Chris Egi Commits to Harvard

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://twitter.com/EvanDanielsFOX/status/384501655099564033

Chirs Egi (2014 44 overall, 16 PF), 6"9, 220 PF just committed to Harvard. He was a 2015 target for Marquette but he reclassified and committed over the weekend.

Got to give props to Tommy Amaker, he's turning the Crimson into a real mid major power.

[brewcity77]

Harvard's new method of getting around the Ivy's athletic scholarship restrictions is really working for them. Be interesting to see if the rest of the league wises up and puts into place similar ways around the restrictions. Having a recruiter like Amaker and the unique academics Harvard offers is a real plus.

[wadesworld]

Harvard's new method of getting around the Ivy's athletic scholarship restrictions is really working for them. Be interesting to see if the rest of the league wises up and puts into place similar ways around the restrictions. Having a recruiter like Amaker and the unique academics Harvard offers is a real plus.

I'll say it again, the lack of athletic scholarships offered by Ivy League schools is incredibly overplayed.  Having a close friend who was offered a position on the staff of an athletic team at Cornell (and declined), he knows very well how recruiting and scholarship money works at the Ivy League schools.  Tuition at Ivy League schools is not a set amount.  It all depends on the income of the family that the student has.  They make it so that as long as you get into the school, you can afford to attend the school.  He said that the only time a student (and thus, a student-athlete) needs to pay a significant amount of money for their tuition at an Ivy League school is if the household income is over something ridiculous like $250,000 per year, in which case the family obviously will not have problems paying that significant amount of money.  On top of that, just like at Divison 3 schools (which do not give out "athletic" scholarships), Ivy League schools find ways to give out "academic" scholarships to their student-athletes to help cover the costs of tuition.

I believe my friend also said something along the lines of if a student could have a tuition that is cheaper at a different Ivy League school than the one they choose to attend, they can receive the same tuition that the other Ivy League school would have been, but I cannot remember the details of that.

So while student athletes at Ivy League schools may pay more than your full ride student-athletes, they are paying very, very little and getting an Ivy League education for it.

[mu-rara]

Harvard's new method of getting around the Ivy's athletic scholarship restrictions is really working for them. Be interesting to see if the rest of the league wises up and puts into place similar ways around the restrictions. Having a recruiter like Amaker and the unique academics Harvard offers is a real plus.

What is the method?  As in, how is it different than other Ivys?

[GGGG]

What is the method?  As in, how is it different than other Ivys?

As wades says, if you have a family income of less than a certain dollar amount, you have no tuition to pay.  And it is graduated beyond that.  Plus then they undoubted qualify for other aid by being a student with a special skill or somesuch. 

The rest of the Ivies have pretty much matched, but some can't afford to discount as much as Harvard.  Then on top of it all they have a coach who is over-employed for an Ivy...who is married to a psychiatrist with a PhD who is on staff at Harvard...and they can run circles around the rest of the schools.

[mu-rara]

As wades says, if you have a family income of less than a certain dollar amount, you have no tuition to pay.  And it is graduated beyond that.  Plus then they undoubted qualify for other aid by being a student with a special skill or somesuch. 

The rest of the Ivies have pretty much matched, but some can't afford to discount as much as Harvard.  Then on top of it all they have a coach who is over-employed for an Ivy...who is married to a psychiatrist with a PhD who is on staff at Harvard...and they can run circles around the rest of the schools.

Thanks.  Any word on whether he is happy being over-employed?

[Atticus]

Thanks.  Any word on whether he is happy being over-employed?

Over-employed? How so?

He was an average coach in the BE and B10.

[GGGG]

Over-employed? How so?

He was an average coach in the BE and B10.

I think he is better than the quality of coaches they usually get in the Ivy League.  I wouldn't doubt that he leaves there eventually and is more successful than he was previously.  Like both GTIII and Fran Dunphy have.

[Tugg Speedman]

Tuition at Ivy League schools is not a set amount.  It all depends on the income of the family that the student has.  They make it so that as long as you get into the school, you can afford to attend the school.  He said that the only time a student (and thus, a student-athlete) needs to pay a significant amount of money for their tuition at an Ivy League school is if the household income is over something ridiculous like $250,000 per year, in which case the family obviously will not have problems paying that significant amount of money.

So while student athletes at Ivy League schools may pay more than your full ride student-athletes, they are paying very, very little and getting an Ivy League education for it.

I currently pay a tuition at Harvard and I can tell you this is largely true.

The "posted" tuition rate at Harvard is $40k/year (plus room and board).  However 65% of the current Freshman class is paying less than the "posted" rate.

Families that make less than $75,000 can apply for a 100% tuition break (and a 100% room and board break).  In most cases a 100% is granted.

Families that make between $75,000 and $150,000 are paying an average $12,000/year.

The ivies are unique because with huge endowments ($33 billion for Harvard and $20 billion for Yale) they can afford these substantial discounts in tuition.

Why are they doing it?  Because the Ivies have identified that "lower income" kids are not applying because these kids assume they cannot afford it.  In reality the ivies are among the cheapest selective schools in the country.  So this is not a scam for athletics, discounted tuition applies to all students.

And, it is having an immediate impact on non-revenue sports.  The ivies are now competing and winning national championships in cross country, hockey, tennis lacrosse, track & field and so on.

Right now the SEC dominates in football, the old BE in basketball and the Pac-12 in non-revenue sports.  So who will supplement these leaders?  Maybe the Ivies?

[Atticus]

Right now the SEC dominates in football, the old BE in basketball and the Pac-12 in non-revenue sports.  So who will supplement these leaders?  Maybe the Ivies?

A select few programs in the Ivy League have very successful non-revenue generating sports teams. They can be competitive so long as there are no professional leagues to go to after graduation. The ivy schools won't reduce their admissions criteria to compete with Bama in football. Harvard basketball has probably peaked. ivy lax has been down in recent years and the new ACC will dominate that sport.

[Lennys Tap]

I think he is better than the quality of coaches they usually get in the Ivy League.  I wouldn't doubt that he leaves there eventually and is more successful than he was previously.  Like both GTIII and Fran Dunphy have.

Agree. Amaker was very young when he became a head coach at Seton Hall and still young when he went to Michigan. My guess is he learned a lot in and since his first shot at the "big time" and the mixed results he had will be better if or when there's a next time.

[Tugg Speedman]

A select few programs in the Ivy League have very successful non-revenue generating sports teams. They can be competitive so long as there are no professional leagues to go to after graduation. The ivy schools won't reduce their admissions criteria to compete with Bama in football. Harvard basketball has probably peaked. ivy lax has been down in recent years and the new ACC will dominate that sport.

Ok, the ivies may not be able to surpass Bama, but it's not unrealistic to think they can get as competitive as ND, Stanford, Duke or another highly selective school.  And, if they have a moral blind-spot and look away when cheating occurs, they could be like the highly selective schools of USC and "The U."

I'm not saying they will be, rather they could be should they decide that is what they want.  And the substantial tuition discounting programs they started four or five years ago could be the device to make this happen as Ammaker is finding out.

[GGGG]

Ok, the ivies may not be able to surpass Bama, but it's not unrealistic to think they can get as competitive as ND, Stanford, Duke or another highly selective school.  And, if they have a moral blind-spot and look away when cheating occurs, they could be like the highly selective schools of USC and "The U."

I'm not saying they will be, rather they could be should they decide that is what they want.  And the substantial tuition discounting programs they started four or five years ago could be the device to make this happen as Ammaker is finding out.

It is very much unrealistic to think that they will be like ND, Stanford, Duke, etc.  Those three schools offer full scholarships to football players.  Harvard and the other Ivies do not....but they rely on the tuition breaks offered to all other students.

The Ivies could become competitive in football if....they either discount their tuition further OR start with athletic scholarships....they drop the FCS for FBS....and they drop their ban on post-season football. But really none of that is going to happen.

Now an Ivy *could* get more competitive in basketball.  For instance if Harvard continues down its current path, it isn't *completely* inconceivable that they could become a Gonzaga like program.  Much less players and resources needed...and they can continue to operate in their current structure as long as they attract the players.

But football?  Not a chance.

[Atticus]

Ok, the ivies may not be able to surpass Bama, but it's not unrealistic to think they can get as competitive as ND, Stanford, Duke or another highly selective school.  And, if they have a moral blind-spot and look away when cheating occurs, they could be like the highly selective schools of USC and "The U."

I'm not saying they will be, rather they could be should they decide that is what they want.  And the substantial tuition discounting programs they started four or five years ago could be the device to make this happen as Ammaker is finding out.

It will never happen. Princetons AD is disgusted with collegiate athletics. The Ivy League will never play along.

Btw, kids that don't score high enough on their sat to get into Stanford often end up at ND. It happens  every year with a recruit or two.

princetons AD comments - http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20130928/NJSPORTS02/309280045?nclick_check=1

[Tugg Speedman]

It will never happen. Princetons AD is disgusted with collegiate athletics. The Ivy League will never play along.

Btw, kids that don't score high enough on their sat to get into Stanford often end up at ND. It happens  every year with a recruit or two.

princetons AD comments - http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20130928/NJSPORTS02/309280045?nclick_check=1

Yale won the Hockey NC.  

Dartmouth girls are in the hunt for the cross country national championship

Ivy Tennis is on the verge of dominating the NCAA

Harvard Basketball was ranked last year and could be again this year.

My point is the Princeton AD comments are not reflective of the rest of the ivies.

Again, I'm arguing the tuition discounting program has ushered in defacto scholarships which is new in the last four or 5 years.   This gives them a new tool to compete with the schools that offer scholarships.

Until this program they could not compete because of educational demands and costs.  The educational demands are still there but now the costs are not.  So the ivies have a decision to make ... do they want to try and be among the best in athletics?  Now they can offer no tuition which changes things.

[4everwarriors]

I currently pay a tuition at Harvard and I can tell you this is largely true.

The "posted" tuition rate at Harvard is $40k/year (plus room and board).  However 65% of the current Freshman class is paying less than the "posted" rate.

Families that make less than $75,000 can apply for a 100% tuition break (and a 100% room and board break).  In most cases a 100% is granted.

Families that make between $75,000 and $150,000 are paying an average $12,000/year.

The ivies are unique because with huge endowments ($33 billion for Harvard and $20 billion for Yale) they can afford these substantial discounts in tuition.

Why are they doing it?  Because the Ivies have identified that "lower income" kids are not applying because these kids assume they cannot afford it.  In reality the ivies are among the cheapest selective schools in the country.  So this is not a scam for athletics, discounted tuition applies to all students.

And, it is having an immediate impact on non-revenue sports.  The ivies are now competing and winning national championships in cross country, hockey, tennis lacrosse, track & field and so on.

Right now the SEC dominates in football, the old BE in basketball and the Pac-12 in non-revenue sports.  So who will supplement these leaders?  Maybe the Ivies?

So, let's get right down to it. How much you payin'?

[GGGG]

Yale won the Hockey NC. 

Dartmouth girls are in the hunt for the cross country national championship

Ivy Tennis is on the verge of dominating the NCAA

Harvard Basketball was ranked last year and could be again this year.

My point is the Princeton AD comments are not reflective of the rest of the ivies.

Again, I'm arguing the tuition discounting program has ushered in defacto scholarships which is new in the last four or 5 years.   This gives them a new tool to compete with the schools that offer scholarships.

Until this program they could not compete because of educational demands and costs.  The educational demands are still there but now the costs are not.  So the ivies have a decision to make ... do they want to try and be among the best in athletics?  Now they can offer no tuition which changes things.

You make it sound like it wasn't their choice to offer athletic scholarships.  If they wanted to try to be the best in athletics before this, they could have done so by simply changing that policy.  Why didn't they do that?

[brewcity77]

Harvard is lowering their academic requirements for athletes while ensuring they qualify for full tuition coverage. Yes, Amaker is the highest profile coach the Ivy has seen in awhile, but there's a reason they've become suddenly dominant after going over 60 years between NCAA berths. They may not be getting busted for violations (yet), but anyone that thinks they are playing the same game as the rest of the Ivy League is mistaken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/sports/ncaabasketball/02harvard.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jh-hart_harvard_tommy_amaker_financial_aid_031412

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/03/harvard_basketball_how_an_elite_academic_institution_became_part_of_the.html

[Atticus]

I'm not saying they will be, rather they could be should they decide that is what they want.  And the substantial tuition discounting programs they started four or five years ago could be the device to make this happen as Ammaker is finding out.

So they "could" build a dorm for athletes like UK.
They "could" bring in jucos who were ineligible out of high school.
They "could" recruit using bags of cash, cars and houses.
They "could" allow athletes to skip classes...enroll in fake degree programs...etc.

Of course, every program in the country could do all of those things.

And then there is Harvards alumni base....that doesn't care.

[keefe]

And then there is Harvards alumni base....that doesn't care.

I can assure you that the Harvard alumni base does care about rivalries within the Ivy League. I am not certain many actually aspire to compete or choose to compare with programs in the SEC, B1G, et al.

[77ncaachamps]

Harvard has a huge endowment but they can't offer schollies.

Moot point if this "pay the athletes" goes down, right?

[keefe]

Harvard has a huge endowment

I had never heard about John Harvard's endowment but I know his statue in the Old Yard puts him at about 6' tall.

By the way, I was invited to a Lechon Baboy feast a couple weekends ago. Cebu-style Lechon, pancit, lumpia, San Miguel's, and balut. My arteries are just now returning to normal.  I love Filipino food.

[77ncaachamps]

I had never heard about John Harvard's endowment but I know his statue in the Old Yard puts him at about 6' tall.

By the way, I was invited to a Lechon Baboy feast a couple weekends ago. Cebu-style Lechon, pancit, lumpia, San Miguel's, and balut. My arteries are just now returning to normal.  I love Filipino food.

Keefe, it's good to know you snack with on some of the finest Southeast Asia has to offer.
"The Crossroads of Asia" has such a rich and diverse culinary history.
But two things ring true about Filipino food: 1) if you have a food allergy, check it at the door and 2) there's no such as a cholesterol-free Filipino dish.

I hope you got your belly-busting fill, pare!

[keefe]

Keefe, it's good to know you snack with on some of the finest Southeast Asia has to offer.
"The Crossroads of Asia" has such a rich and diverse culinary history.
But two things ring true about Filipino food: 1) if you have a food allergy, check it at the door and 2) there's no such as a cholesterol-free Filipino dish.

I hope you got your belly-busting fill, pare!

I have spent a lot of time at both Clark and Cubi but I got to know the Philippines better as a corporate warrior. I often went to Makati for work and Cebu and Boracay for fun. There is a great Lechon place in Makati that is all you can eat roast suckling...but good Lord there is only so much you can eat before hitting the wall. In the provinces I always focused on seafood. They bbq fresh fish and lobster over coconut fires then top with an array of sauces. With dinner I always had a few Mojos before shifting gears into a long night with San Miguel. St Mike never disappointed (ito ang beer!)

One thing I will say, the Philippines has some of the most stupendously gorgeous women to grace this earth. The cross roads factor has infused the DNA pool with Polynesian, Spanish, Chinese, Malay, Japanese, and American blood to concoct some of the most luscious creatures to walk on a sandy beach. I am surprised my neck isn't permanently whiplashed from my time in the islands.

[Dawson Rental]

Yale won the Hockey NC.  

Dartmouth girls are in the hunt for the cross country national championship

Ivy Tennis is on the verge of dominating the NCAA

Harvard Basketball was ranked last year and could be again this year.

My point is the Princeton AD comments are not reflective of the rest of the ivies.

Again, I'm arguing the tuition discounting program has ushered in defacto scholarships which is new in the last four or 5 years.   This gives them a new tool to compete with the schools that offer scholarships.

Until this program they could not compete because of educational demands and costs.  The educational demands are still there but now the costs are not.  So the ivies have a decision to make ... do they want to try and be among the best in athletics?  Now they can offer no tuition which changes things.

No they do not.  They addressed that question some time ago.  Harvard's current success in basketball is not going to turn that decision on its head.  None of the Ivies needs sports to get their name out there to prospective students, or to generate alumni donations.