HBO Real Sports/Marist Poll About Concussions In Football

[jesmu84]

So you are dismissive of intel from troops in the trenches? Before an AFSOC team goes behind the lines it is provided reams of imint, sigint, and elint from NSA, CIA and the respective service intel communities. But no team ever goes outside the wire without finding every swinging dick who has been in your oparea recently so you can pick his brain for every possible piece of information that will not just help you kill tangos but will keep your men safe.

There is nothing trivial about first hand evidence. Overhead imagery and Predator feeds are great but I place greater value on the word of the Ranger or Seal who has crawled on those rocks. The AMA might endorse something but its perspective is materially different from the doctor providing primary care.    

Ok. I've spoken to many doctors, nurses and midlevel providers who all think that this will provide many with the healthcare they lacked in the past. So now what?

[4everwarriors]

Who, in this country, lacked access to healthcare?

[reinko]

I admitted my bias, try it yourself.  By the way, it's not just anecdotal.  It's funny seeing how many doctors are against this (cue the but but but the AMA supported it....LOL).

You haven't seen anything yet with this thing.  Wait until the 3 month payment grace period actually starts to trigger and the doctors and insurance companies have to pay for all the deadbeats...that's right...what do you think happens then...section 156.270..that's what happens on a 11,000 page bill is passed with no one knowing what is in it. 

The best line I have heard from doctors.  "If you need to pass it to see what's in it we call that a STOOL SAMPLE".  Never has something so proper ever been said.

Does it really matter?   Really,  I mean we are ALL going to die.

[jesmu84]

Who, in this country, lacked access to healthcare?

Those who couldnt afford to go to a primary care provider due to lack of insurance. Forced instead to use ERs or other methods that were worse for their long-term health.

[tower912]

Who, in this country, lacked access to healthcare?

I have lost count of the number of injured people who have told me that they can't go to the hospital, that they don't have any insurance, despite the stab wound, gunshot hole, clearly broken bone.   Young people, who didn't think they needed it, didn't have it provided for their part-time job, etc.    The emergency room visit for a genuine injury, sans insurance, is a bankruptcy causer.

[keefe]

Ok. I've spoken to many doctors, nurses and midlevel providers who all think that this will provide many with the healthcare they lacked in the past. So now what?

Read what I wrote. I am not taking sides in the ACA debate. I am saying that one must always listen to people who work with something on a daily basis. There is no substitute for personal insight. So the experience and comments of your health care contacts are as valid as those Chico cited.

There are people here who demand conformity to their position and are dismissive of other viewpoints. I am amazed at the closed-mindedness of so many here. I cannot understand how discourse is transfigured into a contest of will. Perhaps lives devoid of substance must find fulfillment in the mundane? Regardless, the inability to listen is execrable. Fr. Davitt who find it loathsome.

[jesmu84]

Read what I wrote. I am not taking sides in the ACA debate. I am saying that one must always listen to people who work with something on a daily basis. There is no substitute for personal insight. So the experience and comments of your health care contacts are as valid as those Chico cited.

There are people here who demand conformity to their position and are dismissive of other viewpoints. I am amazed at the closed-mindedness of so many here. I cannot understand how discourse is transfigured into a contest of will. Perhaps lives devoid of substance must find fulfillment in the mundane? Regardless, the inability to listen is execrable. Fr. Davitt who find it loathsome.

fair enough. Appreciate the viewpoint.

[4everwarriors]

I can say with 100% certainty, based on discussions with ER docs, that no one is denied care at either Children's or Froedtert emergency rooms. This includes those who come in for upset stomachs, dandruff, worts, hangovers, or other nonsense that taxes the system.

[keefe]

Who, in this country, lacked access to healthcare?

No one, Doc. One of my sisters and her husband are physicians. And every 4 years they take 6 weeks off from their practices and provide primary care for patients in the developing world through Médecins Sans Frontières. Their assignments have included work in Chad, Somalia, Nepal and Rwanda. People there truly lack access to health care.

My daughter is working on a grad degree in Public Health at Harvard. She worked clean water issues at the Gates Foundation. She has dealt with people in Swaziland, Darfur, and the Congo who have zero access to health care.

I have been trained as a field medic and our teams have provided immunizations for people in Afghanistan. Those people have no access to health care.  

There is no issue with the quality of health care in America. And everyone has access. The issue is in the ease of access. And everyone knows how you improve your ease of access. Study. Work hard. And understand the mechanisms that improve your access. It is that elementary.

[4everwarriors]

Solid and spot on.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who, in this country, lacked access to healthcare?

Nobody, but this whole thing is going to be A W E S O M E.

The race to the bottom is the awesomeness thing ever

[jesmu84]

Can anyone go to the ER? Sure. But that's not good for the economy/cost, which is what the argument here started about. As a provider, my bigger problem is that these people are missing out on much more preventative care and long-term term health improvemnt, as opposed to reactive care.

[GGGG]

No one, Doc. One of my sisters and her husband are physicians. And every 4 years they take 6 weeks off from their practices and provide primary care for patients in the developing world through Médecins Sans Frontières. Their assignments have included work in Chad, Somalia, Nepal and Rwanda. People there truly lack access to health care.

My daughter is working on a grad degree in Public Health at Harvard. She worked clean water issues at the Gates Foundation. She has dealt with people in Swaziland, Darfur, and the Congo who have zero access to health care.

I have been trained as a field medic and our teams have provided immunizations for people in Afghanistan. Those people have no access to health care.  

There is no issue with the quality of health care in America. And everyone has access. The issue is in the ease of access. And everyone knows how you improve your ease of access. Study. Work hard. And understand the mechanisms that improve your access. It is that elementary.

If that is the standard we are shooting for, no one is going to lack access to healthcare even after ACA.

[GGGG]

Nobody, but this whole thing is going to be A W E S O M E.

The race to the bottom is the awesomeness thing ever

Of course the real issue isn't access to health care.  The issue is how much that health care costs....and access to health insurance to help mitigate those costs. 

[4everwarriors]

Can anyone go to the ER? Sure. But that's not good for the economy/cost, which is what the argument here started about. As a provider, my bigger problem is that these people are missing out on much more preventative care and long-term term health improvemnt, as opposed to reactive care.
[/quot

If you think goin' to the ER is bad for the nation's economy, I can't begin to explain the tailspin  the ACA with lay on this country. It'll make the typhoon that blasted the Philippines look like a calm drizzle.

[brandx]

Read what I wrote. I am not taking sides in the ACA debate. I am saying that one must always listen to people who work with something on a daily basis. There is no substitute for personal insight. So the experience and comments of your health care contacts are as valid as those Chico cited.

There are people here who demand conformity to their position and are dismissive of other viewpoints. I am amazed at the closed-mindedness of so many here. I cannot understand how discourse is transfigured into a contest of will. Perhaps lives devoid of substance must find fulfillment in the mundane? Regardless, the inability to listen is execrable. Fr. Davitt who find it loathsome.

I seldom agree with your viewpoint, but this is very well written. We must look at all sides, and give every issue the common-sense first approach.

[Pakuni]

So you are dismissive of intel from troops in the trenches? Before an AFSOC team goes behind the lines it is provided reams of imint, sigint, and elint from NSA, CIA and the respective service intel communities. But no team ever goes outside the wire without finding every swinging dick who has been in your oparea recently so you can pick his brain for every possible piece of information that will not just help you kill tangos but will keep your men safe.

There is nothing trivial about first hand evidence. Overhead imagery and Predator feeds are great but I place greater value on the word of the Ranger or Seal who has crawled on those rocks. The AMA might endorse something but its perspective is materially different from the doctor providing primary care.    

Who exactly do you think makes up the AMA? (hint: doctors, many of whom provide primary care).
And, of course, it's not just the AMA that supports it. So does the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American College of Surgeons, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Society of Anesthesiologists, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American College of Cardiology.

http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2010/02/organized-medicine-on-hcr-updated-again.html

They may be right or wrong about what outcomes the ACA will bring. I have no idea, nor have I said one word in favor or in opposition to the Act. I lack both Chico's crystal ball and proclivity for schadenfreude. But it's sheer lunacy to suggest that the handful of doctors Chicos says he's spoken with are a better representation of the medical community's take in the issue than the organizations that represent hundreds of thousands of physicians. And, of course, I'm sure there's zero chance of confirmation bias entering the equation here when Chico's reports what he's heard.

As for your "troops in the trenches" analogy, would you really self-select a few soldiers and claim they speak for the entire corps? Cause that's pretty much Chico's position here.

[jesmu84]

I seldom agree with your viewpoint, but this is very well written. We must look at all sides, and give every issue the common-sense first approach.

+1. All too frequently, it becomes a power struggle. And common sense is rarely used.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I can say with 100% certainty, based on discussions with ER docs, that no one is denied care at either Children's or Froedtert emergency rooms. This includes those who come in for upset stomachs, dandruff, worts, hangovers, or other nonsense that taxes the system.

100% correct, because by law they could not prevent it.  100% access has always been there.

[Pakuni]

100% correct, because by law they could not prevent it.  100% access has always been there.

Of course it is.
Problem is, providing care that way costs us (we the insured, who pick up the tab for the uninsured) huge amounts of money.
The national average cost of an ER visit = $383.
The national average cost of a doctor's office visit = $60.

Call me crazy, but isn't it the economically wise thing to do here to find a way to get those people to the doctor's office (when it makes sense medically, of course) rather than the ER?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So the largest doctors' association supports it, but you know  doctors who oppose it, ergo, your opinion is right?
Got it.

What is my bias, by the way? I haven't said anything pro or con the ACA. I'm just poking fun at the notion that your chats with a handful of self-selected doctors means Armageddon is just around the corner.

Uhm, an ORGANIZATION supports it, not the MEMBERSHIP.  This isn't hard.

Over 70% oppose it in one survey, 64% in another.  Over 15,000 physicians asked. Just because an organization endorses it, doesn't mean the membership does.  It is far easier to get a few people to support something than the actual people that are involved.  This has been going on for years.  

You, of all people, know this.

[forgetful]

No one, Doc. One of my sisters and her husband are physicians. And every 4 years they take 6 weeks off from their practices and provide primary care for patients in the developing world through Médecins Sans Frontières. Their assignments have included work in Chad, Somalia, Nepal and Rwanda. People there truly lack access to health care.

My daughter is working on a grad degree in Public Health at Harvard. She worked clean water issues at the Gates Foundation. She has dealt with people in Swaziland, Darfur, and the Congo who have zero access to health care.

I have been trained as a field medic and our teams have provided immunizations for people in Afghanistan. Those people have no access to health care.  

There is no issue with the quality of health care in America. And everyone has access. The issue is in the ease of access. And everyone knows how you improve your ease of access. Study. Work hard. And understand the mechanisms that improve your access. It is that elementary.

Keefe, you made a great comment on listening and getting first hand information.  You might be wise to take some of your own advice here.  The poor neighborhoods of the US are full of people that studied and worked hard, but could not escape their lot in life because of inequality in opportunity.  These people do not have affordable access to health care.

[Hards Alumni]

Of course it is.
Problem is, providing care that way costs us (we the insured, who pick up the tab for the uninsured) huge amounts of money.
The national average cost of an ER visit = $383.
The national average cost of a doctor's office visit = $60.

Call me crazy, but isn't it the economically wise thing to do here to find a way to get those people to the doctor's office (when it makes sense medically, of course) rather than the ER?

No one cares to address this because it makes way too much sense.  Tow the line.

[Pakuni]

Uhm, an ORGANIZATION supports it, not the MEMBERSHIP.  This isn't hard.

Over 70% oppose it in one survey, 64% in another.  Over 15,000 physicians asked. Just because an organization endorses it, doesn't mean the membership does.  It is far easier to get a few people to support something than the actual people that are involved.  This has been going on for years.  

You, of all people, know this.

Links, please.

[ChicosBailBonds]

17% of American doctors belong to AMA (21% of that group are Med students).   In the 1970's, it was 75%.


Definitely an organization that represents the field.  LOL