Washington Redskins change their name

[Lennys Tap]

Native Americans (some) want Redskins changed.  Native Americans (some) want Blackhawks change.


You're right, we draw different lines.  When it is YOUR team, then hands off.  When it is someone else's team, God forbid.  Doesn't matter if the same Native Americans want both gone, tsk tsk.

What you describe as common sense, others will say hypocrisy.  What you describe as not all that offensive (in your view), some Native Americans disagree.

Apparently they are just all too hot and bothered for some names, but not bothered enough for others.  The good news is that we have arbiters such as yourself to help us decide.

People can be offended by whatever they choose. PETA may be offended by animals as mascots/nicknames. Muslims may be offended by a nickname like Crusaders. And on and on and on. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. And to that I laugh and say "Get over yourself" and most of the world laughs with me. But I do draw a line. A common sense line that says no to racial slurs and other obviously inappropriate nicknames. So I'll say no to the Washington Redskins, Dagos, Ni$$ers, Co#%suckers, etc.. But, Lenny, you say, only 30% of the Co#%suckers find that nickname repugnant and want it changed. Most don't care, some even like it. Too bad, I still think it has to go. And it in no way makes me a hypocrite or someone disparaging of the co#%suckers who disagree with me. When you have no line, and insist that nothing, even a racial slur, is out of bounds you totally cede the moral high ground to the professionally, permanently offended. By being a pig and insisting on everything you'll end up with nothing except your morally superior attitude. Is that what you want?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Really???  Who?

Fighting Irish

Vancouver Canucks

Edmonton Eskimos

Etc, etc

[keefe]

People can be offended by whatever they choose. Muslims may be offended by a nickname like Crusaders.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!

Lenny, you got this one backwards. The Taliban began calling the coalition forces "Crusaders" which has been a term of hate for infidels for centuries. The Taliban added "pork-eating" for extra measure in their polemic of hatred for us. The aim point on "Pork Eating Crusader" is on American troops. It is so absurdly strange that it has been embraced by American, British, Danish, Polish, Japanese, German, etc... troops in the ISAF.

People like that idiot brewcity couldn't see that important distinction.   

[Lennys Tap]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!

Lenny, you got this one backwards. The Taliban began calling the coalition forces "Crusaders" which has been a term of hate for infidels for centuries. The Taliban added "pork-eating" for extra measure in their polemic of hatred for us. The aim point on "Pork Eating Crusader" is on American troops. It is so absurdly strange that it has been embraced by American, British, Danish, Polish, Japanese, German, etc... troops in the ISAF.

People like that idiot brewcity couldn't see that important distinction.   

Crash - as I said, I don't give a shyte if some Muslims are offended by the nickname "Crusaders" - to me that's their problem and they're welcome to it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

People can be offended by whatever they choose. PETA may be offended by animals as mascots/nicknames. Muslims may be offended by a nickname like Crusaders. And on and on and on. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. And to that I laugh and say "Get over yourself" and most of the world laughs with me. But I do draw a line. A common sense line that says no to racial slurs and other obviously inappropriate nicknames. So I'll say no to the Washington Redskins, Dagos, Ni$$ers, Co#%suckers, etc.. But, Lenny, you say, only 30% of the Co#%suckers find that nickname repugnant and want it changed. Most don't care, some even like it. Too bad, I still think it has to go. And it in no way makes me a hypocrite or someone disparaging of the co#%suckers who disagree with me. When you have no line, and insist that nothing, even a racial slur, is out of bounds you totally cede the moral high ground to the professionally, permanently offended. By being a pig and insisting on everything you'll end up with nothing except your morally superior attitude. Is that what you want?

I think, at times, you are making a common sense argument.  Unfortunately, many are not and it is an all or nothing scenario, and that is part of my issue.  You basically are saying that those Native American groups that want all Native American imagery gone, have ceded their moral authority.  Is that correct?  And by what honor do you get to make that assertion on their behalf? 

What I want?  Simple. It's a private matter.  Period.  End. Of. Story.  You want to call your team the Cowboys even though girls might not like it, fine.  You want to call yourself Crusaders, Catholics, Banana Slugs, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Broncos, I don't care. 

I especially don't like seeing people that have not one drop of Native American blood in them getting to tell actual Native Americans that a term is a slur, when they don't think it is.  You are essentially telling them that your opinion is superior to theirs, that they are dumb.  That, is where you lose the moral high ground.

[keefe]

Crash - as I said, I don't give a shyte if some Muslims are offended by the nickname "Crusaders" - to me that's their problem and they're welcome to it.

Well, as a Pork Eating Crusader I thank you for the clarification.

But think of the irony - Islamic fundamentalists have called non-believers "Crusaders" for a thousand years. And some people are offended that the victims of that hateful polemic adopt the very term that was meant to diminish their humanity? I don't get their point.

"Hey! You can't find humor in coopting our message of hate! How dare you...you...you..PORK EATING CRUSADER!"

Anyone who thinks Prince Harry or Gen Odierno are religious intolerants because they have that patch are idiots.

[🏀]

So this is still going, eh?

[keefe]

People can be offended by whatever they choose. PETA

The PETA reference made me recall a stunning episode from 1995 when I was living in Hongkong. A group of us popped out for lunch and were headed down Queen's Road Central when about 8 drop dead gorgeous, long-stemmed fashion model quality but with tits women began a PETA-sponsored anti fur protest right there in the heart of Hongkong. Completely buck naked but for their smiles these women were upholding a cause whose message really didn't matter.

One of my colleagues commented as we entered the restaurant, "well, I rather want this PETA to continue their campaign at least fortnightly."

[ChicosBailBonds]

So this is still going, eh?

It will be until liberals can take another scalp, then they will move on to the next outrage.

[GGGG]

Fighting Irish

Vancouver Canucks

Edmonton Eskimos

Etc, etc

These aren't "derogatory white names."

The first two are nationalities.

The third is Native American.

[ChicosBailBonds]

These aren't "derogatory white names."

The first two are nationalities.

The third is Native American.

In your opinion.  There are people that do find those terms derogatory and associate with white, that's the point.  The logo used for Fighting Irish is a white man.  Canuck is considered an ethnic slur originally against French WHITE Canadians.

Eskimos are Native American, I agree, but some can be categorized as mixed caucasion.  Never heard the term blonde eskimo?   If you wish, happy to remove that one. 

Point is, all in the eye of the beholder. 

[rocket surgeon]

if "thee" have the power to giveth, "thee" has the power to taketh away.  careful what one wishes for.  if something were deemed to be "racist" or inappropriate, the people will speak with their wallets

[ChicosBailBonds]

if "thee" have the power to giveth, "thee" has the power to taketh away.  careful what one wishes for.  if something were deemed to be "racist" or inappropriate, the people will speak with their wallets

Unless they are part of the great unwashed and they don't know better, then the elite and unsullied have to guide them and show them the errors of their ways.

[brandx]

Fighting Irish

Vancouver Canucks

Edmonton Eskimos

Etc, etc

Wow!!

Irish is a derogatory term? Then, I'm guessing you are offended when you are called an American.

Canucks? Again, your white-centic sensibility is leaking through. (Don't tell no one, but all Canadians aren't white). Canuck is a term for Canadian - doesn't matter whether they are white, black, eskimo, indian, etc.

Eskimo? Don't have any clue what your problem is with them. But two things. #1 - they aren't white and #2 - I don't know what they have ever done to you to think that the word Eskimo is derogatory. Unless their mascot is clubbing baby seals to death.

I'm surprised you aren't leading the fight to shut down American University. How dare they use such a derogatory term for their name.

[rocket surgeon]

Unless they are part of the great unwashed and they don't know better, then the elite and unsullied have to guide them and show them the errors of their ways.

for those of you from rio linda, that means INDOCTRINATION.  there are veys and there are other veys.  and some of zeez are not so pleasant

[keefe]

for those of you from rio linda

Did you buy some land from Ricky Roma?

One of my very favorite movies from one of my wife's favorite playwrights. David Mamet is an American treasure.

[rocket surgeon]

Did you buy some land from Ricky Roma?

One of my very favorite movies from one of my wife's favorite playwrights. David Mamet is an American treasure.

nope, but you got me to look it up and looks quite interesting/entertaining and thanks for the heads-up.  i'll watch out for this ricky character as i am looking to buy another house.   the phrase is actually from rush limbaugh(oh no, not one of those guys) as he playfully refers to rio linda as a place where low info people reside.  so he jokingly spells things out a little more for the 3 or 4 from rio linda who might be listening in. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wow!!

Irish is a derogatory term? Then, I'm guessing you are offended when you are called an American.

Canucks? Again, your white-centic sensibility is leaking through. (Don't tell no one, but all Canadians aren't white). Canuck is a term for Canadian - doesn't matter whether they are white, black, eskimo, indian, etc.

Eskimo? Don't have any clue what your problem is with them. But two things. #1 - they aren't white and #2 - I don't know what they have ever done to you to think that the word Eskimo is derogatory. Unless their mascot is clubbing baby seals to death.

I'm surprised you aren't leading the fight to shut down American University. How dare they use such a derogatory term for their name.

A bit disingenious, even for you.

1) Funny, you left out a part of it.   FIGHTING.  I keep hearing words have meanings.

FIGHTING IRISH, which goes back to a time when the Irish were labeled as drunks that fought in this country because they had too much to drink. The name isn't Irish, it is FIGHTING Irish.  Before you get too wound up, I know the origins of the name for Notre Dame Fighting Irish, but as I've also been told here, "definitions change".

2) TODAY, the term is for Canadians and it is considered derogatory.  The origins of the word were for WHITE French Canadians.  Please, know and learn your history.

3) I don't find Eskimo's derogatory, nor do I find Canucks or FIGHTING IRISH derogatory....SOME PEOPLE, do.   So, no, Eskimos did nothing to me, neither have Redskins. You are wrong about Eskimos being solely white.  You are also wrong about it being derogatory to some people.  Not surprising.  The preferred word is Inuit, as Eskimo is considered a pejorative.  Think "Oriental" instead of Asian.  There are actually three main peoples that are lumped into Eskimos, Inuit, Yupik and the Aleut.

You are welcome.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did you buy some land from Ricky Roma?

One of my very favorite movies from one of my wife's favorite playwrights. David Mamet is an American treasure.

Also one of my favorite movies of all time.  It's one of the few times I can watch Alec Baldwin on the big screen and not get queasy.  Pacino is great as Roma.  Tremendous cast, wonderful writing. 

[keefe]

Also one of my favorite movies of all time.  It's one of the few times I can watch Alec Baldwin on the big screen and not get queasy.  Pacino is great as Roma.  Tremendous cast, wonderful writing. 

Glengarry Glen Ross has stellar dialogue and each role was cast perfectly. Lemmon and Arkin are particularly wonderful together...Mamet's precision of script has never been done better. Poetry in motion.

Everyone remembers Baldwin's scene but the magic is in how Mamet etches pathos and poignancy into the discourse. Spacey was exceptionally vile as the office manager and his last statement to Lemmon is one of the most devastating putdowns ever: "Because I don't LIKE you!"  Crushing. If one is not totally devoid of feeling by the end of that play you missed it completely.

[MUsoxfan]

Eskimo? Don't have any clue what your problem is with them. But two things. #1 - they aren't white and #2 - I don't know what they have ever done to you to think that the word Eskimo is derogatory. Unless their mascot is clubbing baby seals to death.

They apparently prefer to be referred to as "Inuit" and consider Eskimo to be a derogatory term. I've read one article on the matter, so I'm hardly an expert

[keefe]

They apparently prefer to be referred to as "Inuit" and consider Eskimo to be a derogatory term. I've read one article on the matter, so I'm hardly an expert

We sent some time at Cold Lake CFB, AB which is way the hell up there. During our In-Briefing our hosts said that we should not say "Indian" but, rather, "First Nations." Also, there were many Inuit in the area so we should use that term rather than anything else.

In Singapore, which is multi-racial and has a large Indian community, the term for Native Americans is "Red Indian." Malays will also refer to an ethnic Chinese male as, "Chinaman." At first I thought it odd but then noticed that even ethnic Chinese use that term to describe one of their own. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Breaking News: Washington Redskins drop the word "Washington" from their name because it's embarrassing.

[MU82]

Glengarry Glen Ross has stellar dialogue and each role was cast perfectly. Lemmon and Arkin are particularly wonderful together...Mamet's precision of script has never been done better. Poetry in motion.

Everyone remembers Baldwin's scene but the magic is in how Mamet etches pathos and poignancy into the discourse. Spacey was exceptionally vile as the office manager and his last statement to Lemmon is one of the most devastating putdowns ever: "Because I don't LIKE you!"  Crushing. If one is not totally devoid of feeling by the end of that play you missed it completely.

I agree with everything you say here. Amazing writing, acting, directing, timing, interactions, everything.

I will add that everyone remembers Alec Baldwin's scene because, IMHO, it is among the best -- or at least most intense -- 7 minutes in movie history.

In doing a little research on it a few years ago, I learned that there was no Baldwin character in the play. Mamet was extremely loyal to the play, but it was too short to be a movie and he had to add something. So that's what he added, which says as much about Mamet's incredible talent as anything.

I have lots of friends who don't like Alec Baldwin, not as a person or an actor. I don't know him as a person (though he does seem to be a tool), but he has done some very good acting, including lots of his stuff on 30 Rock. Anyway, for those who think Baldwin can't act at all, I show them that 7-minute, 8-second clip from Glengarry Glen Ross. Even they can only say, "Wow."

[keefe]

I agree with everything you say here. Amazing writing, acting, directing, timing, interactions, everything.

I will add that everyone remembers Alec Baldwin's scene because, IMHO, it is among the best -- or at least most intense -- 7 minutes in movie history.

In doing a little research on it a few years ago, I learned that there was no Baldwin character in the play. Mamet was extremely loyal to the play, but it was too short to be a movie and he had to add something. So that's what he added, which says as much about Mamet's incredible talent as anything.

I have lots of friends who don't like Alec Baldwin, not as a person or an actor. I don't know him as a person (though he does seem to be a tool), but he has done some very good acting, including lots of his stuff on 30 Rock. Anyway, for those who think Baldwin can't act at all, I show them that 7-minute, 8-second clip from Glengarry Glen Ross. Even they can only say, "Wow."

You are correct on Baldwin' Blake character. We saw Jeffrey Richards' Broadway production after the film and Blake wasn't part of that cast.

Mamet's work is characterized by its crisp, precise dialogue and the Blake scene is especially electric.

"First prize is a new car. Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is You're Fired!"

"Nice guy? I don't give a sh1t! Good father? F UCK YOU! Go home and play with your kids!"