The Gold?

[MerrittsMustache]

Probably, especially in this PC world we live in.  I wouldn't be surprised that Cowboys will have to change some day...wouldn't want to offend any genders.  Chiefs will be on the list, even though the name has nothing to do with Indians.  I just found it interesting that 8 years ago this was supposed to be imminent? 

While the KC Chiefs were not technically named after Indian chiefs, they still use an arrowhead in their logo. Much like Marquette, the use of Native American imagery is what PCers will find off-putting, not the name itself.

[Coleman]

They missed a huge opportunity to just go back to "Hilltoppers" and hide behind "It's MU's original name"

It would be really hard to raise a big stink about that.

+1. I never understood why this was never even proposed or talked about. It seemed the obvious choice, and a pretty decent compromise for all sides.

[Coleman]

Probably, especially in this PC world we live in.  I wouldn't be surprised that Cowboys will have to change some day...wouldn't want to offend any genders.  Chiefs will be on the list, even though the name has nothing to do with Indians.  I just found it interesting that 8 years ago this was supposed to be imminent? 

You mean the Chefs?

[StillAWarrior]

Chiefs will be on the list, even though the name has nothing to do with Indians.

Huh?  That team with the arrowhead logo on its helmet that plays in Arrowhead Stadium?  I'm listening...

[MerrittsMustache]

Huh?  That team with the arrowhead logo on its helmet that plays in Arrowhead Stadium?  I'm listening...

I believe the team was named after the former KC mayor (Kansas governor?) whose nickname was The Chief. No, not Robert Parish.

[Pakuni]

Probably, especially in this PC world we live in.  I wouldn't be surprised that Cowboys will have to change some day...wouldn't want to offend any genders.  Chiefs will be on the list, even though the name has nothing to do with Indians.  I just found it interesting that 8 years ago this was supposed to be imminent? 

I don't think taking offense to Redskins is strictly a PC issue.
Unlike other nicknames like Warriors, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, Sioux, etc., Redskins is inarguably a slur.

Pretty sure nobody will ever rationally suggest a name change for the Cowboys.

[Lennys Tap]

Probably, especially in this PC world we live in.  I wouldn't be surprised that Cowboys will have to change some day...wouldn't want to offend any genders.  Chiefs will be on the list, even though the name has nothing to do with Indians.  I just found it interesting that 8 years ago this was supposed to be imminent? 

I'm as anti-pc as they come, but anyone who doesn't see REDSKINS as offensive is a caveman.

[Coleman]

I don't think taking offense to Redskins is strictly a PC issue.
Unlike other nicknames like Warriors, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, Sioux, etc., Redskins is inarguably a slur.

Pretty sure nobody will ever rationally suggest a name change for the Cowboys.

Agreed. Equating Redskins and Cowboys is pretty funny.

Redskins has to go, and it will. Not all native mascots are bad, when done right (see Florida State Seminoles)

Chiefs are probably fine, as are the Braves. Indians might be ok if they changed their logo, which is pretty offensive.

[Pakuni]

I believe the team was named after the former KC mayor (Kansas governor?) whose nickname was The Chief. No, not Robert Parish.

The Chiefs name was chosen through fan contest after the franchise moved to KC from Dallas (where they were known as the Texans).
The most popular submission was actually "Mules," but that was shot down by management, which chose Chiefs instead.

[StillAWarrior]

I believe the team was named after the former KC mayor (Kansas governor?) whose nickname was The Chief. No, not Robert Parish.

I'll admit to not knowing the history of this, but a quick bit of research indicates that the name was picked after a fan contest (in which numerous people suggested the Chiefs).  While sources do indicate that it was based on (or in honor of) the mayor's nickname, they also suggest that the nickname was related to his role in a Native-American themed organization.  In any event, the Chiefs have embraced the Native-American imagery over the years, so any connection with a non-Native-American origin is pretty much gone.  Some could argue that they are "inseparably linked."  

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that they need to change the name.  I was just questioning the claim that the name has nothing to do with Indians.

[MerrittsMustache]

The Chiefs name was chosen through fan contest after the franchise moved to KC from Dallas (where they were known as the Texans).
The most popular submission was actually "Mules," but that was shot down by management, which chose Chiefs instead.

From the Chiefs website:
In early '63, Hunt had taken scouting trips to cities such as Atlanta and Miami. Kansas City Mayor H. Roe Bartle learned of Hunt's interest in a new home for the Texans and extended an invitation for Hunt and Jack  Steadman to move the franchise to Mid-America. After the duo visited Kansas City on an incognito basis, an ambitious campaign took shape to deliver on Bartle's guarantee to Hunt of tripling the season-ticket base the Texans had enjoyed in Dallas. Kansas City's mayor, nicknamed "Chief," also promised to add 3,000 permanent seats to Municipal Stadium, as well as 11,000 temporary bleacher seats. Along with Bartle, a number of other prominent Kansas Citians stepped forward to aid in the efforts, putting together more than 1,000 workers to sell season tickets. On May 22nd, Hunt announced he was moving the franchise to Kansas City. Hunt and Stram initially planned on calling the relocated team the Kansas City Texans, but thanks to the insistence of Steadman, the team was officially christened the Chiefs on May 26th, in part to honor the efforts of Bartle.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/chiefs-history/1960s.html

[Pakuni]

From the Chiefs website:
In early '63, Hunt had taken scouting trips to cities such as Atlanta and Miami. Kansas City Mayor H. Roe Bartle learned of Hunt's interest in a new home for the Texans and extended an invitation for Hunt and Jacklenny the cool Steadman to move the franchise to Mid-America. After the duo visited Kansas City on an incognito basis, an ambitious campaign took shape to deliver on Bartle's guarantee to Hunt of tripling the season-ticket base the Texans had enjoyed in Dallas. Kansas City's mayor, nicknamed "Chief," also promised to add 3,000 permanent seats to Municipal Stadium, as well as 11,000 temporary bleacher seats. Along with Bartle, a number of other prominent Kansas Citians stepped forward to aid in the efforts, putting together more than 1,000 workers to sell season tickets. On May 22nd, Hunt announced he was moving the franchise to Kansas City. Hunt and Stram initially planned on calling the relocated team the Kansas City Texans, but thanks to the insistence of Steadman, the team was officially christened the Chiefs on May 26th, in part to honor the efforts of Bartle.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/chiefs-history/1960s.html

From the KC Star:

Only they couldn’t really be the Texans when they got here.

“Lamar and Hank, they wanted to call it the Kansas City Texans,” Steadman said, laughing and adding, “So finally I convinced Lamar that it wasn’t going to work, and we decided to have a naming contest.”

The “Rename the Dallas Texans Contest,” co-sponsored by The Star, drew 4,866 responses and 1,020 different nicknames from 21 states.

The Mules ruled, with 272 submissions, and “Royals” was second with 269.

There were, as it happened, 42 submissions of Chiefs, and the contest winner would prove to be Everett L. Diemler, who won a Plymouth Valiant by virtue of the tie breaker. His guess of 10,711 season tickets sold by May 1 was just 97 below the actual.

As for how the name truly was determined?

On an internal memo on May 16, 1963, perhaps an unofficial finalist list, Steadman sought staff input on 10 ideas: Chiefs, Drovers, Mokans, Mules, Pioneers, Plainsmen, Royals, Stars, Stockers and Texans.

In an attached handwritten note to Hunt that was among numerous items furnished for this story by Chiefs historian Bob Moore, Steadman wrote, “I figured since the staff would be responsible for selling and working with our new name, they should vote for it. No pressure applied.”

At least three of the seven he sent came back checked “Royals.”

But Steadman was steadfast.

“I told Lamar, ‘We’ve got to name this thing after Roe Bartle,’” said Steadman, noting the nickname the mayor had acquired through his dedicated work with the Boy Scouts and in politics. “We’ve got to name it ‘Chiefs.’”

And so they were named on May 26, 1963, just weeks before the move itself that was one of the few details Steadman didn’t seem to totally recall.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/15/4294969/fifty-years-ago-pro-football-moved.html#storylink=cpy

[StillAWarrior]

Hunt and Stram initially planned on calling the relocated team the Kansas City Texans, but thanks to the insistence of Steadman, the team was officially christened the Chiefs on May 26th, in part to honor the efforts of Bartle.

The "in part" thing suggests to me that they thought it was a good name, and it was an added bonus that the name was a nod to someone who was instrumental in bringing the team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

While the KC Chiefs were not technically named after Indian chiefs, they still use an arrowhead in their logo. Much like Marquette, the use of Native American imagery is what PCers will find off-putting, not the name itself.

Which is why going to a non Native American imagery is the answer.....ooops....no its not, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to not associate one with the other.  Blackhawks logo ok.  Chiefs arrowhead not ok?   The silliness just never ends.

Meanwhile, a number of Indian high schools on various reservations in this country use the name.....drum roll....Redskins.  Great story this weekend about that with a few interviews from those running those schools (who happen to support the Redskins name with Washington as well).   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Huh?  That team with the arrowhead logo on its helmet that plays in Arrowhead Stadium?  I'm listening...

The Chiefs were originally the Dallas Texans who moved to KC.  They got their name Chiefs from Kansas City Mayor, Harold Bartle.  Bartle was known as "The Chief" because of his scouting exploits in the Boy Scouts and founder of the Scouting Society.  He was the executive of the Boy Scouts for the KC area for 28 years.  They were going to keep the Texans name, but decided to honor Bartle with the name change.   names Mules and the Royals were the other options for names.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm as anti-pc as they come, but anyone who doesn't see REDSKINS as offensive is a caveman.

Apparently some of the Navajo and other tribes don't, as their high schools have that nickname.  Go figure. Are you calling them cavemen....is that offensive to cavemen?  Can we get a ruling on that?  




Some people find some things offensive, others do not.  That's not going to change.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't think taking offense to Redskins is strictly a PC issue.
Unlike other nicknames like Warriors, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, Sioux, etc., Redskins is inarguably a slur.

Pretty sure nobody will ever rationally suggest a name change for the Cowboys.

You know how many rational things have gone by the way side over the decades?  Or how many IRRATIONAL things are now entering the world today.  I could give you a head spinning list from the great land of Californiastan.  Our latest is the bathroom your kid gets to "choose" to attend.  Boys room for boys, girls room for girls....not so fast.  Nope.  Now my 11 year old daughter can have a boy in what used to be a place only girls could go.  Rational.....an abundance of it. 

Would it seriously surprise me that in 50 years nicknames that have gender identification are gone?  Absolutely not.  It is one of the reasons the Orangemen changed to the Orange and a number of high schools have made similar changes from anything that associates a specific gender.  Just a matter of time.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Meanwhile, a number of Indian high schools on various reservations in this country use the name.....drum roll....Redskins.  Great story this weekend about that with a few interviews from those running those schools (who happen to support the Redskins name with Washington as well).   

It's a completely different situation. Just as many consider it acceptable for African Americans to use the N-Word, Native Americans can call themselves Redskins as much as they want. White people using the word is offensive. And yes, you are going to find groups of natives in any group who say they don't have a problem with it, but there are more that will take issue.

Picture it this way instead. What would you say if a university that was predominately white decided to name their team the Spics? Or the Towelheads? Or the N*****s? I assume you wouldn't be okay with it. Why is it so different with Native Americans? Do they not deserve the same respect as other minority groups?

[Pakuni]

Which is why going to a non Native American imagery is the answer.....ooops....no its not, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to not associate one with the other.  Blackhawks logo ok.  Chiefs arrowhead not ok?   The silliness just never ends.

I don't see widespread objections to Chiefs or Blackhawks because .... they're not slurs. Can you not recognize the difference between those names and Redskins?

Meanwhile, a number of Indian high schools on various reservations in this country use the name.....drum roll....Redskins.  Great story this weekend about that with a few interviews from those running those schools (who happen to support the Redskins name with Washington as well).    

I once heard a black rapper use the 'N' word.
Therefore it's totally not a slur.

Here's a report with comments from one of three majority Indian schools nationwide that uses the Redskins name. Note that they believe that non-Indian entities should avoid using it.

“If you were to put this in an urban area where the population is basically white, unless there is a cultural connection, it would be inappropriate."

http://cnsmaryland.org/interactives/redskins-map/index.html

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Some people find some things offensive, others do not.  That's not going to change.   

Yes, but by that logic, nothing is offensive... which isn't true.

America doesn't need to cater to every special interest group out there... but we also cannot be afraid of evolution and change.

Some things that were ok in 1950, aren't ok in 2013.

[Pakuni]

You know how many rational things have gone by the way side over the decades?  Or how many IRRATIONAL things are now entering the world today.  I could give you a head spinning list from the great land of Californiastan.  Our latest is the bathroom your kid gets to "choose" to attend.  Boys room for boys, girls room for girls....not so fast.  Nope.  Now my 11 year old daughter can have a boy in what used to be a place only girls could go.  Rational.....an abundance of it. 

Chico's ...while I disagree with the ruling in the case you cite above, as you well know the circumstances there are not nearly as simple as you describe. The case in no way whatsoever says boys can randomly choose to use the girls bathroom, or vice versa.

[GGGG]

You know how many rational things have gone by the way side over the decades?  Or how many IRRATIONAL things are now entering the world today.  I could give you a head spinning list from the great land of Californiastan.  Our latest is the bathroom your kid gets to "choose" to attend.  Boys room for boys, girls room for girls....not so fast.  Nope.  Now my 11 year old daughter can have a boy in what used to be a place only girls could go.  Rational.....an abundance of it. 

Would it seriously surprise me that in 50 years nicknames that have gender identification are gone?  Absolutely not.  It is one of the reasons the Orangemen changed to the Orange and a number of high schools have made similar changes from anything that associates a specific gender.  Just a matter of time.

Oh here we go again.

Chicos is longing for the days where racists could be racist without suffering from public backlash.

[avid1010]

You know how many rational things have gone by the way side over the decades?  Or how many IRRATIONAL things are now entering the world today.  I could give you a head spinning list from the great land of Californiastan.  Our latest is the bathroom your kid gets to "choose" to attend.  Boys room for boys, girls room for girls....not so fast.  Nope.  Now my 11 year old daughter can have a boy in what used to be a place only girls could go.  Rational.....an abundance of it.  

Would it seriously surprise me that in 50 years nicknames that have gender identification are gone?  Absolutely not.  It is one of the reasons the Orangemen changed to the Orange and a number of high schools have made similar changes from anything that associates a specific gender.  Just a matter of time.

you ever look at all the completely irrational things on the other side of the spectrum, and think maybe there will always be extremists?

you make a case that we are oversensitive to racism, gender inequality, etc... yet a fox analyst goes on twitter last night and claims that liberal judges gave the miss usa crown to an indian woman rather than to someone that really embodies america like miss kansas.  

or how about the cops at the appleton, wi farmers market who are in trouble for drawing their weapons on two guys approaching the market with assault rifles, while in florida you can legally chase down and shoot an unarmed man...only to have people make hoodie jokes on basketball message boards.

or our sheriff in milwaukee serving up beer at concealed carry classes...with pictures in the journal sentinel.  

interesting you mention 50 years as a measuring stick...martin luther king gave his "i have a dream" speech 50 years ago, and i bet many people were commenting just as you are now.  i'd much rather over-correct than not make big enough corrections.  so if you don't like CA, move on down to AL and you'll likely feel right at home.  

i just don't understand your logic...unless you're saying extremism is bad...in which case you get a gold star.  or you simply point to extreme instances in order to provide a fear factor to promote opinions that would otherwise result in public backlash. 

[Lennys Tap]

Apparently some of the Navajo and other tribes don't, as their high schools have that nickname.  Go figure. Are you calling them cavemen....is that offensive to cavemen?  Can we get a ruling on that?  




Some people find some things offensive, others do not.  That's not going to change.  

Redskins was a slur even in the dark ages when I was growing up - an intentional one used in movies and TV back in the "good old days" to connote Native Americans as savages. I know you long for those days. I don't. The fact that "some people" are okay with it is meaningless. Some people are okay with virtually anything.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's a completely different situation. Just as many consider it acceptable for African Americans to use the N-Word, Native Americans can call themselves Redskins as much as they want. White people using the word is offensive. And yes, you are going to find groups of natives in any group who say they don't have a problem with it, but there are more that will take issue.

Picture it this way instead. What would you say if a university that was predominately white decided to name their team the Spics? Or the Towelheads? Or the N*****s? I assume you wouldn't be okay with it. Why is it so different with Native Americans? Do they not deserve the same respect as other minority groups?

I get it, trust me I get it.  And yes, there will be some that are offended and some that are not.  In terms of "how many"...we'll never know.  That's simply speculation.  There have been polls that suggest actually not many are offended, only to have the polls discredited.  In 2002, Sports Illustrated did such a poll and 75% of Native Americans had no problem with Redskins.  Guess what, that didn't sit well with some PC folks so they just discredit the poll until eventually you get a result they can live with.   In 2004, Anneburg did the same poll and found 91% of Native Americans surveyed in 48 states found the name Redskins acceptable.  Again, the poll was discredited.   

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/downloads/political_communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf

As for the second paragraph, someone tried that defense the other day....thankfully the judge said no dice.  http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/09/judge_n-word_illegal_at_work_--_even_if_youre_black.html