May I suggest a new starting 5?

[ATL MU Warrior]

+1

I don't think anyone is completely satisfied with where things are. The simple truth is this is a flawed team, just like every other team Buzz has had. His first team didn't have any inside offensive presence and little depth. The next year we were undersized from 1-5. The first Sweet 16 year we had erratic PG play and trouble closing out close games. The second Sweet 16 year our offense played fast but was inefficient and we had little defense inside. Last year, we had no go-to scorer and a PG that ran hot and cold.

I'd love to have Shabazz Napier at the point. The simple truth is we don't. Buzz has overcome all of these issues over the years. As much-maligned as Derrick has been, no one has shown to be better. It wouldn't surprise me to see this team turn into more of a grind-it-out team than we are used to. The defense has been excellent so far. Championship level excellent. If the offense can get to the point of being respectable, this team has the potential to go far.

Agreed.  What we need most is (in order):

1) Jamil to want to put the team on his back and be the man.  This is worrisome because he has yet to show any inclination to want to do that.

2) DG to play with the same fire on both ends of the court.  Our team defense takes a huge downgrade with him on the floor...we can't have him playing big minutes for his offense when his D is so bad.  OSU big run yesterday came with him on the floor and doing nothing to contest layups.  Understand if he was contesting shots but unwilling to do so too aggresively due to fouls, but he was not in position to even contest.

3) The entire team, but mostly Steve and Juan, to be more aggressive on offense.  Those two in particular have skills, but both look too hesitant.  Our offense looks bad because it looks like nobody wants to be the guy to shoot.  Everyone needs to get over that and quick. 

4) Todd to rein it in just a little.  Hard to criticize him for yesterday as nobody else was doing anything offensively and he at least was trying, but some of that aggression could be used to break down the defense then provide opportunities for others, rather than attempting some impossible shot.

5) Time to gel as a team, particularly on offense.  They will figure out how to make it work. 

[brewcity77]

Agreed.  What we need most is (in order):

1) Jamil to want to put the team on his back and be the man.  This is worrisome because he has yet to show any inclination to want to do that.

2) DG to play with the same fire on both ends of the court.  Our team defense takes a huge downgrade with him on the floor...we can't have him playing big minutes for his offense when his D is so bad.  OSU big run yesterday came with him on the floor and doing nothing to contest layups.  Understand if he was contesting shots but unwilling to do so too aggresively due to fouls, but he was not in position to even contest.

3) The entire team, but mostly Steve and Juan, to be more aggressive on offense.  Those two in particular have skills, but both look too hesitant.  Our offense looks bad because it looks like nobody wants to be the guy to shoot.  Everyone needs to get over that and quick. 

4) Todd to rein it in just a little.  Hard to criticize him for yesterday as nobody else was doing anything offensively and he at least was trying, but some of that aggression could be used to break down the defense then provide opportunities for others, rather than attempting some impossible shot.

5) Time to gel as a team, particularly on offense.  They will figure out how to make it work. 

I'd pretty much agree with this completely. As much flack as Derrick is getting, it really seems to me like he's the one most doing what he's supposed to be doing. While I don't want to see him jacking shots like he did yesterday, what choice did he have? He had zero help. DeWil has been good on defense, been more of a playmaker than any of us expected, and not overextended himself on offense. If Jamil is more aggressive and some of the three-point shooters were hitting shots yesterday, I have no doubt DeWil would have had an easier time finding Gardner inside. It was a bad game, there was a lid on the basket, but the notion that replacing DeWil with a freshman will suddenly cure all that ails us is simply silly.

[NersEllenson]

I'd pretty much agree with this completely. As much flack as Derrick is getting, it really seems to me like he's the one most doing what he's supposed to be doing. While I don't want to see him jacking shots like he did yesterday, what choice did he have? He had zero help. DeWil has been good on defense, been more of a playmaker than any of us expected, and not overextended himself on offense. If Jamil is more aggressive and some of the three-point shooters were hitting shots yesterday, I have no doubt DeWil would have had an easier time finding Gardner inside. It was a bad game, there was a lid on the basket, but the notion that replacing DeWil with a freshman will suddenly cure all that ails us is simply silly.

To try to defend Derrick Wilson's performance yesterday is ridiculous.  What choice did he not have but to jack shots when the OSU defense sagged so far off of him, clogging up the middle for Gardner, Jamil, and cutters?  His inbound passes?  Taking a 5 second call on an inbound?  Jamil should have been inbounding the ball...Derrick way too short to effectively inbound against the long, rangy player they had defend the out of bounds plays.

And Derrick was a "playmaker" yesterday?  Sorry.  And no, if Derrick can't get it together, and Buzz continues to start him and play him extensive minutes....this won't be another year where we lay an egg in the early season, but go on to have a really good conference and NCAA tourney.  You simply cannot have a PG as ineffective as Derrick.  Maybe Dawson isn't the answer - but he certainly wouldn't have been worse than Derrick yesterday.  Maybe Jamil needs to be a Point Forward.  Perhaps move Todd there.  But Derrick is not the solution.

[DavidBoone2inchesTaller]

Heavy Gear, I apologize but I don't understand a word you say on this board. I simply can't read your posts with that video below them.

[brewcity77]

I wonder how many assists Derrick would have had yesterday had Todd, Jamil, and Jake hit their wide-open threes.

[chapman]

To try to defend Derrick Wilson's performance yesterday is ridiculous.  What choice did he not have but to jack shots when the OSU defense sagged so far off of him, clogging up the middle for Gardner, Jamil, and cutters?  His inbound passes?  Taking a 5 second call on an inbound?  Jamil should have been inbounding the ball...Derrick way too short to effectively inbound against the long, rangy player they had defend the out of bounds plays.

And Derrick was a "playmaker" yesterday?  Sorry.  And no, if Derrick can't get it together, and Buzz continues to start him and play him extensive minutes....this won't be another year where we lay an egg in the early season, but go on to have a really good conference and NCAA tourney.  You simply cannot have a PG as ineffective as Derrick.  Maybe Dawson isn't the answer - but he certainly wouldn't have been worse than Derrick yesterday.  Maybe Jamil needs to be a Point Forward.  Perhaps move Todd there.  But Derrick is not the solution.

+1.  He hasn't ever been a playmaker.  If it's everyone else's fault for not making him look good he's always going to have that excuse.  If he was supposed to do nothing, I suppose he did it well.  But that's the role of a backup, not 38 minutes.

I wonder how many assists Derrick would have had yesterday had Todd, Jamil, and Jake hit their wide-open threes.

And how many turnovers if they didn't run over to rescue him the many times he got in trouble by picking up his dribble because someone was within five feet of him?

[brewcity77]

+1.  He hasn't ever been a playmaker.  If it's everyone else's fault for not making him look good he's always going to have that excuse.  If he was supposed to do nothing, I suppose he did it well.  But that's the role of a backup, not 38 minutes.

He put Mayo, Jamil, and Jake in position to take 31 shots. Is it somehow Derrick's fault that they missed 27 of them? I get that it's popular to scapegoat Derrick, but how is it that Dawson is the savior based on his performance against Grambling while Derrick is criticized for his despite clearly outplaying Dawson in the same game? How many assists has Derrick not been credited for this season because guys ended up at the line or missed their shots? I think most people expected him to be a caretaker. He's created chances. Not his fault the guys on the other end haven't finished them.

And how many turnovers if they didn't run over to rescue him the many times he got in trouble by picking up his dribble because someone was within five feet of him?

Motion is part of the offense, coming to rescue a guy who picks up his dribble should be everyone's responsibility. The reality is Derrick turned it over twice yesterday. Against one of the best defenses in the country I'll take that.

Those three guys were 7/17 against Southern, 41% from the floor. If they go 41% from the floor against Ohio State, we win that game. Instead they shot 12% and we lost. So let's pile on the guy whose job is to give them chances (and did) rather than the guys that are expected to convert chances (and didn't).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wilson* is a problem.













*I'm not talking about Derrick.

[keefe]

He put Mayo, Jamil, and Jake in position to take 31 shots. Is it somehow Derrick's fault that they missed 27 of them? I get that it's popular to scapegoat Derrick, but how is it that Dawson is the savior based on his performance against Grambling while Derrick is criticized for his despite clearly outplaying Dawson in the same game? How many assists has Derrick not been credited for this season because guys ended up at the line or missed their shots? I think most people expected him to be a caretaker. He's created chances. Not his fault the guys on the other end haven't finished them.


Motion is part of the offense, coming to rescue a guy who picks up his dribble should be everyone's responsibility. The reality is Derrick turned it over twice yesterday. Against one of the best defenses in the country I'll take that.

Those three guys were 7/17 against Southern, 41% from the floor. If they go 41% from the floor against Ohio State, we win that game. Instead they shot 12% and we lost. So let's pile on the guy whose job is to give them chances (and did) rather than the guys that are expected to convert chances (and didn't).

What is the more absurd? People obsessing about the team's play yesterday or you obsessing about people obsessing about the team's play yesterday. Things must be mighty slow at the fire house.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wilson* is a problem.













*I'm not talking about Derrick.

This one?

[bilsu]

I have no problem with starting Dawson, but let's not kid ourselves that he's going to turn a poor outside shooting team into a good one.

Why can you guys not understand that Dawson is not the answer. Buzz did not even give him a second of play, which should tell you something. I do think Juan should start over Jamil.

[tower912]

Agreed.  What we need most is (in order):

1) Jamil to want to put the team on his back and be the man.  This is worrisome because he has yet to show any inclination to want to do that.

2) DG to play with the same fire on both ends of the court.  Our team defense takes a huge downgrade with him on the floor...we can't have him playing big minutes for his offense when his D is so bad.  OSU big run yesterday came with him on the floor and doing nothing to contest layups.  Understand if he was contesting shots but unwilling to do so too aggresively due to fouls, but he was not in position to even contest.

3) The entire team, but mostly Steve and Juan, to be more aggressive on offense.  Those two in particular have skills, but both look too hesitant.  Our offense looks bad because it looks like nobody wants to be the guy to shoot.  Everyone needs to get over that and quick. 

4) Todd to rein it in just a little.  Hard to criticize him for yesterday as nobody else was doing anything offensively and he at least was trying, but some of that aggression could be used to break down the defense then provide opportunities for others, rather than attempting some impossible shot.

5) Time to gel as a team, particularly on offense.  They will figure out how to make it work. 

Good stuff.   To my eyes, the far more worrisome thing than DeWilson was the lack of leadership, passion, energy, will from the seniors.   Where was the help defense during the second half OSU run?   After Gardner got his second foul, why did he never again take the ball aggressively to the basket?  Why can't he read a double team?   After posting up strong to start the second half, why did Otule never post aggressively again?   And Jamil.....that much talent mixed with too much deference.   

[brewcity77]

What is the more absurd? People obsessing about the team's play yesterday or you obsessing about people obsessing about the team's play yesterday. Things must be mighty slow at the fire house.

I'd go with you obsessing about my obsessing with other people's obsessing about the team's play yesterday. But I suppose it's natural for you to come in and pointlessly snipe, it seems to be what you do best.

[keefe]

I'd go with you obsessing about my obsessing with other people's obsessing about the team's play yesterday. But I suppose it's natural for you to come in and pointlessly snipe, it seems to be what you do best.

People are expressing themselves. You are one of a handful who feel they own the content here. Your opinion is no more valid than others. Lecturing others here seems to be the high point of your day. Pathetic, actually. Go take Sparky for a walk.

[tower912]

Seriously, Keefe?   You lecturing someone else about lecturing?   Look up 'irony'.

[GGGG]

Why can you guys not understand that Dawson is not the answer. Buzz did not even give him a second of play, which should tell you something. I do think Juan should start over Jamil.

I don't think Dawson is the answer either.  I just think that if you are going to give anyone more exposure to the PG minutes, it should be him.  Might as well.

[GGGG]

Seriously, Keefe?   You lecturing someone else about lecturing?   Look up 'irony'.

When keefe does it, he is merely imparting his wisdom.

[NersEllenson]

He put Mayo, Jamil, and Jake in position to take 31 shots. Is it somehow Derrick's fault that they missed 27 of them? I get that it's popular to scapegoat Derrick, but how is it that Dawson is the savior based on his performance against Grambling while Derrick is criticized for his despite clearly outplaying Dawson in the same game? How many assists has Derrick not been credited for this season because guys ended up at the line or missed their shots? I think most people expected him to be a caretaker. He's created chances. Not his fault the guys on the other end haven't finished them.


Motion is part of the offense, coming to rescue a guy who picks up his dribble should be everyone's responsibility. The reality is Derrick turned it over twice yesterday. Against one of the best defenses in the country I'll take that.

Those three guys were 7/17 against Southern, 41% from the floor. If they go 41% from the floor against Ohio State, we win that game. Instead they shot 12% and we lost. So let's pile on the guy whose job is to give them chances (and did) rather than the guys that are expected to convert chances (and didn't).

Give me a break....Mayo practically created all 15 of his shots on his own.  Jamil went at the basket off the bounce more than usual...

Please remind me of 1 fast break Derrick Wilson led that resulted in an easy basket for his teammates.  Let's face it, there were plenty of defensive rebounds in the first half to try* to get out in transition.

Please cite 1 example of Derrick collapsing the defense in the paint and dishing to one of our bigs for an easy lay in?

The sad thing for you Brew is that once you get into a debate about a player, you see things through a ridiculously biased lens, to try to fit into your hypothesis, and the reality is that the evidence doesn't support your hypothesis.

We can debate if Dawson would have done better, he very likely may not have - but its hard to debate if he'd have done worse.  OSU didn't pick up full court against MU, we faced no press, and I think its safe to say Dawson could have handled himself effectively.

[Lighthouse 84]

I don't think Dawson is the answer either.  I just think that if you are going to give anyone more exposure to the PG minutes, it should be him.  Might as well.

I agree with this. Without DuWil, the next minutes default to Dawson.  But if a team is going to sag off Derrick, and why wouldn't they, he isn't going to be able to pass into the post and he certainly not going to make any shots.

[GGGG]

Give me a break....Mayo practically created all 15 of his shots on his own.  Jamil went at the basket off the bounce more than usual...

Please remind me of 1 fast break Derrick Wilson led that resulted in an easy basket for his teammates.  Let's face it, there were plenty of defensive rebounds in the first half to try* to get out in transition.

Please cite 1 example of Derrick collapsing the defense in the paint and dishing to one of our bigs for an easy lay in?

The sad thing for you Brew is that once you get into a debate about a player, you see things through a ridiculously biased lens, to try to fit into your hypothesis, and the reality is that the evidence doesn't support your hypothesis.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  It's been awhile since I've seen irony this beautiful!

And Todd and Jamil missed plenty of jumpers.  Plenty.  Todd was 1-6 from three.  Jamil 0-3.  Jake 0-6.

[NersEllenson]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  It's been awhile since I've seen irony this beautiful!

And Todd and Jamil missed plenty of jumpers.  Plenty.  Todd was 1-6 from three.  Jamil 0-3.  Jake 0-6.

Please cite an example....or are you going to pull out the Vander/DJ Newbill argument....which I think is safe to say was a wash at minimum.  Newbill's a good player..you gonna deny that?  Gardner?  Went at it with Brew over him and Blue the first 2 years - gonna deny Gardner didn't perform well?  Hell, I even said Jake Thomas would be more than a typical walk on way back when he transferred to which you called me ridiculous....what's your take now?  He's getting big minutes against high level competition - which unfortunately hasn't worked out well at all...

[GGGG]

Please cite an example....or are you going to pull out the Vander/DJ Newbill argument....which I think is safe to say was a wash at minimum.

I think you just did it for me.  Thanks.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Please cite an example....or are you going to pull out the Vander/DJ Newbill argument....which I think is safe to say was a wash at minimum.  Newbill's a good player..you gonna deny that?  Gardner?  Went at it with Brew over him and Blue the first 2 years - gonna deny Gardner didn't perform well?  Hell, I even said Jake Thomas would be more than a typical walk on way back when he transferred to which you called me ridiculous....what's your take now?  He's getting big minutes against high level competition - which unfortunately hasn't worked out well at all...

What about your Todd Mayo prediction?

[NersEllenson]

What about your Todd Mayo prediction?

Oh...the bet we made about him being our 2nd leading scorer last year measured by points per 40 minutes??  Yeah....you sure "won" that bet by a landslide.....what he missed being 2nd leading scorer in points per 40 by what?  .007 ppg?  Wow...what a ridiculous prediction I made...

I still stand by my statement that Mayo has a lot of game and will be a good player at MU. He at least was assertive, created his own shots, and "finished" much like Vander Blue did in his career at MU...in fact almost identical to Vander's last game at MU against Syracuse in the Elite 8...here's Vander's numbers from that game..

40   3-15   2-9   6-7   2   5   2   0   0   4   1   14

[GGGG]

Oh...the bet we made about him being our 2nd leading scorer last year measured by points per 40 minutes??  Yeah....you sure "won" that bet by a landslide.....what he missed being 2nd leading scorer in points per 40 by what?  .007 ppg?  Wow...what a ridiculous prediction I made...

LOL....yeah....mostly because the denominator got f*cked with due to his suspension.