alot of things I think are completely off the wall but "putting yourself in Iman's Position" and then somehow realizing that Crean was trying to intimidate Iman into an "emotional decision".  Come on, how far are you going to dig into this thing?  How crazy are your speculations going to get? 
Wade intimidating him?  he's not allowed (and didn't) to talk to recruits so was he using some sort of Jedi Mind trick?  Do you see how ridiculous this sounds?  Although I don't agree with your opinion I understand your point about overexposing Wade on bright young men during the recruiting process.  With that being said, you really need to reevlauate your argument because the argument that You're in Iman's thoughts and fears is a wee bit overboard.

[Murffieus]

Of course DW was brought in to subtely intimidate Iman into an emotional decision. I watched DW closely-----he made himself very conspicuos by standing in front of Iman the whole night-----also communicating with him through body language-----and DW said all the right things in front of the assembled throng, but it was directed mainly to one person.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

Murph, you have your opinion which is fine...

However, "Putting myself in Iman's position..." - Do you think you can relate to today's 18 year old student athletes?  I am 25 years old and don't think I can relate that much.

Please don't pretend that they way you think applies to how Iman Shumpert thinks.  These kids are how many years younger than you?  They live a completely different life style with a different upbringing and a completely different set of values, heck even a different culture from the one you grew up in - there is a very good chance that if you were in Iman's position the outcome would be nowhere near what it was yesterday.  Please don't make the mistake of applying your thoughts and feelings to other people.

We all understand that bringing DW out to MM would have put a bad or odd taste in your mouth.  However, the coaches who are by far closer to the situation than we are, actually know the recruits' personalities (we can only go by brief interviews and news clippings) decided to give it a shot.  Maybe it didn't pay dividends on IS, but maybe it did for one of the other recruits in attendance.  We did get a solid commit as a direct result of MM, and for that I am happy.  

After reading as much as I could about IS' decision, my best take on the whole scenario is that Iman was GTs all the way, and no matter how great of a job we did at MM, we weren't as good of a fit for him.

[MU05MUHS01]

Just joined this site...I love the topics of conversation and could no longer sit on the outside looking in.

I have never been a huge fan of Crean in terms of an X's and O's coach but in terms of the way he rebuilt the program I could not be happier.

I think the idea of using DW was a great idea.  Put yourself in this position, you are an 18 year old kid from Chicago making the biggest decision of your life and out walks DW.  As an 18 year old kid I would look at this as my future.  DW is Chicago kid who took a chance at MU and MU took a chance with him.  TC developed him into a superstar athlete who is now the face of the NBA.  Iman said he wants to go to the NBA and TC has shown he is a coach that will get you to the NBA, point and case DW.  The bottom line is Iman went to GT because of playing time and the need for guards.  If he is as good as everyone says he is that is one thing but to think a true freshmen is going to come in and take time away from DJ(who will still be around next year), Cubillian, Aker, is crazy.  I would have loved to see Iman in the blue and gold but he made a decision that was best for himself and you have to respect that.  

[LastWarrior]

I looking forward to Wade's first dunk over Iman in the NBA!!   

[ecompt]

Murff, you're way off base.
First off, Iman wasn't making one of the biggest decisions of his life. Ben-Eze was when he chose Harvard because he will spend four years getting a terrific education and forgoing his game (to a certain extent) before trying the NBA. Iman has different goals. Good luck to him.
To insinuate DW had anything to do with this is wrong.

[Murffieus]

I thought we were a great fit for Iman. I mean he's a guard and TC plays a guard orientated offense and has had very good success in developing perimeter players within a program in one of the best conferences in the nation and a very competitive team within that conference. Not only that, but right up the road only 90 miles.

My point is that we don't need DW as a "security blanket"-----keep him in the background as the "elephant" in the room-----being laid back about DW carries a mystique that sends a very discrete message. If coaches could turn every good prospect into a DW, fine bring him out in the forefront----but the reality is that there is only one DW and won't be another around here for a long time.

BTW----from everything i read, Iman was not the type that could be intimidated into an emotional decision!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Of course DW was brought in to subtely intimidate Iman into an emotional decision. I watched DW closely-----he made himself very conspicuos by standing in front of Iman the whole night-----also communicating with him through body language-----and DW said all the right things in front of the assembled throng, but it was directed mainly to one person.

Dude,

You've lost it.

You could tell from Dwade's body language that he was trying to pressure Iman into a decision?

C'mon. Even you can't believe what you are writing.