Vote for your starting PG

[NersEllenson]

Hypothetically speaking, Ners is a douche bag.

What a pathetic fan you are.

Thanks...glad you only find me a douche bag, hypothetically speaking.  I simply find you to be a douche bag, period.

What a pathetic Puerto Rican you are...a disgrace to Puerto Rico.

[brewcity77]

I think a PG should be a threat to score, and should be able to get the ball to others on the floor in good position to do something positive.  The fact that Derrick Wilson dribbles the ball up the court on roughly 100% of our possession for 32 minutes a game and 3 times a game one of his 100 perimeter to perimeter passes is turned into a score on a jump shot or a nice move doesn't impress me all that much.

Derrick is learning on the job. But Junior brought it up just as much and averaged fewer assists last year than Derrick is right now (4.0, not 3). And in the past 5 games, Derrick is averaging 8.6 ppg, which is more than Junior averaged last year. The kid's a work in progress, but he's improving. I just don't get how anyone can't see that.

[brewcity77]

Ners. What is your expectation for this team with Derrick at the point?

[NersEllenson]

Ners. What is your expectation for this team with Derrick at the point?

If Derrick continues to get 30+ minutes per game, we are at best a bubble team - 19 wins.

I think a good, high major point guard, in his Junior year, should average 10ppg, 6 assists, 1 steal, and no more than 2 turnovers per 30-35 minutes played.

I was a little more optimistic for Derrick after ASU as they are at least a decent team, and he put up nice numbers - though Carson got off big against us, and Derrick was primary defender...

Has Derrick improved this year over last?  Slightly, but let's be frank, there really wasn't much regression possible, as his performances to date set the bar extremely low.

My biggest beef with him, is that he isn't a playmaker in any sense of the word, at the position you need the most creativity, and play making ability.

Think Derrick is a high character guy, and great kid, and from that perspective I feel bad beating the negative drum against him - but I just feel (obviously) very strongly that he is what ails this team.

[MU B2002]

I didn't vote because this poll is Bull Sh*t nonsense.

Can we add this option to the choices?

[CTWarrior]

Derrick is learning on the job. But Junior brought it up just as much and averaged fewer assists last year than Derrick is right now (4.0, not 3). And in the past 5 games, Derrick is averaging 8.6 ppg, which is more than Junior averaged last year. The kid's a work in progress, but he's improving. I just don't get how anyone can't see that.

I said 3 because it is 3.2 not counting Grambling (and I think he will finish closer to 3 than 4, especially if his minutes decrease to more normal numbers), which wasn't a NCAA level team and we ran the whole game which we will likely never do again.  I appreciate he had a big scoring game against ASU who didn't guard him at all, which is where the bulk of that 8.6 ppg comes from.  

Look at it like this, if you were coaching against Marquette, would Derrick Wilson worry you other than finding innovative ways of using the man guarding him to help out elsewhere?

[ronald dragon]

I see Derrick  as an above average back up point guard and just below average starting point guard. Not a  knock on him but  he just doesn't seem to have a killer instinct I'd like to see our floor general  have.  However if the team as a whole can get it going offensively and Derrick  can put together a few full  games of some of the flashes he has shown I can see  him getting enough confidence to become an  above average ( possibly  above a average)  starting point guard. I think he has the tools to be a terrific ask around player,  it's just ask about getting him to use all of them consistently.

[hairy worthen]

Here's the thing.  Watch Jake Thomas' guy.  He doesn't collapse on the guys who can score all that much.  JT is neutralized by having a guy guard him everywhere he goes.  It's not that hard to do, but you still have to do it.  He does provide breathing room for the interior guys.

You are correct, they are dropping off of Derrick and pretty much staying with Jake.  You have to have some outside scoring from one of those guys though. Right now they are not getting it. My main point was you can win with a guy like Derrick if you have a shooter at the 2.  You could also win with a shooter at the 1 like you suggest, but we do not have that right now. I think we will once Du Wilson gets back, but right now I think we could more easily replace the 2 with a better option. I think eventually that will happen.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think a good, high major point guard, in his Junior year, should average 10ppg, 6 assists, 1 steal, and no more than 2 turnovers per 30-35 minutes played.

2013 high-major NBA draftees...

Peyton Siva as a junior: 9.1 ppg, 5.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOs. Not a good enough PG for Ners. (L'ville made it to the Final Four)

MCW as a soph: 11.9 ppg, 7.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 3.4 TOs. Too many TOs for Ners

Lorenzo Brown junior: 12.4 ppg, 7.2 assists, 2 steals, 3.5 TOs. Take care of the ball, future NBA player!

Pierre Jackson as a junior: 13.8 ppg, 5.9 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 TO's. Too many TOs for Ners.

Trey Burke as a soph: 18.6 ppg, 6.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 2.2 TOs. Pretty close, but the TOs are a little concerning

Erick Green as a junior: 15.6 ppg, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.5 TOs. If you want to be Ners' PG, you need to pass the ball, son!

Shane Larkin as a soph: 14.5 ppg, 4.6 assists, 2 steals, 2.3 TOs. Barely won the ACC with those numbers!


No wonder Ners doesn't like Derrick. He wouldn't like any point guard.

[Nukem2]

Easily Junior over Derrick.  Derrick does not have the court vision or the ability to make entry passes that Junior had.  Derrick may protect the ball better and play better defense.  But, Junior was simply a more instinctive PG.  Ignore stats and trust the eye test.

[GooooMarquette]

2013 high-major NBA draftees...

Peyton Siva as a junior: 9.1 ppg, 5.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOs. Not a good enough PG for Ners. (L'ville made it to the Final Four)

MCW as a soph: 11.9 ppg, 7.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 3.4 TOs. Too many TOs for Ners

Lorenzo Brown junior: 12.4 ppg, 7.2 assists, 2 steals, 3.5 TOs. Take care of the ball, future NBA player!

Pierre Jackson as a junior: 13.8 ppg, 5.9 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 TO's. Too many TOs for Ners.

Trey Burke as a soph: 18.6 ppg, 6.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 2.2 TOs. Pretty close, but the TOs are a little concerning

Erick Green as a junior: 15.6 ppg, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.5 TOs. If you want to be Ners' PG, you need to pass the ball, son!

Shane Larkin as a soph: 14.5 ppg, 4.6 assists, 2 steals, 2.3 TOs. Barely won the ACC with those numbers!


No wonder Ners doesn't like Derrick. He wouldn't like any point guard.

Yep.  And by the way, even JC didn't meet these numbers...yet Ners seems to think he should start this year.

[chapman]

This is an easy question. Cadougan.  I'd take Acker, Buycks, Cuby, and Marcus Jackson over Derrick Wilson at this poiont. 

I'm still all for seeing if the women's team would share Brooklyn.

[brewcity77]

If Derrick continues to get 30+ minutes per game, we are at best a bubble team - 19 wins.

I think a good, high major point guard, in his Junior year, should average 10ppg, 6 assists, 1 steal, and no more than 2 turnovers per 30-35 minutes played.

I was a little more optimistic for Derrick after ASU as they are at least a decent team, and he put up nice numbers - though Carson got off big against us, and Derrick was primary defender...

Has Derrick improved this year over last?  Slightly, but let's be frank, there really wasn't much regression possible, as his performances to date set the bar extremely low.

My biggest beef with him, is that he isn't a playmaker in any sense of the word, at the position you need the most creativity, and play making ability.

Think Derrick is a high character guy, and great kid, and from that perspective I feel bad beating the negative drum against him - but I just feel (obviously) very strongly that he is what ails this team.

Those are some lofty goals. Last year there was only one player in the entire country that accomplished that, and Matthew Dellavedova is now playing in the NBA.

Okay...how does this wager sound:

• Make NCAA Tournament
• Derrick averages 6.0+ points per game
• Derrick averages 3.7+ assists per game
• Derrick averages <2.0 turnovers per game

.
That's more points than Junior averaged for his career, more assists than Junior averaged for his career, and fewer turnovers than Junior averaged for his career. And a NCAA berth. If all those things happen, I win the bet. And the stakes are a self-imposed ban from MUScoop for one year. We start now. None of the previous games count. Starting with IUPUI, if Derrick makes those marks for the rest of the season, most of which will be against high-major defenses, I win and you don't post for a year. If you win and Derrick is as inadequate as you say, I will stop posting for a year.

[MU B2002]

2013 high-major NBA draftees...

Peyton Siva as a junior: 9.1 ppg, 5.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOs. Not a good enough PG for Ners. (L'ville made it to the Final Four)

MCW as a soph: 11.9 ppg, 7.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 3.4 TOs. Too many TOs for Ners

Lorenzo Brown junior: 12.4 ppg, 7.2 assists, 2 steals, 3.5 TOs. Take care of the ball, future NBA player!

Pierre Jackson as a junior: 13.8 ppg, 5.9 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 TO's. Too many TOs for Ners.

Trey Burke as a soph: 18.6 ppg, 6.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 2.2 TOs. Pretty close, but the TOs are a little concerning

Erick Green as a junior: 15.6 ppg, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.5 TOs. If you want to be Ners' PG, you need to pass the ball, son!

Shane Larkin as a soph: 14.5 ppg, 4.6 assists, 2 steals, 2.3 TOs. Barely won the ACC with those numbers!


No wonder Ners doesn't like Derrick. He wouldn't like any point guard.

Here's another,
Damian Lillard as a senior: 24.5ppg, 4.0 assists, 1.5 steals, 2.3 TOs


Season   GP   MPG   PPG   FG%   3FG%   FT%   APG   RPG   BPG   SPG
2011-12   32   34.5   24.5   46.7   40.9   88.7   4.0   5.0   0.2   1.5

Too many turnovers, and not enough dimes.  

[NersEllenson]

2013 high-major NBA draftees...

Peyton Siva as a junior: 9.1 ppg, 5.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOs. Not a good enough PG for Ners. (L'ville made it to the Final Four)

MCW as a soph: 11.9 ppg, 7.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 3.4 TOs. Too many TOs for Ners

Lorenzo Brown junior: 12.4 ppg, 7.2 assists, 2 steals, 3.5 TOs. Take care of the ball, future NBA player!

Pierre Jackson as a junior: 13.8 ppg, 5.9 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 TO's. Too many TOs for Ners.

Trey Burke as a soph: 18.6 ppg, 6.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 2.2 TOs. Pretty close, but the TOs are a little concerning

Erick Green as a junior: 15.6 ppg, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.5 TOs. If you want to be Ners' PG, you need to pass the ball, son!

Shane Larkin as a soph: 14.5 ppg, 4.6 assists, 2 steals, 2.3 TOs. Barely won the ACC with those numbers!


No wonder Ners doesn't like Derrick. He wouldn't like any point guard.

Thanks for actually helping to prove my point - all these guys are sophomores or juniors and numbers are WAY better than Derrick.  Oh, too bad, most of the guys went over on turnovers by 1-1.5 per game.  Here's the deal - I'd much rather have a PG who turns the ball over a little more due to being aggressive, and being a playmaker as was Junior - than a ball protector who does NOTHING to be a playmaker, as is the way Derrick plays the point.  

You can cherry pick on the turnover stat all you want - I just said off the top of my head what I feel are good PG numbers for a high major PG...Don't think wanting 10ppg, 6 assists, 1 steal and 2 turnovers in 30-35 minutes of action is asking a ridiculous amount from a starting PG..

[NersEllenson]

Those are some lofty goals. Last year there was only one player in the entire country that accomplished that, and Matthew Dellavedova is now playing in the NBA.

Okay...how does this wager sound:

• Make NCAA Tournament
• Derrick averages 6.0+ points per game
• Derrick averages 3.7+ assists per game
• Derrick averages <2.0 turnovers per game

.
That's more points than Junior averaged for his career, more assists than Junior averaged for his career, and fewer turnovers than Junior averaged for his career. And a NCAA berth. If all those things happen, I win the bet. And the stakes are a self-imposed ban from MUScoop for one year. We start now. None of the previous games count. Starting with IUPUI, if Derrick makes those marks for the rest of the season, most of which will be against high-major defenses, I win and you don't post for a year. If you win and Derrick is as inadequate as you say, I will stop posting for a year.

Yes I'll gladly take this bet if we roll in Derrick's career numbers as you did for Cadougan - but wait, you say start now, but we have to use Junior's freshman, sophomore, and first 9 games of his Junior year factoring into the bet, but not Derrick??!  Come on man..

[JD]

Those are some lofty goals. Last year there was only one player in the entire country that accomplished that, and Matthew Dellavedova is now playing in the NBA.

Okay...how does this wager sound:

• Make NCAA Tournament
• Derrick averages 6.0+ points per game
• Derrick averages 3.7+ assists per game
• Derrick averages <2.0 turnovers per game

.
That's more points than Junior averaged for his career, more assists than Junior averaged for his career, and fewer turnovers than Junior averaged for his career. And a NCAA berth. If all those things happen, I win the bet. And the stakes are a self-imposed ban from MUScoop for one year. We start now. None of the previous games count. Starting with IUPUI, if Derrick makes those marks for the rest of the season, most of which will be against high-major defenses, I win and you don't post for a year. If you win and Derrick is as inadequate as you say, I will stop posting for a year.

I'll take this bet, not because i think Derrick won't or can't do it, but because any guy who takes the time to go through everyone's previous post about our basketball team last year and praise themselves on their ability to predict the future and put everyone on blast is a _____.  I'm in.  

[brewcity77]

That includes Junior's 3 turnovers in 12 freshman games. If Derrick has one bad TO night I'm done. That's more assists than June had as a senior. Fewer turnovers than either his junior or senior year. I hardly think those stakes are unreasonable. I need 4 things to happen to win the bet. You need one thing not to. Seems pretty fair to me.

[MerrittsMustache]

Thanks for actually helping to prove my point - all these guys are sophomores or juniors and numbers are WAY better than Derrick.  Oh, too bad, most of the guys went over on turnovers by 1-1.5 per game.  Here's the deal - I'd much rather have a PG who turns the ball over a little more due to being aggressive, and being a playmaker as was Junior - than a ball protector who does NOTHING to be a playmaker, as is the way Derrick plays the point.  

You can cherry pick on the turnover stat all you want - I just said off the top of my head what I feel are good PG numbers for a high major PG...Don't think wanting 10ppg, 6 assists, 1 steal and 2 turnovers in 30-35 minutes of action is asking a ridiculous amount from a starting PG..

So basically, you want an NBA-bound PG and anything less is not good enough.

As brew pointed out, only one player put up those numbers last season. In fact, only 7 high major PGs averaged 6+ assists last season.

[brewcity77]

I'll take this bet, not because i think Derrick won't or can't do it, but because any guy who takes the time to go through everyone's previous post about our basketball team last year and praise themselves on their ability to predict the future and put everyone on blast is a _____.  I'm in.  

Nope. This is a one-man bet. Nothing personal, JD, but you don't post near as much as Ners and aren't near as antagonistic in your attitude toward Derrick. I'm not inviting anyone on the site to put me on a ban for a year. Just Ners.

[NersEllenson]

That includes Junior's 3 turnovers in 12 freshman games. If Derrick has one bad TO night I'm done. That's more assists than June had as a senior. Fewer turnovers than either his junior or senior year. I hardly think those stakes are unreasonable. I need 4 things to happen to win the bet. You need one thing not to. Seems pretty fair to me.

Huh?  I'd be an idiot to say, yes, let's make a bet on one players 4 year career numbers, but throw out the freshman and sophomore numbers of the other guy, and only begin the bet 9 games into a guys Junior year, and benchmark against the other guys whole career.  Fair??  Don't know what universe you live in, but that in no way is an apples to apples bet..

[NersEllenson]

So basically, you want an NBA-bound PG and anything less is not good enough.

As brew pointed out, only one player put up those numbers last season. In fact, only 7 high major PGs averaged 6+ assists last season.

All I want is a guy who can put up more than 0 points and 1 assist in 39 minutes of action against Wisconsin...or Ohio State for that matter.  Go look at the box and see what UW's guards did against us - none of whom are likely to sniff the pros - Jackson, Gasser, or Brust...

How you can continue to think Derrick Wilson hasn't been awful is beyond me...and apparently 72% of the posters who have voted in this poll..

[brewcity77]

Then look at it like this: I'm basically using Junior's senior year statistics, with the only difference being that the points Junior gave away and turnovers I'm taking away from Derek's points scored. Sorry for spelling, on my phone.

[MerrittsMustache]

All I want is a guy who can put up more than 0 points and 1 assist in 39 minutes of action against Wisconsin...or Ohio State for that matter.  Go look at the box and see what UW's guards did against us - none of whom are likely to sniff the pros - Jackson, Gasser, or Brust...

How you can continue to think Derrick Wilson hasn't been awful is beyond me...and apparently 72% of the posters who have voted in this poll..

Derrick scored 3 points in each of those games so there you go. He's your guy!

You're back-tracking. You said that you wanted a 10-6 guy who doesn't turn the ball over.

So anyone who would pick Cadougan over Derrick is saying that Wilson has been awful? That's not the poll question that YOU created.

I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore. Instead of your ramblings, maybe just post "I DON'T LIKE DERRICK WILSON" instead and save yourself some time.

[NersEllenson]

Derrick scored 3 points in each of those games so there you go. He's your guy!

You're back-tracking. You said that you wanted a 10-6 guy who doesn't turn the ball over.

So anyone who would pick Cadougan over Derrick is saying that Wilson has been awful? That's not the poll question that YOU created.

My bad....if you can live with a high major PG who scores 6 points on 2 of 12 shooting, and gets 2 assists, 4 turnovers in 77 minutes of play against the two very good teams we've played....your standards must be exceedingly low...

You seriously are going to argue Derrick hasn't been awful??  I'd gladly take Brust, Gasser, or Traveon Jackson over Derrick in a heartbeat...and none of those guys are going to smell the NBA..