Pilarz to step down

[GGGG]

I vote for Flaherty.

It's hard to vote for anyone when we don't know who is on the ballot. 

[SaintPaulWarrior]

It's hard to vote for anyone when we don't know who is on the ballot. 

He is on the Board. 

I also don't have a vote.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

As a current student I definitely agree with this. While he did try to stay connected with the students by sending out the fairly frequent emails, I got the feeling of disconnect as well because punishments for something like having a beer in your dorm room gets you a pretty hefty fine, at least for a college student. I also have a house that freshman just seem to congregate outside of (can't really do much about it, living on kilbourn), we don't throw parties, and DPS showed up and questioned us 4 nights in a row to the point where it seemed like we were being harassed. I guess that's why I don't really see Fr. Pilarz in all that good of a light, regardless of if he was the one in favor of such strict discipline policies.

I was in school from 06-10, and I remember there being a lot of rules, but I will say it sounds like from current students that things are much more strict now - and that there is an effort from MU to purge all alcohol from campus. Could there been a backlash from more old school alums on the BoT that went to MU in a more relaxed time?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

On students?  Rules, rules and more rules.  A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record.  Sneak in some beers...same.  Having RA's audit and ticket...same.  So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking.  Wonder who alerted the police?  The students do.  But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing?  I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults.  There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.

FFP was a typo I fixed....Freshman Frontier Program.  Great for these struggling freshman and first generation kids to assimilate into college or drop out before first fall semester.  It was one thing that made MU great in a lot of people's minds...mostly influential alums who were in it.  Related, although minor, the raising of JUCO standards for these kids.  

Now, you can say he was correct in some or all these calls in his role, but it was the way they were implemented with a mandate that irked various constituents.  And there are two or more sides to every story I know...but little things add up and take a life of their own.

The rules thing is tough for me.

I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).

With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).

Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.

So, while I understand the student's frustration and wanting to be left alone, I also understand the Administration's concern. Honestly, I think some communication about what the expectations are, and why the administration has put forth such rules could go a long way.

Between 1998-2002, I thought DPS did a really good job of keeping kids safe, but not necessarily "busting" people. My crew got to know several DPS officers, and we were always friendly with them. We understood their role, and we were generally respectful at 3am when they would stop by. They did a good job of saying "We are here for your safety, not to get you in trouble." I thought they were really good.

Now, some of the RA's and Hall Directors left a little to be desired, but it wasn't anything I couldn't work around.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I was in school from 06-10, and I remember there being a lot of rules, but I will say it sounds like from current students that things are much more strict now - and that there is an effort from MU to purge all alcohol from campus. Could there been a backlash from more old school alums on the BoT that went to MU in a more relaxed time?

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

[JuniorCardigan]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

If you're counting the bars way on the edge (like the Harp and Sham, maybe Conways) 5, but calling those on-campus is a bit of a stretch....but I definitely agree there need to be more.

[mu03eng]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

+a bajillion.

[Lennys Tap]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

Good point.

[GGGG]

The rules thing is tough for me.

I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).

With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).

Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.

Dr. Blackheart was specifically addressing why Pilarz was unpopular among students.  Putting more rules in place is going to do that.

And I really have to question if simply putting more rules in place is going to effectively address the "drinking problem" on campus.  As a parent of college aged kids, I would rather have drinking be legal and controlled.  Putting in more rules puts it further off campus and in more uncontrolled situations where binge drinking and potentially drunk driving becomes a bigger factor.  Kids aren't going to stop drinking because you tell them more sternly not to do so.

[swoopem]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

It's a good thing Pilarz closed down Hags and Blows then.

[GGGG]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

Oh hey, and I agree with this.  Controlled environments are 100 times better for the drinking issue.

[warriorchick]

You know, I know MU really wouldn't want to admit it, but there needs to be more bars on/around campus.

How many people on campus are 21+? 3000? 3500? And there are only 3 bars (including the Annex)?

At least at bars, it's a somewhat controlled environment. I'd venture to say that most alcohol poisoning and real issues happen at house parties... where nobody is monitoring who is drinking what, and there are no staff members involved.

Sobelman's  also serves alcohol.

If you don't think there are enough bars around campus, open one up.  I assume that no one else thinks they can make a go of it business-wise, or else they would have done it already.  Capitalism, baby.  Marquette controls most of the retail/commercial space around campus, but not all of it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

On students?  Rules, rules and more rules.  A couple of shot glasses in your dorm room...permanent record.  Sneak in some beers...same.  Having RA's audit and ticket...same.  So underage kids head over to Victor's and a hundred or so get busted for fake ID's and underage drinking.  Wonder who alerted the police?  The students do.  But the crack down moved the behavior to other more public places of a big city. Did the admin do the right thing?  I guess...but permanent records follow you now a days....just some examples of the iron hand...instead of treating 18-20 like adults.  There is a strong feeling of dislike as a result vs. Fr. Wild who they felt they could talk to at least. Not a positive sentiment.

FFP was a typo I fixed....Freshman Frontier Program.  Great for these struggling freshman and first generation kids to assimilate into college or drop out before first fall semester.  It was one thing that made MU great in a lot of people's minds...mostly influential alums who were in it.  Related, although minor, the raising of JUCO standards for these kids.  

Now, you can say he was correct in some or all these calls in his role, but it was the way they were implemented with a mandate that irked various constituents.  And there are two or more sides to every story I know...but little things add up and take a life of their own.

What's the counter argument to FFP?  Why would it have been changed?  To improve MU's image?  Raise standards?  Not accept as many at risk students? 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sobelman's  also serves alcohol.

If you don't think there are enough bars around campus, open one up.  I assume that no one else thinks they can make a go of it business-wise, or else they would have done it already.  Capitalism, baby.  Marquette controls most of the retail/commercial space around campus, but not all of it.

It's a fair point.

However, while I don't think MU is actively running bars off campus, they know that buying up all of the prime real estate allows them to control what is around.

But, not too hard to find SOMETHING that isn't MU owned... but it might not be a prime location, which is part of the problem.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The rules thing is tough for me.

I was in college (obviously), and we got away with our fair share of stuff. None of it was super dangerous, but a lot of it was stupid, somewhat unsafe, and alcohol fueled. I completely understand that kids need to be given some freedoms to make some mistakes, learn, and grow up (it's one of the beautiful things about a 4 year university).

With this said, I understand how/why the administration would want to crack down on potentially dangerous behavior (including excessive alcohol).

Parents and students pay a lot of money to go to MU, and like it or not, there is an expectation that MU monitor the kid's behavior. If a student has an unfortunate accident with alcohol, and it comes out that MU had some soft policies, MU is going to get ROASTED by some people... and I don't think MU can simply hide behind "Well, you're kids are adults, they make their own decisions." Parents aren't going to go for that.

So, while I understand the student's frustration and wanting to be left alone, I also understand the Administration's concern. Honestly, I think some communication about what the expectations are, and why the administration has put forth such rules could go a long way.

Between 1998-2002, I thought DPS did a really good job of keeping kids safe, but not necessarily "busting" people. My crew got to know several DPS officers, and we were always friendly with them. We understood their role, and we were generally respectful at 3am when they would stop by. They did a good job of saying "We are here for your safety, not to get you in trouble." I thought they were really good.

Now, some of the RA's and Hall Directors left a little to be desired, but it wasn't anything I couldn't work around.

I have some pals at MU and one thing they will tell you is the liability issue.  The drinking is going to happen on campus, but turning a blind eye to it in a university owned dorm is a problem for the school.  Whether that leads to rape\sexual assault, property damage, suicide, battery, etc.  So I get Blackheart's comments about the kids being miffed about the "iron hand", but the school also has an institution to run and they need to show they have the areas they own under control. The world is more litigious than ever. 

[Coleman]

You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.

[Pakuni]

I have some pals at MU and one thing they will tell you is the liability issue.  The drinking is going to happen on campus, but turning a blind eye to it in a university owned dorm is a problem for the school.  Whether that leads to rape\sexual assault, property damage, suicide, battery, etc.  So I get Blackheart's comments about the kids being miffed about the "iron hand", but the school also has an institution to run and they need to show they have the areas they own under control. The world is more litigious than ever. 

Correct. Much like the reason everyone's company probably makes you endure sexual harassment and diversity training, schools have to at least give the appearance that they don't condone underage drinking on campus because that serves as a legal defense.

[Lennys Tap]

You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.

Good spot, but off campus, no?

[humanlung]

Graduated MU in '89.  The list of bars included:

The Gym
Murphy's Law
The Ardmore
O'Ds
The 'Lanche
Heagarty's
State House
Greentree
O'Paget's
After Eight (a stretch , I know, but got to love trainee bartenders...)

That's ten and I know I am missing some.  We did stupid stuff but being in a controlled environment was something that kept us out of trouble.  I will always believe that.

[real chili 83]

An example of how times have changed....

On 10S in Schroeder, we snuck 8 kegs in on Saturday.  Got caught with them around midnight.

Next day, me and one other resident had to talk to the hall director, Flo.  Flo said, don't do it again.  End of story.

Times have changed...understandably so.

[Wally Schroeder]

You guys are all forgetting about the best campus bar, Jim's Time Out.

Fact, JTO's is where things get real. Pretty sure the fire code limit is 20 or 25 people though.

[Lennys Tap]

In 1970 the bars included:

Lenny's Tap
The Avalanche
The Ardmore
The Gym
Hegarty's
The Black Spider
Who's Inn

On the edge of campus, drink and live entertainment at the Holiday Inn on 20th and Wisconsin.

And:
Oh Johnny's
Stone Toad
Filling Station
Swinging Door
Crickets
Midget Bar
Fin n' Feather
Jim's Time Out
Ambassador
Eagles Club

Looking back, no wonder some of my friends took 8 years to graduate. Why leave until you have to?

[Dr. Blackheart]

I believe we had a thread here on the FFP.  He cut/redirected funding, scaled it back, was more selective.  Same with raising the the JUCO standards, beyond hoops.  Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success....two year at JC keeps down costs.  But, he wanted to get more selective while getting a MU grant is harder.

On alcohol, it wasn't the need for rules, it was the way they were enforced.  Some students are chiming in here...but I will let them explain.

Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with some of these, just explaining how sentiment builds.  Some of these are more minor to the news.

[only a warrior]

Don't forget about Bernie and Melba's!  Always a good time to hang with the townies!

Graduated MU in '89.  The list of bars included:

The Gym
Murphy's Law
The Ardmore
O'Ds
The 'Lanche
Heagarty's
State House
Greentree
O'Paget's
After Eight (a stretch , I know, but got to love trainee bartenders...)

That's ten and I know I am missing some.  We did stupid stuff but being in a controlled environment was something that kept us out of trouble.  I will always believe that.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I believe we had a thread here on the FFP.  He cut/redirected funding, scaled it back, was more selective.  Same with raising the the JUCO standards, beyond hoops.  Yet, private college for first generation kids is a huge family financial commitment...a FFP helps ensure success....two year at JC keeps down costs.  But, he wanted to get more selective while getting a MU grant is harder.

On alcohol, it wasn't the need for rules, it was the way they were enforced.  Some students are chiming in here...but I will let them explain.

Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with some of these, just explaining how sentiment builds.  Some of these are more minor to the news.

Yea, if I were a student, I would bitch too. I remember we used to complain about Bill Cords because we didn't like MU's schedule. 10 years later, with some more maturity, perspective, and insight, I was able to more accurately evaluate Bill Cords' performance.

Point is, as a student, it always felt like the admin. was somehow trying to limit our fun, and we thought they were terrible. This included the president, the hall director, the AD, the BOT, Mike Deane, etc. etc.

Looking back, I don't think they were that bad... it's just the nature of being a student. (at least it was for my group).  

Now, with all of this said, I don't know the specifics of Fr. Pilarz's role in rules or enforcement, so I can't accurately speak to any specifics in the past few years.

Honestly, it's a complex subject. You don't want to put students under lock and key, but you also don't want to turn a blind eye.