Washington Redskins change their name

[ChicosBailBonds]

So 70% weren't offended?

Sounds like the Redskins are doing better among Native Americans than MU is doing among its own fans....

If it was 29%, then it was golden....but 30% is the magical number.  Rest assured, if the polls said 15%, that would be the number.  If it was 10%...that would be the number.

It's a moving target, and the number becomes whatever the number is. 

I'm hoping someone can answer for me why these Native Americans that support the name support it as they do? Why haven't then been enlightened and shown the way?

[GGGG]

If it was 29%, then it was golden....but 30% is the magical number.  Rest assured, if the polls said 15%, that would be the number.  If it was 10%...that would be the number.

No one said that Chicos.  Seriously you are the king of the strawman argument.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This gets more interesting with the new stadium Snyder wants to build.  He wants it at old RFK, but the D.C. city council wants the name changed....because the D.C. city council with folks like their ex crack buying mayor are the virtues of humanity...but I digress.

That leaves Maryland, which their current Governor is a bed wetter and won't let it happen, or Virginia.  Now Va's governor is our old friend Terry McAuliffe, who is a pragmatist.  Look for the new stadium to be built in Virginia and the name stays. 

[GooooMarquette]

Weren't offended or simply didn't care.

That's still better than MU has done with our name change....

[ChicosBailBonds]

Please, please, please, please, please have the Washington Redskins sign Michael Sam.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

The heads exploding from people that are against the nickname while at the same time can't wait for Sam to make a team (regardless if he is good enough or not) would be just too terrific to watch.

"Do I buy a jersey with Sam on the back to support him, or if I am I supporting the Nazis....I'm so conflicted"


Just the sheer spectacle would be great

[Lennys Tap]

If it was 29%, then it was golden....but 30% is the magical number.  Rest assured, if the polls said 15%, that would be the number.  If it was 10%...that would be the number.

It's a moving target, and the number becomes whatever the number is.  

I'm hoping someone can answer for me why these Native Americans that support the name support it as they do? Why haven't then been enlightened and shown the way?

In matters of right vs wrong I would hope that most MU grads wouldn't hide behind polls - that's where the bigots and the cowards are found.

Instead, I would expect some logic. Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Is the term "redskin" a racial slur? The answer, BY DEFINITION, is yes.

That FACT having been established,

2. Is it a good, bad or indifferent idea to use racial slurs as nicknames for NFL (or any other) teams?

I conclude bad.

If you want to convince me to the contrary, you'll have to make a substantive argument. That 70% (or 80% or 90%) of the Native Americans polled don't know that "redskin" is a slur or don't care that it is won't win the day.

Words have meaning. It's usually the PC crowd that neglects that. They take neutral or even laudatory ones like Braves or Warriors and stand them on their heads. When you do the exact same thing with an as defined slur like "redskin" you play right into their hands. Think about it.

[Coleman]

In matters of right vs wrong I would hope that most MU grads wouldn't hide behind polls - that's where the bigots and the cowards are found.

Instead, I would expect some logic. Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Is the term "redskin" a racial slur? The answer, BY DEFINITION, is yes.

That FACT having been established,

2. Is it a good, bad or indifferent idea to use a racial slurs as nicknames for NFL (or any other) teams?

I conclude bad.

If you want to convince me to the contrary, you'll have to make a substantive argument. That 70% (or 80% or 90%) of the Native Americans polled don't know that "redskin" is a slur or don't care that it is won't win the day.

Words have meaning. It's usually the PC crowd that neglects that. They take neutral or even laudatory ones like Braves or Warriors and stand them on their heads. When you do the exact same thing with an as defined slur like "redskin" you play right into their hands. Think about it.

Well said

[ChicosBailBonds]

New poll out today

71% say keep the name.


And another poll, this time of Washington Redskins players.   26 say keep the name, 1 said change it, 24 did not answer.  96% support among those that answered.



Still wondering where those updated polls are from Native Americans that are against the name?  Keep waiting. As my guy down at Turner said (they own CNN), they didn't like the initial polling they got (translation...it didn't fit the agenda) so you won't see anything for some time. 

[GGGG]

And another poll, this time of Washington Redskins players.   

Who cares?

[Spotcheck Billy]

New poll out today

71% say keep the name.


And another poll, this time of Washington Redskins players.   26 say keep the name, 1 said change it, 24 did not answer.  96% support among those that answered.



Still wondering where those updated polls are from Native Americans that are against the name?  Keep waiting. As my guy down at Turner said (they own CNN), they didn't like the initial polling they got (translation...it didn't fit the agenda) so you won't see anything for some time.  

I wonder how the players cut over the weekend would answer that poll?   

[brandx]

New poll out today

71% say keep the name.


And another poll, this time of Washington Redskins players.   26 say keep the name, 1 said change it, 24 did not answer.  96% support among those that answered.

In other words, 50.9% of Redskins players say they supported the name. 47% did not.

In other news, Chicos is holding out hope that the Redskins will sign Jim Thorpe to prove that his 450 posts on this subject are indeed correct.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If you want to run to the polls to determine if the name is kept, fine. Keep the name... for now.

In another 5 years, the polls will likely say something else.

At that point, everybody going to be cool with changing it, right?

[Lennys Tap]

If you want to run to the polls to determine if the name is kept, fine. Keep the name... for now.

In another 5 years, the polls will likely say something else.

At that point, everybody going to be cool with changing it, right?

Wonder how this poll would go: Should professional sports teams have nicknames that are by definition racial slurs? Other than an enthusiastic yes from the Bail Bondsman I don't think the idea would garner all that much support.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wonder how this poll would go: Should professional sports teams have nicknames that are by definition racial slurs? Other than an enthusiastic yes from the Bail Bondsman I don't think the idea would garner all that much support.

Well, I don't really agree with Chico's viewpoint, but the poll numbers are interesting, and I understand how/why somebody would lean on the polls.

With that said, if we are using polls as the litmus test, we need to be prepared if/when we get a result we may not like.

Cultures/traditions/social norms/language change and evolve.

You can phrase the poll the exact same way in 5 years and get a different answer. If 51% of people are "offended", are the nickname supporters going to be happy to change the name then? I would guess no.

[Coleman]

Well, I don't really agree with Chico's viewpoint, but the poll numbers are interesting, and I understand how/why somebody would lean on the polls.

With that said, if we are using polls as the litmus test, we need to be prepared if/when we get a result we may not like.

Cultures/traditions/social norms/language change and evolve.

You can phrase the poll the exact same way in 5 years and get a different answer. If 51% of people are "offended", are the nickname supporters going to be happy to change the name then? I would guess no.

I think its also just the nature of the beast that whatever is currently in place is viewed as acceptable. Because it is what is and has always been. So you become socialized to it. Of course Redskins is fine, my dad cheered for them, we grew up with it, its part of Americana, its part of our culture, etc. etc. This makes it hard to actually look at it objectively.

If you take a step back and actually see it for what it is, its pretty obvious how racist the name is.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think its also just the nature of the beast that whatever is currently in place is viewed as acceptable. Because it is what is and has always been. So you become socialized to it. Of course Redskins is fine, my dad cheered for them, we grew up with it, its part of Americana, its part of our culture, etc. etc. This makes it hard to actually look at it objectively.

If you take a step back and actually see it for what it is, its pretty obvious how racist the name is.

I agree with you.

But, like I said, if nickname supporters are going to use the polls as evidence, I think that's ultimately a losing battle. Eventually, more than 50% of the people aren't going to support the name.

[keefe]

Jim Thorpe

My favorite Jim Thorpe story involves his meeting with the King of Sweden at the Stockholm Olympics. The US Delegation was briefed extensively on the correct protocol for meeting Swedish Royalty.

After Thorpe won the decathlon the Swedish Monarch insisted on meeting with Thorpe, telling him, "You are the world's greatest athlete!" Thorpe replied, "Hey, thanks, King!"

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree with you.

But, like I said, if nickname supporters are going to use the polls as evidence, I think that's ultimately a losing battle. Eventually, more than 50% of the people aren't going to support the name.

Maybe, but you have no idea if that is the case.  Nor the time horizon.  Lots of things are predicted, some even based on "science".  We're supposed to be out of ice this year, yet cap has grown 41% according to NASA year over year.  We were supposed to have terrible hurricane seasons the last 5 years, we've had below normal.  We're supposed to have increased global warming, now 19 straight years that isn't the case.  Unemployment was supposed to be down below 6% 4 years ago....still not.   

All kinds of predictions about the future, what's going to happen, what isn't.  No one knows, it is all speculation. 

As for the built in incumbancy factor....sure that exists to some extent.  However, the idea of change just to change isn't always the best strategy either.  I give you the remarks of several Native Americans who said changing the name means we will be all but forgotten and we major issues to deal with that you don't understand.  Our education, unemployment, alcoholism, etc, are far greater issues then a stupid nickname, but take away that nickname and we aren't even in the sports pages any longer. 

[MUsoxfan]

Only you can tie global warming and the unemployment rate to polling about a racial slur. But hey, when boxed into a corner, might as well reach for the biggest change of subject imaginable. That's the way you roll

[ChicosBailBonds]

Only you can tie global warming and the unemployment rate to polling about a racial slur. But hey, when boxed into a corner, might as well reach for the biggest change of subject imaginable. That's the way you roll

It was to show that predictions aren't reliable, and provided some examples to prove the point.  Sorry you can't follow along, but that's been a problem for you in many of these threads....remember, you are the self admitted meathead here.

I can use other predictive examples if you wish, but the ones I used were supposed to be air tight based on "science".  I could have used the Broncos SB prediction last year.  I could have used Dewey and Truman, or Leahy saying the Atom bomb will never work.  Or Olsen saying the world will only need 5 computers.  

[MUsoxfan]

It was to show that predictions aren't reliable, and provided some examples to prove the point.  Sorry you can't follow along, but that's been a problem for you in many of these threads....remember, you are a the self admitted meathead here.

I can use other predictive examples if you wish, but the ones I used were supposed to be air tight based on "science".  I could have used the Broncos SB prediction last year.  I could have used Dewey and Truman, or Leahy saying the Atom bomb will never work.  Or Olsen saying the world will only need 5 computers. 

Really, if you don't know the difference between science based polls and social based polls, I don't know what to tell you.

Look at polls even 10 years ago regarding such things as gay marriage, marijuana, women's rights, religion etc and compare them to today's polls. The writing is on the wall. The days of the NFL making money off of blatant racism are numbered

[Lennys Tap]

Maybe, but you have no idea if that is the case. 

How much you wanna bet, big boy?

[ChicosBailBonds]

[brandx]

Some people are very comfortable with their racial slurs.

But realistically, it's not a "white" thing. If you travel to India, people will talk a lot worse about some of the other ethnic groups there, just as it happens almost everywhere.

Still doesn't make it right though.

[MU82]

My sources tell me Snyder is going to change the team's name to ...

Scalping Savages!

It works on so many levels.

Numerous polls have shown that Injuns actually like being called savages because it has such a manly connotation - and that's just the squaws talking!

Says MMA star Dan Hornbuckle, a modern-day savage from the Cherokee tribe: "And how! For many moons, redskins like being called savages. Those who no like it ... me thinkum they stinkum!"

The scalping part, duh, what American wouldn't love being associated with an activity that goes back centuries? It's a heap-big tradition - every bit as fun as other all-American traditions such as slavery and torture! - and that's reason enough to justify any nickname! The Injuns have the powerful NTA (National Tomahawk Association) lobby pouring money into Congress to make sure there never is any meaningful tomahawk-control legislation. So what if a 9-year-old accidentally killed her instructor at a scalping range? That's life; deal with it!

As Pocahontas famously said: "Back off, paleface. You'll have to pry this tomahawk from my cold, dead hands!"

The Scalping Savages. I think Snyder has a winner there!