Chris Egi Commits to Harvard

[Tugg Speedman]

No they do not.  They addressed that question some time ago.  Harvard's current success in basketball is not going to turn that decision on its head.  None of the Ivies needs sports to get their name out there to prospective students, or to generate alumni donations.

Keefe said it well here ... the alumni base cares A GREAT DEAL about beating other ivies.  If an arms race within the ivies begins ...

I can assure you that the Harvard alumni base does care about rivalries within the Ivy League. I am not certain many actually aspire to compete or choose to compare with programs in the SEC, B1G, et al.

[GGGG]

Keefe said it well here ... the alumni base cares A GREAT DEAL about beating other ivies.  If an arms race within the ivies begins ...

Then they will all work to be competitive within the current structure of the Ivy League.

[Tugg Speedman]

Then they will all work to be competitive within the current structure of the Ivy League.

But Ammaker's recruiting success at Harvard coupled with their non-revenue sports suggests they might breakout of that structure.

[GGGG]

But Ammaker's recruiting success at Harvard coupled with their non-revenue sports suggests they might breakout of that structure.

Not really.  Their success in non-revenue sports has been limited...and not that many people care anyway.

And Harvard's success on the basketball court is nice, but pretty limited to date. 

[keefe]

Not really.  Their success in non-revenue sports has been limited...and not that many people care anyway.

And Harvard's success on the basketball court is nice, but pretty limited to date. 

I realize the only time you went to Harvard was as a visitor but I can assure you that Harvard's crew team finishing the 2013 season ranked #2 was a very big deal among the Harvard student body and Alumni. In 2013, all 8 Ivy crew teams were ranked in the Top 20, including 5 of the Top 10.


Men's Varsity Eight


1 University of Washington 
2 Harvard University 
3 Brown University 
4 Stanford University 
5 Northeastern University 
6 University of California 
7 Princeton University 
8 Yale University
9 Boston University
10 United States Naval Academy
11 Cornell University 
12 University of Wisconsin
13 University of Pennsylvania
14 Syracuse University
15 Georgetown University
16 Dartmouth College 
17 Columbia University
18 Drexel University
19 Oregon State University
20 College of the Holy Cross

[Tugg Speedman]

Not really.  Their success in non-revenue sports has been limited...and not that many people care anyway.

And Harvard's success on the basketball court is nice, but pretty limited to date.  

You're looking backwards.  I'm saying the tuition discount program (which is 4 or 5 years old) and the recent success in recruiting by Ammaker is showing the Ivies an entirely new way to compete in D1 sports.  They now have a defacto scholarship program.

Now do they want to do it?  That is the question.  In sports like Hockey, Tennis, Cross Country, and Crew they are as good as any D1 program in the country.  Do they want to continue to expand that?  If they do, they can be a force.

[Pakuni]

You're looking backwards.  I'm saying the tuition discount program (which is 4 or 5 years old) and the recent success in recruiting by Ammaker is showing the Ivies an entirely new way to compete in D1 sports.  They now have a defacto scholarship program.

Now do they want to do it?  That is the question.  In sports like Hockey, Tennis, Cross Country, and Crew they are as good as any D1 program in the country.  Do they want to continue to expand that?  If they do, they can be a force.

I doubt Harvard ever admits the kind of kids they would have to admit to ever become a force. There are only so many really smart kids who are good at basketball.

As for hockey, Harvard hasn't been to the NCAA tournament in seven seasons and have finished under .500 five of the last seven years. They are not as good as any D1 program in the country.

[GGGG]

I realize the only time you went to Harvard was as a visitor but I can assure you that Harvard's crew team finishing the 2013 season ranked #2 was a very big deal among the Harvard student body and Alumni. In 2013, all 8 Ivy crew teams were ranked in the Top 20, including 5 of the Top 10.

No one outside of Harvard gives a sh*t.

[GGGG]

You're looking backwards.  I'm saying the tuition discount program (which is 4 or 5 years old) and the recent success in recruiting by Ammaker is showing the Ivies an entirely new way to compete in D1 sports.  They now have a defacto scholarship program.

Now do they want to do it?  That is the question.  In sports like Hockey, Tennis, Cross Country, and Crew they are as good as any D1 program in the country.  Do they want to continue to expand that?  If they do, they can be a force.

Let me put it this way.

They could decide to jump up to FBS, offer a bunch of scholarships, throw a bunch of money at the programs...and they would still be a long way from being a power.

But they aren't going to do any of that anyway.

[keefe]

No one outside of Harvard gives a sh*t.

You must "give a sh*t" since you feel the need to go on about Harvard athletics and the personal interests of members of the Harvard community. Why not limit yourself to a world you actually know something about, like Indiana State University.

[77ncaachamps]

I have spent a lot of time at both Clark and Cubi but I got to know the Philippines better as a corporate warrior. I often went to Makati for work and Cebu and Boracay for fun. There is a great Lechon place in Makati that is all you can eat roast suckling...but good Lord there is only so much you can eat before hitting the wall. In the provinces I always focused on seafood. They bbq fresh fish and lobster over coconut fires then top with an array of sauces. With dinner I always had a few Mojos before shifting gears into a long night with San Miguel. St Mike never disappointed (ito ang beer!)

One thing I will say, the Philippines has some of the most stupendously gorgeous women to grace this earth. The cross roads factor has infused the DNA pool with Polynesian, Spanish, Chinese, Malay, Japanese, and American blood to concoct some of the most luscious creatures to walk on a sandy beach. I am surprised my neck isn't permanently whiplashed from my time in the islands.

I agree with the latter paragraph. Miss Universe (whatever) can attest to it (though she's not my cup of tea).
It's funny: I visited Cebu and the girls there looked better than the girls in Manila. Go figure.

I went to a buffet in Makati as well that served AYCE suckling, squid, fish, etc. Craziness. All the fresh food for under $8 per person (including drinks and dessert). So that's where I celebrated my birthday and invited relatives from all the barangays you can think of! It was cheap...and good! I miss it.

But I miss the fresh fish the most. Really hard to find it here in the states.

[GGGG]

You must "give a sh*t" since you feel the need to go on about Harvard athletics and the personal interests of members of the Harvard community. Why not limit yourself to a world you actually know something about, like Indiana State University.

When you understand the point of the topic at hand, feel free to participate.  But it looks as though you are just using this topic as yet another way to talk a lot about yourself and your accomplishments.

Regardless, the point is that you don't pave the way toward dominance in athletics, and Another is the one that mentioned Notre Dame, Stanford and Miami (FL), by excelling in non-revenue sports.  Those sports are "non-revenue" for a reason.  The general public really doesn't care all that much.

The can be a great rallying point for the limited number of people that do care...like those who care about Crew at Harvard.  (A real cross section of America I am sure...)  But since the topic is how the Ivies could become powers in athletics, what Harvard alumni feel about crew is ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

[keefe]

I agree with the latter paragraph. Miss Universe (whatever) can attest to it (though she's not my cup of tea).
It's funny: I visited Cebu and the girls there looked better than the girls in Manila. Go figure.

I went to a buffet in Makati as well that served AYCE suckling, squid, fish, etc. Craziness. All the fresh food for under $8 per person (including drinks and dessert). So that's where I celebrated my birthday and invited relatives from all the barangays you can think of! It was cheap...and good! I miss it.

But I miss the fresh fish the most. Really hard to find it here in the states.

Cebu is one of my favorite spots. The diving is incredible, the sport fishing excellent, the seafood superb, and the women are stunning. I am not one to laze on a beach but the white sand there is some of the best in the world. And it's enough off the beaten track to avoid the hordes of fat Germans and drunk Aussies who trash Nusa Dua, Phuket, and other beach ASEAN destinations.

Most of my work had me in Metro Manila so I stayed at the Shangri La in Makati. The lechon place I frequented is a short trot from the hotel but my favorite tended to be the street food/food court fare. You probably know the large Victory and Rabbit bus terminal adjacent to the Shangri La that has throngs of food vendors serving up traditional dishes. For under 100P you could pound down kwek kwek, lumpia, pancit, bola bola,  calamares, and various monkey meat on a stick. One of my favorite things was to visit a fresh juice vendor at that terminal after a run and have her make me about 4 or 5 calamansis with the cane sugar. There is no Gatorade that can compare.

One of the best dinners I ever had was held at the Itramuros in the courtyard of the Archbishop's Residence. There must have been 20 courses and the food was exquisite but the setting was enchanting. Manila has such a rich history.

As for seafood, you must live in the Midwest. Seattle has superb fresh seafood and the public markets and Uwajimaya offer sushi grade catch. But the fish here is different than in ASEAN and what truly differentiates is the preparation. One of the best dishes ever created is grilled chili stingray with Tiger/San Miguel/ Bintang. And that is simply not available in North America. 

[keefe]

Regardless, the point is that you don't pave the way toward dominance in athletics, and Another is the one that mentioned Notre Dame, Stanford and Miami (FL), by excelling in non-revenue sports.  Those sports are "non-revenue" for a reason.  The general public really doesn't care all that much.

The can be a great rallying point for the limited number of people that do care...like those who care about Crew at Harvard.  (A real cross section of America I am sure...)  But since the topic is how the Ivies could become powers in athletics, what Harvard alumni feel about crew is ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

As my table listing the final Crew Rankings demonstrates, the Ivies do have a national presence in athletics. And do not confuse monetization with support. You use the benchmark of revenue generation as the sole determinant of efficacy and therein lies the flaw in your logic.

You make the point that "nobody cares" when, in fact, the crew teams at the Ivies are an integral part of the university community identity. Crew rivalries span the Atlantic Ocean as well. And of note, the Harvard-Oxford Regatta is actually called the "America vs England Regatta." There is significant interest in this event that includes the White House and 10 Downing Street. What I believe you are saying is actually, "I don't know anything about crew, it is of no interest to me, so therefore nobody should care. And see, it's not on TV so there is the proof that nobody cares!"

There is a whole world out there, beyond the somnambulance of your existence, that you seemingly do not understand.

 

[GGGG]

As my table listing the final Crew Rankings demonstrates, the Ivies do have a national presence in athletics. And do not confuse monetization with support. You use the benchmark of revenue generation as the sole determinant of efficacy and therein lies the flaw in your logic.

You make the point that "nobody cares" when, in fact, the crew teams at the Ivies are an integral part of the university community identity. Crew rivalries span the Atlantic Ocean as well. And of note, the Harvard-Oxford Regatta is actually called the "America vs England Regatta." There is significant interest in this event that includes the White House and 10 Downing Street. What I believe you are saying is actually, "I don't know anything about crew, it is of no interest to me, so therefore nobody should care. And see, it's not on TV so there is the proof that nobody cares!"

There is a whole world out there, beyond the somnambulance of your existence, that you seemingly do not understand.   

Being good at crew does not mean they have a "national presence in athletics" in the manner that Another84 was using the phrase.  He was specifically equating that phrase with being a power at the revenue generating sports in particular.

And I like a bunch of stuff that most people don't care about.  I just am not self-centered enough to believe that my interests equate to interests of the public at large.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I realize the only time you went to Harvard was as a visitor but I can assure you that Harvard's crew team finishing the 2013 season ranked #2 was a very big deal among the Harvard student body and Alumni. In 2013, all 8 Ivy crew teams were ranked in the Top 20, including 5 of the Top 10.


Men's Varsity Eight


1 University of Washington 
2 Harvard University 
3 Brown University 
4 Stanford University 
5 Northeastern University 
6 University of California 
7 Princeton University 
8 Yale University
9 Boston University
10 United States Naval Academy
11 Cornell University 
12 University of Wisconsin
13 University of Pennsylvania
14 Syracuse University
15 Georgetown University
16 Dartmouth College 
17 Columbia University
18 Drexel University
19 Oregon State University
20 College of the Holy Cross

This post reminds me of George Clooney's smug cloud from South Park.  Can picture the snifter of farts in kweefe's hand as I type.

[Pakuni]

You make the point that "nobody cares" when, in fact, the crew teams at the Ivies are an integral part of the university community identity. Crew rivalries span the Atlantic Ocean as well. And of note, the Harvard-Oxford Regatta is actually called the "America vs England Regatta." There is significant interest in this event that includes the White House and 10 Downing Street. What I believe you are saying is actually, "I don't know anything about crew, it is of no interest to me, so therefore nobody should care. And see, it's not on TV so there is the proof that nobody cares!"

Significant interest - however you choose to define that - in a single event based largely on tradition does not equate to significant interest in the sport.
It's akin to arguing that horse racing has a massive following because 165,000 people attend the Kentucky Derby, or open-wheel racing is huge in America because 300,000 show up for the Indianapolis 500.

[kcasper13]

He said that the only time a student (and thus, a student-athlete) needs to pay a significant amount of money for their tuition at an Ivy League school is if the household income is over something ridiculous like $250,000 per year, in which case the family obviously will not have problems paying that significant amount of money. 

There is no way you could send your kid to Harvard if you were only making $250k/year without taking a 2nd mortgage or dipping into savings.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-a-couple-making-250-000-a-year-considered-rich-anymore-considering-how-fast-costs-are-rising

[keefe]

Significant interest - however you choose to define that - in a single event based largely on tradition does not equate to significant interest in the sport.
It's akin to arguing that horse racing has a massive following because 165,000 people attend the Kentucky Derby, or open-wheel racing is huge in America because 300,000 show up for the Indianapolis 500.

Crew is a season and not a single event. I cite the Harvard-Oxford Regatta as evidence that the sport has interest in both the US and UK with significant sponsorship at the highest levels of society. If the PM makes a point to attend that event it is relevant for British society as a whole. And on campuses in both nations crew is a vital element in the life of those communities. Marquette doesn't have crew but many schools do. It is ludicrous to say "nobody cares" when in fact many do.

[Pakuni]

Crew is a season and not a single event. I cite the Harvard-Oxford Regatta as evidence that the sport has interest in both the US and UK with significant sponsorship at the highest levels of society. If the PM makes a point to attend that event it is relevant for British society as a whole. And on campuses in both nations crew is a vital element in the life of those communities. Marquette doesn't have crew but many schools do. It is ludicrous to say "nobody cares" when in fact many do.

I don't think Sultan was stating "literally" nobody cares. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know that, as well.

What's the attendance like for a run-of-the-mill crew match (meet?) between a pair of the Ivies?

[keefe]

I don't think Sultan was stating "literally" nobody cares. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know that, as well.

What's the attendance like for a run-of-the-mill crew match (meet?) between a pair of the Ivies?

The Harvard-Yale Regatta will attract a couple hundred thousand spectators along the course.


Here is the Eli view of this event:

THE TRADITION CONTINUES

Sports Illustrated named this event the most venerable rivalry in college sports, and its history predates the great football rivalry between the schools by 23 years. Crews from Yale and Harvard first met on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire on Aug. 3, 1852, the first intercollegiate athletic competition of any kind in the United States. Harvard won that first meeting and has built a 93-54 lead in the series. Harvard's junior varsity holds a 74-37 edge, while its freshmen are 70-39-1 against Yale.

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-crewhvy/2012-13/releases/20130604o8ehoj

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The Harvard-Yale Regatta will attract a couple hundred thousand spectators along the course.


Here is the Eli view of this event:

THE TRADITION CONTINUES

Sports Illustrated named this event the most venerable rivalry in college sports, and its history predates the great football rivalry between the schools by 23 years. Crews from Yale and Harvard first met on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire on Aug. 3, 1852, the first intercollegiate athletic competition of any kind in the United States. Harvard won that first meeting and has built a 93-54 lead in the series. Harvard's junior varsity holds a 74-37 edge, while its freshmen are 70-39-1 against Yale.

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-crewhvy/2012-13/releases/20130604o8ehoj

Yale never wins that.

[keefe]

Yale never wins that.

Yea, that rock on the Thames is almost always Crimson. The Regatta is a great sporting event.

[Pakuni]

The Harvard-Yale Regatta will attract a couple hundred thousand spectators along the course.


Here is the Eli view of this event:

THE TRADITION CONTINUES

Sports Illustrated named this event the most venerable rivalry in college sports, and its history predates the great football rivalry between the schools by 23 years. Crews from Yale and Harvard first met on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire on Aug. 3, 1852, the first intercollegiate athletic competition of any kind in the United States. Harvard won that first meeting and has built a 93-54 lead in the series. Harvard's junior varsity holds a 74-37 edge, while its freshmen are 70-39-1 against Yale.

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-crewhvy/2012-13/releases/20130604o8ehoj

The Harvard Yale Regatta is an event more akin to the Kentucky Derby than a typical crew match. I'm more interested in knowing what kind of crowd shows for a typical weekday competition pitting Cornell vs Brown, since that's much more of an accurate reflection of how "integral" the sport is to the schools' identities.

[keefe]

The Harvard Yale Regatta is an event more akin to the Kentucky Derby than a typical crew match. I'm more interested in knowing what kind of crowd shows for a typical weekday competition pitting Cornell vs Brown, since that's much more of an accurate reflection of how "integral" the sport is to the schools' identities.

I would say it is more akin to the Michigan-Ohio game which is a part of the regular season rather than a one-off annual event. And like the Michigan-Ohio game the Harvard-Yale Regatta attracts considerable interest.

Regattas at Harvard on the Charles attract tens of thousands of spectators. So do Michigan Regattas along the Huron and UDub Regattas on Lake Washington. Crew is an international and Olympic sport. To suggest it is a marginal or trivial past time is naïve if not ignorant.


http://seattletimes.com/html/huskies/2021351324_regional08xml.html