Washington Redskins change their name

[brandx]

Again, most Native Americans don't feel this way about the name Redskins. Fundamentally I do not understand why so many people fail to process the difference.  It is not a slur if you do not feel slurred against.  The origins of the word were not suspect, despite every push from the left to make that history up.  The dictionary didn't qualify the word in this fashion until the late 1960's and only one dictionary at that....took almost 15 years later for the second one to do so.  The name was in place since the 1930's put in by a Native American coach who we're now told by some people that he wasn't Native American (even though he convinced a 100% Native American school to admit him and stay their his whole year...he must have been one hell of an illusionist).  The revisionist history has been fun to watch.

Of course you don't know this to be true. Yet you have repeated the same thing about 40 times in this thread.

Anything original to say or will you just keep flooding the thread until everyone tires of you?

[MU82]

Lamest test I've seen and it's been tried many times here and destroyed here many times.  Do you approach an Irish person and say "hey Irish guy"?  No.  Do you go up to a woman and say "hey female"?  NO.  It's just completely stupid analogy, sorry...but just ridiculous on all levels.   You would say "excuse me, sir" or "excuse me, maam".  Same as you would address anyone else.  No one addresses anyone by any other means.  I'm not going up to some guy and say "hey American"...."hey Chinese American"...."hey Polish American"....it's just absurd and I don't know why people (the left especially) come up with this lame "test". It's not simple, it's simply dumb.

You've provided the same lame answer to this supposedly lame test.

Nobody is saying to go up to an Indian and say: "Hey, redskin," any more than we are proposing you go up to a black person and say, "Hey, n-word," or a Polish person and say, "Hey, Polack" or, for that matter, a Christian and say, "Hey, Christian."

What I am saying is go into an Indian casino or a high school classroom on a reservation or some other place where Native Americans congregate and enter into a calm, serious discussion with them. "So, what does the redskin community think about current casino laws?" Or "How are economics of reservations going for today's redskins?"

No sane person would use the word "redskins" in those contexts because every sane person knows it would be construed as a slur and would immediately ice the discussion. Might even result in bodily harm. Meanwhile, substitute "Native American" or "American Indian" for "redskin" in the above examples and it would result in a perfectly fine conversation. (And I doubt any of the Indians would say, "You know, we actually prefer to be called 'redskins'!")

I would have no problem having a discussion about races/nationalities with blacks or Latinos or Chinese people or Indians. I don't believe the discussions would go so well if I referred to them as slurs in casual conversation.

"Hey (anything)" is not a conversation. Nobody talks like that, but you keep trying it as your default straw man argument.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm sure they would, and universally that would be the accepted reaction.  I'm sure they have tobacco ads they used to run.  I'm sure they have articles in the 1970's about how the earth is going to cool and global ice age is coming they wish they never ran.  I'm sure they ran pieces about Betty homemaker that probably makes their skin crawl.  

Again, most Native Americans don't feel this way about the name Redskins. Fundamentally I do not understand why so many people fail to process the difference.  It is not a slur if you do not feel slurred against.  The origins of the word were not suspect, despite every push from the left to make that history up.  The dictionary didn't qualify the word in this fashion until the late 1960's and only one dictionary at that....took almost 15 years later for the second one to do so.  The name was in place since the 1930's put in by a Native American coach who we're now told by some people that he wasn't Native American (even though he convinced a 100% Native American school to admit him and stay their his whole student career..he must have been one hell of an illusionist to not be Native American but convince a school for Native Americans, run by Native Americans and created by Native Americans that he was a Native American....a regular David Copperfield).  The revisionist history has been fun to watch.

In the meantime, I came into the lobby today, Rich Eisen was doing his show (the set is based in our lobby where he does his live show) and there was Redskins stuff all over the place.  It was rather fun....I enjoyed it.  It's a team nickname, a nickname in which most Native Americans don't have an issue with it.  It's a private matter.  Don't like it, don't buy tickets, don't buy merchandise, don't watch on tv (they are dreadful team, so that's not hard to do).   I'm good with that.   If it is so abhorrent, so universally loathed, the name will be dropped for economic reasons, because people will not feel proud to wear the gear, go to the games, etc....especially those that are Native Americans that do so now, or get a Redskins tatoo, etc, etc. 

To each their own.

I agree with your free market principles on the ultimate outcome of the name... but the first part of your post is just waaaaaay to political. Take that stuff out of it. You don't need it. Not everything is liberals vs conservatives.

You don't think it's a slur, and you think the free market should decide it's fate. Boom. Fine. Done.

When you get into all of the political stuff, you sound like some sort of maniac who is scared to death of the evil liberal agenda. Forget that stuff dude... it's not applicable here.

[keefe]

You've provided the same lame answer to this supposedly lame test.

Nobody is saying to go up to a Christian and say, "Hey, Christian."

Or worse, "Pork Eating Crusader"

Oh, wait, some people do say that about Christians...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nobody is saying to go up to an Indian and say: "Hey, redskin," any more than we are proposing you go up to a black person and say, "Hey, n-word," or a Polish person and say, "Hey, Polack" or, for that matter, a Christian and say, "Hey, Christian."

Uhm, yes, that is exactly what some people are saying. 

What I am saying is go into an Indian casino or a high school classroom on a reservation or some other place where Native Americans congregate and enter into a calm, serious discussion with them. "So, what does the redskin community think about current casino laws?" Or "How are economics of reservations going for today's redskins?"

So my example where I'm at a Native American school cheering on their football team, which happened to be called the Redskins (is this not a place where Native Americans congregate?) is off base?  Or does it not count because....wait for it...we're cheering on a football team as a nickname?  Oh the irony. Incidentally, what you suggested in your example, which is equally absurd, was essentially done by the San Diego news when they went to an Indian reservation a few months ago to inquire about the nickname.  By my count, 80% on camera said they didn't give one rip about the nickname and had far bigger issues to deal with.  It was, serious discussion with them.

No sane person would use the word "redskins" in those contexts because every sane person knows it would be construed as a slur and would immediately ice the discussion. Might even result in bodily harm. Meanwhile, substitute "Native American" or "American Indian" for "redskin" in the above examples and it would result in a perfectly fine conversation. (And I doubt any of the Indians would say, "You know, we actually prefer to be called 'redskins'!")

Ahh, so now Native Americans that don't believe it is a slur, believe it is an honorable name are now not sane!  Cool.  Lenny calls them dumb, ignorant, stupid and now you are calling these people not sane.  Awesome.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree with your free market principles on the ultimate outcome of the name... but the first part of your post is just waaaaaay to political. Take that stuff out of it. You don't need it. Not everything is liberals vs conservatives.

You don't think it's a slur, and you think the free market should decide it's fate. Boom. Fine. Done.

When you get into all of the political stuff, you sound like some sort of maniac who is scared to death of the evil liberal agenda. Forget that stuff dude... it's not applicable here.

I am afraid of stupid people with stupid agendas that are upset they didn't get it on with the head cheerleader or whatever has them so bent for so many years that try to make decisions out of spite to penalize others.  Stupidity can be had on the left and the right, but for issues like this it is usually the pants pissers leading the charge.  It is what it is.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am afraid of stupid people with stupid agendas that are upset they didn't get it on with the head cheerleader or whatever has them so bent for so many years that try to make decisions out of spite to penalize others.  Stupidity can be had on the left and the right, but for issues like this it is usually the pants pissers leading the charge.  It is what it is.

Well, then this topic is over, lock it up, mods.

If you like the name and you don't think it's a slur, fine. We can have a debate on that.

If you just think this whole thing is some sort of secret liberal agenda, then no, we can't talk about it because you aren't dealing in reality. You're just here to show everybody how the "pants pissers" are leading the charge, which isn't an honest conversation/debate, it's just ranting.

[Lennys Tap]

I am afraid of stupid people with stupid agendas that are upset they didn't get it on with the head cheerleader or whatever has them so bent for so many years that try to make decisions out of spite to penalize others.  Stupidity can be had on the left and the right, but for issues like this it is usually the pants pissers leading the charge.  It is what it is.

Deranged ramblings and ad hominems from a man without an argument. Redskins is a racial slur. It was used that way for decades in popular culture and earned its definition. That's right, its definition. The one in every English dictionary. Stupid? LOL. You know what's stupid? Clinging to bigotry and racism because of "tradition".

[Coleman]

I am afraid of stupid people with stupid agendas that are upset they didn't get it on with the head cheerleader or whatever has them so bent for so many years that try to make decisions out of spite to penalize others.  Stupidity can be had on the left and the right, but for issues like this it is usually the pants pissers leading the charge.  It is what it is.

This post shows me your argument has no leg to stand on. Discussion over.