Five Points for a National Championship...

[GooooMarquette]

That's a possibility as well.

[real chili 83]

Who's this Dr. Blackhart guy?

[TheBurrEffect]

I'm just amazed that he called Jamil and Otule Nba talent.

[keefe]

Who's this Dr. Blackhart guy?

Where did Blackheart go? He used to be a fixture here.

[leever]

Where did Blackheart go? He used to be a fixture here.

Blackheart to Virginia Tech!

[Skatastrophy]

Where did Blackheart go? He used to be a fixture here.

He got in an argument with some people on the Internet and rage-quit. It was classic.

[NersEllenson]

Ironic bump.

If only Derrick could have reached the ceiling I described for him in that post - to be an Aaron Craft type of PG.  I was optimistic coming into the last season...and what Derrick could bring.  Not sure what was so ironic about my post/question:  COULD Derrick be an Aaron Craft type of PG?  It became evident early on in the season, the answer was NO. Craft's numbers were quite a bit better than Derrick's.  Craft is/was an overrated player in general.

My expectations for Derrick weren't to be a world beater kind of PG....but they definitely were higher than how he performed.  I figured he'd need to be defended on the offensive end of the floor...and would be willing to shoot some perimeter shots, and be capable of making more than 7% of them...as well as more than 43% of his FTs.

[GGGG]

If only Derrick could have reached the ceiling I described for him in that post - to be an Aaron Craft type of PG.  I was optimistic coming into the last season...and what Derrick could bring.  Not sure what was so ironic about my post/question:  COULD Derrick be an Aaron Craft type of PG?  It became evident early on in the season, the answer was NO. Craft's numbers were quite a bit better than Derrick's.  Craft is/was an overrated player in general.

My expectations for Derrick weren't to be a world beater kind of PG....but they definitely were higher than how he performed.  I figured he'd need to be defended on the offensive end of the floor...and would be willing to shoot some perimeter shots, and be capable of making more than 7% of them...as well as more than 43% of his FTs.

Could you for once talk about something else?  Anything else?

This is making your obsession with Larry Williams look normal in comparison.

[g0lden3agle]

Could you for once talk about something else?  Anything else?

This is making your obsession with Larry Williams look normal in comparison.

I mean to be fair he was deliberately goaded into it on this occasion, as well as many others.

[GGGG]

I mean to be fair he was deliberately goaded into it on this occasion, as well as many others.

Will power is a good thing.  Ignoring trolls is something Scoopers should learn to do more often.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If only Derrick could have reached the ceiling I described for him in that post - to be an Aaron Craft type of PG.  I was optimistic coming into the last season...and what Derrick could bring.  Not sure what was so ironic about my post/question:  COULD Derrick be an Aaron Craft type of PG?  It became evident early on in the season, the answer was NO. Craft's numbers were quite a bit better than Derrick's.  Craft is/was an overrated player in general.

My expectations for Derrick weren't to be a world beater kind of PG....but they definitely were higher than how he performed.  I figured he'd need to be defended on the offensive end of the floor...and would be willing to shoot some perimeter shots, and be capable of making more than 7% of them...as well as more than 43% of his FTs.

I think it is ironic because those of us who are "pro-Derrick" had much lower preseason expectations than the loudest and proudest member of the "anti-Derrick" crowd.

[g0lden3agle]

I think it is ironic because those of us who are "pro-Derrick" had much lower preseason expectations than the loudest and proudest member of the "anti-Derrick" crowd.

I don't think it's as ironic as much as it is more of a natural reaction to when your expectation and reality are so far separated.

[Lennys Tap]

My expectations for Derrick weren't to be a world beater kind of PG....but they definitely were higher than how he performed.  I figured he'd need to be defended on the offensive end of the floor...and would be willing to shoot some perimeter shots, and be capable of making more than 7% of them...as well as more than 43% of his FTs.

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

[MU82]

If only Derrick could have reached the ceiling I described for him in that post - to be an Aaron Craft type of PG.  I was optimistic coming into the last season...and what Derrick could bring.  Not sure what was so ironic about my post/question:  COULD Derrick be an Aaron Craft type of PG?  It became evident early on in the season, the answer was NO. Craft's numbers were quite a bit better than Derrick's.  Craft is/was an overrated player in general.

My expectations for Derrick weren't to be a world beater kind of PG....but they definitely were higher than how he performed.  I figured he'd need to be defended on the offensive end of the floor...and would be willing to shoot some perimeter shots, and be capable of making more than 7% of them...as well as more than 43% of his FTs.

Based on all available evidence at the time, I seriously doubted Derrick could be an effective PG for a team with Big East-title aspirations. To this day, I don't know what you or anybody else possibly could have seen in his first two seasons to make you believe otherwise.

[The Lens]

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

Post of the year? No.
Post of the century? Yes.

[NersEllenson]

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

Nice...there's a reason Wojo went out and got a 1-year rental at the PG position, even though he had a returning senior who just gained 975 minutes of experience running the point the prior year...because he knows that guy was flat out AWFUL..otherwise you don't go get a guy at the same position when you have a serviceable returning max minute senior.

As for your comparisons, I prefer to make apples to apples comparisons - comparing Derrick who got the most consistent playing time of any player on the team 30+ minutes a game damn near every game, versus the guy on the team who got the most spotty play, inconsistent PT - just isn't valid.  Dawson was given exactly 1 chance all season to run the show for Derrick's 30 minutes a game and it worked out well...it was an outlier...in that it was the ONLY chance Buzz gave Dawson all season long.

Buzz was awful as a coach last year Lenny.  I know your obsession with Buzz is having a hard time fading away, but...to say he wasn't awful last year is ridiculous.  He returned more letter winners than any time in his career.  Coming off Elite 8.  His 6th year at the helm...and he couldn't even get the team to the freaking NIT??  I know you ripped the hell out of Crean for the aftermath of the Final Four season...yet...last year's coaching performance was as bad if not worse than anything Crean did. 

[g0lden3agle]

Nice...there's a reason Wojo went out and got a 1-year rental at the PG position, even though he had a returning senior who just gained 975 minutes of experience running the point the prior year...because he knows that guy was flat out AWFUL..otherwise you don't go get a guy at the same position when you have a serviceable returning max minute senior.

As for your comparisons, I prefer to make apples to apples comparisons - comparing Derrick who got the most consistent playing time of any player on the team 30+ minutes a game damn near every game, versus the guy on the team who got the most spotty play, inconsistent PT - just isn't valid.  Dawson was given exactly 1 chance all season to run the show for Derrick's 30 minutes a game and it worked out well...it was an outlier...in that it was the ONLY chance Buzz gave Dawson all season long.

Buzz was awful as a coach last year Lenny.  I know your obsession with Buzz is having a hard time fading away, but...to say he wasn't awful last year is ridiculous.  He returned more letter winners than any time in his career.  Coming off Elite 8.  His 6th year at the helm...and he couldn't even get the team to the freaking NIT??  I know you ripped the hell out of Crean for the aftermath of the Final Four season...yet...last year's coaching performance was as bad if not worse than anything Crean did. 

What does getting a new PG for this year have to do with the limited PG options we had last year?  Not sure how many times people need to tell you they don't think Derrick was good, they just don't think there was a better option at PG before it finally sinks in.

[jesmu84]

Nice...there's a reason Wojo went out and got a 1-year rental at the PG position, even though he had a returning senior who just gained 975 minutes of experience running the point the prior year...because he knows that guy was flat out AWFUL..otherwise you don't go get a guy at the same position when you have a serviceable returning max minute senior Dawson.

FTFY

As for your comparisons, I prefer to make apples to apples comparisons - comparing Derrick who got the most consistent playing time of any player on the team 30+ minutes a game damn near every game, versus the guy on the team who got the most spotty play, inconsistent PT - just isn't valid.  Dawson was given exactly 1 chance all season to run the show for Derrick's 30 minutes a game and it worked out well...it was an outlier...in that it was the ONLY chance Buzz gave Dawson all season long.

Except, you know, for the 1 million times you've compared Dawson to Derrick, whether through percentage stats, per40 stats, etc. etc.

[tower912]

What does getting a new PG for this year have to do with the limited PG options we had last year?  Not sure how many times people need to tell you they don't think Derrick was good, they just don't think there was a better option at PG before it finally sinks in.

It never will.   

[NersEllenson]

What does getting a new PG for this year have to do with the limited PG options we had last year?  Not sure how many times people need to tell you they don't think Derrick was good, they just don't think there was a better option at PG before it finally sinks in.

That's a fair point you make.  And as for them not thinking there was a better option on the roster, well, that's where all of the debate stems from.  I simply refuse to believe Dawson wasn't a better option, as the guy in front of him turned in likely the worst offensive performance in the last 20 years for a starting PG on a high major team.  I also prefer a player, Dawson, who has to be guarded everywhere on the floor, as opposed to a PG who was constantly sagged off of 5'.  Pretty hard to turn the ball over when the opposition never applies any pressure to you because they have zero respect for you as a shooter.

[GGGG]

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

Next time, you need to drop the mic after you make a most like this.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

Nicely stated.

Succinct. Accurate. Logical. Reasonable.

You have no place on the internet.

[GooooMarquette]

So you had higher expectations on the offensive end for Derrick. Based on what? Hope? Certainly not past performance. Having expectations based on hope and an outlier or two (see Dawson at Georgetown for example) will almost invariably lead to disappointment. You've written the equivalent of a doctoral thesis based on an outlier, ignoring a 32 game season and an extremely well respected coach's opinion (after watching a guy play every day for 6 months).

You trot out the same stats (Derrick's 3 point and FT percentages) over and over. Derrick was a lousy offensive player. We get it. Guess what? So was Dawson. Derrick shot a paltry 39% on all field goals. John shot 32%. Derrick scored 123 points on 156 shots, an anemic .79 points per shot. John scored 39 points on 50 shots, an even worse .78 points per shot. John did make 9 of 11 free throws which is very good, but he only got to the line 1.8 times per 40 minutes, not enough to make a difference.

What about other stats? Turnovers? Dawson averaged 30% more per minute. Rebounds? Derrick averaged 18% more per minute. Assists? Derrick (despite your assertion that nobody guarded him, making scoring almost impossible for the other 4 guys on the floor) averaged 35% more per minute. Steals? Derrick averaged an incredible 350% more per minute.

Nobody on this board has suggested that Derrick was good last year, but when you look at ALL the numbers instead of cherry picking a couple of them he was the best we had at the position. When you throw in his vastly better on ball defense it's a no brainer.

I understand that many fans overvalued our team last year (especially after Blue, Du Wilson and McKay were lost) and need a scapegoat, but the fault is not with Buzz the coach or who played the big minutes. Blame Buzz the general manager who didn't have enough good/experienced players when defections and injury struck. Maybe that's not as interesting a storyline as claiming that our heretofore young genius coach went nuts or threw games but it is what happened. Giving John Dawson Derrick's minutes would only have made it worse.

Nailed it.

[tower912]

I am done with this subject forever.   Lenny has said it so accurately, so succinctly, so eloquently, that to continue would be folly.   

[NersEllenson]

I am done with this subject forever.   Lenny has said it so accurately, so succinctly, so eloquently, that to continue would be folly.   

Thankfully next season we won't be subject to 30-47 minutes per game of the most inept PG play seen at the high major level, so therefore the subject will go to bed forever anyway...

But of course when the team has a better record next year - and I'll say drastically better record - even though it loses its two leading scorers and best big man at MU in 20 years...the same 5 posters here won't concede that the primary and virtually only reason we were so bad last year was due to the PG.

But, of course, if we'd have played Dawson those 30 minutes per game...things sure would have been worse...like worse than 9-9 in Big East, and no wins over Top 25 teams...yeah.....whatever...and for what it's worth, Lenny needs a course in remedial math as his stats he cited are totally miscalculated...and this past season was far and away Buzz's worst team in Offensive Efficiency/O Rating...he all of a sudden didn't forget how to coach offense...he just insisted on trotting out a guy at the most important position on the floor who had ZERO offensive ability and would not take a shot outside of 3' from the basket.