Hijack

[Dawson Rental]

Maybe he wants to play for a grandpa, hey?

If so, Miami would qualify.

[brewcity77]

A couple things...

1) Thanks coolcoachu3 for trying to get us back on topic

2) I don't really care one way or the other about this disagreement. Honestly, I haven't paid enough attention to even know what it's really about. Regardless, Chicos is right here...

This is correct and can be verified with Article 5.2 of Alford's contract:

5.2
There is reserved...

That comes directly from the contract...that's good, solid evidence.  I don't think it is B.S., lies or anything out of the ordinary to ask for similar evidence for the other contract.

Crean works for Indiana now, so shouldn't his contract be a matter of public record? If someone was motivated, wouldn't it be pretty easy to find, review, and post the pertinent details?

[GGGG]

Would I be incorrect if I came to the conclusion that you wrote the Late Nite Hoops piece and are the owner of Pleasant Avenue Athletics?   

I will note that this question has yet to be answered. 

Crean works for Indiana now, so shouldn't his contract be a matter of public record? If someone was motivated, wouldn't it be pretty easy to find, review, and post the pertinent details?

The original contract was released.  Not sure why the extension hasn't been. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

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Jeez.  I was going to say the only missing from this thread is spam and then it shows up!

[MUCrew]

I love you guys but please find another thread to argue. I keep checking for this to get back on topic, but it continues on. I'm looking forward to seeing where this kid goes and hopefully it's Marquette.

Blammers!!!

[slack00]

I keep reading more about Lammers too and he seems like a late riser and hard worker.  Almost fits the mold of the other bigs around MU lately.  In Buzz I trust. 

[Jay Bee]

That comes directly from the contract...that's good, solid evidence.  I don't think it is B.S., lies or anything out of the ordinary to ask for similar evidence for the other contract.  Not sure why you disagree. 

The Indiana / Crean information also comes directly from the contract. Just because Indiana may have told the public, "we'll release the contract publicly when it's available" doesn't mean they wouldn't "forget to".

Same source for both contracts - the actual, signed contracts, obtained from the respective universities. That's the source.

Perhaps when a relatively low-salaried journalism major (no offense) posts about it on a "bigger website", you'll be convinced. Or you could just check in with your pal who can confirm it for you.

[Pakuni]

The original contract was released.  Not sure why the extension hasn't been. 

Anyone here is free to file a Freedom of Information Act request for it.

[Jay Bee]

Anyone here is free to file a Freedom of Information Act request for it.

Unfortunately not quite true. Such records from public universities are generally subject to laws that vary state to state. Some have unreasonable requirements and rules surrounding them, but the point is that the state laws under which such records may be requested vary.

IU falls under the state's Access to Public Records Act. The school is actually very well ran with respect to responding to requests, which indicates the reason for continued misreporting of the Crean / IU contract may be due largely to laziness (i.e., the traditional media and the masses never followed up; it's far easier to take one person's story or comments from a school and re-publish information than it is to do real work).

[brewcity77]

The Indiana / Crean information also comes directly from the contract. Just because Indiana may have told the public, "we'll release the contract publicly when it's available" doesn't mean they wouldn't "forget to".

Same source for both contracts - the actual, signed contracts, obtained from the respective universities. That's the source.

Perhaps when a relatively low-salaried journalism major (no offense) posts about it on a "bigger website", you'll be convinced. Or you could just check in with your pal who can confirm it for you.

So I take it that's a "No" on the providing evidence request?

[Pakuni]

Unfortunately not quite true. Such records from public universities are generally subject to laws that vary state to state. Some have unreasonable requirements and rules surrounding them, but the point is that the state laws under which such records may be requested vary.

IU falls under the state's Access to Public Records Act. The school is actually very well ran with respect to responding to requests, which indicates the reason for continued misreporting of the Crean / IU contract may be due largely to laziness (i.e., the traditional media and the masses never followed up; it's far easier to take one person's story or comments from a school and re-publish information than it is to do real work).

Er ... so how as what I said "not quite true."
Is there some law preventing some here from filing a FOIA request for it?

Just fill out one of these:

http://www.nfoic.org/indiana-sample-foia-request

[Jay Bee]

Er ... so how as what I said "not quite true."

Because the request needs to be made under Indiana's APRA.

I realize that sounds like semantics, but it's more.

[Pakuni]

Because the request needs to be made under Indiana's APRA.

I realize that sounds like semantics, but it's more.

OK.
And what would prevent anyone here from making the request under Indiana's APRA (i.e. their FOIA)?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Can you all please create a thread for the crean contract argument? I'm not usually one to police these kind of sites, but this is the fourth or fifth (possibly more) thread that this has been brought up in. Frankly, most of us don't care and it distracts from what he threads are actually about.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Skatastrophy]

I think that the complaining about the bickering in this thread is about as annoying as the bickering.

You know that you don't *have* to hit the Post button, right guys?

[real chili 83]

In before the lock. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

I think the complaining about those that complain about the bickering is distracting BUT post count is post count

[Jay Bee]

OK.
And what would prevent anyone here from making the request under Indiana's APRA (i.e. their FOIA)?

Not a thing. As Chicos has said about a million times, obtaining the contract isn't difficult (but he's also claimed the contract isn't final and has alleged criminal misdeeds, stating he might tell IU's AD about it!!).

Yet he wants to get the contract from ME, when I've already told him the information is from the contract. I could send him a copy, but he won't believe it (plus, by policy I don't share contracts with individuals who "just want to see it").

In the end, Chicos will likely admit that LNH was right all along and still have no comment or response to the original question. In addition, he'll temper his "that would be stupid of IU" remarks.

[Skatastrophy]

I think the complaining about those that complain about the bickering is distracting BUT post count is post count

I'm trying to keep my numbers up!
ibtl

[Benny B]

Not a thing. As Chicos has said about a million times, obtaining the contract isn't difficult (but he's also claimed the contract isn't final and has alleged criminal misdeeds, stating he might tell IU's AD about it!!).

Yet he wants to get the contract from ME, when I've already told him the information is from the contract. I could send him a copy, but he won't believe it (plus, by policy I don't share contracts with individuals who "just want to see it").

In the end, Chicos will likely admit that LNH was right all along and still have no comment or response to the original question. In addition, he'll temper his "that would be stupid of IU" remarks.

So wait a second, I'm lost... Finkle is Einhorn?

[The Equalizer]

Not a thing. As Chicos has said about a million times, obtaining the contract isn't difficult (but he's also claimed the contract isn't final and has alleged criminal misdeeds, stating he might tell IU's AD about it!!).

Yet he wants to get the contract from ME, when I've already told him the information is from the contract. I could send him a copy, but he won't believe it (plus, by policy I don't share contracts with individuals who "just want to see it").

In the end, Chicos will likely admit that LNH was right all along and still have no comment or response to the original question. In addition, he'll temper his "that would be stupid of IU" remarks.

So let me get this straight.

You've obtained the publicly available IU/Crean contract--but you won't share it because "by policy" you won't share a publicly available document? 
 
Lets face it, you could have put this issue to rest weeks ago and prove yourself correct simply by posting the publicly available document you claim to have already have obtained.

So why don't end this already by posting your own damn proof. 

That is, if you really have it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not a thing. As Chicos has said about a million times, obtaining the contract isn't difficult (but he's also claimed the contract isn't final and has alleged criminal misdeeds, stating he might tell IU's AD about it!!).

Yet he wants to get the contract from ME, when I've already told him the information is from the contract. I could send him a copy, but he won't believe it (plus, by policy I don't share contracts with individuals who "just want to see it").

In the end, Chicos will likely admit that LNH was right all along and still have no comment or response to the original question. In addition, he'll temper his "that would be stupid of IU" remarks.

I'll believe it...why wouldn't I believe it?  Just send me the PDF. I've said all along, you may be right...just provide the evidence.  That's all I've asked for from day one....really not that hard.  I have no problem admitting LNH is right if they are right, something I've also said on this subject probably 4 or 5 times.  Nothing has changed.

Again, I'm not the one making the claims...you are.  I'd be more than happy to see the contract that you provide.  Otherwise, I'll wait until it comes out and hits the public domain from a reporter, etc. 

I believe I have answered your original question...just go back and read the answer....again, not sure why you are making this so hard.

[Jay Bee]

So why don't end this already by posting your own damn proof.  

The portion of the contract I had a question on re: Chicos' thoughts has already been detailed out. Very often contracts are misinterpreted by people who read them, especially "those in the industry" as Chicos likes to say. Would a guy like you or Chicos be able to read it? I'm not convinced on that.

But, how soon would the "how do I know this is real?" questions come? Anyone can make a PDF, right? So either you're going to believe me or you're not. You've already decided against it, so you'll need to find your proof elsewhere.

In addition, the truth usually prevails and will in this case. Chicos will stay off topic when he finally realizes I've been correct all this time and indeed LNH had it right while the masses were way off for a long, long period of time.

This isn't about me having good information or being correct, though. This is about Chicos naive comments on the UCLA / Alford contract and the question on what his comments/thoughts are on the massive non-mirrored buyout provisions in the Indiana / Crean contract.

Chicos chooses to trust folks with no background in finance or law, whose job it is generally to regurgitate information received from others. At the same time, he refuses to trust me. That's fine, albeit stupid. His choice.

Again, his tone has started to change and it will ultimately change.. from "Indiana would be stupid to have done that" and "oh yeah a little microblog has it right and all the big names are wrong.. yeah right there is no way that happened (AGAIN)"... to "oh it's no big deal. Not stupid, not a big deal. Also, it's cool for Indiana."

[ChicosBailBonds]

The portion of the contract I had a question on re: Chicos' thoughts has already been detailed out. Very often contracts are misinterpreted by people who read them, especially "those in the industry" as Chicos likes to say. Would a guy like you or Chicos be able to read it? I'm not convinced on that.

But, how soon would the "how do I know this is real?" questions come? Anyone can make a PDF, right? So either you're going to believe me or you're not. You've already decided against it, so you'll need to find your proof elsewhere.

In addition, the truth usually prevails and will in this case. Chicos will stay off topic when he finally realizes I've been correct all this time and indeed LNH had it right while the masses were way off for a long, long period of time.

This isn't about me having good information or being correct, though. This is about Chicos naive comments on the UCLA / Alford contract and the question on what his comments/thoughts are on the massive non-mirrored buyout provisions in the Indiana / Crean contract.

Chicos chooses to trust folks with no background in finance or law, whose job it is generally to regurgitate information received from others. At the same time, he refuses to trust me. That's fine, albeit stupid. His choice.

Again, his tone has started to change and it will ultimately change.. from "Indiana would be stupid to have done that" and "oh yeah a little microblog has it right and all the big names are wrong.. yeah right there is no way that happened (AGAIN)"... to "oh it's no big deal. Not stupid, not a big deal. Also, it's cool for Indiana."

   I'm quite sure I would be able to read it, I go through billion dollar contracts for a living.  As well as much lower level ones, often including athletes, coaches, actors, leagues, movie studios, etc.  Throw me a bone here. 

My comments on UCLA and Alford were not naive.  You may not have liked them, you may disagree with them, but they certainly were not naive.  Nor were the comments made by the reporters on the subject.  No one said the numbers in the Alford contract were wrong.  NO ONE.  What we ALL said was it was unnecessary for a school like UCLA to do this...to have a buyout at that level.  That was our opinion.  That is all it was.  You may not like that opinion.  You're arguing that these reporters somehow got their facts wrong on that subject, but I'd like to see where they did.  Those reporters, and myself, were not arguing the facts of the Alford contract, we were arguing why UCLA did it to begin with.  Again, why are you making this so hard.  What did I or anyone else say that was factually wrong about the Alford contract?  I'd love to know.   I really would.

[Jay Bee]

 I'm quite sure I would be able to read it, I go through billion dollar contracts for a living.  As well as much lower level ones, often including athletes, coaches, actors, leagues, movie studios, etc.  Throw me a bone here.  

My comments on UCLA and Alford were not naive.  You may not have liked them, you may disagree with them, but they certainly were not naive.  Nor were the comments made by the reporters on the subject.  No one said the numbers in the Alford contract were wrong.  NO ONE.  What we ALL said was it was unnecessary for a school like UCLA to do this...to have a buyout at that level.  That was our opinion.  That is all it was.  You may not like that opinion.  You're arguing that these reporters somehow got their facts wrong on that subject, but I'd like to see where they did.  Those reporters, and myself, were not arguing the facts of the Alford contract, we were arguing why UCLA did it to begin with.  Again, why are you making this so hard.  What did I or anyone else say that was factually wrong about the Alford contract?  I'd love to know.   I really would.

No, no. I said the masses often get contracts wrong. I didn't say they got the UCLA / Alford contract wrong. I said your thoughts and opinions on that contract were naive.

UCLA's contract with Ben Howland? Oh yes, the masses definitely had that one wrong. LNH had it right.

Tubby Smith's buyout with Minnesota. Yep, masses wrong, LNH correct.

You can double-check the history if you're so inclined.

Now, why would you believe a PDF that I send over to you, but not an article I point you to? I have told you I have read the contract and the article I pointed you to is in agreement with the contract.

What do you think of those terms between Crean and Indiana? Obviously some numbers that are "unusually high" as those "in the industry" and you would say. Does the $16MM strike you as quite high? Was Crean afraid of being fired if 2012-13 didn't work out well? Was Indiana afraid of him walking if they didn't give into his demands?

Or maybe they made a mistake by announcing an extension prior to its finalization (a very common error made by schools)... and then Crean shrewdly made them pay.

What are your thoughts? Where is he off to? Is there a school tied with Indiana as the absolute pinnacle" in college basketball?

If you acknowledge, now, that my information "might be" good, then why not humor me with your thoughts... as though you had more 'proof'?